questions about filing for divorce

[merrmeade]

I have been posting for a few weeks under a thread I started - "Husband intimacy with sister-in-law a devastating blow. I have gotten to the point where it is time to get things in order for the possibility of filing for divorce at the end of this month. I have to wait until then according to TexasLawHelp.org | A guide to free and low-cost legal aid, assistance and services in Texas to meet six-month residency requirements. I could technically prove that I've been a resident for longer but this seems safer, no question. It would take 61 days for the divorce to finalize if there are no glitches. I am calling this Plan B.

 

We are going to start marriage counseling in the meantime, but I'm not holding out much hope for it to change much.

 

He does not yet know that I've gone this far. He thinks I'm still on Plan A - stay with him trying to reconcile until he finishes current project then help him move out and drive to sister's several states away. I just do not think I can deal with the waiting and don't feel committed to trying to work it out. The only problem is that I don't want any of my children to end up helping him get to his sister's. That was why I had been

 

Our community and separate property seems quite simple at the moment. We have been downsizing for years already, sold our last home and simplified possessions. Kids are grown. I suppose it's still better to write everything down, and I have a few weeks. He cannot touch my assets which my mother left me in a trust. The trust is protected from his creditors. His assets are negligible; there's nothing I need to claim as community property.

 

I would like to file for divorce and be done with him. I am concerned about telling family - both families, children (grown) - as I don't want to be seen as the villain when I have been the victim. There is a very real possibility that I will be seen as at fault since I have been gone a lot in recent years (traveling with work) and H's health is bad. (He also uses this to get sympathy.) The biggest problem will be my brother and his two sons, young adults. He is paralyzed completely and has a sad existence in a nursing home. His children are dealing with that. My sister-in-law completely denies and avoids saying or writing anything that implicates her part in the adultery. In fact, I would only be able to prove their emotional attachment. If he stays in my brother's house (where half of the affair took place), then I have to figure out what I am responsible for in that regard. In Plan A, I was taking the stand that I should make sure H is out of my brother's house and away from the SIL/OW. My husband has given me a detailed verbal confession that the affair was also physical. I can deal with some of this in therapy but value the suggestions and insights offered on LS.

 

Does anyone have experience filing for divorce this way - without lawyers? Am I missing something that could be a problem later on any level - personal or legal?

[96nole]

You still should consult a divorce lawyer to make sure you have everything covered for your protection. And make sure it is a lawyer that deals in divorce. Not any lawyer will do in this situation. You can still do a lot of the leg work yourself to save money.

Edited July 10, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed full quote

[16thstreet]

Hi Merrmeade,

 

I went through the process of divorce several years ago. First via legal separation and then, when it became clear that my xH was really not committed to change, and conversion to divorce. I considered doing it without an attorney but decided against that approach and here is why: my xH was also without much in the way of assets or earning compared to me. Although you have some assets gifted to you protected by your mother's trust, you do still have a job with earnings and it sounds like he does not (I've read your other thread). Spousal maintenance could be an issue. In my case, I hired an attorney in anticipation of that fight, because once I decided that things needed to end, I did not want to have any continued connection. Rather than maintenance we settled financial terms up front (that, by the way, did not prevent his mother from later slandering me to mutual acquaintances in town and writing me to tell me that I should have paid more to xH).

 

Right now your H is acting in a way to get you to stay because he thinks you are only considering Plan A. You have no idea how he may act once he learns that you are considering Plan B. For instance, my xH sold most of my belongings while I was out of town when we were in the process of divorce. My family had to intervene and ask him to return some family items as a favor to them (not me) because it had not been specifically addressed in the papers. He was not physically unwell, but my xH played the emotional unwell card every single time he could to garner sympathy and paint me as the "bad" spouse. It would not surprise me if your H would turn to such tactics, esp. if he is genuinely narcissistic. Having an attorney who can think of all the negative possibilities for you and protect you can be very helpful (and soul-saving) in what is a very difficult process. Let me tell you that although I knew in my heart of hearts that the divorce was the right thing, it was the hardest thing I have ever done even with the help of an attorney to deal with much of the difficult part of things. In my case, it cost about $10k when all was said and done, but in retrospect it was money well spent.

 

In short, there are both personal and legal reasons to consider getting a good divorce attorney. But, I was not in Texas and I do not know the laws or issues that come up in Texas.

