Lowered Expectations vs. Settling

July 8, 2012

I feel sad for so many OW who are still waiting and hoping . I knew for me I could never settle - and yep, I believe there are so many who settle, but will state that they aren't. I want him physically in my life, not at the other end of a computer or another continent away. Nope, for me it's in person. Who wants to live a life miles away from the one they claim to love? That isn't life - that's coexisting. Many OW with long distance affairs say they are the main one when in reality, since the Mm is still with the wide, she is the main one living life with him - experiencing a rainbow, a beautiful sunny day, watching a storm roll in, etc. that's life - that's living - to me.

I think a LD A is the easiest A to sustain indefinitely, for many obvious reasons.

It also can cultivate a sense of not settling or being in a regular relationship...as it seems more justifiable to say, well even if he weren't married, he'd still be far away, we still would only see each other sometimes, we still would mostly talk by phone, text, email IM etc. So in that sense one may truly feel like it's not that different and his M is irrelevant.

July 8, 2012

Thanks. Maybe I just have too much ego :o:o . In conclusion I guess I am not a material for being OW, or mistress type of person.

And perhaps it is suited for only certain types of personalities....

Perhaps some people can truly do it for all eternity or serially, and not feel any conflict, while some aren't cut out for the job and will thus feel more conflicted and more like they're settling.

July 8, 2012

Thanks. Maybe I just have too much ego :o:o . In conclusion I guess I am not a material for being OW, or mistress type of person.

No, not ego..You have self respect.

July 8, 2012

While your guy eventually took the plunge and valued you enough to do so...

Miss Bee, I've gained a LOT of perspective in the last year or so. Even when I was actively and knowingly participating in an affair I wasn't what I would call pro-affair. No aspect of it excited me. The relationship excited me but lots of the stereotypical attractions of an affair were lost on me. I wear my heart on my sleeve, sadly, and hated certain factors.

But something clicked in me when you wrote the above. I waited a year for him to truly embrace our relationship on the terms I wanted. Over a year, in fact. I wanted what I wanted. But prior to that he dipped out on me. Twice. And both times he lost a grip on his life to a degree, he was lost, torn, heartbroken. He was ill and even off work sick. He really didn't function well during those times yet *still* struggled to deal with his '****' and do what I needed him to do.

I'm angry with him for the way he behaved, even now, but one thing I will say is that him leaving his wife was not the proof he loved me. He loved me hard all the way through. Him leaving his wife was to please me, was to keep me in his life because otherwise I was going off with someone else, but it wasn't merely because he loved me, because he'd always loved me.

I guess I'd never noticed the distinction before, and I did that 'if you loved me' thing more than once. I could NOT NOT NOT see how he could live a lie with her if he truly loved me, but now I do see. I don't support or condone it, in fact I find it quite repulsive, but it does happen.

July 8, 2012

Thanks MissBee and LadyGrey....I always have the "queen" or "princess" mindset until I had A with the MM, I feel like I am a low-life(!). Can you imagine the MM had to leave me when we were hanging out because his wife was calling him to pick her up at the usual time, he had to leave and I felt like $#^&:sick:.

I could not handle the treatment, even though I knew that from the beginning as the MM and myself have to be very cautiously/discreet so that no one would find out the A. But again I can not do it, I am not that OW kind of person type.

Mount, I'm so proud of you...and why can't you be a Queen?? . I know I treat my man like a king and so have noooo guilt about expecting a man who treats me the same. You shouldn't either. You shouldn't talk yourself out of good treatment and having what you need and want. You shouldn't feel like asking for an out in the open relationship that you can build on is only for queens and the fortunate...it's for everyone! Every woman wants to be important to her man and feel like the Queen of his metaphorical castle.

I'm glad you love yourself more. i think it is a perverted love where one person allows the other to have all THEY want and what is convenient for THEM...but it is not reciprocated. You want a man who meets your needs and you his. Not where he kinda meets your needs and if not, you should just change your needs. Baloney!

