The power of the relationship lies with whoever cares less

[Ninjainpajamas]

You need to have a reasonable balance and also It's extremely important to make sure that the person is on the same page or at least in the realm of willing to accept your expressive emotions.

 

If you find yourself in an outpouring emotional state of expression with someone you just met, then the chances are you are moving too fast, and keeping that intensity too strongly doesn't give enough time for all the other pieces to fall into place.

 

I am an extremely emotional and expressive guy, very likely more than you and most men and I also have the ability to articulate what I'm feeling fairly well...but that doesn't mean I go overkill on every girl I meet or in general, or smother someone in a relationship...in fact I don't even reveal that side of myself as openly, however that depends on the circumstance and context as well...I've written some very vulnerable and emotional filled journals/blogs in my day than I'm sure the majority of men would sh*t their pants out of vulnerability just telling their SO, and would probably never attempt it. Whenever I feel like expressing myself I try to do so indirectly (usually) not just towards or for someone, for me it's a release It's something I need to constantly pour out every now and again so it doesn't become too much and start altering my behavior.

 

It's extremely important to gauge where the other person is in the relationship and check yourself If it's too much, personally I don't have that problem because I am very confident, sure of myself and constantly respect myself so that I make sure I'm not selling myself short..and that's another important key, If you're giving this outpouring to someone who isn't open to receiving it, then why give it? I deserve someone who has the doors opens to how I feel, I'm not just going to throw my emotions against a wall or someone who was not interested in me.

 

However I don't find myself in that situation, my expression as a whole has never been in a problem...only If I were to turn up the heat too quickly, because regardless of how calm, cool and confident I appear to be in real life to most people I meet, I feel a lot, I'm actually pretty sensitive to a lot of things and with women I don't just be with them on a physical or one dimensional level, for me It's a bonding experience in many shapes and forms.

 

When I was younger I used to think I was strong If I could not feel, or was able to be the "man" in a relationship knowing she felt so strongly for me and I was just under control and cool about it, I thought it was something to be prideful about not being able to be hurt or feel vulnerable regardless of the situation...like I think many guys do to shield themselves from actually getting hurt...because women are supposed to get hurt, not us guys, we're supposed to be tough and take it like a man...but I realized that I was lying to myself. I wasn't truly strong If I was always hiding or scared, that isn't what makes a man. Being a man is having the courage and confidence to open that door that you're scared to go through instead of running away and acting like a bad ass...It would be like sitting in a tank when everyone else has sling shots and then feeling like the slickest guy in the world because you kept everything else...just because you sit in a tank with women and you don't put yourself out there to get hurt, doesn't make you man, kinda makes you more of a p*ssy don't you think?

 

So don't be afraid of who you are, just learn how to wield in and be appropriate with it and expect more for yourself. I am a weird combination of a man myself and I can relate to the men that are sensitive and the men who are protected and disconnected, I'm in a way a little bit of everything, or maybe a lot.

[denise_xo]

I guess that I’m still too much the ‘I need you and I need you to spend time with me’-guy. But when two people meet, don’t we all want that? You think about each other constantly, you want him/her so badly. You feel like it’s better to be with him/her than be alone.

 

Yes and no. I think that's part of initial falling in love/infatuation. But I think we have to recognise it as that. As time goes on, IMO it's unhealthy for a relationship if the two parties in it don't have other things in their lives that also keep them happy. It provides for more balance in the long run.

 

Rather than framing it as 'I can't be myself' (which is a very static perspective), maybe you can approach it as an issue of communication skills? There are many different ways to convey the same message.

[Algermas]

To the OP, when I like a guy, I totally want him to be needy, clingy, and, furthermore, making all kinds of proclamations of adoration.

 

When I first met my long-term boyfriend (in late 2004), he wrote me long, long emails that just talked about things (interests, outlook on life, various viewpoints/opinions, etc.), but it almost always included some mushiness, too.

 

If the girl likes you, you can do no wrong, even if you're being totally vulnerable and loving.

 

If a guy acts that way with me and it "turns me off," I just don't like him much in the first place.

 

It's true that when a person you like becomes (or is) "out of your emotional reach" somehow, you burn with passion for him/her. But that does not mean you don't also burn with passion for people who are within your reach, if you like them. In the former case, you feel passion but insecurity. In the latter case, you feel passion and a sense of security (which obviously is better).

 

OP, this is an extremely rare exception to the rule. Also take into account that women generally lie 180 degrees about what they like in a man.

[Algermas]

I’m not going to treat her badly to keep her interested. I want to show my affection, but I don’t want to come across too needy. I know that I can live without her, I know that I don’t need her to feel happy. I learned this stuff after my first real relationship. But I do feel a bit overly enthusiastic about her. The hard part for me is figuring out if I’m still portraying healthy behavior or not.