 

Concerning your family, it will probably be very difficult for them, but if you decide that you are going to do this you need to keep in mind that you need to do it for yourself. Your children are now adults and the person you need to protect most is yourself. From your other thread, it sounds like you have a strong tendency to act based on what you think other people expect (I have struggled with this and apologies if I am misreading things), rather on what it is that you want and what is best for yourself. IC will help you understand that acting in a way that is best for yourself (loving and respecting yourself) is part of acting in loving way toward your family. In the end you do not owe it to anyone to prove the A happened. If your H is truly willing to try to mend things, he will come clean with the family and your friends, genuinely be humble, and admit to his mistakes honestly. If not, there is no need to play his word and his SIL's word against yours. It is pointless. You have your reasons and that is all that matters -- being at peace with yourself.

 

That's all I have to offer. Best wishes to you.

Edited July 10, 2012 by 16thstreet

[merrmeade]

Hi Merrmeade,

 

I went through the process of divorce several years ago. First via legal separation and then, when it became clear that my xH was really not committed to change, and conversion to divorce. I considered doing it without an attorney but decided against that approach and here is why: my xH was also without much in the way of assets or earning compared to me. Although you have some assets gifted to you protected by your mother's trust, you do still have a job with earnings and it sounds like he does not (I've read your other thread). Spousal maintenance could be an issue. In my case, I hired an attorney in anticipation of that fight, because once I decided that things needed to end, I did not want to have any continued connection. Rather than maintenance we settled financial terms up front (that, by the way, did not prevent his mother from later slandering me to mutual acquaintances in town and writing me to tell me that I should have paid more to xH).

 

Right now your H is acting in a way to get you to stay because he thinks you are only considering Plan A. You have no idea how he may act once he learns that you are considering Plan B. For instance, my xH sold most of my belongings while I was out of town when we were in the process of divorce. My family had to intervene and ask him to return some family items as a favor to them (not me) because it had not been specifically addressed in the papers. He was not physically unwell, but my xH played the emotional unwell card every single time he could to garner sympathy and paint me as the "bad" spouse. It would not surprise me if your H would turn to such tactics, esp. if he is genuinely narcissistic. Having an attorney who can think of all the negative possibilities for you and protect you can be very helpful (and soul-saving) in what is a very difficult process. Let me tell you that although I knew in my heart of hearts that the divorce was the right thing, it was the hardest thing I have ever done even with the help of an attorney to deal with much of the difficult part of things. In my case, it cost about $10k when all was said and done, but in retrospect it was money well spent.

 

In short, there are both personal and legal reasons to consider getting a good divorce attorney. But, I was not in Texas and I do not know the laws or issues that come up in Texas.

 

Concerning your family, it will probably be very difficult for them, but if you decide that you are going to do this you need to keep in mind that you need to do it for yourself. Your children are now adults and the person you need to protect most is yourself. From your other thread, it sounds like you have a strong tendency to act based on what you think other people expect (I have struggled with this and apologies if I am misreading things), rather on what it is that you want and what is best for yourself. IC will help you understand that acting in a way that is best for yourself (loving and respecting yourself) is part of acting in loving way toward your family. In the end you do not owe it to anyone to prove the A happened. If your H is truly willing to try to mend things, he will come clean with the family and your friends, genuinely be humble, and admit to his mistakes honestly. If not, there is no need to play his word and his SIL's word against yours. It is pointless. You have your reasons and that is all that matters -- being at peace with yourself.

 

That's all I have to offer. Best wishes to you.

 

I am definitely needing this conversation, the "what could happen" conversation. One thing I'm realizing that I need - more than reconciliation or his changing into a generous, empathic, expressive person (not gonna happen) - is for him to hear and recognize what he's done. I want it all out. I am not convinced there have only been two (he said that he had a "fling" with someone in grad school years and years ago). I want him to admit all of it in front of someone - therapist let it be - but someone. I want him to see, know and feel all the ways that he's been self-serving and callous. He needs to recognize this fully for lots of reasons, but I really need it.

