Romantic gestures down the LTR road.. or lack thereof

[zengirl]

Now, there are a million things wrong with this entire shenanigan, and I know this sounds bad, but what struck me and resounded the most from the conversation was the fact that I have never had a guy lavish me with such giddy little romantic gestures. And it's something that I realize with alarming frequency that deep within me, I wish to have, at least once.

 

I get it, and I know that me saying, "But all that stuff really gets old quick" wouldn't help because the whole thing is you want to experience it. Honestly, everyone should at some point, maybe. I don't know. I love practical gifts. Much better than flowers that die, or diamonds that are for everyone, or whatever. I've dated men who gave copious but generic gifts, with grand romantic gestures, that made me feel empty, so it's easy for me to say, right? That's what people who say, "That stuff doesn't matter" miss is that they usually only know it doesn't matter because they've experienced it.

 

At any rate, it doesn't seem like you're asking for a total romantic overhaul. Just one big romantic gesture. Or even a medium-sized one, really.

 

IIRC, you and your boyfriend have a fairly open sex life, where I imagine you discuss your sexual fantasies (I assume since you employ toys and whatnot) and feel comfortable discussing those. Why not take a similar approach to discuss your romantic fantasies and see if he gets it? I don't think such fantasies are really all that different from the things we'd like to "try" sexually. You don't really want your BF to change per se. You'd just like to experience something new and have him try a little something. Asking it in a fantasy-charged way could make it more fun for both of you, feeling less like an obligation and puffing him up a bit more --- what guy who likes to please his partner (and your BF strikes me as someone who wants to make you happy and is a good partner) wouldn't want to make his love's romantic fantasy come true and feel like a big hero? Even if he doesn't get the importance, maybe he would get that. The trick is for him to get the ego boost --- which is why men do these things, really --- from it, despite it not being his personality to gesture in this way.

 

You've gotten some other good advice I could echo, but this was the only new thing I could think of.

[16thstreet]

Great advice, and you have a very good point there. I think I will just continue to give in the way that he likes, and as for the flowers, I'll bring it up once, and let the cards fall where they may. Probably closer to my birthday/next Valentine's so that there is a good 'excuse' to give them if he feels shy about it? Heh.

 

A few thoughts:

 

To address the issue that you don't want to talk about this issue with your BF because you want it to be more of a spontaneous thing rather than he is following a command, you might want to consider having the conversation NOW rather than closer to your birthday or Valentine's Day. Make it a sit down, serious conversation. The kind a guy will remember. Tell him that there is something serious that you really need to discuss. Tell him that you are absolutely happy and love him, but that there is something that is missing for you. Tell him that although it might seem a little silly to him, it is actually REALLY important to you that he do things romantic and spontaneous once in a while on his own. You can even tell him that you don't exactly understand why this is so important to you, but that that the truth is that it simply is important and that's that. If he's a "guy-guy" it won't be important for him to understand the why anyway. Tell him that this conversation doesn't mean that you want him to march out there and buy you a gorgeous bouquet or nice chocolates tomorrow or even next week and tell him that would actually be counterproductive because it would feel like he is just placating you due to this very recent discussion. But tell him that it does mean that you want him to think about doing that at some time that would be appropriate such as, ahem, Valentine's Day "for instance". Tell him that you appreciate that he is so practical and thoughtful in that regard, but that sometimes you crave a little bit of the impractical and that it is normal for women to feel this way.

 

I essentially had the above conversation with my H while we were dating, probably about 2 years into dating. His response was "well, why didn't you tell me sooner?" and (as usual with these kind of discussions between us) "you know I can't read your mind, so if you have an expectation you have to communicate it to me." Since that time I've received a few wonderful flower arrangements, but usually he is more "practical" and buys smaller inexpensive flowers while he's out and about from time to time. I always tell him how much I love the flowers (yep, make a big deal out of it, like your idea re the stuffed animal), give him a huge hug and tender kiss and look in his eyes when I tell him thank you, and immediately fix the flowers and put them in water and on display.

