He's on vacation with his kids

[dreamingoftigers]

I never looked at it that way. I just thought it was nice that he was so attentive to me even when away from me. And I thought if I told his son how much I liked his dad he might try to understand. Stupid, I guess.

 

He has also done a surprise meeting with his younger son. Once in a shop for a few minutes and then at a amusement park, where the three of us spent the afternoon together. It was fun but now maybe it wasn't such a great idea.

 

His wife told me she supported me meeting the kids at one point. That's when she offered to meet with all three of us to talk about my role in the kid's lives. MM was absolutely against it and I just felt like it was her being manipulative or something.

 

I wish we had thought of the kids more. She went away for a couple of weeks maybe two months after she threwhim out. He was home wiht th ekids and wanted me to meet them while she was away. She found out (the kids texted her) and she called me. they had already refused to meet me then and sshe and I had a really long talk. I told her all about fallig in love with MM and she told me all about the affairs she had discovered. Then she sent a mail with all the information. I just thought she was bing mean and trying to break us up but in that call she was calm and told me she didn't want him back but wanted me to know what he had been doing and that the kids hated me and that if she was my mother she would be worried about me.

 

She also suggested I get checked for STD's.

 

I have really screwed up. Those kids will never like me. I need to end this with him. He's going through something that has nothing to do with me. I think he really does think he loves me but I'm not sure he does.

 

Congratulations.

 

You have done what plenty of other OW have not done or tried to see until it hits them the hard way.

 

1.75% of relationships that begin as an affair last 5 years after exposure. There's a reason for that.

 

It is like trying to build on exploding sand. It wasn't stable to begin with, and now everything is shaking.

 

At this point you don't have much of a joint investment with him (aside from emotionally).

 

He may even some day in the not so distant future have his finances stabilized and not be in constant email communication with his wife (outside of parenting). He might work on his personal issues that led him to be a serial cheater. In a couple of years (conservative estimate) he might be able to begin to date in a healthy way and open the kids up slowly to the idea of him moving on and adding another member to the family.

 

But that is quite a time to wait for someone. He just doesn't seem to have the skill set to handle this sensitively with his children.

 

And by waiting for someone it would mean taking a huge step back from this circumstance when he has it settled and finished his divorce. That will take some time.

 

Often it is recommended for OW to back right off, go out, live life until his divorce is final and he's processed it. Don't spend time on a waiting list. If it is the real thing, then you'll reconnect down the line. No self-respecting man drags his love into a minefield to keep him company.

[dreamingoftigers]

Take your time at your job.

 

Find a new one.

 

Working with an ex is tough. But you pull through and find a better place to be and then give your notice.

 

I've worked with an ex. It sucks balls. But it won't be forever. Don't damage your career over this guy.

 

Here's another thing to take away from this fiasco:

don't get involved at work.

 

Yes its common, more common then ever. It also sucks when things 180 PLUS you never know for sure how much your partner keep his/her mouth shut about personal/relationship details.

[rosieisblue]

Rosie

 

I think the wife, if you are truly going to be in the children's life, genuinely wanted to talk to you about the kids. She is their mother so she reached out to you about them.

 

Let me ask you, has your MM ever talked about what kind of mother his wife was prior to dday? I would be willing to bet that if he was inclined to tell the truth, he would have to say that his wife loves the children to pieces and that she is a good mother.....Rosie, that is why she reached out to you about your role in the kids life, and that is why she instructed the kids to be nice to you.

 

Your MM didn't want you to talk to her because she knows more than she has told you and he never wants you to hear it all.

 

AND

 

In spite of all you have posted about her, all your fear and competitiveness that has been on full display here, ultimately, I think she feels sorry for you.

 

all he says is that she's a good mother but he doesn't think she's behaved well during the split and thinks she's tried to turn the kids against him and me.

[rosieisblue]

Take your time at your job.

 

Find a new one.

 

Working with an ex is tough. But you pull through and find a better place to be and then give your notice.

 

I've worked with an ex. It sucks balls. But it won't be forever. Don't damage your career over this guy.

