Happily Married????

[ChynaDoll]

I'm in an EA that has been going on for about seven months. I remember you all telling me not to do it but looking back I was already in too deep as someone had mentioned.

 

It feels like the connection mm and I have is unique, however I know from LS that it's NOT. So, I plan to discuss these things with him but would like an unbiased opinion or even wisdom on what is going on here. I dont understand how I can feel so many different and opposing emotions for one person. How can I love yet resent someone. How can I admire yet despise the same person? How can he love me and yearn to be with me yet allow someone else to dictate to him when he can see me? How can he love me yet lay with and go home to another woman EVERY night?

 

He has previously mentioned that he was happily married. He mentions how happy he is with me and how this could go on forever. (duh! he is eating cake, why would he want to stop). He wants to be the only man in my life. He is the only man I want right now.

 

Every once in a while during conversation he mentions things about his family life, things that I yearn for that I cannot achieve on my own, things that he does for his W that show me he cares, things I cannot afford financially while raising 3 kids on one income, things that his children benefit from because he is there for them and his W. This makes me so jealous. It also confuses me; how could he be so happily married yet want to be with me?

 

What could I possibly offer him that his wife doesn't already do for him?What reason does he have to walk away from his W and family to be with me?

What does he have left to offer me after he fulfills his obligation to his family?

 

When i ponder on these things it leads me to believe this thing is based purely on sex, and I am just an escape for him from the married life. He says he loves me, he wants to be my man. He tries to provide for me and is always asking me what he can do to help me. I don't want to lose him phycally, I dont want to lose the friendship we have; I am very attracted to him and the sex, however, this all confuses me.

 

It seems as if he was in an unhappy marriage, he hated his wife, felt trapped for financial reasons that this affair would make more sense, some sense, any sense. The fact that he seems to be happily married and will do whatever he can to preserve his marriage and 'status' just leads me to believe that either this thing between he and I is a joke or his marriage is a joke....

[MissBee]

I'm in an EA that has been going on for about seven months. I remember you all telling me not to do it but looking back I was already in too deep as someone had mentioned.

 

It feels like the connection mm and I have is unique, however I know from LS that it's NOT. So, I plan to discuss these things with him but would like an unbiased opinion or even wisdom on what is going on here. I dont understand how I can feel so many different and opposing emotions for one person. How can I love yet resent someone. How can I admire yet despise the same person? How can he love me and yearn to be with me yet allow someone else to dictate to him when he can see me? How can he love me yet lay with and go home to another woman EVERY night?

 

He has previously mentioned that he was happily married. He mentions how happy he is with me and how this could go on forever. (duh! he is eating cake, why would he want to stop). He wants to be the only man in my life. He is the only man I want right now.

 

Every once in a while during conversation he mentions things about his family life, things that I yearn for that I cannot achieve on my own, things that he does for his W that show me he cares, things I cannot afford financially while raising 3 kids on one income, things that his children benefit from because he is there for them and his W. This makes me so jealous. It also confuses me; how could he be so happily married yet want to be with me?

 

What could I possibly offer him that his wife doesn't already do for him?What reason does he have to walk away from his W and family to be with me?

What does he have left to offer me after he fulfills his obligation to his family?

 

When i ponder on these things it leads me to believe this thing is based purely on sex, and I am just an escape for him from the married life. He says he loves me, he wants to be my man. He tries to provide for me and is always asking me what he can do to help me. I don't want to lose him phycally, I dont want to lose the friendship we have; I am very attracted to him and the sex, however, this all confuses me.

 

It seems as if he was in an unhappy marriage, he hated his wife, felt trapped for financial reasons that this affair would make more sense, some sense, any sense. The fact that he seems to be happily married and will do whatever he can to preserve his marriage and 'status' just leads me to believe that either this thing between he and I is a joke or his marriage is a joke....

 

 

Hey Chyna,

 

During my A I experienced the same conflicts and confusion. My assumption off the bat of an A was: the person has an unhappy or unsatisfying relationship so they find someone on the outside who makes them happy. I went into the A thinking well this must be the case. However, I asked him flat out, did he love her? And he said he did love her and he loved me too and the two feelings have nothing to do with each other. He said they had a good relationship. I was flooored and gutted My whole reason for the A..thinking our connection was unique and special and better than theirs (hence okay) disappeared. WHY exactly were we doing this then if he was happy, he loved her too, and he thought things were fine??? What was my purpose? That's when I began to see that i was a BONUS. I was never going to "replace" her...I was "in addition to" and also because I was a "later addition" I'd never have as much as what she had with him, especially since she was the mother of his child as well. He chose her as his primary for a reason and unfortunately, that reason didn't change, but I assumed it must have because he was with me. But no... he loved "me too"...in addition to...not over and against.

