writergal Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Noo, I was right then, because I gave you two choices, and obviously you are of the latter. I don't think we can all blame plastic surgery on vanity; I had fat atrophy on my face at 23, which you can read on my Long Distance Relationship forum thread. I used to believe everything you say and planned on aging gracefully as I took very good care of my skin. And due to my ignorance of the cosmetic surgery world, I naively found myself in the hands of people I thought to be estheticians who did FACIALS (which I also never had had before) but instead caused damage to the fat that both protects my skin from UV penetration and allows people to age "gracefully". I imagine you were stunning when you were 23 as well, but can you imagine if all of a sudden, your face looks like that of concentration camp survivor, and people start treating you in a genuinely hostile manner? The reality of it hurts. Well your ignorance of the cosmetic surgery world is yours to own, and has nothing to do with my experiences with facials. It's unfortunate you had a negative experience with a facial but that's why you need to really investigate it thoroughly before you do it. Look at that woman who had cement injected into her buttocks by a fake plastic surgeon. Cops: Fake doc injected woman's buttocks with cement - Crimesider - CBS News She went the cheap route without doing any investigation first and look what happened to her. The only justification I see for plastic surgery would be in the case of covering up a cleft palate or to correct a deformity somewhere on the body. But for beauty's sake is where I disagree with plastic surgery.
Author Celtica Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Well your ignorance of the cosmetic surgery world is yours to own, and has nothing to do with my experiences with facials. It's unfortunate you had a negative experience with a facial but that's why you need to really investigate it thoroughly before you do it. Yes, unfortunately I was one of the unlucky ones... And so are you saying I should let it be and that my desire to get something done is for beauty's sake? All I'm saying is that if you can never understand anyone else's choices in life unless you've experienced them as well. For now you are blissfully ignorant of what it means to be less than average.
writergal Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Yes, unfortunately I was one of the unlucky ones... And so are you saying I should let it be and that my desire to get something done is for beauty's sake? What happened to you is because of your choices, and has nothing to do with my opinion or my experiences. Like I said, you are entitled to have something done for beauty's sake, but that's not something I'd ever do. All I'm saying is that if you can never understand anyone else's choices in life unless you've experienced them as well. For now you are blissfully ignorant of what it means to be less than average. You couldn't be more wrong about that.
Author Celtica Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 I'm not entirely happy with the way I look, but I can't imagine having surgery to alter my looks, either. I feel better when I feel cleared and stronger through exercise, as well as when it helped me to look better, but feeling that you look good can obviously give one a boost. . I commend your honesty. Prior to any unwanted procedure I had, I felt the same way. Health was the new beauty. And I guess it still is. What is your age, might I ask, for perspectives sake?
Author Celtica Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 You couldn't be more wrong about that. Pardon my ignorance, might you elaborate for discussion's sake?
writergal Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Pardon my ignorance, might you elaborate for discussion's sake? No. I've said everything I need to regarding the OP's question and my discussion with you.
Author Celtica Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Well I apologize if I was being brusk. Thank you anyway for your opinions.
Anela Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 I commend your honesty. Prior to any unwanted procedure I had, I felt the same way. Health was the new beauty. And I guess it still is. What is your age, might I ask, for perspectives sake? 37, and I panicked over the first wrinkle. I envy those who say that they want to grow old and grey. I used to be bothered by my chubby cheeks (when I smiled, I thought my face looked huge), but now I miss the collagen that's slowly disappearing. It seems as though there's always something wrong, and that bothers me - if I don't find it to be wrong, then others might come along and try to convince me that it is. I really wish that we could all feel this way, at any age.