Good luck to you in your healing

July 8, 2012

By the way, he's not happily married and he does not have 5 kids. Please refrain from speaking of that which you do not know.

Yeah..it was actually six kids wasn't it? And i"m sure at least a couple of them have to be over 14 yrs old by now

July 8, 2012

I cried for a week, thinking I could not have him. What I didn't realize was that this was rekindled love and that a force too strong to stop had already taken hold of our lives. If you have not experienced rekindled love, MissBee, and I doubt you have since I believe you are only 26?, you have no way of understanding how overwhelmingly powerful these emotions are. It was and is absolutely wonderful.

Yeah MissBee. Stop being so fricken immature. LOLOLOL

July 8, 2012

Miss Bee, I've gained a LOT of perspective in the last year or so. Even when I was actively and knowingly participating in an affair I wasn't what I would call pro-affair. No aspect of it excited me. The relationship excited me but lots of the stereotypical attractions of an affair were lost on me. I wear my heart on my sleeve, sadly, and hated certain factors.

But something clicked in me when you wrote the above. I waited a year for him to truly embrace our relationship on the terms I wanted. Over a year, in fact. I wanted what I wanted. But prior to that he dipped out on me. Twice. And both times he lost a grip on his life to a degree, he was lost, torn, heartbroken. He was ill and even off work sick. He really didn't function well during those times yet *still* struggled to deal with his '****' and do what I needed him to do.

I'm angry with him for the way he behaved, even now, but one thing I will say is that him leaving his wife was not the proof he loved me. He loved me hard all the way through. Him leaving his wife was to please me, was to keep me in his life because otherwise I was going off with someone else, but it wasn't merely because he loved me, because he'd always loved me.

I guess I'd never noticed the distinction before, and I did that 'if you loved me' thing more than once. I could NOT NOT NOT see how he could live a lie with her if he truly loved me, but now I do see. I don't support or condone it, in fact I find it quite repulsive, but it does happen.

Yea I said he valued you..and I think that is very important versus feeling like you love someone.

I think: love as a feeling that doesn't spark actions is useful to what degree? I'm glad you love me in your heart, but then what?

But the fact that he valued you more than whatever else he had going on and was torn about and that high value lead to different actions is what is worthwhile, to me anyway, besides just feeling love for you in a more intangible sense that doesn't result in a situation conducive to growing your relationship.

Hence my mantra that love needs to come with the right circumstances or with people willing to create the right environment...or else why pursue it?

Edited July 8, 2012 by MissBee

July 8, 2012

ever get to a point where you simply realized no change would be made, so you just transformed your initial expectations and desires?

Did lowered expectations really amount in less pain for you or were you just unable to lower your expectations and the hurt so opted out?

No. Changes were made in line with changing expectations. There was never any settling or hurt.

July 8, 2012

Yea I said he valued you..and I think that is very important versus feeling like you love someone.

I think: love as a feeling that doesn't spark actions is useful to what degree? I'm glad you love me in your heart, but then what?

But the fact that he valued you more than whatever else he had going on and was torn about and that high value lead to different actions is what is worthwhile, to me anyway, besides just feeling love for you in a more intangible sense that doesn't result in a situation conducive to growing your relationship.

Hence my mantra that love needs to come with the right circumstances or with people willing to create the right environment...or else why pursue it?

I do hear you. I've had this signature for a long ol' time now. Love isn't enough, for me.

July 9, 2012

The difference between experience and belief.

My beliefs dictate my experiences and shape them.

I have experienced perverse love to know what it is. And at one point I used the rhetoric of universal forces, twin flames, soul ties etc to talk about that perverse love. I grew in experience to realize how very very off I was. That experienced changed my beliefs.

All of us have beliefs we subscribe to that then influence our actions and what we consider good/bad etc...your idea of a wonderful force is not mine and not many others' either, and that is okay. As i said, if it is so wonderful for you...enjoy. I choose something different entirely.