 

Our relationship wasn't based on sex. I'm sure he cared for me and perhaps loved me in some ways. We were very compatible and there was a lot of sharing and emotions...but the point was that, those things were a bonus. I'm thinking of when you buy your usual shampoo and they add a sample size of a new shampoo they want you to try....you got two for the price of one. You got your old favorite, the usual, the one that's been working for you and a BONUS trial size to spice up the old routine. No commitment necessary with the trial size. It's free and you can use it in tandem with the old. At some point the trial runs out and you may either decide to purchase the full size and do away with the old or decide you prefer your old stuff and not bother with the new OR still, you may continue buying the old and sometimes purchase the new when you want something different in your routine. Most MM are not in the market for a NEW shampoo They may try it for a while, they may even like it, but often in the end they go back to the oldie but goodie.

 

My exAP had a primary life PLUS me. In his mind, nothing was wrong with that. He truly felt like he wasn't hurting his girlfriend and to this day I don't know if she ever found out. His situation was such that he felt like he could be there for her and me and share himself and buy us both valentines day presents and have it all be great. He compartmentalized a great deal and it was also a bit of a fantasy, as he'd avoid some of my logical questions and try to focus on "the moment". When I told him he couldn't have two girlfriends forever, his response was "I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't baby, but as of July 9th 2012 [obviously it was the actual day back then] I want you in my life". He KNEW it was unsustainable, but he wasn't worried. He liked the feelings he had with me and the extra, he didn't want to think about choices and commitment. He was NEVER trying to think about that. He just wanted to enjoy what we had now. I however, just like you, wanted more. I wanted to build, to grow and to be his only romantic priority. Not his bonus.

 

In the culture I'm originally from, what he was doing was no big deal. Men have OW, and although women hate it, they have tolerated it, where instead of holding men to a standard of not cheating, they aspire to be "the wife". That is, the primary woman, who was there first. In the cheating man's code, the idea is that the wife is the Queen and that is the relationship the man is focused on protecting and any OW has to realize this and know her place. "Good OW" are the ones who accept the role and are happy with it and who won't upset the apple cart. It's taken for granted that a man will step out for excitement and something different. That is what I was for my exAP and so it seems with your MM as well. The bonus factor. Maybe if he weren't married already you'd be the main woman. You may genuinely be compatible...but he has someone else already that he isn't trying to trade in, so you're a bonus. We all will be attracted to different people over the course of our lives...even when married. However, the person we choose to make a life with is usually for a good reason and most don't want to give that up for something new and uncertain. The EMR, while nice, is often like a vacation. The 5 star resort may be lovely...but after a while, no matter how nice, you wanna just go home to your own house that you're used to and love, be in your pjs and chill. You know the ins and outs and it's comfortable and YES you even love it and like it and invest in your house and would be distraught to give it up.

 

In many As, certainly mine and the one you're in, it sounds like the OW plays the role of the vacation. Something good, relaxing, enriching, exciting that you like to be able to take, but you are not going to live on a resort forever or sell your home (wife and family and marriage) to go live on a resort.

Edited July 9, 2012 by MissBee

[scatterd]

He is doing this because he can. He can have sex, friendship and with two

Woman. You are allowing it and he must be confident he wont be caught.

I doubt his wife would allow it he is enjoying the excitement of a secret,

fantasy and sneaking around. Only you can make him stop this of course his wife will when he gets caught. Why settle when you deserve a loving relationship with someone who only wants you? Both you and his wife are getting a half man and he gets it all. Why would he not do this he gets it all.

Their is nothing to understand he has two woman that want him. Hes selfish and you know he lies to his wife. You can do so much better. Good luck!

[ChynaDoll]

Miss Bee I agree with everything you said. He thinks he can pull off being there for both her and I and doesnt see anything wrong with that.

 

You're also right about:

He chose her as his primary and although his actions may lead me to believe otherwise those feelings have not changed. I think he believes he will not get caught and therefore he is not risking anything.