 

It has actually become a "thing" where it has come up in conversation with friends (talking about whether their BFs or Hs buy flowers, whether it is important or simply trite) and he prods me and says "tell them!" with a little twinkle in his eye and then proudly sits there when I explain that he gets me flowers pretty regularly and how sweet it is. His mother and sister also comment on how nice it is, because I let them know that he is thoughtful in that way. Not saying that all guys would go so far, but I do think that someone that cares about you and understands that something is important to you (even if it is not "rational" or "logical" at all in their eyes) will strive to at least try. And to communicate that it is important to you is more than just your initial conversation but includes your reaction to him.

[BetheButterfly]

Him clearing the bathtub drain with his bare hands tells me everything I need to know. (Uh, cause that is nasssteeee! If that isn't love, I don't know what is! lol)

 

Lol. So true!!!

 

I hate doing that, and yep my hubby does it out of love. He also has more hair than I do lol!

 

It is very sweet all that men do for the women they love.

 

even if it's not flowers...

[Els]

I get it, and I know that me saying, "But all that stuff really gets old quick" wouldn't help because the whole thing is you want to experience it. Honestly, everyone should at some point, maybe. I don't know. I love practical gifts. Much better than flowers that die, or diamonds that are for everyone, or whatever. I've dated men who gave copious but generic gifts, with grand romantic gestures, that made me feel empty, so it's easy for me to say, right? That's what people who say, "That stuff doesn't matter" miss is that they usually only know it doesn't matter because they've experienced it.

 

I totally get that. I'm sure it WOULD feel empty, if it were not backed up by a solid relationship and a person you are already in love with. I did actually receive some note-poem thing in the past from a guy whom I had already told point-blank that I was not interested in, and all it did was make me feel guilty. Equally so, to be fair, my ex had actually bought me flowers once before, but I feel it didn't count because it was for college prom and I happened to know that his friends had to nudge him to get it because 'it would look bad if I was the only girl with a date who wasn't carrying a bouquet'. So... yeah. It isn't the item itself that matters so much to me, I guess, but also the intent behind it.

 

And that is why I feel hesitant to have a serious conversation about it, in response to you and 16thstreet's suggestions. The part about it where he does it because he wanted to give me a great surprise and not because he feels like I would be unhappy if I didn't, is of paramount importance. People here have given great advice on how to do that, but I think it's a pretty fine line right there. I don't feel it's the same thing as disclosing a sexual fantasy - even with those, I told him because he specifically asked me and tried to find out what I wanted. I'm sure I will bring it up sometime, it just feels easier if I do it when I get the customary annual 'what do you want for your birthday?' question.

[16thstreet]

So... yeah. It isn't the item itself that matters so much to me, I guess, but also the intent behind it.

 

And that is why I feel hesitant to have a serious conversation about it, in response to you and 16thstreet's suggestions. The part about it where he does it because he wanted to give me a great surprise and not because he feels like I would be unhappy if I didn't, is of paramount importance.

 

Want to point out that just because you have a general discussion about now it does not mean that later he won't genuinely be acting out of the intent to give you a great surprise. That is what motivated my suggestion to consider having a discussion now about the issue generally rather than close to any specific event later.

 

I'm sure I will bring it up sometime, it just feels easier if I do it when I get the customary annual 'what do you want for your birthday?' question.

 

But then you will be specifically asking for what it is that you want to have occur spontaneously. I don't see your logic here.

 

It was important enough for you to post on LS, so my guess is that it is important enough to you that you should have a discussion about it rather than let it become something that festers. Of course, this comment is coming from someone that is notoriously bad at having these kind of discussions so I understand how it is hard to bring some things up!

[Els]

Thanks, 16th. Very good point there. It was poor explanation on my part. I guess I feel like if I request it out of the blue, it'll be analogous to saying, 'Hey, will you take me out to that expensive French restaurant?' whereas if I just answer a question, the offer is already implicit so I don't feel like a spoilt girl asking for 'more, more!' I could totally see how it could backfire if I explicitly state that I want it close to the date, though.

[16thstreet]

I guess I feel like if I request it out of the blue, it'll be analogous to saying, 'Hey, will you take me out to that expensive French restaurant?' whereas if I just answer a question, the offer is already implicit so I don't feel like a spoilt girl asking for 'more, more!'