Edited July 9, 2012 by MissBee

July 9, 2012

Thanks. This was what I was getting at. What for some is settling, for others is not. Thus noone but you yourself can say whether you are settling or not. Telling someone else they are settling is very degrading and judgmental.

One can see when someone's stated desires do not match their situation and one can therefore make that observation and judgment.

My friend says she wants marriage and kids and wants MM to provide her with that...he can't...she stays hoping and then says oh never mind, she will be a second wife.

Anyone with reasonable mental aptitude and who understands humans can realize despite her new story, she is settling. She probably will be defensive and not agree...but last I checked someone agreeing/disagreeing with you about their behavior that you're observing doesn't validate its truthfulness. Alcoholics will swear all day they are fine as they destroy their lives and family, and when friends point it out they say you don't know anything and you can't tell them...needless to say, no one needs their approval and sign off to realize that what they say and do are at odds.

I think what you say about what you want and then how you have coped with that is settling. I can think that if I want. I am free to feel like that is the case. I never tried to convince you into agreeing..you don't have to and I know you won't. But I can still think it though based on my conceptualization. As long as I don't beat you over your head about it, which I don't with you or my real life friend..then that's what matters.

July 9, 2012

I have several reasons to believe you are in your twenties, and actually specifically 26. Unless told otherwise I will continue to believe so.

Lol um okay, is that so?

You can hold whatever beliefs you'd like in that regard, as I'm not sure what that has to do with anything really. All I'm saying is: we all state certain facts here that others can bring up if they want to at a later time. If you don't want anyone to talk about facts of your situation...don't bring it up. But it's silly to bring up your own believed "facts" about other people while at the same time asking someone else not top do the same to you.

July 9, 2012

Telling someone else they are settling is very degrading and judgmental.

Degrading and judgmental?

Denial of ones situation can be heartbreaking to those watching a person change and become someone they aren't.

I watched a loved one slowly lose themselves in an affair. It almost destroyed her.

Degrading? What was degrading was watching her settle on a man unworthy of her.

Judgmental? Watching her judge herself as if becoming someone better, someone 'good enough' for him to leave his wife.

Real love was wrapping her in my arms and letting her know she was settling.

Settling - a truly degrading state to be in.

With age comes wisdom, I always use to say, then I 'met' MissBee through her words, such wisdom is in that 'babes' heart. Blessed she is.

July 9, 2012

Ah, but you do, which this thread with its title is a perfect example of. I do hope you treat your friend better.

Trinity this thread isn't about you. I apologize if you feel that way, but I assure you and said it before, it isn't. Your comments sparked new thoughts and a new thread. No one is asking YOU to explain yourself...you chose to do so. I asked questions for anyone to respond to.

Unless you can show me and itemize all the times I have beat you over your head about you settling...then it's a false and asinine accusation I truly don't care about what you choose to do..but so long as I am on LS if something is interesting to discuss, whether it was a comment you or another made, I'll discuss it. That's how a forum works.

Anyway no further derailing to talk about what you think about me or not...we can PM for that

July 9, 2012

Then I'll provide proof (unless you are lying in this post of course):

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/298178-so-where-single-men#post3631265

So "early 20s" apparently. Not 26 then. Even younger.

When I was that age I was out having fun, not spending my time telling middle-age women what's what.

LOL

Trinity...when have I lied about my age? Thank you for proving my age to me??? How exactly have you proven that I am 26? In any case I think it is pointless and nonsensical to have an argument about my age...what does this really have to do with anything?

I could care less what you did in your twenties hon. I'm doing far more than many middle aged women are and apparently some of them don't like that at all

July 9, 2012

Edited to add:

Cherish your youth. Enjoy it. You are only young once.

Thank you. I really do.

July 9, 2012

Then I'll provide proof (unless you are lying in this post of course):

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/298178-so-where-single-men#post3631265

So "early 20s" apparently. Not 26 then. Even younger.

When I was that age I was out having fun, not spending my time telling middle-age women what's what.

Age and wisdom does not necessarily go hand in hand.

