Els Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Going to post here again, seeing as the Dating forum is still a veritable minefield, and I received lots of good helpful advice here the last time. Brief history: We've been in an LTR for over 4 years, with 2 of that being LD. Moved to be with him and we've been living together for 1.5 years now. Currently in our mid-20s. The basis for the entire issue is this: I caught up with an old friend when I flew to another city for academic-related purposes this week. Couple of drinks later, he starts telling me about a mutual friend of ours. That guy is apparently desperately trying to maintain a relationship with some girl who is falling out of love with him, and apparently every time she starts pulling away, he starts throwing out grand romantic gestures such as chocolates, flowers, handbags and other assorted gifts. Now, there are a million things wrong with this entire shenanigan, and I know this sounds bad, but what struck me and resounded the most from the conversation was the fact that I have never had a guy lavish me with such giddy little romantic gestures. And it's something that I realize with alarming frequency that deep within me, I wish to have, at least once. I want the experience of coming home to a lavish bouquet of flowers and a grand proclamation of love in a note beside it just for me. I know the flowers will die a few days later and words mean nothing in themselves, but at least the memories would remain. This isn't to say that the bf doesn't love me, or even that he doesn't spoil me. He does, he really does. He does something for my birthday every year without fail, and Valentine's Day as well when I told him that it meant something to me - but that something usually comes in the form of a pragmatic, useful gift, or a nice dinner out, usually prefixed with him asking me straight out, "What would you like to have for your birthday?" So, yes, I'm not complaining, and I am grateful for all that he does do. This isn't about him being a bad bf, or something he did wrong, or something wrong with our R... This is about some crazy girlish instinct buried deep within layers of intellectualism and rationale, that looks at other girls being on the receiving end of lavish and silly romantic gestures and thinks, "I've never had it. I wonder how it'd feel like. :(" It isn't even that I'm jealous of them, per se. The guy that I mentioned in my introductory paragraph isn't even someone I'd want for a bf - he has displayed a lot of superficiality, lack of commitment, and other things that I personally would consider dealbreakers, with this gf and others in the time that I've known him. So I don't think this is about GIGS either. I guess I just want MY bf to once, just once, throw pragmatism aside and do all that. I think I somehow give out the impression that I don't care for such things, and once a guy gets to know me well enough to know that beneath everything, I really do, we're 1) way past honeymoon phase and 2) I had 'set the bait', so to speak, for a guy as pragmatic as myself. Now, I don't want to change that. I do want someone who is more interested in building a strong relationship foundation, in sticking with each other through thick and thin, through hardship and illness and all the troubles of life, than in just the bells and whistles of an R.. and my bf is all that. But somehow, in contradiction to that, I still crave for the bells and whistles, at least on very rare occasions. This Valentine's Day, as we were heading out for dinner, he said jokingly, "I thought of buying you flowers, but I thought you wouldn't like them." I told him, "I most assuredly would like them." Nothing materialized out of that, up til now. I figure a common suggestion would be: "Just tell him!" I already did, in a way. Based on the conversation above, he at least knows that I would like such things. But to go further, and tell him how important it feels to me right now.. seems to spoil the entire thing. The whole point of crazy romantic gestures is the intention of the person behind them to surprise the person on the receiving end, I find. If it gets up to the point of me telling him, "I've never had flowers from a guy in my life, and I would really, really like to have them from you, it's very important to me", it really seems to nullify the romance, which is what that is all about. And that's why I'm stumped here. What should I do? Just convince myself that I'm being silly and try to forget about it?
denise_xo Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Maybe the two of you should have a collaborative reading of that 'love languages' book, as a means of relationship development. I think it deals exactly with these kinds of issues.
betterdeal Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Sounds like he's not into giving gifts and outward displays of affection like that. And you are. So you have conflicting interests. Which leads to, as I'm sure you know, the choices of: 1. Accept this is the way he is 2. Discuss it with him and let him know how you feel and what you'd like 3. Leave him and start afresh 4. Get a second boyfriend who does this for you and maintain two relationships 5. Send yourself gifts and pretend they are from him Although 2 is the Gold Standard of relationships, it can be a bind, and you want him to do it because he wants to, not because you tell him to, right? Right. But then, if you word it well, and he chooses to do it after you explain your wishes, he is doing it because he wants to. And maybe he does want to be more romantic in that way, but just hasn't plucked up the courage for one reason or another, and by telling him you'd like it, you're helping him grow as a person. And if he doesn't you have all those other options open to you.
