MarlyStar Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I'd love to see a woman in Roman times refuse to marry a man because of his height or because he's bald. Women in Roman times were extremely scarce. They had a lot of financial rights against their husbands, fathers and brothers, it was so expensive to raise a female and especially to pay someone to marry her that it was legal and common to kill girl babies at birth. So common in fact, that a law had to be passed that the first girl baby in any family had to be allowed to live. Men had sex with slaves, and of course, the slave women had no say in the matter. But there was no marriage.
MarlyStar Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 ...and that's why more and more women are being diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. It's about power, power, power!!! Actually far, far more men than women are diagnosed with NPD, women are more likely to be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. 2
todreaminblue Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I have always wondered this. This really confuses me. Somebody please enlighten me on this. In the USA, there is roughly the same number of men and women (am I right on that much?). So it would seem to me, that the number of men seeking women, and the number of women seeking men, would be roughly the same amount of people (roughly - I mean, 50 / 50, not like 20 / 80 ). If that is the case (if there is pretty much the same number of single men out there as there are single women) - aren't the odds of finding a mate the same for both sexes? I know, in online dating, men say that women have all the power. But, how is that true, just going by the numbers? Even if some of the women don't respond to the men who send them an email to say hello via online dating - don't the women have to eventually respond to some of the men? Or else, they would be single women forever? Let's say the really good looking, tall guys making big money, get lots of women responding to them. And then the marry one of the hundred chicks who sent them an email. Where do the other 99 women go? What I am saying it, doesn't it all balance out eventually? How could it be that only the handsome, tall, wealthy men could get women? What would happen to all the other women? They don't just go live in a cave. They are still out there, dating, right? So, doesn't it stand to reason that there are equal amounts of single men and women out there available for dating? Even, perhaps, equal amounts of both men and women who drop out of the dating scene entirely, and just live out life alone? How is it that women have all the power in dating? If there were crowds of women chasing the tall, handsome, rich guys, and the rich guys marry one, and then the crowd of women moves to the next rich guy, eventually, wouldn't the women get tired of pursueing the tall, handsome, rich guys, and either drop out of dating, or settle for an average guy? I know this sounds silly. I just don't understand, theoretically, and going by the sheer numbers of singles alone, how women could have so much more power over men, in the dating scene. Here's one other anecdote. My ex husband is online dating. He is fairly short (5'8"), not rich (blue collar), and not particularly handsome (he's 45, he's ok looking, maybe above-average for the men online at his age, he is not very overweight, maybe 20 pounds or so, he is in fairly decent shape, and somewhat above average looking, blond, blue eyes, but not drop dead gorgeous). He is not a particularly great conversationalist, and his profile is just run of the mill, nothing special. So having said that, I happen to know he has lots of women that he is going out on dates with, LOTS. They are average to above average looking, and around his age. So why are there so many guys around here that say you must be tall, handsome and rich to get dates online? I don't get this at all. And, my ex-husband seems to prove otherwise, from his experience. Does anyone have any input on this 'balance of power' in the dating scene? This is an honest question. Thanks!! I tend to think, I dont like the dating scene...tried the online dating thing got sent a slide show of penises to donate to youtube and requests for skype and video chat.....i got slammed by instant pop up windows when i tried to write emails to men who didnt send pictures of penises which would make writing emails difficult for me so i gave up.....i have always been a joiner so i am going to join a few groups that i am passionate about and meet friends and go from there i think.....online dating isn't my scene i feel.....i think there is opportunity to have success in online dating for both men and women....i dont go looking for the good looking penises i mean men.... i answered emails based on profiles that they filled out that they had read my profile and then wrote me an obviously unique letter with a smidgen of humor..... i could tell the cut and pasters who did generic.....and its a nah...i only replied to someone who was interested in getting to know me not just looking for a date. i do think dating in any form goes on looks and then an interesting profile/personality because it is what draws your eye and interest in the first place including internet dating and thats me being honest....i would hope its fairly even between men and women with pulling dates......best wishes.......deb 1