writergal Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Well I apologize if I was being brusk. Thank you anyway for your opinions. Oh Celtica, apology not necessary. Be brusk. It's who you are. This is a discussion forum after all. Opinions either jibe or clash. That's part of the experience posting here. I appreciate your strong opinions and hope you can sort out your facial issue. 1
writergal Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) I really wish that we could all feel this way, at any age. Maya Angelou hit the nail on the head with that poem. The poem is about accepting yourself as you are, not as how you think society wants you to be. We all have imperfections. The trick is not to let those imperfections influence how you feel about yourself or the choices you make. Edited July 4, 2012 by writergal 2
Leigh 87 Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Well your ignorance of the cosmetic surgery world is yours to own, and has nothing to do with my experiences with facials. It's unfortunate you had a negative experience with a facial but that's why you need to really investigate it thoroughly before you do it. Look at that woman who had cement injected into her buttocks by a fake plastic surgeon. Cops: Fake doc injected woman's buttocks with cement - Crimesider - CBS News She went the cheap route without doing any investigation first and look what happened to her. The only justification I see for plastic surgery would be in the case of covering up a cleft palate or to correct a deformity somewhere on the body. But for beauty's sake is where I disagree with plastic surgery. ' What is wrong with a 3/10, a pretty unnatractive girl, to want to be average looking? It does not mean they will work on their personality less - they could very well still strive to be the best versions of themselves. There is nothing wrong with people who like it better when they look good. I was very ugly, and life is far better for me now that I am not ugly. Sorry, but people who are ugly have to work harder to enjoy life. I LOVE the added bonuses of being attractive - average - guys are attracted to you sexually -you get the thrill of guys getting horny over you, where as an ugly person has to wait to find a guy who loves them; dating casually can be fun, and guys do not have to love u before they are attracted to you. - you get jobs easier - it improvess your confidence, which in turn, attracts more people to you. My life would have been ay worse if I stayed ugly, with my deformed teeth. Not being able to speak properly sucked and I had no friends because of it. I know women with noses that are SO HUGE that it looks ridiculous. They can go from being unnatractive, to having nose job, and being appealing to 90% more people.
Author Celtica Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Oh Celtica, apology not necessary. Be brusk. It's who you are. This is a discussion forum after all. Opinions either jibe or clash. That's part of the experience posting here. I appreciate your strong opinions and hope you can sort out your facial issue. I like your perspective. And I appreciate you challenging my opinions with your own. Oh I'm so formal... But really, your voice was the missing link in the thread, I think. 1
MuscleCarFan Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 I personally do not like the way I like because I am just an average looking guy, but I think aging gracefully is the way to go. Plastic surgery just seems too fake to me unless it is for medical reasons of course. 1
writergal Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 I like your perspective. And I appreciate you challenging my opinions with your own. Oh I'm so formal... But really, your voice was the missing link in the thread, I think. Thanks! I wish I could be like a lot of posters who consistently post polite, uplifting, supportive, and nurturing posts. I'm more like dual brush; stiff and bristly on one side, soft on the other. Your formality is wonderful. I'm just a loud American. My voice was the missing link in the thread? Wow, thanks for the compliment. Truly. 1
Leigh 87 Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 But what is so bad about a person wanting to look better? Being ugly is not as fun as being average or attractive, in my own personal experience. Why not fix a huge, crooked nose? I am not saying my nose is that bad, but I have seen women with GIGATIC noses, who get a nose job, and excude more confidence. If the women had not told me of her nose job, I would never have guessed. Because she was a remarkable, compelling women. Even though she enjoys looking better. I have ever thought wanting to pay to look moer attractive was a sigh of weakness; it is a choice. It is natural for many people to feel better when they look better. It does not discount the fact they want to improve themselves beyond the physical side. ........can someone give me a straight answer, as to WHY an ugly person, who is really, truly ugly, would be better off to try to make do with it? Why are they less of a person for wanting to look better?
Author Celtica Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 I agree, Leigh 87... I was the "ugly duckling" of many until the age of about 21, which I then became red hot, mainly with the help of teeth bleaching and a developed passion for long distance running. It boosted my confidence to the nth degree, but it was short lived (2 years). It's similar to a man finally reaching his goal of success in a Fortune 500 and is then framed for company theft, fired, and left on the streets. I'll try to think of more metaphors... It's like Eve taking a bite of an apple from the forbidden tree... But those 2 years of glory were pure bliss... And I wish I could get them back. Many men definitely did treat me differently, and it is very interesting that I can now see when a man is purely nice to a woman because of her looks. At the same time, I have to say it's also nice when a handsome guy is genuinely nice to me knowing it's not due to my looks. I understand what you're saying and I agree for the most part, though I've had a few wake-up calls from members on other threads I've started. I completely understand what you're saying. 1
xxoo Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Noo, I was right then, because I gave you two choices, and obviously you are of the latter. I don't think we can all blame plastic surgery on vanity; I had fat atrophy on my face at 23, which you can read on my Long Distance Relationship forum thread. I used to believe everything you say and planned on aging gracefully as I took very good care of my skin. And due to my ignorance of the cosmetic surgery world, I naively found myself in the hands of people I thought to be estheticians who did FACIALS (which I also never had had before) but instead caused damage to the fat that both protects my skin from UV penetration and allows people to age "gracefully". I imagine you were stunning when you were 23 as well, but can you imagine if all of a sudden, your face looks like that of concentration camp survivor, and people start treating you in a genuinely hostile manner? The reality of it hurts. Celtica, I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. I would categorize what happened to you as an "injury", and procedures to correct it as "reconstructive". Personally, I have different feelings about reconstructive procedures (returning you to your own normal for age) vs strictly cosmetic procedures (attempting to look younger than age). Personally, I do not believe I will have any procedures to slow the aging process. I don't even plan to color my hair, which is already showing strands of gray. Lucky for me, I married a guy who appreciates age on a woman.
