Author Koda1969 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Posted July 6, 2012 Yeah but we didn't marry till we'd been together for 6 years. Trust is important and it does go both ways. Both fresh out of relationships when we started dating; his most recent ex became an ex due to her drinking style and combative attitude. He was trying to be her friend and give her a place she could choose to hang out so long as she arrived sober and stayed that way. All of her friends were heavy drinkers and obstacles to her trying to clean up. Pretty quickly I could see she was not coming around for the help he was trying to offer her and said so. I was not ready to trust his long rope to hang yourself with style and he was not ready to trust my intuition about someone I didn't know well when it rubbed against his personal code about friendship. I chose to be the one to blink first, step back and let that train wreck I knew was inevitable happen but with one condition - if she attempted to use his friendship to rekindle then I didn't want to see her face again. So I put a smile on my face and stood by him, treated her warmly and matched his intentions. The train wrecked, she was show the door out of his life and we had that first block of trust established with each other. I hope it all works out for you and your guy. Just make sure to not contribute to any train wrecks looming on the horizon and do your part to build trust by letting him sort out his friends while being informed of your boundaries on the matter so he can earn yours too. Good luck! Ahh, I see your point and I commend you on your decision. It makes perfect sense. I should add, I get you insofar as the abandonment aspect. My biological father gave me up because his new wife didn't want me in their lives, and then went on to spend 30 harrowing years with a lousy step-father. I honestly spent most of my 30's coming to grips with all that, and learning to recognize that not all men are jerks (and that people shouldn't be stereotyped) so I am not quick to bail. For me, there is another aspect I didn't mention. I was diagnosed with epilepsy 2 years ago. Knock wood, my issue is medication controlled, but stress is a factor that I HAVE to regulate to stay healthy, so these dramas upset me and my natural instinct is to run if only to preserve my health. But, there are good points to my BF which again is why I won't throw in the towel. The friends are the only issue, and I need to find a way to cope. Although, for me, because of the health aspects, I think I am going to have to talk to him this weekend and just say that for the sake of my own sanity that he is going to need to handle his friends in the way he sees fit, but to keep me out of that for now. Out of sight, out of mind, at least for now and to see where things progress.
fucpcg Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) We assemble with those we resemble. If his girlfriends are obnoxious and immature, then he is with them because there is a part of him that matches them. My ex was 39 when we were dating. She hung out with a bunch of 25ish girls that were all heavy drinking, slutty train wrecks. When we first started dating, she tried to get me to go out with her and her girlfriends, and after spending one night with them, I refused to do it again. She could either have them, or have me, but no way in hell she was getting me to join up with her friends and their lifestyle, which was drinking weekdays and weekends till bar close. The ex then tried to form a compormise, she'd hang out with them for a while, then come to see me after. Sure, come over drunk looking for sex, I'm not having that either. Finally after two months of this fiasco, I broke things off with her. When I did wow she flipped and BEGGED me back, told me she needed me, she knew her friends were no good for her, she didn't want that lifestyle anymore, she totally wanted to change for me, etc etc. I bought it, and we got back together. A year later, we got into a fight, and she broke up with me. That coming weekend she was out with all those same white trash girls. And then the stories started... he was controlling you, he wouldn't let you be with your girlfriends. He was never supportive of you. He wanted you to change for him, he didn't love who you are. Blah Blah Blah. Her desire to not have such crap friends and lifestlye lasted about a year, and for the year and a half since we've been split, she's been out getting trashed with them practically every weekend, while they all throw me under the bus of what a horrible person I was for trying to control and change her. I learned a very serious lesson with her. This was the first time I ever tried dating a woman who I really didn't like her friends at all. Even at my aged I was duped into believing that she was nothing like them, just a good girl around bad people. And I got burned for it. Beware. Oh and BTW, you will see the reference has nothing to do with the sex of the friends, it has to do with the friends themselves. I have mostly girl friends, maybe because I grew up around my 5 sisters, but who knows... Point being, about 75% or more of my closest friends are all women. They are also professionally employed, good friends, good parents, good people. They don't act like obnoxious trash when they are out, they don't even go out much. Many I met thru volunteering at mutual places. Sure I have a lot of girl friends, but they are GOOD people, that is why I spend time with them. Edited July 6, 2012 by fucpcg
