Married to a narcissist...how to get out?

[onthefence210]

I am no perfect Angel. Although I spent 19 yrs trying, and changing and taking care of everything. I never understood what it meant when my IC stated that my H is a narsisist. At first I questioned how she could come up with such an awful thing after meeting him just once. I never explored the diagnosis because, this woman had to be certifiably nuts and after seeing her for almost a yr, talking about what I was feeling, talking about what I had been thru, I was no further along then I had been and in one meeting with my H, she had a label for him. Yet her only advice was to get out. How the f do I do that? I am the spouse of a narsisist, that makes me just as bad as he is if not worse.

 

I started going to a different IC, hoping to have my H go with me, to listen as to the reasons why I had grown to despise him. I needed a safe place where he couldn't manipulate the situation turning it onto me. I was the one with the problems, he was happy. Yeah that didnt work out so well. I liked the new IC, he had a lot of experience dealing with people like my H, so I suggested my H stay with him and sought out someone else for me. My H went two additional times and quit, prob because he is in complete denial, prob because he truly doesn't get that our M was never an equal partnership, prob because he is in fact a narsisist.

 

I never understood any of this. Even when I knew something wasn't right, even when I had felt the growth and change in myself. Things got better, and I took that as I'd never have what I truly wanted or needed but my family was happy. I didn't realize that I had completely and emotional shut down on him. I stopped letting him affect me. My day wasn't ruined because he pouted or threw tantrums when he wasn't getting his way. I became hollow inside to anything he felt yet with any major crisis...I kept my mouth shut.

 

I learned to live life without worrying about his needs and started to find things that I enjoyed. My gosh, I lived his life for so long that I had no clue who I was. I was happy with the changes I was making yet the more I changed the more he told me I needed help. He hated the changes so much that he told me with each of the 3 IC I've seen, they were all putting thoughts in my head. Brainwashing me.

 

I am a 41 yr old woman. He is 54 and he has had an excuse for every character flaw he has. I blamed myself for so long. I made a horrible choice to feel normal. And that choice is what brought me here to this site. I've learned a lot about myself over the last 7 months that I've had a hard time facing, but I am not giving up on the person I know I truly am, the personi let go of so long ago in order to accommodate such an awful situation.

 

I'm still living with my H, and am not completely healed. I know that time will come but have learned trying to leave a narsisist is harder then living with one. Anyone been thru this? Anyone going thru this? I am still trying to wrap my head around all that I am learning.

[amaysngrace]

My exH is a narcissist.

 

He's remarried now but still refers to me as his wife.

 

Don't take it personally for the way that he treats you...he would treat any woman the same crappy way.

[KathyM]

My sister's first husband was a narcissist. He was also a cheater, so that is what ended their marriage. If he hasn't cheated on you, I think there is still hope for improvement, but I would suggest going to a marriage counselor rather than an independent counselor. If your husband thinks there's something in it for him (i.e., improvement on your part), he may be inclined to go along, and then your counselor can work on the issues both of you have in addition to the interactions you have together. That would be my suggestion. If you just label this as his problem, he will resist seeking change. If you label it as a problem in the marriage, and you make improvements yourself, he may be inclined to make an effort as well.

[carhill]

Since this dynamic apparently is being considered or desired to be considered a marital issue, MC is the appropriate venue IMO. H would need to be analyzed by a professional psychologist/psychiatrist to confirm a probable case of NPD under the DSM guidelines. It's a complex diagnosis.

 

As far as leaving, that's pretty easy; e-mail me (or any typical landlord) an application, get approved, write a check and you have new living quarters. Any incursions by him would be considered trespassing or worse. File for divorce. He doesn't have to be involved in the personal sense at all. You could leave today and never see him again. Up to you.

[onthefence210]

Since this dynamic apparently is being considered or desired to be considered a marital issue, MC is the appropriate venue IMO. H would need to be analyzed by a professional psychologist/psychiatrist to confirm a probable case of NPD under the DSM guidelines. It's a complex diagnosis.

 

As far as leaving, that's pretty easy; e-mail me (or any typical landlord) an application, get approved, write a check and you have new living quarters. Any incursions by him would be considered trespassing or worse. File for divorce. He doesn't have to be involved in the personal sense at all. You could leave today and never see him again. Up to you.