 

I think he will throw me under the bus at his convenience to save his marriage and everything he has built with his W. I knew this going in, heck I was even warned by you guys that I was playing with fire. I understand that he will never leave his wife. I already knew he would not leave her going into this, and I was cool with it. I compartmentalized it in my own way and convinced myself I didnt care about the future and just wanted live in the moment and enjoy the fun we have.

 

I think once he professed his love for me I thought maybe something had changed, although I know deep inside it hasnt and he just didnt want to share me the same way I am sharing him. He started to become very affectionate towards me and I could tell he was making a serious effort to be there for me and support me emotionally.

 

He claims he cant leave her because she will take him to the cleaners. He claims he does all the loving and husbandly things for her in order to keep home happy so he can spend time with me. However these things only come out when he is pleading his case for me to not see other people. He claims that I am the only woman he has been with since he stopped having sex with his W at the beginning of her 2nd trimester. Even if that is true, it will not be for long if he is happily married.

He also has the excuse that I wouldnt want to be with him full time anyway (which is true: i could never trust him).

 

so then why am I torn? I agreed to not see other people and allow him to be my man. Basically giving him all of me and starting to depend on him. I have been insisting it was a bad idea b/c he will be forced to reject me at some point to protect his marriage, I will then blow a gasket and he will lose me completely. He seems to think this won't happen or is willing to risk it so he can have what he wants for the time being. I didnt know what else to do, wasnt ready to give him up so I am agreeing to let him be 'my man' wait for him to fail and hope that hurt and rejection is enough to force me to leave him.

[ChynaDoll]

Scatterd:

 

You are right, both me and his W are getting half a man and he gets it all.

 

He is selfish, and I can do better, but... he is the one I want right now.

[2sure]

He has everything he wants at home, he just wants more. Something secret just for himself, that costs him nothing.

[2sure]

Why is the little he offers you all you want?

[ChynaDoll]

Why is the little he offers you all you want?

 

It is not all I want, but I do want what little he has to offer as opposed to walking away. I know I want and deserve more ultimately but that doesnt have to be right now.

[ac11442]

I was in the same position as you. My xMM said he was happy at home. That things had never been better and he would do whatever it took to not disrupt his marriage. We went through several episodes of her finding out about us and not speaking for a bit then getting back together like nothing had changed. This went on for 3 years.

 

We are currently on day 33 of nc. I know it's for the best but it still hurts terribly. And it was more than sex, although that part was great! We live several hours apart so we only saw each other every month or so, so our relationship was literally mostly about friendship.

 

I had the same questions you do: was our relationship a sham or is his marriage. Honestly? It's his marriage. If you truly love someone the way you're supposed to you don't have affairs. I was married twice. Cheated on my first husband, realized I didn't love him like I should have (we didn't fight, we got along great) and I left him. I left because 1) I knew it was wrong to cheat and if I was able to I shouldn't be married to him. And 2) I wanted more out of life than to just not be miserable. To me personal happiness was a lot more important than what others thought. I was married again and never once thought about cheating. Not once. I can't say the same for him. Karma.

 

My xMM has the 'perfect marriage'. They go to church twice a week, two kids in a good college, respected in the community, and both come from families where NO ONE has ever gotten a divorce. Except, of course, the one cousin, and he is talked about relentlessly at family events. He says he's happy because they don't have a horrible relationship. But if he was happy he wouldn't even consider having an affair. Period. And she knows about me, she knows we've had sex in their house, he's spent time at mine, has met my kids, we talked every day, including when they were on family vacations. And she chooses to stay. Why? For the same reasons he does. It would be too hard to leave. Giving up a house, the 23 year marriage, any standing in the community, friends, church, everything. And for what? To possibly be happy? Honestly happy? To them, both of them, it isn't worth it.

 

I heard something on TV today that, although fictional, was dead on. A guy had been cheating on his wife. When someone asked if he was going to leave her he said no, he couldn't do that to her, hurt her like that, be that selfish. She asked if he was going to cheat again, he said he didn't know. Her reply was "Well, isn't THAT being selfish?" Yes, yes it is. I hear this a lot from not only my xMM but from other men as well. They don't want to hurt their w's. They can't be that selfish. They stay for the kids. Whatever. But what they don't realize is that by staying in a less than satisfying relationship they are not only denying themselves of something better, but denying their spouse. When I divorced my first husband I no only freed myself, but gave him the chance to find someone that would love him the way he deserved to be. And when my second husband left me, although I was devastated at the time, I realized that he didn't love me like I wanted to be loved. I wanted more than 'okay'.

