What is 'normal' for the kids? What is real? Am I being selfish?

[Adamgem]

I can really relate to Rosie. I, however, am maybe more aware of his unacceptable behavior. I am older and should know better.

 

I am surprised at how vulnerable and desperate I was/am. I was willing to attack another woman (based on things he'd said) because that was easier than seeing him for what he is...

 

And yet here I am in bits that I can't be with him. He led me to believe that it was over between them for the last few years. We met a year ago.

 

I have met all his friends and family. Everybody knows about us. It seems everybody except her. He said she asked many times but he told her no, I am just an employee.

 

When she got over a recent problem I thought she too would know about us. Instead he has suddenly started telling me what a wonderful partner and mother she is...

 

This is after a year of describing her as a complete bit*h. I was so shocked. He does not want her to know about us as it would only upset her.

 

She has suffered enough. He goes to their house to spend time with the kids. He stays there for nights on end. After his last visit he has changed towards her. It seems to me that they are getting on better.

 

When I confronted him... he got in a rage and started shouting that he would never leave them. I said I did not want his children to ever suffer. I wanted nothing to do with that.

 

From the start I said I did not want to have anything to do with splitting a famiy up. If their relationship had ended that was fine but if not I did not want to be involved.

 

He is now trying to say I knew all along. He does not want to let me go and has become very controlling and jealous. He is then very sweet and upset. He can not understand why I am doing this. He is convinced there must be someone else as what I tell him over and over does not make any sense to him.

 

He said he can't sleep or concentrate on anything because he is so upset. I have had great fun but I do not want to be involved with someone that is running off to another woman every now and then.

 

He insists that she does not want the children to know about their split so they are going to pretend everything is 'normal'. I do not have children so I do not know if this is something a mother would want?

 

I know he is not being honest with me but I can not prove it. I can not sleep either. I am so angry with myself for being such a fool. I have spent so much time with him. He keeps insisting he never felt like this before and so on.....

 

Is this another one having a midlife crises? He is ten years older. They have three children - all lovely children too. Is it normal that he expects me to be alone at Christmas and so on whilst he is with his family? Am I being selfish? I am so confused and upset....

 

I really feel for Rosie as I can see how she is thinking.... I can relate in so many ways. It is so difficult to see reality when someone is being so nice to you - they are blinding you.

[woinlove]

I don't think it is "normal" to deceive one's wife and children and try to make them believe a false reality about their home and family situation. However, it is typical behavior for a man who wants both a wife and an OW and doesn't want to face the consequences of having the wife and children know what the real situation is. It sounds like this MM has set things up so that he has substantial time away from his family. The question is whether that is good enough for you or not. It sounds like he doesn't want to change things (from his statement that he will not leave them when you object to him living a married life some of the time). So, if you want things to change, you will have to take the initiative.

[Adamgem]

Thank you for your thoughts. To be completely honest I did not fully comprehend, and perhaps I still do not, the sort of damage this situation could do to the children until I read the thread posted by Rosie.

 

I really would not want them to suffer. I do not even want the partner to suffer but if it is truly over between them why does she not know?

 

Has anybody else heard of this situation where the MM goes and spends time with the family and insists it is all for the kids?

 

He then goes on to say how he has gone off her physically. I see nothing wrong with the woman. In other respects he is now telling me that he still thinks a lot of her. This is all new to me.

 

Is that what I am? A physical replacement for his partner of 17 years? Is this possible? How do I get him to back off? He seems terrified at the thought of me finding someone else...

 

That is the last thing I feel like... I do not seem to know how to be attracted to the right kind of men. I am starting to see I will always be alone as I am not attracted to good men.

 

For quite some time I had the feeling that I am involved with a psychopath but after reading some things on this forum I think maybe he does have a heart. Maybe I am so damaged I no longer see the good in people?

 

When he has now changed his attitude towards his partner and tells me he doesn't want to hurt her - does he have real feelings or is this just because she is willing to do his ironing, cooking, cleaning and whatever else he requires.....

 

I told him I would never accept a role like that and he would be better off staying with someone like that. If has feelings for her and there was a misunderstanding between us - He shouldn't destroy his relationship with this woman.