 

Thank you for your responses. I have been in this relationship for 21 yrs and it took me 15 of those yrs to stand up to him in the sense that I no longer enabled him and his behaviors toward me. I stopped taking responsibility for his problems, alcoholism and it's effects. I think if I had gotten to the realization that I'm at now, 15 yrs ago, I'd be 100% committed to doing MC. I have tried 3 different counselors with him and all 3 have called him out on his behavior towards me and he honestly doesn't see it. He gets angry, and then either myself or my kids get the backlash.

 

I tried to leave him several times, and the dynamics of our family keeps me paralyzed. We have 3 kids, two of which are from his first marriage, his first wife passed away when the kids were both toddlers. I have been there mom in every sense of the work since the day I met them. They are adults now but still live with us. They are great kids yet I see how growing up with the two of us we managed to raise I just like him and one just like me. And then there is ours...and she is the one who gets affected by all of this the most if I should leave. I put a deposit on an apartment and I was ready to move, lawyer talked me out of it saying basically, I can't remove her from her home without repurcissions.

 

We are also 60k in debt due to college for our kids, and my H's dreams he's had for himself. 1/2 of that becomes mine. I work but don't make enough money to afford that. I could file bankruptcy but I am trying to avoid that. So I'm planning my escape. Dealing with a person like this is so hard when you are trying to get real. I live in NY and it's not easy to get a divorce.

 

Is there anyone like me, has been in this type of relationship and was able to conquer the fear.

[M30USA]

Thank you for your responses. I have been in this relationship for 21 yrs and it took me 15 of those yrs to stand up to him in the sense that I no longer enabled him and his behaviors toward me. I stopped taking responsibility for his problems, alcoholism and it's effects. I think if I had gotten to the realization that I'm at now, 15 yrs ago, I'd be 100% committed to doing MC. I have tried 3 different counselors with him and all 3 have called him out on his behavior towards me and he honestly doesn't see it. He gets angry, and then either myself or my kids get the backlash.

 

I tried to leave him several times, and the dynamics of our family keeps me paralyzed. We have 3 kids, two of which are from his first marriage, his first wife passed away when the kids were both toddlers. I have been there mom in every sense of the work since the day I met them. They are adults now but still live with us. They are great kids yet I see how growing up with the two of us we managed to raise I just like him and one just like me. And then there is ours...and she is the one who gets affected by all of this the most if I should leave. I put a deposit on an apartment and I was ready to move, lawyer talked me out of it saying basically, I can't remove her from her home without repurcissions.

 

We are also 60k in debt due to college for our kids, and my H's dreams he's had for himself. 1/2 of that becomes mine. I work but don't make enough money to afford that. I could file bankruptcy but I am trying to avoid that. So I'm planning my escape. Dealing with a person like this is so hard when you are trying to get real. I live in NY and it's not easy to get a divorce.

 

Is there anyone like me, has been in this type of relationship and was able to conquer the fear.

 

I was married to a Borderline wife for 5 years and it just recently ended after she was arrested for domestic violence with cop photographs.

 

Here is what the marriage was like:

1) Do what she wants or there is hell to pay. Even if what she wanted made me unhappy, it was still a better alternative than total misery that she would inflict upon me if I didn't do what she wanted.

2) Her family always told me that all these things she did were "both" of our problems to work on "together". Even if she hit me, we "both" needed to make changes to improve things. At first this didn't seem right, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now that I've been away from her and her family for 5 months I'm seeing just how warped it all was.

3) She needed constant, endless help and it never ended. I hardly ever got any alone time because she said the kids were so stressful on her (even though she was a stay at home mom).

4) I actually was kind of hoping I would die at one point. I never considered suicide but I remember a few times thinking, "If I don't wake up tomorrow morning I'd kind of like that." Scary to think I ever was at that point.

[carhill]

No doubt, your child complicates matters. What options has your lawyer presented you with? Probe for solutions. Keep it positive. Sure, actions can have repercussions. No one wins in a divorce. Clarify them and assess the risks.

 

I've found education and knowledge to be an effective solution to fear. Also, networking with friends who will give you emotional support in your change.

 

Formulate a plan and then execute it. The key IMO is caring less than your H does. If you need some more IC to get there, that.

[onthefence210]

My exH is a narcissist.

 

He's remarried now but still refers to me as his wife.

 

Don't take it personally for the way that he treats you...he would treat any woman the same crappy way.