 

Here's another thing to take away from this fiasco:

don't get involved at work.

 

Yes its common, more common then ever. It also sucks when things 180 PLUS you never know for sure how much your partner keep his/her mouth shut about personal/relationship details.

 

I will never get involved at work again. NEVER.

[rosieisblue]

Congratulations.

 

You have done what plenty of other OW have not done or tried to see until it hits them the hard way.

 

1.75% of relationships that begin as an affair last 5 years after exposure. There's a reason for that.

 

It is like trying to build on exploding sand. It wasn't stable to begin with, and now everything is shaking.

 

At this point you don't have much of a joint investment with him (aside from emotionally).

 

He may even some day in the not so distant future have his finances stabilized and not be in constant email communication with his wife (outside of parenting). He might work on his personal issues that led him to be a serial cheater. In a couple of years (conservative estimate) he might be able to begin to date in a healthy way and open the kids up slowly to the idea of him moving on and adding another member to the family.

 

But that is quite a time to wait for someone. He just doesn't seem to have the skill set to handle this sensitively with his children.

 

And by waiting for someone it would mean taking a huge step back from this circumstance when he has it settled and finished his divorce. That will take some time.

 

Often it is recommended for OW to back right off, go out, live life until his divorce is final and he's processed it. Don't spend time on a waiting list. If it is the real thing, then you'll reconnect down the line. No self-respecting man drags his love into a minefield to keep him company.

 

 

I just don't know how to end it. I really don't. I'ts going to be very difficult and I'm afraid he'll convince me to not end it. Help!

[awkward]

I just don't know how to end it. I really don't. I'ts going to be very difficult and I'm afraid he'll convince me to not end it. Help!

 

Tell him that you're pregnant. That should send him running.

 

Really you just say "It's over". Look me up when your 50 and I'll see if I'm still interested.

[PhoenixRise]

all he says is that she's a good mother but he doesn't think she's behaved well during the split and thinks she's tried to turn the kids against him and me.

 

 

Rosie

 

I think you should do yourself a huge favor and stop letting this MM think for you.

 

Both your MM and the KIDS have confirmed that the wife has told the children to be nice to you.

 

Rosie.....just try to think for yourself.

 

When you objectively put together everything he says and compare it to the objective facts of what actually happened, do you see any contradictions?

 

 

Does him saying she is turning the kids against him and you actually square with he and the kids saying the wife told the kids to be nice to you? Does it square to her reaching out to you regarding your place in the kids life? Does it square with her being kind and calm with you when she spoke to you on the phone?

 

Yes she is angry and hurt over the huge massive deceptions inflicted on her by him. He went after her friends and coworkers Rosie. Yes she is angry. She is right to be angry.

 

But just because she is angry doesn't mean she is turning the kids against him or you.

 

If you look objectively and realistically, HE/the father/ MM is the one who is turning the kids against him. They are angry at his actions. AND they are angry that YOU don't think THEIR time with their father is important enough for you to leave him alone when he is with them.

 

Do you really not see this Rosie?

 

 

Tell me....what part do you think MM has actively played in the deterioration of his relationship with his children?

 

What part did he play in the deterioration of his marriage?

 

What part is he playing in why the wife is angry now?

 

Is he responsible for anything, Rosie?

[MissBee]

all he says is that she's a good mother but he doesn't think she's behaved well during the split and thinks she's tried to turn the kids against him and me.

 

Behaved well??? Psshht...he's delusional for expecting a woman who has found out about his umpteenth affair to act all nice and protect him and you.

 

It's not a split...like a divorce where he was an adult and they discussed it, so it went down with as few fireworks as possible. he cheated, got caught and got kicked out and she simply told the kids that dad and her are divorcing because he loves someone else.