 

I said I would never put up with the sort of things she has endured over the years with him. He then said that she has not suffered! I asked about the cheating and he said that he had only done 'a little'.... hahahah.. twisted.

 

He would never cheat on me. I am so special. Blah blah blah.....

 

I moved out of my place to be with him and I have nowhere to go at the moment. I am afraid I will not be able to resist him when he gets back from his holiday with his children.

[woinlove]

I do not even want the partner to suffer but if it is truly over between them why does she not know?

 

The reason for the W not knowing is usually one of: MM habitually lies so this is just the way he is and is not likely to ever tell his W the truth, MM wants to stay married and his W might divorce him if he tells her the truth, MM is concerned her knowing the truth will impact him negatively during the divorce.

 

Has anybody else heard of this situation where the MM goes and spends time with the family and insists it is all for the kids?

 

It sounds like you two are living together, but MM leaves to stay in his marital home for days at a time. I have read of cases where MM moved out to live with the OW, but then went back to his W, and I recall cases where this yo-yoing went on for a few cycles. Maybe that is similar to your case, except he seems to be describing it to you as a charade, i.e. his children think he is back but it is all pretend. Haven't quite heard that exact angle used by a MM, but the line that it is all for the kids is the most common one used.

 

 

Is that what I am? A physical replacement for his partner of 17 years? Is this possible? How do I get him to back off? He seems terrified at the thought of me finding someone else...

 

I have no idea what you are to him, but he does seem to want both his W, his M, and you right now. As to how to get him to back off - you can't control him and his actions, only yours. You can back off and remove him from your life if you want.

 

When he has now changed his attitude towards his partner and tells me he doesn't want to hurt her - does he have real feelings or is this just because she is willing to do his ironing, cooking, cleaning and whatever else he requires.....

 

Usually in these cases if you assume MM is doing whatever he is doing for his own selfish reasons and not out of love, compassion or caring for others, you will be correct.

[whichwayisup]

Your guy sounds like the typical MM. He has no plans to leave his wife and kids, he wants to just have you in his life as the OW, to have the affair.

 

It's now up to you to decide what you want, how to handle this. YOU get to call the shots, not him. Why should you sit and be sad on Christmas? You must have family and other good friends to be with during the holidays.

 

If you want to be his ow then accept things as they are. If you want more, realize he isn't capable of giving you all that you want.. Start detaching, focussing on yourself and other genuine people in your life. LIVE LIFE for you, not him. Stop waiting for his call and get busy doing stuff that you may not be doing anymore since MM came into your life.

 

This guy has no plans on leaving his family. He's selfish and a cake eater.

 

I hope you get the strength to end it with him.

[whichwayisup]

He would never cheat on me. I am so special. Blah blah blah.....

Yeah, coming from the guy who cheated on his wife, the woman he said vows to in front of family and friends, the woman who had his three children. That is pretty special - Yet he cheated on her.

 

Don't settle for what he is giving you. Find a good therapist to help you get strong so you can end it with him, grieve the loss and find a healthy long lasting love with someone who isn't married and can give you everything. not just bits and pieces on his time frame. You deserve more and this jerkhead isn't worth it.

 

Forget how he makes you feel in and out of bed. LOOK at him and his flaws.. It'll help you see him for who he is. He's a broken man. He isn't who he's all cracked up to be.

[Adamgem]

A great big thank you for your input. I needed to get some feedback. He was just on the phone to me telling me that she wants to see someone else and that he should see someone else but now me. Anybody but me.

 

I do not understand this at all. It is very confusing.

[Adamgem]

Yeah, coming from the guy who cheated on his wife, the woman he said vows to in front of family and friends, the woman who had his three children. That is pretty special - Yet he cheated on her.

 

Don't settle for what he is giving you. Find a good therapist to help you get strong so you can end it with him, grieve the loss and find a healthy long lasting love with someone who isn't married and can give you everything. not just bits and pieces on his time frame. You deserve more and this jerkhead isn't worth it.

 

Forget how he makes you feel in and out of bed. LOOK at him and his flaws.. It'll help you see him for who he is. He's a broken man. He isn't who he's all cracked up to be.