 

How did u leave him? How did u manage the vindictiveness that comes out when they aren't winning. My H has gone as far as filing an OOP against me when we separated after 4 yrs of marriage. He needed something to get me out of his house so that he could continue his A, without feeling any repercussions. My H is mean and nasty and uses his money, our kids to hurt me. They are my weakness. They are what paralyze me when I've built up the courage.

[onthefence210]

No doubt, your child complicates matters. What options has your lawyer presented you with? Probe for solutions. Keep it positive. Sure, actions can have repercussions. No one wins in a divorce. Clarify them and assess the risks.

 

I've found education and knowledge to be an effective solution to fear. Also, networking with friends who will give you emotional support in your change.

 

Formulate a plan and then execute it. The key IMO is caring less than your H does. If you need some more IC to get there, that.

 

Thank u for ur advice. I am just coming to terms with all of this. I knew something was horribly wrong I my marriage, I thought it was his drinking and my codependency. Then when he quit drinking all the time, yet how he treated me persisted I honestly believed it was my lack of trying. I fought for him for yrs. begging him to love me the way I knew I wanted to be loved. I became less of a nag, and I found that less nagging just meant less of me asking for him to treat me like a wife. He confused and manipulated me by being an amazing person but I had to give something in return. I had to go along with his selfish demands. It took me a long time to get to the point of acceptance, and now I'm trying to learn and understand.

 

I am making plans for me to leave. NY state is a no fault state but only of the two parties agree. So I need grounds. When I got to the lawyers office to file for separation...I still needed grounds. I am afraid of my H...not physically but mentally. I sat in this guys office and was afraid to tell him what I've been thru. Not because I cared what he was thinking but because I knew I'd have to deal with the wrath of my H til a judge decided who was to leave or even gave me permission to leave with my daughter.

 

As far as support. I'm learning about the laws of attraction. We attract people who are like us. My father is just like my H, and my mom sees nothing wrong with it, or maybe she is just ignorant because she is older. My siblings are all like I was. My family loves my H, and tells me I'm crazy to leave the security that I have. I have one friend...she is my rock. She has been there with me thru my entire marriage. Yet she falls into my H's puppeteer mentality. He is a salesman and can sell himself like no one else. That's why it has been so hard for me to get people to understand.

[onthefence210]

I was married to a Borderline wife for 5 years and it just recently ended after she was arrested for domestic violence with cop photographs.

 

Here is what the marriage was like:

1) Do what she wants or there is hell to pay. Even if what she wanted made me unhappy, it was still a better alternative than total misery that she would inflict upon me if I didn't do what she wanted.

2) Her family always told me that all these things she did were "both" of our problems to work on "together". Even if she hit me, we "both" needed to make changes to improve things. At first this didn't seem right, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now that I've been away from her and her family for 5 months I'm seeing just how warped it all was.

3) She needed constant, endless help and it never ended. I hardly ever got any alone time because she said the kids were so stressful on her (even though she was a stay at home mom).

4) I actually was kind of hoping I would die at one point. I never considered suicide but I remember a few times thinking, "If I don't wake up tomorrow morning I'd kind of like that." Scary to think I ever was at that point.

 

I have thought that very same thought many times. How if only I would fall asleep and never wake up. My husbands first wife died at 32. I secretly wished shed come back so that I would have never met him. I've learned in the last few months that he treated her the same as I found a letter she had written over 25 yrs ago to him. It was wedged under a drawer that I was cleaning out. I could have written that letter. I kno life has got to be better then this. And it's sick how we lose ourselves in these sick people's minds. I had no boudaries when it came to him.

[Radu]

How did she die ?

 

I suspect you know why i'm asking.

 

Keep that letter, it may show a pattern of what you have been experiencing and you might need it later.

Is it in her own handwriting ?

[Athena]

Richard Skerritt, author of "Surviving the Storm

Strategies and Realities when Divorcing a Narcissist" tells you EXACTLY how to leave a narcissist, and how to watch out for their vengeful behavior.

 

Buy the book from his website, not amazon, because it's only $24 there Surviving the Storm - Divorcing a Narcissist - Dalkeith Press

[Athena]

Also, there is a huge website dedicated to a spouse dealing with a narcissistic spouse, including How To Leave them... just google 'How to manipulate a narcissist' -- its the first one to come up. You will find plenty of help there.