We are never too young or too old to learn from our mistakes.

July 9, 2012

IMO if an OW is going to lower her expectations such as remaining in an EMR even though she really wants to have an open relationship, then MM should compromise too. Maybe he needs to go to counseling to resolve his issues that make it okay for him to string two women along.

If it was me, I would insist that his compromise be that his wife be informed so she can choose whether this situation works for her.

Trinity - you should read the first thread you posted under your second alias (no contact thread) where you talk about settling.

July 9, 2012

I absolutely did not lower my expectations. In month 3-4 I knew it was something potentially life-changing and asked him to choose whether he wanted a future with me. He said he did but it was many more months before anything fundamentally changed. I hurt bad at times. Knowing I couldn't share him led to my issuing ultimatums and us breaking up (more than once) as a result. Even when I felt losing him would kill me I went that route because sharing him indefinitely drove me mental. And I had to 'share' less than most OW. They had no sex, no joint hobbies, no kidding on lips, no intimacy. He was all mine from the start, in that way, but I wanted 'the dream' and once we were together properly it was as amazing as I hoped and I felt vindicated for my demands

Silly girl, you were able to turn it around and end up with him? How did this happen? Was it breaking up with him that made him chose? How long were you together?

July 9, 2012

You are trying to devalue MissBee's experience and wisdom because of her age? :eek: Really sad and disappointing of you! I'm insulted on her behalf.

I often read MissBee's posts and they speak to me as I'm sure they do so many others. It matters not that I'm old enough to be her mother. She is much more like my sister despite the differences in our ages. I'm so happy that she has found her way at this early stage instead of being middle aged like me. She has saved herself a lot of pain and heartbreak and my hat is off to her.

She is wise beyond her years and for those that know her foo history, she has overcome so much. She has a gift of wisdom and insight that shines through in all of her posts.

Such a gift.

We wonder sometimes is it really worth it to go through some of the things we do, then life tosses something at us and we think, nope been there learned from that, move on.

Hard fought wisdom is the best.

July 9, 2012

IMO if an OW is going to lower her expectations such as remaining in an EMR even though she really wants to have an open relationship, then MM should compromise too. Maybe he needs to go to counseling to resolve his issues that make it okay for him to string two women along.

If it was me, I would insist that his compromise be that his wife be informed so she can choose whether this situation works for her.

Trinity - you should read the first thread you posted under your second alias (no contact thread) where you talk about settling.

I agree.

I don't really understand how one cannot see the discrepancy between what they as an OW are willing to compromise and what the MM is...which often seems to be nothing.

How does that not raise any concerns?

July 9, 2012

Age and experience however does. And the more experience you have the more knowledge you have. Hopefully wisdom too.

Sometimes experience only means repeating the same mistakes over and over.

Experience does not necessarily equal wisdom.

If I were to jump off a cliff every day, I guess that would mean I'm very experienced in being an idiot and none the wiser.

July 9, 2012

You are trying to devalue MissBee's experience and wisdom because of her age? :eek: Really sad and disappointing of you! I'm insulted on her behalf.

I often read MissBee's posts and they speak to me as I'm sure they do so many others. It matters not that I'm old enough to be her mother. She is much more like my sister despite the differences in our ages. I'm so happy that she has found her way at this early stage instead of being middle aged like me. She has saved herself a lot of pain and heartbreak and my hat is off to her.

She is wise beyond her years and for those that know her foo history, she has overcome so much. She has a gift of wisdom and insight that shines through in all of her posts.

I really appreciate that LG

Once someone decides to go there, I leave them to it, as their own insecurity often belies the reason why they drew for that line of 'attack". It's very sophomoric, which is all the more ironic.

July 9, 2012

Sometimes experience only means repeating the same mistakes over and over.

Experience does not necessarily equal wisdom.

If I were to jump off a cliff every day, I guess that would mean I'm very experienced in being an idiot and none the wiser.

I literally laughed out loud at this.

As they say, there is no worse fool, than old fool.

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