 

I spend a lot of time travelling and it is almost impossible, rather it is impossible, for me to see a therapist.... Do you know if it is possible to get therapy online? (I mean effective therapy)....

 

Once again I really appreciate your input. He is not letting go. He keeps saying that I must have found someone else and I am using this as an excuse to get out....

[whichwayisup]

A great big thank you for your input. I needed to get some feedback. He was just on the phone to me telling me that she wants to see someone else and that he should see someone else but now me. Anybody but me.

 

I do not understand this at all. It is very confusing.

 

He is lying to you. He is playing you for a fool, he's being a jerk-off too.

 

When a guy starts acting like a dickhead like he acting, it's time to wake up and see that it's over. END IT WITH HIM. Be the bigger person here and tell him goodbye, that he isn't worth all this drama and heartache. He doesn't have the balls to end it so he is treating you like crap so you'll get fed up and break up with him.

[whichwayisup]

I spend a lot of time travelling and it is almost impossible, rather it is impossible, for me to see a therapist.... Do you know if it is possible to get therapy online? (I mean effective therapy)....

 

Once again I really appreciate your input. He is not letting go. He keeps saying that I must have found someone else and I am using this as an excuse to get out....

 

Google your City and online therapists.. See what comes up.

 

You're welcome..

 

Don't let him manipulate you. Who cares if he thinks, really. HE is the one married, not you. Just tell him you're sick and tired of being second fiddle, that you deserve more and since HE HAS A WIFE, you've realized you don't want to waste your precious time and energy on someone who can't give you want you want. A life, a family of your own and one on one love.

 

Then say goodbye, ask him to respect your decision and to leave you alone.

[Adamgem]

He is lying to you. He is playing you for a fool, he's being a jerk-off too.

 

When a guy starts acting like a dickhead like he acting, it's time to wake up and see that it's over. END IT WITH HIM. Be the bigger person here and tell him goodbye, that he isn't worth all this drama and heartache. He doesn't have the balls to end it so he is treating you like crap so you'll get fed up and break up with him.

 

 

Yes, I think you are right. This conversation took place after I said if it is truly over between you two.... get her on the phone to me. Let her tell me you didn't sleep together a few weeks ago. I told him I am not prepared to be with a man that is still listening to the demands of another...

[todreaminblue]

I can really relate to Rosie. I, however, am maybe more aware of his unacceptable behavior. I am older and should know better.

 

I am surprised at how vulnerable and desperate I was/am. I was willing to attack another woman (based on things he'd said) because that was easier than seeing him for what he is...

 

And yet here I am in bits that I can't be with him. He led me to believe that it was over between them for the last few years. We met a year ago.

 

I have met all his friends and family. Everybody knows about us. It seems everybody except her. He said she asked many times but he told her no, I am just an employee.

 

When she got over a recent problem I thought she too would know about us. Instead he has suddenly started telling me what a wonderful partner and mother she is...

 

This is after a year of describing her as a complete bit*h. I was so shocked. He does not want her to know about us as it would only upset her.

 

She has suffered enough. He goes to their house to spend time with the kids. He stays there for nights on end. After his last visit he has changed towards her. It seems to me that they are getting on better.

 

When I confronted him... he got in a rage and started shouting that he would never leave them. I said I did not want his children to ever suffer. I wanted nothing to do with that.

 

From the start I said I did not want to have anything to do with splitting a famiy up. If their relationship had ended that was fine but if not I did not want to be involved.

 

He is now trying to say I knew all along. He does not want to let me go and has become very controlling and jealous. He is then very sweet and upset. He can not understand why I am doing this. He is convinced there must be someone else as what I tell him over and over does not make any sense to him.

 

He said he can't sleep or concentrate on anything because he is so upset. I have had great fun but I do not want to be involved with someone that is running off to another woman every now and then.

 

He insists that she does not want the children to know about their split so they are going to pretend everything is 'normal'. I do not have children so I do not know if this is something a mother would want?

 

I know he is not being honest with me but I can not prove it. I can not sleep either. I am so angry with myself for being such a fool. I have spent so much time with him. He keeps insisting he never felt like this before and so on.....