[wow04]

Get ready for a bumpy ride. My exH is a narcissist. The divorce was long and drawn out. The name calling and the stuff he put the kids through was insane. I had enough counseling to learn how to handle him. When he talked to me and started the screaming and put downs. I, very nicely, said I am hanging up and when you want to talk to me like a civilized human being we will talk. I then hung up the phone.

 

I can tell you it was the best thing I ever did. I am so much happier. Stand strong, keep going to counseling, and you will get through this.

[Radagast]

I know that time will come but have learned trying to leave a narsisist is harder then living with one. Anyone been thru this? Anyone going thru this?

 

I lived what you are going through. I was deep in denial for most of the thirty-odd years I was with my ex-wife. I know those feelings of powerlessness about leaving, the complications around children, the dissonance between your own slow growth of insight and the "reality" being bounced back at you by your spouse. I was trapped for decades.

 

What saved me was falling in love with someone else. Her love provided me with a counterpoint, a different world view, and the space to grow the strength I needed to make the break. I went to counselling which helped enormously. I began to recognise things as they were. I was also consumed by fears of leaving: the impact on the kids (we'd had a previous separation which had been very traumatic for them), what would happen about shared assets and debts, what would happen to my ex-wife (she'd fallen apart during the previous separation, although she'd instigated it) and fears about what I was leaving to.

 

And yet, once I left, nothing was as hard as I'd feared. Yes she gave me a great deal of trouble during the divorce process. Yes she tried to upset the children and make things difficult for them. Yes things were complicated financially due to the economic crash. Yes I moved out with little more than the clothes on my back and felt like I was camping while she continued to live in comfort. But it was worth it in every respect.

 

Just waking up each morning free of the instinctual flinching fear of what I was going to be accused of felt like nirvana. Walking around the house without dread of what would be said or done, filling the space with my own thoughts and listening to the music or news or whatever I wanted to listen to, or nothing at all, and chatting to the kids at breakfast instead of everyone keeping their eyes in their plate, walking on eggs around her unknown shifting moods. It felt so indulgent at first, doing exactly what I wanted when I wanted to do it, being silly or quiet or happy or active or angry. I was never allowed angry or hurt before, it felt good to give myself the permission. I was amazed at how soon I expanded psychically to fill the space of living without her, like a caged lion set free on the savanna. It felt so good.

 

I can't say what would work for you. I know that I found the strength in another's love, but others have managed to break free without that. But I can say that once you find your key to freedom, you will never look back and even the problems you know you will face in separating - the debt, the children, etc - will seem trivial because your freedom with matter more than anything else. I wish you the very very best of luck.

[Feelin Frisky]

OP, "narcissist" is a subjective term that is falling into disfavor in the mental health field. And my experience having been in therapy, rehab etc is that some people--doctors too--just don't know what the hell they are talking about and probably shouldn't have the power they do. I'll give you two examples. I was in a hospital--dare I admit it, for tying to take my own life via an intentional drug overdose. It's the only time and it's not like me to be suicidal but I had a bad case of depression and drug addiction and it just seemed like I'd be doing other people a favor by checking out. I didn't feel I was being selfish--I just was emotionless and cold about it. I'm atheist and very clear that there is no after-life consequence. I was assigned a woman psychiatrist. The first thing she said to me without hearing anything from me is "you're not a nice man". How in the hell is that supposed to help me and what am I supposed to do with that when I'm in such a state?

 

Years later I went into a pyche hospital because I had a bad reaction to an OTC supplement that caused extreme anxiety and sleeplessness from which I got addicted to XANAX. I went in to get over the XANAX addiction. After seeing a nice doctor for a couple of days, I saw another doctor on the weekend who handled the shift. This guy told me "you're arrogant" just as we started to talk. I was speechless really. He knew not one thing about me from conversation and IMO abused his office to lord his power over me because he just didn't like my looks. A mental health professional should be wayyyyyyyy above thinking like that much less saying that and IMO both of these two shrinks "did harm"--they went against their oath and made flippant personal statements that could have caused me to get worse if I were less of a fighter.