Author Koda1969 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Posted July 6, 2012 We assemble with those we resemble. If his girlfriends are obnoxious and immature, then he is with them because there is a part of him that matches them. My ex was 39 when we were dating. She hung out with a bunch of 25ish girls that were all heavy drinking, slutty train wrecks. When we first started dating, she tried to get me to go out with her and her girlfriends, and after spending one night with them, I refused to do it again. She could either have them, or have me, but no way in hell she was getting me to join up with her friends and their lifestyle, which was drinking weekdays and weekends till bar close. The ex then tried to form a compormise, she'd hang out with them for a while, then come to see me after. Sure, come over drunk looking for sex, I'm not having that either. Finally after two months of this fiasco, I broke things off with her. When I did wow she flipped and BEGGED me back, told me she needed me, she knew her friends were no good for her, she didn't want that lifestyle anymore, she totally wanted to change for me, etc etc. I bought it, and we got back together. A year later, we got into a fight, and she broke up with me. That coming weekend she was out with all those same white trash girls. And then the stories started... he was controlling you, he wouldn't let you be with your girlfriends. He was never supportive of you. He wanted you to change for him, he didn't love who you are. Blah Blah Blah. Her desire to not have such crap friends and lifestlye lasted about a year, and for the year and a half since we've been split, she's been out getting trashed with them practically every weekend, while they all throw me under the bus of what a horrible person I was for trying to control and change her. I learned a very serious lesson with her. This was the first time I ever tried dating a woman who I really didn't like her friends at all. Even at my aged I was duped into believing that she was nothing like them, just a good girl around bad people. And I got burned for it. Beware. Oh and BTW, you will see the reference has nothing to do with the sex of the friends, it has to do with the friends themselves. I have mostly girl friends, maybe because I grew up around my 5 sisters, but who knows... Point being, about 75% or more of my closest friends are all women. They are also professionally employed, good friends, good parents, good people. They don't act like obnoxious trash when they are out, they don't even go out much. Many I met thru volunteering at mutual places. Sure I have a lot of girl friends, but they are GOOD people, that is why I spend time with them. Wow...thank you for sharing your story. Actually, you mirror my sentiment in that people hang out with people who are a reflection of them. It's something I learned early on, so I choose my situations based on how i want to be perceived. You also summed up perfectly what I try to say, in that it isn't the female part, it's the type of friend. If you are around friends who have no valid life or sustenance, what's that old adage, misery loves company! But thank you, I appreciate your perspective and story. I do intend to talk with him this weekend. I don't know what will come of it, but ah well. I will try. 1
betterdeal Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Very good points, and I agree completely. I did actually discuss it with him (and it is an ongoing discussion). I told him that I just don't want to be around people like that, and he said he understood. Heck, he himself admits that his friends have issues and are nuts. But, he has this weird need to "not let them down". That, of course, gives me pause. Because if he is the type who likes "rescuing" women, then I'm not a good fit because I'm not really broken, if that makes sense. He swears that he wants me in his life and he wants this "adult relationship" (as we jokingly call it). It's just that he isn't taking steps to set boundaries with the friends. He says he will, then a reason crops up that prevents it from happening. So, I feel that ultimately the next step for me will have to be a firmer discussion and then distancing myself. From my perspective, I'm just frustrated because I honestly don't like having to give ultimatums or pressure. I've been divorced for 17 years and as I said previously, I am not looking for a husband, and I can't have children. I like earning a good living, and playing/spending that hard earned money, so I kind of view it as the best of all worlds. He's the one setting the pace, and I'm fine with that, since he says he's "new" to a real relationship, but he wanted exclusivity. Yet, I kind of feel that he is the one benefitting because he's getting the benefits of being with me (the sex) while keeping his raunchy clingy friends. Seeing as you have identified a core issue being his conflict avoidance, perhaps suggesting he look into assertiveness and boundaries could be the next step, if you prefer to give him a clue as to how to change in a way that would make your relationship more stable (and other ones in his life). There's some books I can recommend on both, if you'd like.
Author Koda1969 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Posted July 6, 2012 Seeing as you have identified a core issue being his conflict avoidance, perhaps suggesting he look into assertiveness and boundaries could be the next step, if you prefer to give him a clue as to how to change in a way that would make your relationship more stable (and other ones in his life). There's some books I can recommend on both, if you'd like. Thank you, I'd love the suggestions. He IS willing to learn from me, because I make no bones about my transformation over the years. So, as I said, my goal isn't to just dump and run...but you hit upon a good point that maybe some "outside" help might be helpful. Thank you!
phineas Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Eliminating a source of drama and disrespect for any potential relationships is not treating people as disposable. Personally I think the guy has boundary issues or just doesn't care. He has a harem & he loves it. I personally wouldn't date the female version of OP BF because I like to avoid BS. Oh and he's either slept with them or they want to sleep with him.