Author Els Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 Maybe the two of you should have a collaborative reading of that 'love languages' book, as a means of relationship development. I think it deals exactly with these kinds of issues. Ohhh. Honestly, denise, I think he would rather get us a vacation to Hawaii than read a relationship book. Also, I browsed through the summary of the book myself, and I think that doesn't really help us in that I, for some reason, seem to want it ALL. So it isn't about him needing to switch styles. Sounds like he's not into giving gifts and outward displays of affection like that. And you are. So you have conflicting interests. I think it's more like he isn't into a particular style of gift-giving. He gives me quite a lot of gifts off his own steam, actually, just pragmatic and useful ones. Which leads to, as I'm sure you know, the choices of: 1. Accept this is the way he is 2. Discuss it with him and let him know how you feel and what you'd like 3. Leave him and start afresh 4. Get a second boyfriend who does this for you and maintain two relationships 5. Send yourself gifts and pretend they are from him ROFL, #5 cracked me up. #4 is out of the question, and so is #3, because I'd be the dumbest person in the world to leave an R this good for an annual bouquet. Guess that leaves me with #1 or #2. Although 2 is the Gold Standard of relationships, it can be a bind, and you want him to do it because he wants to, not because you tell him to, right? Right. But then, if you word it well, and he chooses to do it after you explain your wishes, he is doing it because he wants to. And maybe he does want to be more romantic in that way, but just hasn't plucked up the courage for one reason or another, and by telling him you'd like it, you're helping him grow as a person. And if he doesn't you have all those other options open to you. Thanks, I never saw it that way. How would you consider 'wording it well' to be like? Elaborations/examples, please?
betterdeal Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Well, if you start with seeing it as a problem that needs a solution that you can both work on together, rather than a him / me blame / guilt sort of thing, that should get you heading in the right direction. So, um, how about "Dave, one of the things I like about you is that you give me gifts and I love / like / cherish the feeling I get when you do that. I don't know if you know this, but I like the idea of receiving romantic gifts sometimes, like flowers or chocolates: something that serves no purpose other than to show your affection. I know it might seem staged or weird to send me flowers now that I've asked you to, but maybe we can pretend to be in an old movie and that would get the ball rolling. Whadday say?" And maybe think about what you'll do in return. Send him perfumed love letters by post, or a leather coated notepad for instance. Edited July 10, 2012 by betterdeal
Author Els Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 The problem with getting him stuff in return is that HE responds best to pragmatic gifts as opposed to flowery ones. I think the best response I ever got was when I packed him lunch because his workplace cafe was closed. On the other hand, I think the handmade card that I made him for his last birthday is languishing away in one of his bags somewhere.... Your example seems pretty cool - I think you worked around the 'staged' thing with amazing genius. But it seems a really delicate procedure, walking a pretty fine line. Do it a bit wrong and everything is spoiled to the point of no return, wherein any future gesture on his part seems like something he does just because I requested it. No?
denise_xo Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 .... I think that doesn't really help us in that I, for some reason, seem to want it ALL. oh, OK, then
betterdeal Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 The problem with getting him stuff in return is that HE responds best to pragmatic gifts as opposed to flowery ones. I think the best response I ever got was when I packed him lunch because his workplace cafe was closed. On the other hand, I think the handmade card that I made him for his last birthday is languishing away in one of his bags somewhere.... Do things that will make him smile, things that will make him happy. That's all your asking of him and in return, you'll do something similar. It could be iron a shirt or polish his golf trophy or whatever it is that lights up his world. I think the amount of effort or thought or care is what you compare not the details of the act, and doing something to express your affection, something that the other person likes, is what it's about. Your example seems pretty cool - I think you worked around the 'staged' thing with amazing genius. But it seems a really delicate procedure, walking a pretty fine line. Do it a bit wrong and everything is spoiled to the point of no return, wherein any future gesture on his part seems like something he does just because I requested it. No? He can refuse to do it. He can try it and refuse to do it again. The point is, he chooses to do it, even if prompted by you initially. The fact that he did it because you wanted him to tells you something about how he feels about you, right?