todreaminblue Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I sometimes hope I wake up capable of unassisted flight, sadly that hasn't happened yet either. lol ....that positive huh..but i actually have done the unassisted flight thing a pin drop from a helicopter....some one would call it falling from a helicoptor in style i call it unassisted flight..but then i think buzz lightyear is cool...so dont give up hope yet you may just get your unassisted flight........deb 1
MarlyStar Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 I really think age makes all the difference. Generally men pair up with with women a couple years younger and vice versa. So a 23 year old man has a pool of women between about 18-25, optimally around 20-23. Not too many years. He's got a bunch of strikes against him. Probably he's out of school, whereas half his dating pool still is in school, making it a bit harder for him to meet them. They aren't in the vincinity. In the work world, he's on the bottom rung, just starting out, lacking much status. He's probably also more immature and unsophisticated than 23 year old girls. It just takes longer for males to mature. Altho 23 year old girls don't have it all together either; lots are still in the knight on a white horse sweeping the princess off to happily ever after phase. So for ten 23 year old men and women it looks more like this: 10 men: 1 gay, 1 addicted to drugs/alcohol, 1 in jail, 1 floundering in school, 1 low man on the totem pole at work, 1 physically unattractive/obese, 2 a good catch who can get the girls they want, 2 others. 10 women: 1 addicted, 2 chubby but cute, 1 just physically unattractive, 1 totally flaky and self absorbed but able to get away with it, 1 dating a married man, 4 in the cat bird position able to get their choice of men between the ages of 25-35. (the flake can usually get her choice too, don't know why; but I guess it's the male equivalent of females going after bad boys; men inexplicably fall for flakes). This means the two ordinary 23 year old guys are pretty much stuck with 2 chubby but cute girls, who quite often they don't want or just use as place fillers until they can get the women they really want. Women have a distinct advantage. OLD sucks for men. Viable women don't go there, they don't need to. And the women who do are deluged with interest. Now look at 28 year olds: Things change. Men are just starting to come into their own. They've finished school, have some status/recognition at work, have a car and their own place and some spending money. They look more like men and less like Justin Bieber. They've acquired some maturity and sophistication. They've acquired a girlfriend or two and have or are in a long term relationship. If they are unattached they want to flex their wings and play. They are looking for women between 22-30, but mostly between 22-26 optimally. Those 23 year old women mentioned above are interested, picky but interested. Whereas the 23 year old women doesn't even notice the 23 year old guy, the 23 year old woman is evaluating the 28 year old man. If he can show her a good time he's got a good chance. 28 year old women have played, they are really ready to settle down and start families. Their friends are getting married. They've had a couple of LTR and got burned. They did the bad boy relationship and got burned. They are looking for a committed, stable, financially promising man between 29-36. Men in the 32-36 age range are starting to want to settle down, so these women have a good chance of getting what they want too. At this age I think things are pretty even all things considered IRL. OLD still favors women. Most women can find a guy without it, and men who have their act together don't need it either. What you end up with is the people who don't have their acts together: mostly the socially awkward, the ones falling behind their peers in meeting adulthood milestones. But women are usually very pretty and it matters less for them, so they come out ahead. Fast forward to age 38. Men have the edge. They are hitting their stride. They've acquired status in the work place, money, nice things, sophistication, and they have really come into their looks. If they are divorced and have children, most of the time the children live primarily with their ex and aren't a hindrance to their romantic life (altho there is a small group of women who won't date a man with any children). They are looking at women in the age range of about 26-36. There's a lot of unmarried women there and most are attractive, the