 

So if you're MM says he's happy at home he probably is. And your A wasn't a sham. You probably are more compatible and quite possibly are someone he would have a long honestly happy life with. But the reality is he is too weak to stand up and make the decision. It's easier to stay.

[chalkfarm]

I was in the same position as you. My xMM said he was happy at home. That things had never been better and he would do whatever it took to not disrupt his marriage. We went through several episodes of her finding out about us and not speaking for a bit then getting back together like nothing had changed. This went on for 3 years.

 

We are currently on day 33 of nc. I know it's for the best but it still hurts terribly. And it was more than sex, although that part was great! We live several hours apart so we only saw each other every month or so, so our relationship was literally mostly about friendship.

 

I had the same questions you do: was our relationship a sham or is his marriage. Honestly? It's his marriage. If you truly love someone the way you're supposed to you don't have affairs. I was married twice. Cheated on my first husband, realized I didn't love him like I should have (we didn't fight, we got along great) and I left him. I left because 1) I knew it was wrong to cheat and if I was able to I shouldn't be married to him. And 2) I wanted more out of life than to just not be miserable. To me personal happiness was a lot more important than what others thought. I was married again and never once thought about cheating. Not once. I can't say the same for him. Karma.

 

My xMM has the 'perfect marriage'. They go to church twice a week, two kids in a good college, respected in the community, and both come from families where NO ONE has ever gotten a divorce. Except, of course, the one cousin, and he is talked about relentlessly at family events. He says he's happy because they don't have a horrible relationship. But if he was happy he wouldn't even consider having an affair. Period. And she knows about me, she knows we've had sex in their house, he's spent time at mine, has met my kids, we talked every day, including when they were on family vacations. And she chooses to stay. Why? For the same reasons he does. It would be too hard to leave. Giving up a house, the 23 year marriage, any standing in the community, friends, church, everything. And for what? To possibly be happy? Honestly happy? To them, both of them, it isn't worth it.

 

I heard something on TV today that, although fictional, was dead on. A guy had been cheating on his wife. When someone asked if he was going to leave her he said no, he couldn't do that to her, hurt her like that, be that selfish. She asked if he was going to cheat again, he said he didn't know. Her reply was "Well, isn't THAT being selfish?" Yes, yes it is. I hear this a lot from not only my xMM but from other men as well. They don't want to hurt their w's. They can't be that selfish. They stay for the kids. Whatever. But what they don't realize is that by staying in a less than satisfying relationship they are not only denying themselves of something better, but denying their spouse. When I divorced my first husband I no only freed myself, but gave him the chance to find someone that would love him the way he deserved to be. And when my second husband left me, although I was devastated at the time, I realized that he didn't love me like I wanted to be loved. I wanted more than 'okay'.

 

So if you're MM says he's happy at home he probably is. And your A wasn't a sham. You probably are more compatible and quite possibly are someone he would have a long honestly happy life with. But the reality is he is too weak to stand up and make the decision. It's easier to stay.

 

Wow. This is a really important post for many XOW to read. Your perspective is unique and honest. Thank you for taking the time to share it.

[seren]

You say they haven't had sex since her 2nd trimester, does this mean she is pregnant and near to giving birth? May have read wrong or misunderstood.

[ChynaDoll]

THIS!

 

Why are you doing this to yourself ChynaDoll?

I think it is ok as long as I maintain control over the situation by understanding exactly what I'm dealing with instead of what he feeds me.

 

Seems you've got a pretty good grasp on why he is doing what he is doing and he isn't going to change anything, so why are you inviting this pain into your life and why do you think it will hurt less later han now?

 

Because I am in too deep, do not want to stop right now since I enjoy the time we do spend together. I don't have a reason compelling enough to walk away right now. That may be the problem. There are also a few benefits to having a part time lover I will never have to commit to.

 

You are allowing him to run your life, tell you who you can see, why?

 

This A is on my terms, I may be doing what he wants but I am agreeing to do so, he is not forcing me. I am agreeing as long as I get what I want / can get from him. He does not run any aspect of my life the way I see it. When he tries to, I tell him to save it for his wife.

 

Just my 2 cents but the longer you stay in a messed up relationship like this, the more damage you are going to do to yourself.

 

It is a messed up relationship obviously, and basically, I am not fed up with it... YET. I think If I leave him once I get fed up and am pissed with him I will no longer want him and it will be easier. Thats part of the reason I agreed to not see other people. You want to be my man? Fine. I will expect you to be there everytime I need you and WHEN you fail, I'm going to get pissed and walk away. I think it'll be easier that way.