carhill Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 Not that you're perspectives will affect my decisions BUT just out of curiosity's sake. If a lady got plastic surgery that looked completely natural but you found out later, what would you think, feel, do? And a breast augmentation? Saggy or perky and fake? And NOW there are brazilian butt lifts, i.e. fat transfer from the stomach to the butt (mainly in FL). Hmm... Based on life experience, naturally 'ugly', though I generally don't describe humans in that way. I've met a pretty substantial sampling of women whom, upon first glance, aren't my cuppa, but then I start to wonder why my dick is getting hard, as well as the reverse, meaning an objectively hot lady who gets a flat line from johnson. Attraction is a strange beast. Regarding specifics, like breast augmentation, all my partners have been 'natural' and have varied from well-endowed to looking like an adolescent boy with big nipples and I haven't noted any positive correlation between attraction and sagginess, perkiness, size, etc. All of my partners, absent my exW, were mothers so had the typical changes to their bodies which come with motherhood, in varying degrees. Again, all 'natural'. OTOH, when I stopped by my exW's a couple weeks ago, I was commenting to myself that she was looking like Joan Rivers. I wonder, post-D, if she didn't have some work done. If so, I'm glad I knew and loved her when she was 'natural'. 3
Author Celtica Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 OTOH, when I stopped by my exW's a couple weeks ago, I was commenting to myself that she was looking like Joan Rivers. I wonder, post-D, if she didn't have some work done. If so, I'm glad I knew and loved her when she was 'natural'. I see you are from California... Is it stereotypically true that most women are considered "over the hill" by the age of 18? My mother mentioned this as she used to live there. Is it safe to say you are a rare breed in such a location?
Negative Nancy Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 ........can someone give me a straight answer, as to WHY an ugly person, who is really, truly ugly, would be better off to try to make do with it? Why are they less of a person for wanting to look better? because some of them still stay ugly and annoying on the inside and outside, no matter how much plastic surgery they have gotten done to fix what's on the outside 1
FitChick Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 I've never understood why someone would be so worried about getting a stranger's approval or disapproval for something they want to do to their own body. Will the Nanny State soon dictate our appearance and tax us if we don't comply? Men want their women to look good and they don't really care how you accomplish it. For most women (and men), the easiest and cheapest way to look better is to push away from the table and get off your fat arse.
Author Celtica Posted July 4, 2012 Author Posted July 4, 2012 Hmm, wouldn't say that is what I am getting at here. While it is nice to be treated well by others, I'd be doing it for the sake getting back a lost youth. But, do elaborate if you are specifically referring to something in particular....
carhill Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 I see you are from California... Is it stereotypically true that most women are considered "over the hill" by the age of 18? My mother mentioned this as she used to live there. Is it safe to say you are a rare breed in such a location? IMO, that opinion is likely more prevalent in the large cities, like Los Angeles and San Francisco. My exW is from the OC (LA area) and she did mention that looks and status are pretty important there, socially, so I would presume that would translate to dating as well. Within my social circle of males, relevant to this subject, I'm probably more outlier than a 'rare breed', based upon conversations. However, when it comes to actions, I look around at the ladies these guys are married to, some more than 30 years now, and see the same 'real' and 'natural' and 'human' that my perhaps outlier statements describe. Those are the ladies they're committed to. I was similar for a decade and our D had nothing to do with looks or age or plastic surgery. That said, Cali has some well-earned stereotypes for superficiality and I guess it's a fair point. I've never been much of a conformist
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