chubby girls have gotten the message and have slimmed down. In the 38 year old man's targeted age group, 10 women will look like this: 1 unattractive/undateable, 1 chasing a married man, 1 self absorbed princess, 2 over burdened with kids, no money and a problem ex (ie, too much baggage), 5 excellent prospects who think he's tops. Men aren't initially turned off by princesses altho they won't generally marry them, so he has 6 great dating prospects. A 38 year old woman has a whole different set of problems. If she's a single mother, she's likely struggling with her weight (kids cause weight gain), her career (probably took time off for her kids, her time (sitters, kids sick, family activities, etc...), drama with her ex, custody, child support, new wife, new kids, etc..., and probably is always short of money. She's often not viewed as a prize on the dating scene and is overlooked and when she's not, she often doesn't have a lot to offer since she's barely keeping her head above water. She's learned the hard way about bad boys: addicts, anger management problems, cheaters, liars, mommas boys. To top quality men, she's invisible. To ordinary nice decent guys, she's got baggage and they are more likely to gravitate to those baggage-free 26-36 year old women mentioned above. A lot of these women are bitter or desperate (both which cause men to flee). Her dating prospects are grim. To the never married no-kid 38 year old woman, she has it a bit better. She's looking in the 40-48 year old age group for men. She's focused on her career and has assets and income and status--and she wants the same. He's got to make pretty much what she makes (which is fair) or more. She probably wants kids, but her age group has a lot of men who already had their kids and don't want more. And she's probably got a fairly rigid set of standards about what she wants--this age group is the most likely to have 'lists' of mandates. He has to be this and have that and do this for her... She's a woman who has had a lot of experience with men, a lot of disappointment and knows what she wants and won't settle for less. She's probably in great shape, attractive, sexy, dresses well and is sophisticated and intelligent. For her 10 men in her targeted age group look like this. 1 gay 2 addicted 1 social reject (mentally ill, in jail, anger management problems) 1 obese/unattractive/gross (the older men get the grosser they get, so many men do not understand basic hygiene or just let it go) 2 without the right college education, job, level of sophistication (has no life except middle management and watching sports), income 1 Who absolutely will not have children which she wants or have decided that they will never marry again because they got reamed in the divorce. 2 good prospects. So while a 38 year old man has 6 excellent prospects, a 38 year old will have 2, maybe three if she lowers her standards or chooses not to have children. OLD there starts to be equal amounts of men and women and while there are players of both genders (or neurotics or socially behind), this is the age group that seems to have the most success finding partners. Jump ahead 10 years. Men have the clear advantage. 48 year old men look good, have money and can be picky. Their divorce, custody and child support issues if any have been resolved and usually their kids are almost adults and the ex's have remarried, moved on or just faded away. They earn a lot, have the house, car, vacations, extra money. They look good, although some are starting to let themselves go. They have a lot of experience with women and get pretty picky. A lot resolve never to marry again, just to sample and play. Women are plentiful in their age range of about 32-45, and many look good and have great sexual experience. They don't have to work on themselves. If they have personality problems, are jerks, addicted to something, have anger management problems, they know how to hide it long enough to hook a woman--and then it's her problem. She doesn't get with the program...next. The ones without social problems do have to watch for neurotic women. Women in the late 30's and 40's start to be hampered by their personality problems. The drinking gets out of control, the bitterness, anger and dislike of men starts to show, or the neediness/desperation, the feeling that this is their last chance, the shallowness they've never over come rebounds on them, etc... But by this time, it's easy for men to recognize these characteristics and they just move on. Most women tho in the targeted age group try hard to please IF they have figured out the guy is not a loser. If you are a loser (unemployed, bankrupt, addicted, criminal history, live with mommy, low income no status job) you are going to have a lot of trouble. Women 40+ are onto you. Many have figured out their finances either through their own careers, divorce settlements or inheritances from their family. Most won't date anyone who makes less than they. So if you make $300,000 