 

A "narcissist" is a somewhat poetic term for someone who is ego-centric--not that he or she "loves himself" or is "vain" but sees everyone else as a character of limited utility in their life. This however is not necessarily a disorder--it is a natural condition that comes from neglect of social development. And our educational model is almost entirely neglectful of social development knowledge and strategies. People in the mental health field who use the term narcissist don't see that there might have been anything fundamentally wrong with the models of education or family interaction and instead project an elaborate "fault" on the person. That is not to excuse the many people who heartlessly use and abuse others around them as mere tools of their will. I'm just speaking my own experience for what it might be worth. I know I am not a narcissist, not a heartless user, I am a caring and hopeful person and not at all what some of the nut bags who I wound up in care with assumed me to be. I know I feel other people's pain and that makes me decent. And decent is the basic building block of good.

 

When you consider your partner, consider whether this person has the capacity to empathize with you. That cannot be taught. If that is so, then you have a solid ground to free yourself as opposed to some complicated notion that is already known to be out of date.

[heart_shredded]

I am no perfect Angel. Although I spent 19 yrs trying, and changing and taking care of everything. I never understood what it meant when my IC stated that my H is a narsisist. At first I questioned how she could come up with such an awful thing after meeting him just once. I never explored the diagnosis because, this woman had to be certifiably nuts and after seeing her for almost a yr, talking about what I was feeling, talking about what I had been thru, I was no further along then I had been and in one meeting with my H, she had a label for him. Yet her only advice was to get out. How the f do I do that? I am the spouse of a narsisist, that makes me just as bad as he is if not worse.

 

I started going to a different IC, hoping to have my H go with me, to listen as to the reasons why I had grown to despise him. I needed a safe place where he couldn't manipulate the situation turning it onto me. I was the one with the problems, he was happy. Yeah that didnt work out so well. I liked the new IC, he had a lot of experience dealing with people like my H, so I suggested my H stay with him and sought out someone else for me. My H went two additional times and quit, prob because he is in complete denial, prob because he truly doesn't get that our M was never an equal partnership, prob because he is in fact a narsisist.

 

I never understood any of this. Even when I knew something wasn't right, even when I had felt the growth and change in myself. Things got better, and I took that as I'd never have what I truly wanted or needed but my family was happy. I didn't realize that I had completely and emotional shut down on him. I stopped letting him affect me. My day wasn't ruined because he pouted or threw tantrums when he wasn't getting his way. I became hollow inside to anything he felt yet with any major crisis...I kept my mouth shut.

 

I learned to live life without worrying about his needs and started to find things that I enjoyed. My gosh, I lived his life for so long that I had no clue who I was. I was happy with the changes I was making yet the more I changed the more he told me I needed help. He hated the changes so much that he told me with each of the 3 IC I've seen, they were all putting thoughts in my head. Brainwashing me.

 

I am a 41 yr old woman. He is 54 and he has had an excuse for every character flaw he has. I blamed myself for so long. I made a horrible choice to feel normal. And that choice is what brought me here to this site. I've learned a lot about myself over the last 7 months that I've had a hard time facing, but I am not giving up on the person I know I truly am, the personi let go of so long ago in order to accommodate such an awful situation.

 

I'm still living with my H, and am not completely healed. I know that time will come but have learned trying to leave a narsisist is harder then living with one. Anyone been thru this? Anyone going thru this? I am still trying to wrap my head around all that I am learning.

 

Yeah, me too. I just found outyesterday that my H was a N. I didn't know what an N was. He is impossible but I fougt to save the marriage for 18 years. I have bee to strong to long. Nw I am so exhausted that I am sick and on anti-depressants. I'm now 63 so it's a litte late to think about leaving, or is it? I don't know! I know he doesn't care. You are still young. Maybe you should think about trying to make it work. Or maybe you should get out while you can. I have no answer because I'm in the same boat as you. I am so unhappy. He won't let me talk or reason with him. He stars screaming and throwing stuff, the little tiny poodles get scared and run and hide. So I wrote him a letter yesterday and put it on his pillow. He read it but no comment. He is pouting now, for days or a week I guess. I feel like not welcome in my own home that I helped pay for an still paying for. He's so cold and hard hearted that nothing bothers him. How are you??

[heart_shredded]

I was married to a Borderline wife for 5 years and it just recently ended after she was arrested for domestic violence with cop photographs.

 

Here is what the marriage was like:

1) Do what she wants or there is hell to pay. Even if what she wanted made me unhappy, it was still a better alternative than total misery that she would inflict upon me if I didn't do what she wanted.