betterdeal Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Have you considered wearing slightly looser underwear? It may well calm you down a bit. 1
BetheButterfly Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 What should I do? Just convince myself that I'm being silly and try to forget about it? I don't think you're being silly at all!!! I think most women love romance, and it seems that's what you would like, more romance! My hubby is romantic in some areas and not romantic in others. For example, he gives me air kisses all the time (which for me is romantic) yet sees no reason to buy me flowers. Now, how I deal with that is I buy myself flowers lol. I hope eventually he will, as he gets to know me better and gets used to flowers. However, he has lived since age 18 (he's almost 35 now) in a "bachelor pad" where flowers did not grace his dwelling. So, hopefully after more time with me, he will eventually come to appreciate them and be happy to get them for me, for us! About " I have never had a guy lavish me with such giddy little romantic gestures. And it's something that I realize with alarming frequency that deep within me, I wish to have, at least once. I want the experience of coming home to a lavish bouquet of flowers and a grand proclamation of love in a note beside it just for me. I know the flowers will die a few days later and words mean nothing in themselves, but at least the memories would remain. " I understand. Have you ever thought of maybe buying him flowers and writing him a note? Sometimes it seems guys need to be "taught". Now, it's very possible your boyfriend has no interest in flowers, but maybe if he thinks about "Why did she get me flowers?" he might come up with "Hey! I think she wants me to get her flowers... and a card!" You never know till you try...
BetheButterfly Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Elswyth, based on the length of the relationship, 1.5 years living together, you are starting to get antsy. You are looking for ridiculous, infantile, self-entitled reasons to be dissatisfied with your relationship. In your early or mid 20's presumably marriage is not in the cards, (?), but at this stage of your relationship you either should get married or break up. Or at least be able to maintain the status quo without finding reasons to pick the guy apart. Grow up. If you want flowers, buy yourself flowers. If you think buying flowers for an SO is romantic, then you buy them for him. The type of mentality you have is exactly how women who don't think they could ever cheat find themselves falling into emotional affairs before they know what's happening. You find reasons to be dissatisfied. You start picking. You get resentful and your bf doesn't understand why. The relationship gets strained and colder. Little quarrels about nothing become big fights. Since you are in the process of emotionally distancing yourself from him, you tell yourself the sex isn't very good any longer. You start withholding it. You become more "open" to flirtations from other guys. You start looking around to see if there's something "better" out there. In fact you've already started that process so your relationship is pretty much doomed at this point even if you don't realize that yet. Why don't you just be honest with yourself and him? This isn't about flowers and boxes of candy. After a year and a half of living together, you're bored of him. You're both in a rut and since you really aren't fully committed to each other, and you're both young (hence believing the fantasy of limitless "better options out there"). Please break up with him before the temptation to scratch that itch makes you do something that you will regret. Please don't be like pretty much every other young woman who finds herself in your position, develops an emotional and or physical relationship with a new guy, and THEN breaks up with her bf, because so many young woman are terrified of being alone for even one second--they always have to grab on a to a new branch before letting go of the previous one. You do not understand. at. all. Many women like romance, and flowers and a card appeal to many women because of romantic reasons. It's not something to break up over. Good grief!
Author Els Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 Do things that will make him smile, things that will make him happy. That's all your asking of him and in return, you'll do something similar. It could be iron a shirt or polish his golf trophy or whatever it is that lights up his world. I think the amount of effort or thought or care is what you compare not the details of the act, and doing something to express your affection, something that the other person likes, is what it's about. He can refuse to do it. He can try it and refuse to do it again. The point is, he chooses to do it, even if prompted by you initially. The fact that he did it because you wanted him to tells you something about how he feels about you, right? Great advice, and you have a very good point there. I think I will just continue to give in the way that he likes, and as for the flowers, I'll bring it up once, and let the cards fall where they may. Probably closer to my birthday/next Valentine's so that there is a good 'excuse' to give them if he feels shy about it? Heh. I don't think you're being silly at all!!! I think most women love romance, and it seems that's what you would like, more romance! My hubby is romantic in some areas and not romantic in others. For example, he gives me air kisses all the time (which for me is romantic) yet sees no reason to buy me flowers. Now, how I deal with that is I buy myself flowers lol. I hope eventually he will, as he gets to know me better and gets used to flowers. However, he has lived since age 18 (he's almost 35 now) in a "bachelor pad" where flowers did not grace his dwelling. So, hopefully after more time with me, he will eventually come to appreciate them and be happy to get them for me, for us! Aww, yes! Different ideas of romance, I guess. My bf and I overlap in some ways, in that I think it's incredibly romantic that he stopped by to buy some food that he knew I'd like on the way back from a long day of work today , but there is lack of overlap in other ways, cause we're different individuals. About " I have never had a guy lavish me with such giddy little romantic gestures. And it's something that I realize with alarming frequency that deep within me, I wish to have, at least once. I want the experience of coming home to a lavish bouquet of flowers and a grand proclamation of love in a note beside it just for me. I know the flowers will die a few days later and words mean nothing in themselves, but at least the memories would remain. " I understand. Thank you. Have you ever thought of maybe buying him flowers and writing him a note? Sometimes it seems guys need to be "taught". Now, it's very possible your boyfriend has no interest in flowers, but maybe if he thinks about "Why did she get me flowers?" he might come up with "Hey! I think she wants me to get her flowers... and a card!" You never know till you try... He's a bit of a guy-guy in some aspects, and this is one of them. I am 99% sure that his reaction to me getting him flowers would be 'WTF '. Hahahah.