a year, you have lots of options. If you make $30,000 you have few. For the non-loser 48 year old man, 10 single women in his targeted age group looks like this: 2 unattractive/obese/pudgy, short hair/let herself go 1 strange, neurotic, demanding, needy, desperate, angry 2 struggling with kids, no money, crazy ex's, no time, lots of drama baggage 5 great women (and since his targeted age range is so loose, this 50% might actually generate higher real numbers than the 38 year olds 60%) OLD can often be a great place for these men to find women. But for a 48 year old woman it's not quite so good. She's looking at an age group of about 47-54. Men over 54 just...look so...old. Like their fathers. If she's let herself go or is fat, she's pretty much out of the game. Many still have the same child rearing/divorce/nasty ex problems that 38 year old women often have--although since their children are older, it's often not so hard. They have more time and freedom to date. The 48 year old woman has a dating pool in her target group that looks like this: 1 gay 2 addicted/alcoholic 2 social rejects, criminal past, losers, etc... 1 strange, disturbing sexual interests 1 unattractive/gross 1 turned off by her baggage or who has his own baggage and is angry and bitter at all women and going to take it out on her 1 who just doesn't make enough 1 who's a great catch but the competition for a great catch in his very early 50s is rough. So a 48 year old woman is essentially often in the same place a 23 year old guy is in. There's just no one out there. But a 48 year old man is like the 24 year old woman--in the cat bird seat. A woman has to settle for less, be the lucky one to get the great catch, work through her and/or her man's baggage, or expand her targeted age group and become a cougar (which is humiliating for a lot of women, they just don't want younger men and it seldom leads to LTR) or start dating men who look a lot older than them (which often works out well). Now go to 56. Things change DRASTICALLY. Somewhere in their 50s men lose their looks. It's different for everyone and depends on lifestyle and genes and effort. They get bags under their eyes, their faces melt into their necks, that belly can't be disguised under taylored sports jacket any more. Their knees are going, their erections are going, their hair is almost gone their prostate swells, they have high blood pressure (are there any men in their late 50s who don't?). They have a buddy who suddenly dies. And women they are attracted to think they are old. Too old. 45 year old women do not want 58 year old men. 58 year old men do not want 55 year old women. The attractive 51 and 52 year old women want 54 year old men in good shape. Something else happens in the 50's: women drop out of the game, they don't want to be bothered with men any more. Back when they were 48 and too unattractive to get men or when they hit their early 50s and went through menopause they lost interest. A survey was done of 5,000 55 year olds and the question asked was: Would you care if you never had sex again? 1 out of 5 women said they wouldn't care. One out of 50 men said they wouldn't care. A lot of women in their 50s just drop out. Their finances have stablized and they aren't all that interested in sex. Their emotional and social needs are met through friends, family, children and grandchildren. They have time to put into jobs and hobbies and it's often a renaissance period for women. They will no longer put up with abuse, drinking, boring men who just watch tv and want to stay at home, and baggage. They don't care if they are attractive to men, they go for comfort. It reduces the dating pool for men in their late 50's considerably. A 23 year old will date a man 10 years older. A 33 year old will too. But a 48 year old woman is leery of a 58 year old man. He looks so...old. He has health problems, she doesn't want to be a nurse. She doesn't need his money and he's not really a good companion, opinionated about stupid things or set in his ways or dull, dull, dull. A 48 year old is still fertile and most are interested in sex. And a lot of 56 year old men have problems there. For the most part everyone's kids are grown and problems with ex's are gone. By the late fifties men accept they will have to choose among their age group, within about 5 years of their age. And a lot are all right with that. They did the bimbo thing and it didn't work out. 10-15 year age gaps have a lot of problems, and people in their 50s are tired, tired, tired of problems. Men are looking at retirement and getting worried. They want someone. A lot of them aren't as close to their children as they wish; their friends and siblings are married and busy--and a lot of those marriages are happy or at least contented and worked out. They are seeing physical limitations beginning to curb their activities, no more skiing, no more hiking, etc.d.. they are relegated to the golf course or can that day coming. They also see the day