 

She didn't turn the kids against you or him and Rosie....you should have your own brain. You said you got a good education and good career...I don't know if you need to think critically for your job, but if so, apply the same line of thinking to this. The kids wouldn't like you no matter what the mom did or didn't do. You haven't ever said how she has turned them against you. HE turned them against himself by HIS actions. All she did was try to reach out and warn you, did you listen to her and get std tests? She tried to help you get in with her children. How horrible can she be in that case, especially given the circumstances? What did you guys want her to do? Lie for him? How would YOU react Rosie? What if 10 years from now MM or your husband, whom you have two kids with, you find out he has been cheating, for the 3rd time. What would you tell your kids when you decide to split? How would YOU treat his OW? Answer that honestly.

 

In any case use you seem to be opening your eyes to the discrepancies between "but MM says, but he says, he says he says" and WHAT IS! He has said a lot but most seem to not have any basis in reality.

[dreamingoftigers]

I just don't know how to end it. I really don't. I'ts going to be very difficult and I'm afraid he'll convince me to not end it. Help!

 

50 Ways To Leave Your Lover Lyrics - Paul Simon

 

or you can email his wife and ask how she did it.

 

She knows how to end it with him.

 

Customized dumping..... just for your MM.

[rosieisblue]

Rosie

 

I think you should do yourself a huge favor and stop letting this MM think for you.

 

Both your MM and the KIDS have confirmed that the wife has told the children to be nice to you.

 

Rosie.....just try to think for yourself.

 

When you objectively put together everything he says and compare it to the objective facts of what actually happened, do you see any contradictions?

 

 

Does him saying she is turning the kids against him and you actually square with he and the kids saying the wife told the kids to be nice to you? Does it square to her reaching out to you regarding your place in the kids life? Does it square with her being kind and calm with you when she spoke to you on the phone?

 

Yes she is angry and hurt over the huge massive deceptions inflicted on her by him. He went after her friends and coworkers Rosie. Yes she is angry. She is right to be angry.

 

But just because she is angry doesn't mean she is turning the kids against him or you.

 

If you look objectively and realistically, HE/the father/ MM is the one who is turning the kids against him. They are angry at his actions. AND they are angry that YOU don't think THEIR time with their father is important enough for you to leave him alone when he is with them.

 

Do you really not see this Rosie?

 

 

Tell me....what part do you think MM has actively played in the deterioration of his relationship with his children?

 

What part did he play in the deterioration of his marriage?

 

What part is he playing in why the wife is angry now?

 

Is he responsible for anything, Rosie?

 

I need to think all of that through. I can see what you're saying, though. Although she did so some crazy stuff at the beginning but I guess she was freaking out. And yes, I understand now that it was horrible for her.

 

I need to figure out what to say to him when he gets back. This is not going to be easy. I know he is going to come at me hard to not break up. But I don't think I can do this. I can't be in this situation. It's too crazy. Now I have to figure out how to stop loving him.

[dreamingoftigers]

I need to think all of that through. I can see what you're saying, though. Although she did so some crazy stuff at the beginning but I guess she was freaking out. And yes, I understand now that it was horrible for her.

 

I need to figure out what to say to him when he gets back. This is not going to be easy. I know he is going to come at me hard to not break up. But I don't think I can do this. I can't be in this situation. It's too crazy. Now I have to figure out how to stop loving him.

 

This part comes after disentangling him and you.

 

And it sucks.

 

But seriously better it sucks now then in 5 years from now, and much worse.

[PhoenixRise]

I just don't know how to end it. I really don't. I'ts going to be very difficult and I'm afraid he'll convince me to not end it. Help!

 

 

 

Rosie

 

I say this with the kindest of intentions. You need some help. You need some IC to help you figure out how you allowed yourself to get into such a trainwreck. You need help to figure out why you would ever be convinced to stay in such a trainwreck.

 

Does your insurance at your job cover therapy?

 

Because while I think this relationship is really really unhealthy I also think you need IRL help getting and staying out of it.

[rosieisblue]

50 Ways To Leave Your Lover Lyrics - Paul Simon

 

or you can email his wife and ask how she did it.

 

She knows how to end it with him.

 

Customized dumping..... just for your MM.

 

They argued all night and for a few days and then she asked him to leave. He wasn't willing to stop with me and that's when she started telling everyone and kicked him out.