 

I see your concern, but another way of looking at it is that if you raise the issue as a general discussion it is analogous to saying: "Look, we do great and wonderful things and I really appreciate everything... but, there is this one other great and wonderful thing that we might consider sometime, and that, as silly as it may sound to you, is going to an expensive French restaurant. It would mean a lot to me to do it. Sometime. For some sort of special occasion or something." You might be asking for that instead of something else (practical does not always mean inexpensive) rather than more, more? Just another way of looking at it.

[Els]

Hmmm. Yeah, maybe the problem is that I have problems asking in general. For stuff that is out of the norm, anyway. Most of my gifts were offered off his own bat, I don't recall ever having asked for any of them, except for occasions where he asked me what I wanted or wanted to buy me something else that I didn't really want/need.

[16thstreet]

Hmmmm. It sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place then. Absent talking about it your BF will not learn how to read your mind, and you will continue to long for this little thing. Which may become a bigger thing as time goes on, which is what I find when I can't seem to find a way to talk about something. Some future argument years from now you throw in "AND YOU NEEEEVER EVEN BUY ME FLOWERS!!!! OR CHOCOLATES!" and he gets a completely confused look on his face.

 

In all seriousness, if you want this (or any other) relationship to work at some point you are going to have to learn how to go about asking in general. Why not try it with something relatively small and see how you both respond? You will learn something about yourself and about each other at the very least.

[Els]

ROFL. I like your humor, 16th.

 

To be fair, I do talk a lot about what I need from an R. Almost excessively, in fact. I seem to have some sort of OCD and sometimes fixate too much on some things. Believe me when I say that gifts are just the exception. In my culture it's poor manners to ask for gifts. It seems to water down their meaning.

 

I think what I will do is to accept and appreciate the ways in which he does show love (and there are several!), and not be impatient about the flowers thing. I mean, whether I experience it now or three years from now doesn't make a huge difference. In the meantime, if an opportunity arises in conversation I'll let him know that I'd love such gestures, and also will show more appreciation if he gives any sort of non-pragmatic gifts.

 

Thanks for talking me through it, guys! Very much appreciated.

[zengirl]

Glad you feel more at ease with it, Elswyth.

I totally get that. I'm sure it WOULD feel empty, if it were not backed up by a solid relationship and a person you are already in love with.

 

Just a clarification: ftr, I didn't necessarily mean based on the person giving it. I just mean. . . even if you 'love' each other, when you really know each other, the gifts become more practical IME, as you've experienced, and that's more likely how a man sincerely shows love (organically, on his own, I mean - many men have been conditioned to show sincere love through flowers, but not because they thought of it that way, and may personalize it by, say, selecting a gal's favorite flower or whatnot).

[betterdeal]

Some of us like giving flowers.

[StripeyShirt]

My partner of three years does nothing but pragmatic and useful gifts, and they show me how much he notices what is going on in my life and how thoughtful he is about what makes my life easier. My car is an old one, and unfortunately I am not the best driver. A few weeks ago he showed up with a huge box with two wing mirrors to replace the ones that were attached to my car with tape. I could never have worked out what sort of mirrors to buy or where to get them from. It was a great present. He has bought me a cob web brush, because I never knew they existed and got dirty marks on my ceiling from my broom. He got me new cycling shoes, a cutlery set, a new tv aerial and coffee cups.

 

All of these things were non-essential but made a difference to my life. Sometimes he would overhear something I said to a friend ("my tv reception is crap and I don't know why") and next thing I know I have perfect reception because he took the time and trouble to sort it out for me.

 

Every now and again when he is really busy at work I go to his house and wash and iron a week's supply of business shirts, a week's supply of sandwiches for his lunches and some home cooked meals for when he gets home too late to cook.

 

In these ways we show each other what is important to us, that we listen and understand what makes the other person feel cared for.

 

Ironed shirts and wing mirrors build up our relationship far more that the totally unoriginal gift of a bunch of flowers. I think you may need to reframe and rethink what is romantic.

 

Your friend that you referred to in your first post? That's no way to mend a relationship. And certainly not at the point when it needs fixing.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Elswyth, I completely understand and relate.