 

If you want to show females affection and not have them run the opposite direction stick to your daughters, sisters, mothers, grandmothers, cousins and aunts.

 

Women not related to you by blood are for ****ing, not loving.

[Els]

Be that as it may, why would you even want to BE in a relationship that is all about 'power' and who holds it?

[Thierro]

I've always been an honest person. I don't believe in games or hiding things. They're dishonest to me.

 

With that said, I do believe that everybody subconsciously is always playing the game. My ex thought I was adorable whenever I was nervous, but during the BU, she was completely apathetic to that part about me. I guess that's a weak analogy, but...

 

I've always been true to my heart. The "I love you's" are always exchanged equally, but the differences were that in all of my relationships, I truly did care. They obviously stopped caring as much, or else they wouldn't be gone. They wouldn't have emotionally checked out of the relationship, cheated on me, entered G.I.G.S., whatever.

 

I've had my share of girls who were 13 to women at age 50. If anything, older women to me tend to be more jaded past a certain age and illogical with what they want, while the younger ones tend to want to have fun, not know what they want, and make some really stupid, hurtful mistakes.

 

With that said, the only girls clinging to me are the ones who know I don't give a rat's ass. I then start giving a rat's ass, then after a LTR, the power flips. I care; they stop caring and eventually leave.

 

Yes, relationships are a game, but so is life. So is war. There are winners and losers. Winners in relationships happen to both be winners. With that said, relationships are all about psychology, and let's face it...much of psychology is a power struggle.

 

This all comes from personal experience. I have never met a single person who didn't fall out of love with me after they knew that I actually loved them. The only exes that ever tried to come back to me were ones that I completely stopped caring about. The ones that I would be interested in reconciling with don't care about me romantically at all. Maybe I should listen to myself for this past BU LOL.

 

PUA tactics work on everybody. The reason being that nobody who is single is 100% secure, unless they enjoy being single. If they're single and are wanting a relationship, then they're wanting something that they don't have. Does that already sound familiar? What tends to happen post-BU/G.I.G.S. after a period of NC? Hell, why are people so complacent and neglectful, taking their SOs for granted during the relationship, then freak the hell out after BU? People psychologically want what they don't have.

 

Ever really wanted something, bought it, then all of a sudden, you don't really care about it as much anymore? That's the angle that almost all PUA/DJ strategies work.

 

People want what they don’t have is very true. The problem with this, is that no matter what you do in the long run, it will always end badly. So to me, every relationships dies out. You give them what they need, but after a while they look for things in a person that you don’t have. Being in a relationship is like a rollercoaster. You decide to go on it based on the way it looks and the experience of the ride itself. It may be fun for a while, but it will eventually get boring.

 

The girl that I am talking about is 18 and I am 25. She is very young. I know how much a person can change and develop different wants and needs at that stage in their life. So I am absolutely sure that this isn’t going to last.

The girls that are clinging to me are the ones who know I don't care about them all that much as well. It’s frustrating how that works.

 

You need to have a reasonable balance and also It's extremely important to make sure that the person is on the same page or at least in the realm of willing to accept your expressive emotions.

 

If you find yourself in an outpouring emotional state of expression with someone you just met, then the chances are you are moving too fast, and keeping that intensity too strongly doesn't give enough time for all the other pieces to fall into place.

 

I am an extremely emotional and expressive guy, very likely more than you and most men and I also have the ability to articulate what I'm feeling fairly well...but that doesn't mean I go overkill on every girl I meet or in general, or smother someone in a relationship...in fact I don't even reveal that side of myself as openly, however that depends on the circumstance and context as well...I've written some very vulnerable and emotional filled journals/blogs in my day than I'm sure the majority of men would sh*t their pants out of vulnerability just telling their SO, and would probably never attempt it. Whenever I feel like expressing myself I try to do so indirectly (usually) not just towards or for someone, for me it's a release It's something I need to constantly pour out every now and again so it doesn't become too much and start altering my behavior.

 

It's extremely important to gauge where the other person is in the relationship and check yourself If it's too much, personally I don't have that problem because I am very confident, sure of myself and constantly respect myself so that I make sure I'm not selling myself short..and that's another important key, If you're giving this outpouring to someone who isn't open to receiving it, then why give it? I deserve someone who has the doors opens to how I feel, I'm not just going to throw my emotions against a wall or someone who was not interested in me.

 

However I don't find myself in that situation, my expression as a whole has never been in a problem...only If I were to turn up the heat too quickly, because regardless of how calm, cool and confident I appear to be in real life to most people I meet, I feel a lot, I'm actually pretty sensitive to a lot of things and with women I don't just be with them on a physical or one dimensional level, for me It's a bonding experience in many shapes and forms.