[rosieisblue]

Rosie

 

I say this with the kindest of intentions. You need some help. You need some IC to help you figure out how you allowed yourself to get into such a trainwreck. You need help to figure out why you would ever be convinced to stay in such a trainwreck.

 

Does your insurance at your job cover therapy?

 

Because while I think this relationship is really really unhealthy I also think you need IRL help getting and staying out of it.

 

I can get therapy through work but that's not going to work if I switch jobs. I wonder if my parents would help me pay.

 

I don't know how I got involved. It was just so fun and we connected so quickly and easily and we fell in love so fast. It was just a whirlwind. It sort of happened before I realized what was happening.

 

This is also going to be embarrassing, at work and with family and friends.

[dreamingoftigers]

Seriously, don't throw your career under the bus over this dude.

 

Keep what you can of your rep intact and find another position that correlates in income etc.

 

He's the one that should be really embarrassed.

 

Are family and friends going to be judgmental about the break-up?

 

One would think that they would be relieved.

 

Just one day at a time.

[rosieisblue]

Seriously, don't throw your career under the bus over this dude.

 

Keep what you can of your rep intact and find another position that correlates in income etc.

 

He's the one that should be really embarrassed.

 

Are family and friends going to be judgmental about the break-up?

 

One would think that they would be relieved.

 

Just one day at a time.

 

I think they'll think I was foolish to start this to begin with, because I raved about our love and how great he was and all that so it's going to be embarrassing to say that maybe it wasn't what I thought.

[MissBee]

I can get therapy through work but that's not going to work if I switch jobs. I wonder if my parents would help me pay.

 

I don't know how I got involved. It was just so fun and we connected so quickly and easily and we fell in love so fast. It was just a whirlwind. It sort of happened before I realized what was happening.

 

This is also going to be embarrassing, at work and with family and friends.

 

Run from whirlwinds! It's like a twister that picks you up and spits you out most times.

 

Most of the good relationships I've heard of and witnessed weren't whirlwinds...however, countless train wrecks start as whirlwind romances.

 

I got caught up in that with my ex...feeling like the quickness meant a deeper or truer connection. No, the quickness allowed me not to see or ignore the red flags and invest way too much, too fast into a situation that wasn't right. Taking things slow allows you to actually discover who the person is, to reflect, to see if they are worth greater levels of your time, emotions and commitment. Whirlwinds hardly allow for that, so people are high on the fun of the whirlwind, then it eventually stops, and often what they see is rubble after a storm and not much to build on.

[dreamingoftigers]

Ah yes,

 

they should chide you for your naive nature. Because that's how most people learn from their mistakes.

 

And when you realize a misstep, they should look on in judgment.

 

Are you sure that you aren't a cousin in my family? LOL

 

Who knows how many have been in/ will be in similar circumstances.

 

We've all had mates that haven't turned out to be what we thought they were in the beginning.

 

As I've gotten older I see what the older folks were talking about with being cautious, not getting caught up so quickly, watching for signs and clues etc.

 

When we are younger, if we haven't had that solid framework we only understand that we are experiencing a powerful force and that its feel supernatural and so very natural at the same time.

 

There are certain stimuli that excrete oxytocin which causes us to trust whom we are dealing with, especially if there is a natural chemistry. That can overwhelm any sense, especially in the beginning. That's why it is safer to develop relationships slowly, solidly over time.

 

That's why it will be hard to face MM and break it off. Your natural chemistry will fight quite hard saying "trust him trust him, this part of your brain hasn't quite evolved yet, it hasn't evolved in any human being yet, you are in the jungle and have been having intercourse, stick by this guy or you might get eaten by a lion, you don't want to lose him."

 

I know that sounds a little nuts, but it's kind of accurate. We can get bonded pretty chemically fast to people who may not be any good for us, sex bonds us even faster.

[rosieisblue]

Run from whirlwinds! It's like a twister that picks you up and spits you out most times.

 

Most of the good relationships I've heard of and witnessed weren't whirlwinds...however, countless train wrecks start as whirlwind romances.