 

My husband … clueless. If I give him a strong hint or outright ask for a "romantic gesture," he'll hurry to try to oblige.

 

Of course, part of the romantic gestures we are craving is the part where they think of it themselves, right?

 

In my case, my husband made a very grand and dramatic romantic gesture on our first date. We'd met online, and because he was traveling constantly and so was I, we established a lot of "relationship" between us by the time we met irl, which was in a really nice restaurant. I walked into that place with him (he met me outside) and the table was obscured by a GIGANTIC basket of flowers and little gifts and mementos he had collected on his travels.

 

So, I KNOW he has it in him. But now I get that that was "courtship" behavior and now there is not a need for it anymore, since we are married. He is one pragmatic fellow.

 

This man works like a maniac here on this big farm where I lived alone when he came into my life. There is an incredible amount of work to be done. He does it with a lot of love and pride. When he completes a project, he comes and picks me up on the 4 wheeler and takes me to see his accomplishment, beaming with his very endearing "look of pride."

 

I know that, for him, this is how people who are married and stuck together for the duration express their abiding love. The floral tribute is for dating. In his opinion.

 

So, I guess I have shifted my own feelings about "romantic gesture" to be where he is on that. I'm satisfied and happy. I'm still thinking about how to get a little bit of that first date into our married life, though. I think it would be lovely.

[Mme. Chaucer]

A note to those who are bashing the OP because she would love a romantic gesture:

 

Anyone really appreciates it when a loved one thinks of something and does it JUST BECAUSE THEY KNOW WE REALLY WOULD LOVE IT. This something can be anything from buying flowers, jewelry, administering blowjobs, washing a car, preparing a meal, giving a massage.

[BetrayedH]

Going to post here again, seeing as the Dating forum is still a veritable minefield, and I received lots of good helpful advice here the last time.

 

Brief history: We've been in an LTR for over 4 years, with 2 of that being LD. Moved to be with him and we've been living together for 1.5 years now. Currently in our mid-20s.

 

The basis for the entire issue is this: I caught up with an old friend when I flew to another city for academic-related purposes this week. Couple of drinks later, he starts telling me about a mutual friend of ours. That guy is apparently desperately trying to maintain a relationship with some girl who is falling out of love with him, and apparently every time she starts pulling away, he starts throwing out grand romantic gestures such as chocolates, flowers, handbags and other assorted gifts.

 

Now, there are a million things wrong with this entire shenanigan, and I know this sounds bad, but what struck me and resounded the most from the conversation was the fact that I have never had a guy lavish me with such giddy little romantic gestures. And it's something that I realize with alarming frequency that deep within me, I wish to have, at least once. I want the experience of coming home to a lavish bouquet of flowers and a grand proclamation of love in a note beside it just for me. I know the flowers will die a few days later and words mean nothing in themselves, but at least the memories would remain.

 

This isn't to say that the bf doesn't love me, or even that he doesn't spoil me. He does, he really does. He does something for my birthday every year without fail, and Valentine's Day as well when I told him that it meant something to me - but that something usually comes in the form of a pragmatic, useful gift, or a nice dinner out, usually prefixed with him asking me straight out, "What would you like to have for your birthday?"

 

So, yes, I'm not complaining, and I am grateful for all that he does do. This isn't about him being a bad bf, or something he did wrong, or something wrong with our R... This is about some crazy girlish instinct buried deep within layers of intellectualism and rationale, that looks at other girls being on the receiving end of lavish and silly romantic gestures and thinks, "I've never had it. I wonder how it'd feel like. :(" It isn't even that I'm jealous of them, per se. The guy that I mentioned in my introductory paragraph isn't even someone I'd want for a bf - he has displayed a lot of superficiality, lack of commitment, and other things that I personally would consider dealbreakers, with this gf and others in the time that I've known him. So I don't think this is about GIGS either. I guess I just want MY bf to once, just once, throw pragmatism aside and do all that.