Author Els Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 You do not understand. at. all. Many women like romance, and flowers and a card appeal to many women because of romantic reasons. It's not something to break up over. Good grief! A short glance at that poster's history reveals him to be a bit of a troll. Now, trolls need food to survive, so I'd politely request everyone here to not feed them, please. oh, OK, then I know, I know, it sounds really bad when put that way. But I can really appreciate all 5 of the love languages, and would love a variety of them (I tend to give in a variety too, but when I'm with a particular person I limit myself to that which they appreciate receiving the most). I'm not partial towards any one or three.
BetheButterfly Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Great advice, and you have a very good point there. I think I will just continue to give in the way that he likes, and as for the flowers, I'll bring it up once, and let the cards fall where they may. Probably closer to my birthday/next Valentine's so that there is a good 'excuse' to give them if he feels shy about it? Heh. Yeah that's a good idea! Aww, yes! Different ideas of romance, I guess. My bf and I overlap in some ways, in that I think it's incredibly romantic that he stopped by to buy some food that he knew I'd like on the way back from a long day of work today , but there is lack of overlap in other ways, cause we're different individuals. Yes that is very romantic too!!! It shows he is thinking of you and caring for you and wanting what makes you happy. With flowers and a card, I think that's something many guys don't understand since they themselves don't feel the desire for them, but food is different! Thank you. He's a bit of a guy-guy in some aspects, and this is one of them. I am 99% sure that his reaction to me getting him flowers would be 'WTF '. Hahahah. Lol. My hubby would tell me something like "This is not for me... this is for you... from you ha ha ha" if I gave him flowers and a card. He would then ask where his present was lol. 1
xxoo Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 If it helps, I went through nearly this exact angst at nearly exactly your age, and I got over it I think I even bought a book on "1000 ways to be romantic" or some such drivel that he completely disregarded I've learned to "read" my partner's natural loving gestures as romantic. So my gifts are practical--so what? They are exactly what I need, show he's been paying attention, and show how much he considers me on a daily basis. What could be more loving and romantic? 3
BetheButterfly Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 A short glance at that poster's history reveals him to be a bit of a troll. Now, trolls need food to survive, so I'd politely request everyone here to not feed them, please. Lol ok I know, I know, it sounds really bad when put that way. But I can really appreciate all 5 of the love languages, and would love a variety of them (I tend to give in a variety too, but when I'm with a particular person I limit myself to that which they appreciate receiving the most). I'm not partial towards any one or three. Lol me too, though I am definitely partial to physical touch and words! My hubby is partial to physical touch and time.