 

I also need to work out how others are informed. I must not be blamed again. The only way that will be possible is if others know the truth. I need to figure out how to do that. "Others" means children (they are grown) and my brothers and their families. If I keep the truth from my brother in the nursing home, that means that his sons will know only his wife's version of what's happened. They will continue to blame me for being selfish and not caring about my poor, sensitive, kind-hearted, generous H who has been so good to them. The alternative is to disclose to my brother and his children that his wife committed adultery with my husband and, thereby, destroy him.

Edited July 11, 2012 by merrmeade

[16thstreet]

I am definitely needing this conversation, the "what could happen" conversation.

 

I also need to work out how others are informed. I must not be blamed again.

 

You are asking for some perspective on two very different questions. I might parse out the blame question (from the attorney vs solo legal and personal issues question) and toss it out there to see what others have experienced. Blame is something I didn't consider in advance and, although my family was very hurt by the divorce, it was not ultimately an issue of blame for them. We all sort of repeated the mantra together that nobody, not nobody, truly understands what happens inside of a relationship except for the two people involved and let it go.

 

One possibility for your brother is simply to disclose to him that you are leaving your H (if that is what you end up doing) because he had an affair and the circumstances around it are so incredibly hurtful that there simply is no hope for reconciliation. Period. You do not have to say to him, H had an affair with your wife and that's why we are getting divorced.

 

If you actually go down the path of reconciliation, it is appropriate for your H to disclose to your brother that he had a very hurtful affair (without giving details) and that is or that you and H are going through a very difficult process. It is also appropriate for your H to admit the affair to your brother's children. As far as his adult children are concerned, they do not need protection from the truth and you can let them know that you are not telling their father anything more than that there was an extremely hurtful affair.

 

^ In fact, if you want to start a list of "must dos" for the process of reconciliation, it sounds to me like the above steps are on the must do list for you. If your H is serious about wanting to reconcile, he will move whatever mountains necessary and comply with everything on your must do (and must NOT do) list.

Edited July 11, 2012 by 16thstreet
Edited to add the "in fact" bit.

[merrmeade]

You are asking for some perspective on two very different questions. I might parse out the blame question (from the attorney vs solo legal and personal issues question) and toss it out there to see what others have experienced.

 

I do not understand this. Can you explain more what you mean by "attorney vs solo legal and personal issues question"? Thank you.

 

One possibility for your brother is simply to disclose to him that you are leaving your H (if that is what you end up doing) because he had an affair and the circumstances around it are so incredibly hurtful that there simply is no hope for reconciliation. Period. You do not have to say to him, H had an affair with your wife and that's why we are getting divorced.

 

Yes, I have thought of this and agree it would be fair and truthful.

 

If you actually go down the path of reconciliation, it is appropriate for your H to disclose to your brother that he had a very hurtful affair (without giving details) and that is or that you and H are going through a very difficult process.

 

I like this and think it sounds honorable, but question what would convince my H that my brother is owed an explanation from him.

 

It is also appropriate for your H to admit the affair to your brother's children. As far as his adult children are concerned, they do not need protection from the truth and you can let them know that you are not telling their father anything more than that there was an extremely hurtful affair.

 

I do think that he very much owes the nephews the truth. The thoughtfulness of making sure they know that H would not be exposing their mother to my B would be key.

 

In fact, if you want to start a list of "must dos" for the process of reconciliation, it sounds to me like the above steps are on the must do list for you. If your H is serious about wanting to reconcile, he will move whatever mountains necessary and comply with everything on your must do (and must NOT do) list.

 

This is great. All of it. However, I do not think for ONE SECOND that my H would agree to any of this easily or quickly. The thing he is most afraid of is having his shame made public. I have thought that these decisions would have to be made in a therapist's office, carefully discussed and agreed to by all. If he did this, it would go a long way toward convincing me that he is serious about changing because this would be so very, very hard for him.

 

Creating a 'must do' list is right on target and will be very helpful to me.

Edited July 12, 2012 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

Uh oh. I think i'm getting sick. One too many sleepless nights.

[merrmeade]

It is also appropriate for your H to admit the affair to your brother's children. As far as his adult children are concerned, they do not need protection from the truth and you can let them know that you are not telling their father anything more than that there was an extremely hurtful affair.

 

So I should tell my B if we separate or divorce and H should tell him if we reconcile.

 

Same for my brother's children? I tell them if we separate/divorce; H tells them if we reconcile.

 

I REALLY like this b/c I was feeling like it would be so hard and unfair for me to have to live with their not knowing the truth and thinking ill of me.