 

I think I somehow give out the impression that I don't care for such things, and once a guy gets to know me well enough to know that beneath everything, I really do, we're 1) way past honeymoon phase and 2) I had 'set the bait', so to speak, for a guy as pragmatic as myself. Now, I don't want to change that. I do want someone who is more interested in building a strong relationship foundation, in sticking with each other through thick and thin, through hardship and illness and all the troubles of life, than in just the bells and whistles of an R.. and my bf is all that. But somehow, in contradiction to that, I still crave for the bells and whistles, at least on very rare occasions. This Valentine's Day, as we were heading out for dinner, he said jokingly, "I thought of buying you flowers, but I thought you wouldn't like them." I told him, "I most assuredly would like them." Nothing materialized out of that, up til now.

 

I figure a common suggestion would be: "Just tell him!" I already did, in a way. Based on the conversation above, he at least knows that I would like such things. But to go further, and tell him how important it feels to me right now.. seems to spoil the entire thing. The whole point of crazy romantic gestures is the intention of the person behind them to surprise the person on the receiving end, I find. If it gets up to the point of me telling him, "I've never had flowers from a guy in my life, and I would really, really like to have them from you, it's very important to me", it really seems to nullify the romance, which is what that is all about. And that's why I'm stumped here.

 

What should I do? Just convince myself that I'm being silly and try to forget about it?

 

I've only read your original post so forgive me if I repeat others.

 

Yes, you need to tell him. It doesn't have to be, "For my birthday I would really appreciate x, y, z." And you have to understand that guys DO NOT understand subtle clues. AT ALL. You nearly have to beat us over the head. One sentence that you would appreciate flowers does nothing for us. My wife made a lot of "softball" attempts to guide me on lots of things. Switching to 2% milk did not get the message thru to me that she desperately wanted me to lose weight.

 

I think you can sometime sit down and say that you would appreciate romantic gestures like flowers, cards and chocolate "just because" everyone once in a while. Take some accountability since you've probably come across as pragmatic over the years but say, "Hey, I am still a woman, you know." make it a light and friendly conversation where there is no immediate birthday coming up or whatever and when the two of you have a chance to bond over it. I bet he'll feel a but guilty for being such a bonehead guy over it and he may just surprise you the next time around. Sounds like he loves you. Don't let yourself build resentment over something that can be remedied so easily. I wish I had known what my wife needed; I would have given it to her.

[mercy]

Elswyth, I don't know what a lot of terms mean, such as, LTR or LD. I know that it is a type of relationship but if you could clear that up for me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

My h is a really romantic guy, well, he wants to be but he needs help. When we first married years ago I took it personal that I wasn't getting what I needed, such as romantic gestures and I didn't like the idea of having to spell it out for him. But in the end neither of us was getting what we wanted, his desire to be romantic and my desire to be doted on.

 

So, this is what I did. I purchased a hardback journal and titled it, desires of my heart. Every so often I'll add something to it. While he can use the ideas on the list something about them has to be unique to him, he can't use the list verbatim.

 

Some examples. I love sunrises and sunsets. He takes me to the country and we sit on his tailgate and I'm in heaven. While running errands he picks up some daises. I get little surprises in the mail, things he's purchased for me online. Poetry books and inspirational books are my favorite. He just googles 'best poetry books' and he's done.

 

We've been through many journals over the years. He thought he'd be cute one time and he purchased himself one. But his idea of romantic gestures that he needs are the romantic gestures that always ends with, what I'd like is - SEX!

 

I just adore that man!

[Els]

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I appreciate it, I really do. This entire issue sort of got pushed to the back of my head recently, though, with a lot of stuff that has happened and that we needed to deal with recently. Basically, we'll both be making big moves in our careers soon and we're going through a lot to align them so that we can continue living in the same city together. So stuff like this really gets pushed to the wayside at times like this.

 

Mme and Stripey - I completely agree that pragmatic gestures of love are way, way more important. That is the whole reason I feel bad even asking for more. Because he gives so much already, just in a different way.

 

Betrayed and mercy - I'm sure I'll find a way to bring it up when we've settled into comfort again someday. In the meantime, no rush, right? I also think the method that you established was incredibly cute and endearing, mercy.