 

You say they haven't had sex since her 2nd trimester, does this mean she is pregnant and near to giving birth? May have read wrong or misunderstood.

 

yea the baby is almost two months by now, so if they havent resumed their sex life I'm sure they have by now if it ever ceased. I dont really care what he does with his W. Thats their problem. Sex is something happily married ppl do... they have sex... they also apparently have unprotected sex with their OW and potentially expose their innocent spouse and unborn child to whatever I have....

[ChynaDoll]

 

Wow...........cold, very cold!

 

Your so called control is an illusion that you are allowing yourself and your disregard of another woman is alarming.

 

HIS disregard for his WIFE is alarming. I dont owe her anything. Why should I be more concerned about his W than he is, that is his decision and his responsibility, not mine.

 

I know my control over the situation is limited as I can only control myself and the way I react to others, and there are two other parties involved which I have no control over.

 

I am posting here in order to learn. I understand my perspective is clouded. I would like to respectfully ask what besides the disregard for his W which all OW have to have to some degree in order to participate in an EA, is cold?

[skywriter]

He claims that I am the only woman he has been with since he stopped having sex with his W at the beginning of her 2nd trimester. Even if that is true, it will not be for long if he is happily married.

 

 

Yea, I remember hearing , "this is my first affair", and "you are the only woman I've been with other than my W".

 

None of which was true. He was calling one of my girlfriends that didn't know I was having an A with him.

 

This only came out because she innocently confided in me.

 

I'm sorry, if I'm jaded, but I believe this now, "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you".

[KathyM]

I'm in an EA that has been going on for about seven months. I remember you all telling me not to do it but looking back I was already in too deep as someone had mentioned.

 

It feels like the connection mm and I have is unique, however I know from LS that it's NOT. So, I plan to discuss these things with him but would like an unbiased opinion or even wisdom on what is going on here. I dont understand how I can feel so many different and opposing emotions for one person. How can I love yet resent someone. How can I admire yet despise the same person? How can he love me and yearn to be with me yet allow someone else to dictate to him when he can see me? How can he love me yet lay with and go home to another woman EVERY night?

 

He has previously mentioned that he was happily married. He mentions how happy he is with me and how this could go on forever. (duh! he is eating cake, why would he want to stop). He wants to be the only man in my life. He is the only man I want right now.

 

Every once in a while during conversation he mentions things about his family life, things that I yearn for that I cannot achieve on my own, things that he does for his W that show me he cares, things I cannot afford financially while raising 3 kids on one income, things that his children benefit from because he is there for them and his W. This makes me so jealous. It also confuses me; how could he be so happily married yet want to be with me?

 

What could I possibly offer him that his wife doesn't already do for him?What reason does he have to walk away from his W and family to be with me?

What does he have left to offer me after he fulfills his obligation to his family?

 

When i ponder on these things it leads me to believe this thing is based purely on sex, and I am just an escape for him from the married life. He says he loves me, he wants to be my man. He tries to provide for me and is always asking me what he can do to help me. I don't want to lose him phycally, I dont want to lose the friendship we have; I am very attracted to him and the sex, however, this all confuses me.

 

It seems as if he was in an unhappy marriage, he hated his wife, felt trapped for financial reasons that this affair would make more sense, some sense, any sense. The fact that he seems to be happily married and will do whatever he can to preserve his marriage and 'status' just leads me to believe that either this thing between he and I is a joke or his marriage is a joke....

He has made a joke of both relationships. He has a dishonest relationship with his wife. That's not a good marriage--it's a dishonest one. A fake relationship, based on lies. Your relationship with him is also a joke, since you have to keep it a secret, and since it is only based on sex. If he actually cared about either one of you, he would chose to be with the one he loved and leave the other. You can't love someone and continually deceive and hurt them. That's not love. That's selfishness. You can't love someone, and then go home to someone else and be a husband to them. What he loves is himself, and satisfying his own selfish desires. You would be wise to see this man as a whole person, and not just the things you like about him. Why do you settle for crumbs when you could have a man who will devote all of his love and attention on you alone? Why share a man with someone else? You're cheating yourself out of a real and honest relationship when you accept crumbs from a married man. The sooner you get this cheater out of your life, the sooner you can find someone who can be the man you want him to be--someone who only has eyes for you. Someone who only loves you as his partner. Someone that is not dividing his time between two women, and only giving a small piece to either one. Don't you think it's time to want more for yourself than just a partial relationship that is based in secrecy and deception? Wouldn't you rather have a real relationship, and not a deceitful one, with someone who can be there for you completely and honestly? Think about what you want out of life, and then make your choices based on that. Certainly, you would want more than just a partial and deceptive relationship that has to remain hidden. Also, think of the type of man you would want to have ultimately. Is someone who would cheat on his wife and lie to and deceive her while claiming to love her someone you can build a life with? Someone you can trust? Someone who you can respect? Of course not.