2) Her family always told me that all these things she did were "both" of our problems to work on "together". Even if she hit me, we "both" needed to make changes to improve things. At first this didn't seem right, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Now that I've been away from her and her family for 5 months I'm seeing just how warped it all was.

3) She needed constant, endless help and it never ended. I hardly ever got any alone time because she said the kids were so stressful on her (even though she was a stay at home mom).

4) I actually was kind of hoping I would die at one point. I never considered suicide but I remember a few times thinking, "If I don't wake up tomorrow morning I'd kind of like that." Scary to think I ever was at that point.

 

Yes, I was there, still am. My H is intolerable. I even prayed once that God would just let me fall asleep and not wake up. I m still here but it's worse. I found out that my H has full coverage on his 2010 Aveo but he has only libility on the vehicle i use, a 1999 Dodge Sport Van. He is a N (narsasistic) and I have fought for nearly 18 years to make it work. I thought he wasjust arrogant, selfish, prideful, a liar, self consceded ....on and on but I discovered yesterday that he is N. I was shocked. I wonder if there is hope. He is so abusive verbally and with his actions. he won't let me talk, he can't communicate so I wrote him a letter and he read t but didn't speak. Still today he has not spoken. I guess he's pouting. I threatentd to leave him but he doesn't care. He's cold and litterally has no feelings, no apathy for anyone. Yet, he is so cruel and selfish. He would take food right out of my mouth if he wanted it. I wonder what the outcome will be. I'm 63 now and not ina good place to leave and I have no family. So....I guess I wait it out. What an aweful life to live. If it wasn't for God, I would be in a bad shape. But HE is my friend.(God) I'm glad yu got away form your bad marriage. There is no since in staying in a marriage that is so miserable. I pray the best for you.

[onthefence210]

Sadly she died at a red light. Just died. The autopsy showed nothing. Her kids were in the car with her. He...on the golf course. They had a fight that morning. She was upset because they were leaving on vaca the next day and kids were sick. She needed his help. She was on the way to the dr for the kids. She was adopted, no past med history so they just said it prob was a genetic thing. Some mechanical gliche from her brain to her heart. They found nothing. My H tried to sue her ob because she had symptoms (passing out which he only found out after she died) and her dr kept giving her slow fe which is iron.

 

Yes the letter is hand written. It basically says how he doesn't know how to love. Has not an emotional bone in his body. And that she is done trying to love him. I have no clue if they were married when it was written. There wasn't a date on it.

[onthefence210]

Richard Skerritt, author of "Surviving the Storm

Strategies and Realities when Divorcing a Narcissist" tells you EXACTLY how to leave a narcissist, and how to watch out for their vengeful behavior.

 

Buy the book from his website, not amazon, because it's only $24 there Surviving the Storm - Divorcing a Narcissist - Dalkeith Press

 

Thank u. I have two books downloaded. I am realizing it has to be calculated. Sadly I tipped him off before I truly understood what I was dealing with even though I kno how he reacts. I swear I thought that it was his twisted way of loving me. Not letting me go. It was my own twisted sense and once I understood that, and he no longer gets the reactions he wants from me...he is taking it out on my kids. Two are his adult children, sadly they know his behavior is whacked but they have no clue that its not acceptable behavior.

[onthefence210]

I lived what you are going through. I was deep in denial for most of the thirty-odd years I was with my ex-wife. I know those feelings of powerlessness about leaving, the complications around children, the dissonance between your own slow growth of insight and the "reality" being bounced back at you by your spouse. I was trapped for decades.

 

What saved me was falling in love with someone else. Her love provided me with a counterpoint, a different world view, and the space to grow the strength I needed to make the break. I went to counselling which helped enormously. I began to recognise things as they were. I was also consumed by fears of leaving: the impact on the kids (we'd had a previous separation which had been very traumatic for them), what would happen about shared assets and debts, what would happen to my ex-wife (she'd fallen apart during the previous separation, although she'd instigated it) and fears about what I was leaving to.

 

And yet, once I left, nothing was as hard as I'd feared. Yes she gave me a great deal of trouble during the divorce process. Yes she tried to upset the children and make things difficult for them. Yes things were complicated financially due to the economic crash. Yes I moved out with little more than the clothes on my back and felt like I was camping while she continued to live in comfort. But it was worth it in every respect.