coming when the house might be empty--all the time. Most men are not okay with that. Men in their middle and late fifties for the first time since their early 20s seem to be more than happy to pair up with women who are older than them. As their health falters, they are more forgiving of women's looks, thick waist are acceptable (altho obesity is not). They want pleasant companionship. Women in their mid to late fifties are willing to pair up with men younger than them--the desire NOT to be a nurse is very strong. Midlife crisis doesn't really come in the 40's (maybe it used to but not any more). It comes in the mid to late 50s. The dating pool starts looking like this: For men: 2 women have dropped out of the game, they don't want men 2 women are just unattractive and don't care 2 women are bossy know it alls who want to manage their lives or are neurotic drama queens who can't get along 1 rejects you for health problems 1 is out of your league, is attractive, and can get a man in his early 50's who looks really good. 1 is nice but the personality is too different: they want to travel, you don't; you want to RV, they don't; they are a homebody housewife type (very nice), but you want more intellectual stimulation. People this age are just too old to change much and compromise. No hard feelings, but no match. 1 good prospect For women who are still in the game: 2 too many health problems 2 addicted to something or impoverished 2 gross/unattractive/obese 1 unpleasant (men seem to become more opinionated and demanding as they are or more needy) 1 nice but personality too different: the homebody vs travel problem, the dullard sitting infront of the tv watching sports 2 good prospects. In the 50s women have the edge because so many are happy not having a man in their lives, and so many men really do want a woman, not just for sex but they want the companionship. They don't want to be alone, whereas women have fewer worries about being alone. I don't know much about dating in the sixties except from what I hear from my mother, the problem of widows and widowers emerges. You get a fresh crop of single men whose wives died and they were happily married and like being married. Whereas a lot of women who lose their husbands t and just aren't interested in marrying again. They don't want to be a nurse (again), they like the freedom after 40 years of marriage, their kids are uncomfortable with them dating. So I understand women have a big edge in the 60s. However, I understand it flips again in the 70's, men have the edge because there are just so few of them. But if you are a guy in your 20s, just wait--it gets better. If you are a woman in your 40s, just wait--it gets better. And of course this is all widely variable depending on your own personal situation, health, looks, finances, good and bad luck etc... 3
Sanman Posted July 15, 2012 Posted July 15, 2012 Marlystar, Interesting post. I would say that rather than 48 though, I think men have it best around 38-45. Thirties is when a lot women are really pushing for families men have their pick of women 29 and up. This reminds me of Lori Gottlieb and her book/ Atlantic article that often get brought up here.
Author Forever Learning Posted July 15, 2012 Author Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) Holy Smokes!!!!! AMAZING POST MarlyStar!!! Gee Whillikers, THANK YOU for the effort you put into all that insight!! I am flabberghasted with amazement!! Awesome!! I will have to read it again in a bit. Too much info to process all at once. Well done! Of course, some of what you wrote COULD get me a bit depressed..... ..... thinking somehow that maybe my options are limited at my age, 43, with two young children in tow..... But rather than feel depressed about my options out there at age 43 with two boys aged 5 and 8, I feel all the better!!!! Because things are a bit different for me in particular. Not sure why it is, but I have a good feeling about meeting someone special and awesome in the future. I think it is my positive attitude. Everyone tends to like me, and I am good looking and in good shape. And I don't have any real lofty requirements for the man I am looking for, only that he be kind, honest, have a job he enjoys, and that we are compatible on some level. Seems to me, the world is my oyster!! Even if I were never to meet a man to marry, and lived the remainder of my life alone, I think I would still manage to be happy and have fun. I've done that for quite a while now as it is, even when I was married for 16 years, I was quite alone at the time. Being happy whilst being single, is the foundation and key to it all, in my opinion. Meeting someone to share it with, makes life even better. A great philosophy to have in life. Winning, as Charlie Sheen would say. I actually like Charlie Sheen, believe it or not. Cheers love!! And thank you once more for the great information!! Edited July 15, 2012 by Forever Learning 1
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