[scatterd]

The longer you wait the more this will hurt. He has nothing to offer you he is

too afraid of loosing everything from wife. I know you are in love but all you are doing is prolonging the inevitable. Think of what you could have like a man to your self that loves only you. Someone that wont lie and will give you

a home and future. In order to do this you need to let go which means NC.

It is not easy but in the long run it is rewarding. Think about this write down a list of the good and bad. I wish you well and I feel for you. Do what will make you happy. Big Hugs!

[MissBee]

Chyna isn't that delusional. In her first post she has admitted the pitfalls and some of her own inner wisdom about the situation. We all know the truth about our situations deep down...it's usually in hindsight though, where we can truly say "yes, yes, I knew".

 

I think right now though she wants it: the attention, affectionate, companionship, whatever this brings in spite of the larger reality. If I'm not mistaken, she wants MM to hurt her she says, so that she can learn. And perhaps that is what needs to happen.

 

It would be better if we could opt out before that...but sometimes we can't. Sometimes we want to hope our intuition is wrong or hope for a miracle, so nothing deters us and it's only getting smacked against the brick wall that we learn.

 

I do think the situation is a mess....buttt I've been in messes too that no one could have talked me out of. I would have defended that mess to the death....and sometimes did But I had to touch fire to know it burns.So perhaps Chyna needs to allow this to play out and if and when it does come tumbling down, she learn and choose differently for herself next time around.

[ChynaDoll]

Don't you think it's time to want more for yourself than just a partial relationship that is based in secrecy and deception? Wouldn't you rather have a real relationship, and not a deceitful one, with someone who can be there for you completely and honestly?

 

I would rather have a real relationship one day, but am not interested in that right now. I am interested in some of the other things a man can do for me but not if I have to commit. I like my freedom. I'm fed up with 'real' relationships. I've wasted pretty much my entire adult life on "real" relationships. On Marriage. This is the first relationship where I give a rats ass what the man I am with thinks about me because I know we will never be in a 'real' relationship. It's twisted but freeing to be myself and not worry about if or why it won't work out.

 

Think about what you want out of life, and then make your choices based on that. Certainly, you would want more than just a partial and deceptive relationship that has to remain hidden. Also, think of the type of man you would want to have ultimately. Is someone who would cheat on his wife and lie to and deceive her while claiming to love her someone you can build a life with? Someone you can trust? Someone who you can respect? Of course not.

 

I do want these things, I just know my mm is NOT the one that will be able to give them to me. He has clearly demonstrated his ability to lie and deceive those who trust him and many other character flaws that are deal breakers. He is good for some things just not 'marriage material'. Even when we know a person is not marriage material, I dont think it rules out the possibility of having some type of meaningful relationship with them.

 

I'm just trying to figure out if that is even possible? Is there any point to what I am doing or is it all a joke? I know I am wasting some time with him but was hoping it wont be a complete waste. Just like his marriage may be a sham if there is room for me, but I'm sure there are some good things that came from it. I dont know! I am here for guidance

[ChynaDoll]

He claims that I am the only woman he has been with since he stopped having sex with his W at the beginning of her 2nd trimester. Even if that is true, it will not be for long if he is happily married.

 

Yea, I remember hearing , "this is my first affair", and "you are the only woman I've been with other than my W".

 

He has tried to tell me I am his 2nd affiar and his first affair is the one I already knew about. I dont buy it. On our first date, he says "she knew what she married when she married me". Implying she knows he steps out and married him anyway. He also told me that the pregnancy was the ONLY reason he was not sleeping with his wife. It's like he was honest with me in the beginning b/c he didnt care, but now he wants to keep me around so the story has changed.

 

I'm sorry, if I'm jaded, but I believe this now, "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you".

 

Very True and not Jaded IMO!