 

I got caught up in that with my ex...feeling like the quickness meant a deeper or truer connection. No, the quickness allowed me not to see or ignore the red flags and invest way too much, too fast into a situation that wasn't right. Taking things slow allows you to actually discover who the person is, to reflect, to see if they are worth greater levels of your time, emotions and commitment. Whirlwinds hardly allow for that, so people are high on the fun of the whirlwind, then it eventually stops, and often what they see is rubble after a storm and not much to build on.

 

his family's life is already rubble, i think and I'm sorry I was part of causing all that pain and anger and hurt. I'm really sorry for his kids. They didn't deserve this.

[PhoenixRise]

I think they'll think I was foolish to start this to begin with, because I raved about our love and how great he was and all that so it's going to be embarrassing to say that maybe it wasn't what I thought.

 

Rosie

 

There may be some who will rub your nose in it but the reality is, there is no adult person on the face of this Earth who hasn't had to eat crow at some point.

 

Don't let fear of other people's opinion be the excuse that keeps you in an unhealthy situation.

 

And regarding the IC, you aren't going to just up and quit your job are you? Aren't you going wait until you get other employment first?

 

Use your insurance to pay for IC now while you are still at that job.

 

Get some help to figure this out Rosie. I am pretty sure you never want to be in this position again, so get the IC needed to make sure you understand how you got here in the first place.

[truthbetold]

Rosie, I'm realy happy for you if you are indeed serious about getting out of this. It does seem you are waking up.

 

I'm surprised too that you didn't realize this was classic mid life crisis. and I don't mean this unkindly, that you could have been "anyone" that would have been willing.

 

You said you guys were just friends and just talking about things at work before anything happened. Like the W freaked if he left a sock on the living room floor. Okay think about that, is that appropriate talk between work collegues or is that designed to draw you in and feel like his confidante and start setting the stage for him to whine about what a bitch his wife is and how he just needs some love?

 

He has no boundaries Rosie, you don't cross certain lines like that. Not that I would ever find respect for this guy, but that's just disgusting to put his everyday marriage things and twist them out of context to lure women. It's just disgusting. He did prey on your falling for his charm and the fact you were in a bad relationship. Make no mistake about that.

 

And definately look at the timeline for the vacation. He lied if he said he was on his way out after Christmas if he was commited to a vacation in the Summer. He would have spun more lies if his wife didn't find out. Think about that Rosie, get mad about that.

 

How do you end it? You think what a lying conniving man he is to get what he wants and masks it with fake charm. And reach deep to find your anger and what he did to you.

[angie2443]

 

The reason I'm sharing this with you is to show you that there are men and there are boys. The MM in this story is a boy. He puts himself first. His children are way down on the list. He is worried about his happiness only.

 

.

 

Maybe this is off topic, but, having three sons, I feel the need to say something here. My sons are between the ages of three and eight. They are loving, intellegent people. They're kids, so of coures they have their moments. However, even at their young age, they show many signs of empathy and caring towards others. They, usually, take responsibility for what they do and have an understanding that there are consequences for their actions. Sometimes they complain, but they are kids still, and they are growing, inside and out, every day. It makes no sense to me to call grown men boys.

 

These MMs ( the really nasty ones like OP's MM) are grownups. They make choices knowing fully well that they are harming their children for their own selfish wants. They know how to act "decently" when their image is at stake. They certainly know what they are doing when they are hurting others.

[awkward]

It makes no sense to me to call grown men boys.

 

 

I agree with you. Even when my son was a young boy, he was kind, caring, and considerate. It was a poor choice of words on my part. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

I guess the nicest thing I can call him would be selfish.

[angie2443]

I think they'll think I was foolish to start this to begin with, because I raved about our love and how great he was and all that so it's going to be embarrassing to say that maybe it wasn't what I thought.

 

Welcome to the club, rosie. What you did was foolish, and you probably will be embarrased. Own it, learn from it, and move on. Most of us have done foolish things in our twenties that we look back on and think, "what was I thinking??". It's part of life. If you can learn from it, it's one of those things that helps you grow as a humane bieng.