 

Just waking up each morning free of the instinctual flinching fear of what I was going to be accused of felt like nirvana. Walking around the house without dread of what would be said or done, filling the space with my own thoughts and listening to the music or news or whatever I wanted to listen to, or nothing at all, and chatting to the kids at breakfast instead of everyone keeping their eyes in their plate, walking on eggs around her unknown shifting moods. It felt so indulgent at first, doing exactly what I wanted when I wanted to do it, being silly or quiet or happy or active or angry. I was never allowed angry or hurt before, it felt good to give myself the permission. I was amazed at how soon I expanded psychically to fill the space of living without her, like a caged lion set free on the savanna. It felt so good.

 

I can't say what would work for you. I know that I found the strength in another's love, but others have managed to break free without that. But I can say that once you find your key to freedom, you will never look back and even the problems you know you will face in separating - the debt, the children, etc - will seem trivial because your freedom with matter more than anything else. I wish you the very very best of luck.

 

I think I've run into you in another forum . I am just like you. I ended up in a highly emotional affair. It started out with a friend. It was normal conversation. He was a normal man (with the exception he was married to the same kind of person as I). At first it was just friends. We didn't discuss our marriages yet we both proclaimed to be in one. I think we didn't discuss it for months because of shame. But as we became more trusting, we opened up. We didn't dwell on our lives, we concentrated on the things we enjoyed. I confessed to my H after he suspected by that time it had been going on for 2 yrs.

 

I spent a lot of time focusing on how I could allow myself to do this. I had spent my entire marriage alone and lonely yet the thought never crossed my mind. And here I was, having an emotional mature relationship. There were never any promises of leaving spouses. Never any ultimatums. Never any futuristic plans. I knew it was wrong when it did get physical but by that time I was going to enjoy him for as long as I could.

 

That was 7 months ago. I have never had one consequence placed on me for what I've done. My H just asked how I could do that to him, and I told him the truth. He basically said that man used u for sex. I just shook my head. I guess over a two yr period, seeing him less then 10 times, and most of those times we were out enjoying life. He throws it in my face when he's not winning, but I don't let it get to me. I had more of a relationship thru FaceTime then I have ever had with my H in person. Some may think in in some denial, but I have only one regret...that when my AP and I said goodbye, that I didn't thank him for giving me 2 great yrs of honest friendship.

[onthefence210]

OP, "narcissist" is a subjective term that is falling into disfavor in the mental health field. And my experience having been in therapy, rehab etc is that some people--doctors too--just don't know what the hell they are talking about and probably shouldn't have the power they do. I'll give you two examples. I was in a hospital--dare I admit it, for tying to take my own life via an intentional drug overdose. It's the only time and it's not like me to be suicidal but I had a bad case of depression and drug addiction and it just seemed like I'd be doing other people a favor by checking out. I didn't feel I was being selfish--I just was emotionless and cold about it. I'm atheist and very clear that there is no after-life consequence. I was assigned a woman psychiatrist. The first thing she said to me without hearing anything from me is "you're not a nice man". How in the hell is that supposed to help me and what am I supposed to do with that when I'm in such a state?

 

Years later I went into a pyche hospital because I had a bad reaction to an OTC supplement that caused extreme anxiety and sleeplessness from which I got addicted to XANAX. I went in to get over the XANAX addiction. After seeing a nice doctor for a couple of days, I saw another doctor on the weekend who handled the shift. This guy told me "you're arrogant" just as we started to talk. I was speechless really. He knew not one thing about me from conversation and IMO abused his office to lord his power over me because he just didn't like my looks. A mental health professional should be wayyyyyyyy above thinking like that much less saying that and IMO both of these two shrinks "did harm"--they went against their oath and made flippant personal statements that could have caused me to get worse if I were less of a fighter.

 

A "narcissist" is a somewhat poetic term for someone who is ego-centric--not that he or she "loves himself" or is "vain" but sees everyone else as a character of limited utility in their life. This however is not necessarily a disorder--it is a natural condition that comes from neglect of social development. And our educational model is almost entirely neglectful of social development knowledge and strategies. People in the mental health field who use the term narcissist don't see that there might have been anything fundamentally wrong with the models of education or family interaction and instead project an elaborate "fault" on the person. That is not to excuse the many people who heartlessly use and abuse others around them as mere tools of their will. I'm just speaking my own experience for what it might be worth. I know I am not a narcissist, not a heartless user, I am a caring and hopeful person and not at all what some of the nut bags who I wound up in care with assumed me to be. I know I feel other people's pain and that makes me decent. And decent is the basic building block of good.