[2sure]

OP - when I read your posts and descriptions , I am reminded of a place in my life that I once was. I looked back through the threads, and for what its worth...a previous post of my own in an old thread:

 

I am definitely in the "reformed" category. As such I can sincerely say that Not being an OW comes from 2 places: Hindsight or the sense not to do it in the first place. I really dont think it is a good idea for anyone. I will go further and say that 90% of the OW here who think they are comfortable with the circumstances ...are kidding & short changing themselves. I know its tough to hear, I know they dont believe it. But I was that OW who thought : I wasnt the one cheating, I never made promises, its harmless, I dont want the MM to leave, its convenient for me, its just for sex, I'm in control.

 

All justifications for accepting less than other people would. The only thing in your control is you are hurting yourself as opposed to someone else doing it.

 

So, like I said its all hindsight, its 20/20 and it doesnt help anyone else.

 

The OW that come to LS and want to defend their positions...are simply looking for a place to add verbiage to their - for the most part - intangible relationship.

 

I will not dog anyone here for their choices, I am in no position to do that - but if I'm honest , I would ask any OW to look deep and figure out what it is about themselves that makes them feel they should accept less and what about themselves projects to MM that she will?

[ChynaDoll]

OP - when I read your posts and descriptions , I am reminded of a place in my life that I once was. I looked back through the threads, and for what its worth...a previous post of my own in an old thread:

 

I am definitely in the "reformed" category. As such I can sincerely say that Not being an OW comes from 2 places: Hindsight or the sense not to do it in the first place. I really dont think it is a good idea for anyone. I will go further and say that 90% of the OW here who think they are comfortable with the circumstances ...are kidding & short changing themselves. I know its tough to hear, I know they dont believe it. But I was that OW who thought : I wasnt the one cheating, I never made promises, its harmless, I dont want the MM to leave, its convenient for me, its just for sex, I'm in control.

 

All justifications for accepting less than other people would. The only thing in your control is you are hurting yourself as opposed to someone else doing it.

 

So, like I said its all hindsight, its 20/20 and it doesnt help anyone else.

 

The OW that come to LS and want to defend their positions...are simply looking for a place to add verbiage to their - for the most part - intangible relationship.

 

I will not dog anyone here for their choices, I am in no position to do that - but if I'm honest , I would ask any OW to look deep and figure out what it is about themselves that makes them feel they should accept less and what about themselves projects to MM that she will?

 

Hi 2Sure,

 

Thanks for your input. I think about this often. My answer is I do not accept it. It is tearing me apart. I know he will never leave the life and family he has built with his W, which I am ok with. What torments me is how silly I feel for wanting a person that has traits I despise.

 

However, I think the question is why would I tolerate or allow it at all? My answer to that would be I made a mistake, and was expecting to have fun and walk away when I felt like it. I'm hard headed. I was also raised in a household where my mother tolerated alot worse so this is normal for me.

 

I also do not see anything wrong with dating or being with some one that is Mr. Right now, and not Mr. Right. Apparently this way of thinking has opened the door for these losers to occupy my time in the first place. There are usually some things I am willing to tolerate until I find Mr. Right. Perhaps the best advice I was never given or taught was 'not to give any man the time of day if you do not see a future with him.' I was taught that marriage is something you do not jump into, it is something I see black men avoid, it is something that seems to ruin many lives when they do not go as planned. Marriage has some financial benefits, and provides stability as well as companionship, legal protection and a partner to share life's responsibilities with.

 

 

As far as projecting this willingness to accept less; I would say that is something that a man will pick up on once you crossed or allowed him to cross that boundary that mm/mw should cross. Idk, this is my opinion which is obviously flawed...

[KathyM]

I would rather have a real relationship one day, but am not interested in that right now. I am interested in some of the other things a man can do for me but not if I have to commit. I like my freedom. I'm fed up with 'real' relationships. I've wasted pretty much my entire adult life on "real" relationships. On Marriage. This is the first relationship where I give a rats ass what the man I am with thinks about me because I know we will never be in a 'real' relationship. It's twisted but freeing to be myself and not worry about if or why it won't work out.

 

 

 

I do want these things, I just know my mm is NOT the one that will be able to give them to me. He has clearly demonstrated his ability to lie and deceive those who trust him and many other character flaws that are deal breakers. He is good for some things just not 'marriage material'. Even when we know a person is not marriage material, I dont think it rules out the possibility of having some type of meaningful relationship with them.