 

Is this another one having a midlife crises? He is ten years older. They have three children - all lovely children too. Is it normal that he expects me to be alone at Christmas and so on whilst he is with his family? Am I being selfish? I am so confused and upset....

 

I really feel for Rosie as I can see how she is thinking.... I can relate in so many ways. It is so difficult to see reality when someone is being so nice to you - they are blinding you.

 

 

 

[He is now trying to say I knew all along. He does not want to let me go and has become very controlling and jealous. He is then very sweet and upset. He can not understand why I am doing this. He is convinced there must be someone else as what I tell him over and over does not make any sense to him.]

 

 

Ultimately this man is controlling what you are feeling he is manipulating you your relationship and the relationship with his family......if you know he is lying to you then you can be sure he is lying to his wife as well.....you are trying to think about the family i dont believe you are selfish....but this man is......if a husband can allow all his friends and family to know about the two of you......what does that say about respect and selfishness.....no wife would be happy when and if she found out about the two of you and it will be more destructive by knowing everyone around her who she probably trusts, knew too....how do you think she would feel.....she would have appreciated knowing.....so that she could have given the ultimatum earlier....i think you need to set an ultimatum time where it has to come out in the open......that saying often quoted" what you dont know wont hurt you" is false....he is hurting his wife and he is hurting you too.....the longer your affair isnt out in the open .....the deeper that hurt will be for you , for the wife.....and ultimately the kids will be affected by how deep the hurt cuts the mum.....make him be honest and you will sleep a hell of a lot easier....i think you would be a lot better off without a deceitful manipulator.....but that is only an opinion.....i wish you the best.....deb

[Adamgem]

That is exactly how I think about the situation. I think I am taking a chance. I want out because I see how this is all wrong. It will be hard but, in the long run, it will be better for everybody.

 

I believe if I continue to push him to be honest with her - he will give up and leave me alone. Am I being foolish again?

[todreaminblue]

That is exactly how I think about the situation. I think I am taking a chance. I want out because I see how this is all wrong. It will be hard but, in the long run, it will be better for everybody.

 

I believe if I continue to push him to be honest with her - he will give up and leave me alone. Am I being foolish again?

 

 

No ....you are doing the right thing as a woman because you dont feel good and you are second guessing yourself because its not what you want out of life...dont feel foolish for wanting resolution.as far as what he will do its fifty fifty but what he wants is not as important as what you want say that as a mantra to yourself when he looks so sweet and hurt{manipulation}.....i don't think he loves either one of you as much as he loves himself.....and that is what and where he deserves to be......by himself......he deserves to stay with neither.....and i hope that his lies and manipulating ways are what forces him to go it alone for a while.....maybe then he might turn his life around when he can accept responsibility for hurting others.....and maybe you will find happiness in finding someone who only ever has your best interest at heart.....i wish u happiness and hope you find it....deb

[Adamgem]

I appreciate all the feedback I am getting. I am making the most of the free time I have to spend on this forum. I know that when he is around I will not be able to talk freely on here.

 

I find the support and input so important and it gives me strength. I think I will insist he gets his partner to contact me so that I can clear things up once and for all...... although I think I have lost a lot of the feelings I had for him at this point. I see another side of him....

 

I am not able to get therapy in any one place. My only hope is online as I am very restricted because of my work.

[Adamgem]

I just got off the phone to him. He has given me her number - if I want to call her to find out what is going on between them I am free to do so.

 

I wonder if he is bluffing? Am I going to be used to break news to her that he should?

 

Are there any do's or don't's in this situation.... I think I will call her in a couple of hours.

[Adamgem]

Yes, I am doubting everything but what if I have wrongly accussed him of being dishonest?

 

What if he is telling me the truth? If I call her and tell her that he told me they parted company a long time ago and I wanted to verify this before getting into a bigger muddle?

 

Up until now his story did not make sense to me.... now that he is ok with me talking to her I am wondering if I have made a mistake?

[Adamgem]

I will know if it is her on the phone. We have spoken before. In fact we have met. I do not want her to dump him. I want to know if he is being honest with me?

 

I am sure he has given me the right number and he is expecting that I call her... but I do not know what he is up to...

 

I wonder what you mean about him mind f* me? How does he benefit from me calling her?