BetheButterfly Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 I've learned to "read" my partner's natural loving gestures as romantic. So my gifts are practical--so what? They are exactly what I need, show he's been paying attention, and show how much he considers me on a daily basis. What could be more loving and romantic? So true and important!!! Great advice to us all
Author Els Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 Yeah that's a good idea! Yes that is very romantic too!!! It shows he is thinking of you and caring for you and wanting what makes you happy. With flowers and a card, I think that's something many guys don't understand since they themselves don't feel the desire for them, but food is different! Good point, and very true. Lol. My hubby would tell me something like "This is not for me... this is for you... from you ha ha ha" if I gave him flowers and a card. He would then ask where his present was lol. LOL sounds about right!!! If it helps, I went through nearly this exact angst at nearly exactly your age, and I got over it I think I even bought a book on "1000 ways to be romantic" or some such drivel that he completely disregarded I've learned to "read" my partner's natural loving gestures as romantic. So my gifts are practical--so what? They are exactly what I need, show he's been paying attention, and show how much he considers me on a daily basis. What could be more loving and romantic? Whoa, such coincidence. Logically, I know all that, xxoo. But there's some instinctive part of me that craves the experience at least once, though. How do I make that part grow up right away? Should I?
betterdeal Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 So, lads, take note: Buy your lass some flowers and she'll like it, especially if it's out of the ordinary for you to do such a thing. 3
shayla Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 My bf is the same way. We are like an old married couple after a year and a half together. He isn't going to buy me flowers, but he will wash and wax my car. He will fix my lopsided washing machine. He will unclog my bathtub drain. He will mow my lawn. Him clearing the bathtub drain with his bare hands tells me everything I need to know. (Uh, cause that is nasssteeee! If that isn't love, I don't know what is! lol) 1
january2011 Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) My ex was the type to buy lots of gifts: jewellery, flowers, underwear, etc. early on in the relationship. Then when we moved in together, the gifts tended to be more pragmatic, except I'd always get flowers on our anniversary, my birthday and Valentine's Day. Towards the later years, his gift-giving also veered more towards acts of service. We were in our 20s. My current SO bought me flowers the first time we met (we're LDR). And paid for things that I chose while we were shopping together. The gifts he bought himself for me were all pragmatic gifts. While I visited him, it pretty much felt like we were living together. He also tends to be an acts of service guy, which I learned to appreciate with hindsight from my experience with my ex. Though thankfully, the current SO is also a physical touch and words of affection guy. We are in our 30s. From experience, when a guy loves you, he wants to please you, make you happy and see you smile/laugh. It might be confusing for him when what makes you happy changes, but it is your job to meet him halfway by letting him know. Though I realise that you also want him to meet you halfway by picking up on your hints without you make a direct request. My current SO is very observant (a combination of it being due to his job and also because he'd learned lessons from his last LTR) and if I mention something, he will respond with, "do you want me to do/buy that for you?" or an equivalent. Unless your guy is very observant and on-the-ball, he won't be very good at reading hints (you know him best). So, you're going to have to make a big deal of romantic rather than pragmatic gifts and talk to him directly. Since you'd already made your stance known about pragamatic gifts, you already know it's not a surprise that he's trying to give you what you want, because you told him you pretty much told him that you've no need for the romantic stuff. He can be persuaded to be more romantic in terms of gift-giving, if you let him know that it's important to you (whether directly or indirectly). You've already made a good start talking about the flowers - you just need to remain consistent in your viewpoint, so that he doesn't think this is just a phase. Edited July 10, 2012 by january2011
xxoo Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Whoa, such coincidence. Logically, I know all that, xxoo. But there's some instinctive part of me that craves the experience at least once, though. How do I make that part grow up right away? Should I? Ok, that part isn't the same, because I did have those gestures in the past. In the early stages, my H was over the top with flowers and poems, and then it faded out. Would you believe me if I said that it is over-rated?
january2011 Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 words of affection Sorry, I meant "words of affirmation."
Author Els Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 Unless your guy is very observant and on-the-ball, he won't be very good at reading hints (you know him best). So, you're going to have to make a big deal of romantic rather than pragmatic gifts and talk to him directly. Since you'd already made your stance known about pragamatic gifts, you already know it's not a surprise that he's trying to give you what you want, because you told him you pretty much told him that you've no need for the romantic stuff. He can be persuaded to be more romantic in terms of gift-giving, if you let him know that it's important to you (whether directly or indirectly). You've already made a good start talking about the flowers - you just need to remain consistent in your viewpoint, so that he doesn't think this is just a phase. Hmm, this is really good advice. I should probably start with making a big deal out of the stuffed animal he got me, which is probably the least pragmatic gift he's done so far. Ok, that part isn't the same, because I did have those gestures in the past. In the early stages, my H was over the top with flowers and poems, and then it faded out. Would you believe me if I said that it is over-rated? I have no doubt that I would likely feel the same way after a few years of flowers and poems. :laugh:
Recommended Posts