 

When you consider your partner, consider whether this person has the capacity to empathize with you. That cannot be taught. If that is so, then you have a solid ground to free yourself as opposed to some complicated notion that is already known to be out of date.

 

 

Thank u for responding. I'm going to just say, I've come a long way. I am soooo much stronger then I was. But u ask about empathy, please let me give u a glimpse in my early life with him and u tell me.

 

I got pregnant. It was unplanned, we used the pull out method (when things were well heated) and he knew that I wasn't on BC. My periods were very irregular as I was very fit with little body fat. So when I found out that I was pregnant...I had no clue as to how far along I was. I told my H(then bf of 2 yrs) and he immediately grabbed the phone book made me an appointment with planned parenthood. Once confirmed, the next phone call was an abortion clinic. There was no discussion other for him to say...what is my mother going to think? He was 35 at this time, owned his own home.

 

Then it was abortion day. He dragged me crying to the door, handed me cash and walked away only to look to make sure I went in. It was the most disgusting thing I've ever had to do in my life. He left and went and had coffee with his mom while I had a life sucked out of me. I even had to wait for him to pick me up as he wasn't there yet. Then he didn't even get out of the car. I was never allowed to talk about that day. Ever. He put me on his couch, told his kids I was sick and went about his day.

 

And that was before I even married him. He struck the ****ing gold mine when he found me. My father has narcissistic traits and he was awful to live with (step dad) and my H makes my father look like little red riding hood. So I get that the term is used loosely when listening to people bitch about their spouse. But believe me...I may have asked, nagged and then begged to be loved by this man but sadly narcissists do not have any capacity to love. And the people who fall prey to there twisted ways, we kno our own realities.Especially when we are finally seeing the truth.

[Stillgrowing]

This whole thread makes my heart sink. I can't even read the posts all the way through. My husband is, I believe, borderline and a narcissist. I know in my heart I need to leave and I'm also trying to find myself and make myself into who I really am, not this weird passive being I've morphed into over the years. With a lot of deep breaths and a glass of wine, I'm going back to read through all of the posts.

 

Peace.

[onthefence210]

This whole thread makes my heart sink. I can't even read the posts all the way through. My husband is, I believe, borderline and a narcissist. I know in my heart I need to leave and I'm also trying to find myself and make myself into who I really am, not this weird passive being I've morphed into over the years. With a lot of deep breaths and a glass of wine, I'm going back to read through all of the posts.

 

Peace.

 

Keep reading please...it was denial that kept me tangled up, feeding into my H's behavior even when I knew something wasn't right. I still to this day am blamed for everything. He builds me up to this day, making me sound like I'm the best wife in the world to his family and friends, not because I am (I'm still a good person) but because it is about how people perceive him and our marriage.

 

I am still struggling with all of this. Getting sick to my stomach when reading traits and behaviors that trigger a memory. Memories that I can't even remember the feelings that I had as it was happening. Prob because I felt nothing. I was a hollow shell of nothing. He made sure of that. I am the most sick for "his" my 2 adult children. They are so dependent on him yet they have no clue as to why. His son has made some awful choices, never been held responsible. Has the same excuses as my H does but he is growing. I am doing everything in my power to help my kids understand yet Im still trying to understand myself. My kids are my world. I owe them happy.

[amaysngrace]

How did u leave him? How did u manage the vindictiveness that comes out when they aren't winning. My H has gone as far as filing an OOP against me when we separated after 4 yrs of marriage. He needed something to get me out of his house so that he could continue his A, without feeling any repercussions. My H is mean and nasty and uses his money, our kids to hurt me. They are my weakness. They are what paralyze me when I've built up the courage.

 

Therein lies the difference between us. My kids were my strength. I decided that I didn't want my daughter ending up with a man like him and equally as important did not want my son to become that man.

 

It doesn't happen overnight. I contacted a lawyer in early fall but didn't leave him until early spring. My lawyer guided me every step of the way.

 

The whole time I was planning our break from him I just played nice. I kept on keeping on while planning my escape.

 

Honestly it wasn't that difficult to pretend because he was so self-absorbed he never even noticed that I was fixing to leave.