darkmoon Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 "Some are in the their mid 20's some in their 30's. None are our age." seems this guy of yours has developed a liking for acting in loco parentis, meaning he likes to play parent to make sure that these young friends are ok, he likes to feel older and savvier (what other reason?) i think they should be referred to their real families - not in a way that makes OP look likes she's seeking victory but because they are as untogether as you describe, too young to be sensible - another poster said to meet his family, yes, try that.
betterdeal Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 Could be a growth opportunity for you both! The two books I'd recommend to start with are When I Say No I Feel Guilty and Boundaries and Relationships: Knowing, Protecting and Enjoying the Self (more details in this journal entry ) Live, love, learn
Author Koda1969 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Posted July 6, 2012 Could be a growth opportunity for you both! The two books I'd recommend to start with are When I Say No I Feel Guilty and Boundaries and Relationships: Knowing, Protecting and Enjoying the Self (more details in this journal entry ) Live, love, learn Thanks, I will definitely check them out. Ironically, I don't have issues expressing myself. I tend to be very blunt and when there is a problem (work, personal, etc.) I tried to find the cause and fix the issue. Obviously, not always helpful with relationships when the other person isn't able to be assertive with boundaries (as I am now finding out). But I'm always game to read new books relating to the mind. I was diagnosed with epilepsy two years ago, and part of my regiment is reading books on the mind, emotions, etc. to better control my own and avoid seizures (knock wood, two years seizure free and to see me, you'd never know I have epilepsy). Anything that can help offer insight on being stronger is something I like
fucpcg Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 I'm sorry but I feel if you ignore my advice it will be at your own peril in the long run. If he wanted to change his environment he would have done it long before you. People who change for someone, it never lasts. People only change when they want to for themself. If his friends are immature idiots, that is exactly where he is in life, and where he is comfortable. If he wasn't comfortable there, and wanted to change, he would have went out and sought self help books on his own. My ex once cried, proclaimed, begged my support in helping her change. I gave her and her three children my soul after she did that, invested everything and anything I had to give. A year later, I was destroyed, and she was with the same people she begged for help to rid her life of. 2
without Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Honestly I never feel comfortable around men with too many girlfriends. There must be sth wrong in this thing.
without Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 I'm sorry but I feel if you ignore my advice it will be at your own peril in the long run. If he wanted to change his environment he would have done it long before you. People who change for someone, it never lasts. People only change when they want to for themself. If his friends are immature idiots, that is exactly where he is in life, and where he is comfortable. If he wasn't comfortable there, and wanted to change, he would have went out and sought self help books on his own. My ex once cried, proclaimed, begged my support in helping her change. I gave her and her three children my soul after she did that, invested everything and anything I had to give. A year later, I was destroyed, and she was with the same people she begged for help to rid her life of. Sad but true.
betterdeal Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 Thanks, I will definitely check them out. Ironically, I don't have issues expressing myself. I tend to be very blunt and when there is a problem (work, personal, etc.) I tried to find the cause and fix the issue. Obviously, not always helpful with relationships when the other person isn't able to be assertive with boundaries (as I am now finding out). Well, see, a lot of people who have problems asserting themselves are blame-oriented rather than solution oriented like yourself. Areas of potential conflict to a blame-oriented person are potentially more significant than they are to the solutions person because they represent the "goodness" or "worthiness" of the people involved. Taking a bit of sports-psychology, mistakes are lessons to be learnt. But I'm always game to read new books relating to the mind. I was diagnosed with epilepsy two years ago, and part of my regiment is reading books on the mind, emotions, etc. to better control my own and avoid seizures (knock wood, two years seizure free and to see me, you'd never know I have epilepsy). Anything that can help offer insight on being stronger is something I like Good for you, managing your mind well enough to avoid seizures. I wonder if DBT might be relevant / useful for you? I recommend looking into it.
betterdeal Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 I'm sorry but I feel if you ignore my advice it will be at your own peril in the long run. If he wanted to change his environment he would have done it long before you. People who change for someone, it never lasts. People only change when they want to for themself. If his friends are immature idiots, that is exactly where he is in life, and where he is comfortable. If he wasn't comfortable there, and wanted to change, he would have went out and sought self help books on his own. My ex once cried, proclaimed, begged my support in helping her change. I gave her and her three children my soul after she did that, invested everything and anything I had to give. A year later, I was destroyed, and she was with the same people she begged for help to rid her life of. There's quite a bit of ground between non-engagement and over-extending yourself. Finding the tools to thrive in that space is something I'm working on.
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