 

If they are no longer together then no harm done. If they are together - he can never expect me to stay with him. It seems like a win win situation for me.

 

I, however, do not want to be used in any way as a pawn in their game....

 

Could you tell me how you think he is messing with me? I do not mean to sound stupid but I am emotionally involved and I need someone detached to hammer it into me.

 

He said that she would probably be happy to pour her heart out to me about all their problems over the years....

[todreaminblue]

I will know if it is her on the phone. We have spoken before. In fact we have met. I do not want her to dump him. I want to know if he is being honest with me?

 

I am sure he has given me the right number and he is expecting that I call her... but I do not know what he is up to...

 

I wonder what you mean about him mind f* me? How does he benefit from me calling her?

 

If they are no longer together then no harm done. If they are together - he can never expect me to stay with him. It seems like a win win situation for me.

 

I, however, do not want to be used in any way as a pawn in their game....

 

Could you tell me how you think he is messing with me? I do not mean to sound stupid but I am emotionally involved and I need someone detached to hammer it into me.

 

He said that she would probably be happy to pour her heart out to me about all their problems over the years....

 

 

 

When I confronted him... he got in a rage and started shouting that he would never leave them. I said I did not want his children to ever suffer. I wanted nothing to do with that.

 

From the start I said I did not want to have anything to do with splitting a famiy up. If their relationship had ended that was fine but if not I did not want to be involved.

 

He is now trying to say I knew all along. He does not want to let me go and has become very controlling and jealous. He is then very sweet and upset. He can not understand why I am doing this. He is convinced there must be someone else as what I tell him over and over does not make any sense to him.

 

 

What you wrote above is a mind f...k If he is legit then ring up and arrange to meet his wife for a coffee.....Talking about this affair over the phone isnt the way to go.....tell him that you dont feel comfortable talking to her over the phone when her children are probably around her and want to have a heart to heart in person without possible family interruptions....after all you are concerned about his kids.........then when you tell him this .....tell me what his reaction is......you are being manipulated and he is mind f....king you because you are confused.....this guy is bad news but you obviously love him.....i honestly feel he isnt worth the heartache......let me know if you follow through with my suggestion about meeting her.....good luck....deb

[Adamgem]

Thank you for your reply. That sounds like a good idea but there are a few little problems. She lives in another country so meeting for a coffee would be difficult.

 

At the moment he is with the kids on holiday. I asked him when it be a good time to call and he said in the evenings.

 

One of my friends said I shouldn't call - that is was low... (we were communicating by text so I am not entirely sure what she meant)... but it does seem a bit desperate...

 

I am having some serious doubts but the more I pull away the harder he tries....that doesn't make things easy.

 

For the moment I am going to wait and think about it a little more - I will keep you posted. I really value your feedback. Thanks....

[todreaminblue]

Thank you for your reply. That sounds like a good idea but there are a few little problems. She lives in another country so meeting for a coffee would be difficult.

 

At the moment he is with the kids on holiday. I asked him when it be a good time to call and he said in the evenings.

 

One of my friends said I shouldn't call - that is was low... (we were communicating by text so I am not entirely sure what she meant)... but it does seem a bit desperate...

 

I am having some serious doubts but the more I pull away the harder he tries....that doesn't make things easy.

 

For the moment I am going to wait and think about it a little more - I will keep you posted. I really value your feedback. Thanks....

 

 

This situation you are in is extremely difficult.....I agree with your friend a phone call to someone who lives in another country is a bit hard to deal with from both sides......how do you know all his family and frfiends if he is from another country? This guy is a frequent flyer........i would set your heart on ending this as soon as possible.....so you aren't wasting time on a pipe dream......find someone real and who doesn't belong to the mile high club.....you probably aren't the first dalliance or will you be the last....you deserve better.....the wife deserves better .....go with your gut.....you know what is best for you.....you just have to come to terms with how to deal with it.......he is part time dad....part time husband and your part time lover.....how long will you be happy with that?.....if you can deal with him having to disappear frequently...always being unsure of his true intentions.....him being distrustful of you then he is your man.....or maybe you want someone who is more committed who you have no reservations about....only you know the answer to that......i hope you stay true to what you want and need to be completely happy.......good luck....deb