[Trimmer]

I never looked at it as being wrong to put his son on the phone.

Rosie - I'll give you a perspective from a divorced dad: it was totally wrong to put his son on the phone.

 

I give thanks every day that my ex and I worked hard NOT to put our kids in the middle of our split. We avoided doing anything we could to put them in a position of having to pick sides, to decide loyalties, or to have to defend their positions or their relationships with either one of us.

 

So putting his son on the phone with you, right in the middle of the family coming apart... It's so odd, from a parental perspective, I can't even imagine what he was thinking. (Edited to clarify, in recognition of Pierre's post above: he was thinking about himself, and he was NOT thinking of his son.)

 

And I want to note - you mentioned thinking about having a family some day. You will need to figure out what your parenting philosophy will be, ane you want to be with someone with similar philosophies, and whose judgment regarding your children you believe you can trust.

 

I never looked at it that way. I just thought it was nice that he was so attentive to me even when away from me. And I thought if I told his son how much I liked his dad he might try to understand. Stupid, I guess.

I'm not going to call you stupid, but you don't understand kids in the middle of a family breakup. We all like to think "they just want their parents to be happy" but that's our adult projection that doesn't really mean anything. What they want is their family back together again, just like it was before. Anything else is unsafe, scary, and causes much anxiety. Being gently clear with them that this is permanent is important so they don't have false hope, but that's a job for the parents. Trying to convince them of the next-best-thing consolation prize (Someone makes dad happy...) is not the least bit helpful. And you being the agent pushing to convince them (on the phone, at the amusement park...) just exacerbates that anxiety. Sorry, but that's the way it is with kids. They don't think like mature adults do, so you can't assume they will reason things out that way.

 

He has also done a surprise meeting with his younger son. Once in a shop for a few minutes and then at a amusement park, where the three of us spent the afternoon together. It was fun but now maybe it wasn't such a great idea.

He took advantage of his son's innocence. That son may have been young enough not to get what was going on. But when he processes things later, he may develop some feelings of betrayal - maybe even directed toward his father - for "duping" him in that way.

 

His wife told me she supported me meeting the kids at one point. That's when she offered to meet with all three of us to talk about my role in the kid's lives. MM was absolutely against it and I just felt like it was her being manipulative or something.

I think it was likely an incredibly gracious offer. Somehow, in spite of the mess she was in, she was willing to take the bullet and try to do what was best for the kids.

 

I think you said earlier in the thread, something like "we can't change the past, so why don't we just make the best of it?" Isn't that EXACTLY what the wife's offer to meet with you indicates? She may not like it, but she was willing to try to do the thing that would be best for her kids, even if it was painful and uncomfortable for her.

 

Her husband, on the other hand, seems always to have centered his decisions and behaviors on what would make things best and easiest for him.

 

I wish we had thought of the kids more. She went away for a couple of weeks maybe two months after she threwhim out. He was home wiht th ekids and wanted me to meet them while she was away. She found out (the kids texted her) and she called me. they had already refused to meet me then and sshe and I had a really long talk. I told her all about fallig in love with MM and she told me all about the affairs she had discovered. Then she sent a mail with all the information. I just thought she was bing mean and trying to break us up but in that call she was calm and told me she didn't want him back but wanted me to know what he had been doing and that the kids hated me and that if she was my mother she would be worried about me.

 

She also suggested I get checked for STD's.

Wow... you have to admit, the empathy and grace she showed for you is pretty astounding.

 

I think they'll think I was foolish to start this to begin with, because I raved about our love and how great he was and all that so it's going to be embarrassing to say that maybe it wasn't what I thought.

You know, they may well be holding their breath, supporting you as family will, but hoping.... hoping.... that you'll make the right decision. They may well be greatly relieved. And you may well seem to have made a sensible decision. You should have confidence in that decision.

 

If they supported you taking up with a married man who was not yet even separated and hadn't even taken any action to leave his marriage yet, I have to imagine they will support you if you decide that's not the best thing for you in the long run, right?

Edited July 10, 2012 by Trimmer