 

Elswyth, I don't know what a lot of terms mean, such as, LTR or LD. I know that it is a type of relationship but if you could clear that up for me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

LTR = long term relationship

LD = long distance

[Els]

Aww, snap, out of the blue today he brought back a cake from some boutique cake shop he knew I'd always wanted to try. Several months after the last time it popped up in our conversation, too! And he later let on that he'd tried to buy it over the past week or so, but every time he dropped by the shop after work they were sold out of that particular flavour.

 

Seriously, screw flowers.

[Leigh 87]

GREAT thread:)

 

I have learnt that A LOT of healthy, happy relationships, do not involve the man bying roses, diamonds, and the traditional things men do in fairy tales. And this has REALLY helped me, in understanding that not ALL great relationships have to include those acts! Most importantly, it is NOT a sign a guy is not " that in love with you after all" if he doesn't buy you bunches of roses and chocolates every month.

 

My boyfriend did not do " things" I assumed to be signs of " him being into me". For instance, he was not all over me physically when we went out to get a DVD, yet was ver cuddely alone.

And during our relationship, he never was one to get me flowers all the time or buy me necklaces or rings...

So, I asked him about it. I said " aww, I would love for you to get me flowers and spoil me that way more often!"

He was glad I told him, and simply started doing it more. On walks together, he will pick flowers when he feels like it. I love that more than the ones he buys.

 

It was really that simple. I told him I would love him to be more romantic in that sense, and get me flowers occasionally. So he did. Not right away, but soo after, and then kept it up.

 

I am still waiting on the rings and necklaces...... He thought he those things came with money, and that he should save up for a good quality one......

So I have told him " no, I am a girl, and would be delighted if you felt compelled to buy me even a cheap piece..... It is the gesture, it is really old school and romantic, and there is a part of me that is a girl still, that watched all the men in the cartoons give their loves roses and diamonds"

[Leigh 87]

And hey - do ya know what I did when I wanted him to buy me flowers more?

 

 

I brought HIM flowers

 

 

It worked well in this case, because he is a man who LOVES me to smother him with love, cuddles, and show him that he is my boy.

If your partner is not into that, then he may be perplexed and not know what to make of you bringing him flowers...

 

 

The theory is the same as: if you want more oral sex, a good way to go about it, is to give your partner more blow jobs!

[Els]

GREAT thread:)

 

I have learnt that A LOT of healthy, happy relationships, do not involve the man bying roses, diamonds, and the traditional things men do in fairy tales. And this has REALLY helped me, in understanding that not ALL great relationships have to include those acts! Most importantly, it is NOT a sign a guy is not " that in love with you after all" if he doesn't buy you bunches of roses and chocolates every month.

 

Definitely agree with this. I'm pretty much over the flowers thing at the moment anyway. I think I was in a 'romantic trough' - there are ebbs and flows in relationships, and RL had been very hectic and stressful for the both of us for a long time now, so it was a trough and I was a little dehydrated, lol. Now I don't feel any need for it after the incredibly thoughtful gesture. I will still be honest about liking them if it ever comes up, but it doesn't really matter to me.

 

I would happily get him flowers if he liked them, but he seems to prefer simple stuff like home cooked meals, which I shall hopefully be able to start with again next week when there is a bit of a lull in the recent hectic craziness.

[mercy]

 

 

LTR = long term relationship

LD = long distance

 

Thank you! Honestly threads will make a lot more sense knowing those two acronyms.

 

I had a feeling about LD but LTR really threw me.

[Els]

Thank you! Honestly threads will make a lot more sense knowing those two acronyms.

 

I had a feeling about LD but LTR really threw me.

 

No problem. I think there was a stickied acronym thread some time ago but not sure if it's still there now. I knew some of them right away, but stuff like GIGS, DH, and BS really threw me off, lol.

[carhill]

Acronym thread

 

I didn't read the thread but would say the two most common 'romantic gestures' I shared with my exW were bring coffee (she was a coffee 'nut') and a fresh-cooked breakfast to her in bed, along with giving her foot baths and foot massages. She was the pedicure expert but I did the care and comfort part, since she made her living standing on her feet all day.

 

I prefer the personal touch versus buying things, but understand presents have their place. IMO, it's about being 'sensitive' to one's partner. Probably not a good attribute for a man to have to retain attraction but it's my style and I ain't gonna change it.