 

I'm just trying to figure out if that is even possible? Is there any point to what I am doing or is it all a joke? I know I am wasting some time with him but was hoping it wont be a complete waste. Just like his marriage may be a sham if there is room for me, but I'm sure there are some good things that came from it. I dont know! I am here for guidance

If what you want is a casual relationship because you're not ready for anything serious right now, then those types of relationships are readily available with single men. You shouldn't let this guy use you to cheat on his wife. You don't need him, and he doesn't deserve to have either of you ladies. Guys like that deserve to be alone.

[It's Just Me]

This is going to sound totally lame, but... the movie "When Harry Met Sally" came out at a very impressionable time in my life (1989). Sally (Meg Ryan) and Marie (Carrie Fisher, the OW) have this exchange:

 

Marie: I don't think he's ever going to leave her.

Sally: I know he's never going to leave her.

Marie: You're right, you're right. I know you're right. (She repeats this, throughout the movie - it becomes a running joke.)

 

After seeing that movie, I swore to myself that I would never be Marie, being a second fiddle, waiting for my married man to leave his wife. A bit simplistic, but still... it made a huge impression. That movie came out in 1989, when I was almost 25. After that, when I was single, and whenever a married man made a play for me (no matter how innocent or not, and yes, it did happen), Marie's words and pain would come back to me, in a flash - enough for me to ignore the offer and move on.

 

I'm now 47, and to this day, have never even considered getting involved with a married man - thanks to that movie.

 

Weird.

[alexandria35]

Hi 2Sure,

 

Thanks for your input. I think about this often. My answer is I do not accept it. It is tearing me apart. I know he will never leave the life and family he has built with his W, which I am ok with. What torments me is how silly I feel for wanting a person that has traits I despise.

 

However, I think the question is why would I tolerate or allow it at all? My answer to that would be I made a mistake, and was expecting to have fun and walk away when I felt like it. I'm hard headed. I was also raised in a household where my mother tolerated alot worse so this is normal for me.

 

I also do not see anything wrong with dating or being with some one that is Mr. Right now, and not Mr. Right. Apparently this way of thinking has opened the door for these losers to occupy my time in the first place. There are usually some things I am willing to tolerate until I find Mr. Right. Perhaps the best advice I was never given or taught was 'not to give any man the time of day if you do not see a future with him.' I was taught that marriage is something you do not jump into, it is something I see black men avoid, it is something that seems to ruin many lives when they do not go as planned. Marriage has some financial benefits, and provides stability as well as companionship, legal protection and a partner to share life's responsibilities with.

 

 

As far as projecting this willingness to accept less; I would say that is something that a man will pick up on once you crossed or allowed him to cross that boundary that mm/mw should cross. Idk, this is my opinion which is obviously flawed...

 

You will never meet Mr. Right while you are wasting your time with Mr. Right now. You said you have agreed to not see other men while involved with MM, so how exactly will you find Mr. Right? You may have missed several opportunities with several Mr. Rights over your lifetime because you were too focused on good times with a Mr. Right now.

[ac11442]

This is going to sound totally lame, but... the movie "When Harry Met Sally" came out at a very impressionable time in my life (1989). Sally (Meg Ryan) and Marie (Carrie Fisher, the OW) have this exchange:

 

Marie: I don't think he's ever going to leave her.

Sally: I know he's never going to leave her.

Marie: You're right, you're right. I know you're right. (She repeats this, throughout the movie - it becomes a running joke.)

 

After seeing that movie, I swore to myself that I would never be Marie, being a second fiddle, waiting for my married man to leave his wife. A bit simplistic, but still... it made a huge impression. That movie came out in 1989, when I was almost 25. After that, when I was single, and whenever a married man made a play for me (no matter how innocent or not, and yes, it did happen), Marie's words and pain would come back to me, in a flash - enough for me to ignore the offer and move on.

 

I'm now 47, and to this day, have never even considered getting involved with a married man - thanks to that movie.

 

Weird.

 

Too funny! I remember that all to well myself.

"I just happened to see a receipt in his briefcase for a new dining room table. Why is he buying a new dining room table for his wife? He's never going to leave her."

"We all know he's never going to leave her."

"You're right, you're right, I'm know you're right" followed by a head slap. Ha!

 

I wish, like you, I had headed the warning, though. I didn't and I'm paying for it. I also remember that Marie ended up with Jess in the long run and all was right with the world. Hopefully I end up finding that as well.

 

I was in high school when the movie came out. I watch it all the time still. And yes, the Marie quotes are a little bit of a running joke with me and my friend that knows I am the OW. If you can't laugh at yourself....