[merrmeade]

Having an attorney who can think of all the negative possibilities for you and protect you can be very helpful (and soul-saving) in what is a very difficult process.

 

In short, there are both personal and legal reasons to consider getting a good divorce attorney. But, I was not in Texas and I do not know the laws or issues that come up in Texas.

 

Concerning your family, it will probably be very difficult for them, but if you decide that you are going to do this you need to keep in mind that you need to do it for yourself. Your children are now adults and the person you need to protect most is yourself.

 

This was very helpful btw, thank you.

[16thstreet]

I do not understand this. Can you explain more what you mean by "attorney vs solo legal and personal issues question"?

 

I should have been more clear. Just meant that asking for perspective about whether to hire an attorney vs asking for perspective about issues such as disclosure to family and such are different enough you could ask them in different threads. It's not important -- they are all questions about filing for divorce.

 

I like this and think it sounds honorable, but question what would convince my H that my brother is owed an explanation from him.

 

That IS the question, isn't it? Is your H motivated enough to make things right by you to move the biggest mountains of his life and let go of his ego?

 

 

This is great. All of it. However, I do not think for ONE SECOND that my H would agree to any of this easily or quickly. The thing he is most afraid of is having his shame made public.

 

Because so much of all of this is wrapped up in his need, from your description, to be loved, accepted, and dotted upon, I do not see how he could made a serious, deep change without letting go and accepting the full consequences of his actions including that people just might not think he's a great stand-up guy. Plus, it is not like you're posting a billboard or a website with his mugshot or shouting from the rooftops "CHEATER!!!". This is about telling a few close family members who are also, in one way or another, directly impacted by his decision. I've read a lot about other people's experiences on LS and the spouses that are able to move on and really heal seem to be the ones where the WS admits to their mistake fully, often to close family and friends.

 

So I should tell my B if we separate or divorce and H should tell him if we reconcile.

 

Same for my brother's children? I tell them if we separate/divorce; H tells them if we reconcile.

 

Ideally your H will find the courage to do it no matter what. But, if he is not able to find the courage or motivation to move this one mountain for you, I am not optimistic about your ability to reconcile. In which case, the default would be an explanation coming from you as to the affair and why you need to step away from your relationship.

 

This was very helpful btw, thank you.

Glad I could help just a bit and you're welcome. My very best wishes to you in your process and especially now, early on, as you start counselling.

[merrmeade]

I had a good day and accomplished some of the above. My H said to me as he got out of the car to go into Home Depot that he's really, really sorry for what he did and then, "I'm really a piece of sh--." Well, the it's-all-about-me approach again really got to me, so while he was inside, I prepared myself and said this when he came back out:

 

First, I gave the speech:

I've been hurt

so

much and unfairly, don't know if I can even look at him after this but am willing to do

MC

and talk about what has happened and what we will do about it.

 

I cannot keep a secret. It makes me crazy, and as you know, I don't lie.

So

I need to tell you what I've been thinking and doing. First of all, [our daughter] knows. (He said, "I figured" in a matter-of-fact way, not sarcastic.) But she is an amazing human being and - though I would not try to represent her thoughts and feelings - she seems okay. I will tell her that I have told you that she knows. It is up to you now how you handle this fact with her; I'

m

not feeding you your lines any more.

 

The counseling is necessary for each and both of us to get out of this whole and functioning. It's also necessary we have that support for how to handle the necessity of disclosure to the family. You and [

sIL

] acted like you could just get out of this abomination with a good-bye and promise from me to protect your dirty secret. The fact of your betrayal is a blow, not only to me, but to my brother and the two families. I should not have to carry that burden alone for the rest of my life for you.

 

If we don't make it and divorce, then I will tell our children, my brother's children and my brother, although I will only tell him that you had an affair and spare him the fact of its being his wife. If we try to reconcile - try - then you will tell them - all of them. The counseling will help us decide how to go about that. It should enable us to survive the trauma and make us better.

 

I told him all that in the parking lot of Home Depot then took him back to work. He was shaking and, when I asked, said he understood. By lunch, I was practically giddy, I felt so free and relieved. I told him how much better I felt when I picked him up. He simply said, "I don't." (I think he meant - I feel bad, I really do, for what I did. He was trying to be more verbal. Two words.)