 

When I was younger I used to think I was strong If I could not feel, or was able to be the "man" in a relationship knowing she felt so strongly for me and I was just under control and cool about it, I thought it was something to be prideful about not being able to be hurt or feel vulnerable regardless of the situation...like I think many guys do to shield themselves from actually getting hurt...because women are supposed to get hurt, not us guys, we're supposed to be tough and take it like a man...but I realized that I was lying to myself. I wasn't truly strong If I was always hiding or scared, that isn't what makes a man. Being a man is having the courage and confidence to open that door that you're scared to go through instead of running away and acting like a bad ass...It would be like sitting in a tank when everyone else has sling shots and then feeling like the slickest guy in the world because you kept everything else...just because you sit in a tank with women and you don't put yourself out there to get hurt, doesn't make you man, kinda makes you more of a p*ssy don't you think?

 

So don't be afraid of who you are, just learn how to wield in and be appropriate with it and expect more for yourself. I am a weird combination of a man myself and I can relate to the men that are sensitive and the men who are protected and disconnected, I'm in a way a little bit of everything, or maybe a lot.

 

The reasonable balance you are talking about is something I am trying to grasp desperately. I wish there was some sort of gauge that tells me that I am balanced enough. I need society/experience to tell me that I am doing a good job. How the hell am I supposed to figure that out on my own? What I mentioned earlier on, is that I try to evaluate the way she reacts to me whenever I say or do something. I usually try to make girls as horny as possible. This tells me I am doing a good job as a man. She needs to let me know how much she misses me and wants me and wants to be with me. How else do I know that our relationship is healthy? I need to keep pushing her buttons. It’s not easy to keep a girl interested for years to come. Monogamy isn’t even natural in human relationships.

 

I’m clearly no alpha male. I am insecure and I do care about what a girl thinks. I can pretend and lie, but I am not going to feel good about that.

 

I’m not afraid of who I am. Like Denise mentioned, personality isn’t static. I just get a little lost in finding a healthy attitude between myself and others.

[Jane2011]

I really really want this to be the general consensus. She likes me a lot. But the thing is, I always need to initiate contact. So if I follow Monkey’s advice on this, there will be no communication next to the real dates. She never texts me or sends me e-mails (even her responses to my long e-mails seem short). When I tell her how much I like her she will reciprocate. She tells me how much she wants to be alone with me. How much she wants this to turn out into a great relationship. She barely talks to me when we are together because she is so damn shy. But she has a great personality and having her around me feels wonderful. However, if I can’t have a good conversation with her, things will go south eventually. The more affectionate and needy I come across, so will she.

 

Like your boyfriend, Jane, I as well like sending her long e-mails talking about my outlook on life, various viewpoints/opinions and they always have some mushiness. In my last e-mail I talked about how nice it would be to take my car out and go wherever I want. I was being philosophical about it. I told her how much I would enjoy it to share that experience with her. I ended the e-mail talking about how the car breaks down in the pouring rain slowly starting out in a sexual fantasy.

 

I’m not going to treat her badly to keep her interested. I want to show my affection, but I don’t want to come across too needy. I know that I can live without her, I know that I don’t need her to feel happy. I learned this stuff after my first real relationship. But I do feel a bit overly enthusiastic about her. The hard part for me is figuring out if I’m still portraying healthy behavior or not.

 

 

Nice to hear you're in love. I guess I will qualify my first post to you. When I say being "needy, clingy" is fine if the girl likes you, I mean being available plenty and contacting plenty. If she likes you, she'll like it and she'll want to contact you plenty, too. You don't need to actually be saying things like "I need you and can't live without you" constantly. A little of that might be okay, but you do need to draw some line between showing affection and being downright scary. "I miss you" and "Can't wait to see you tonight" are mushy enough but are a little less scary than "I need you and can't live without you" repeated over and over. (Not that you are making such statements, just saying).

 

If you have mushy thoughts, intermingle them with the other things going on in your mind. I did have a guy a long time ago who wrote me very needy, clingy emails, and it was ALL he wrote, how much he needs/desires...etc. I actually thought he was a bit pathetic, but MIND YOU, I also just didn't like the guy that much. Him doing that or not didn't make a difference. He wasn't my personality type based on the way he talked (voice/accent), his background, lifestyle, education-level, etc. That same thing coming from another guy would have been amazing, if still a bit overboard. The boyfriend I spoke of in my first post actually expounded on his thoughts on things, and then would end with an "I miss you" or just some other sweet sentiment. It's a huge amount of pressure for someone to think they're the ONLY thing on your mind and that you're obsessed. It's flattering, though, when you just know they have warm, fuzzy feelings toward you and are really happy they met you.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jane2011

[Algermas]

Be that as it may, why would you even want to BE in a relationship that is all about 'power' and who holds it?

 

Because when you've successfully induced Stockholm syndrome you're treated like a king.

 

How many times have you seen women go back to the same guy over and over again because he was such a devoted, loving and gentle partner? The answer is never.

 

When you go out boozing with your buddies after she was just told her mother is terminally ill she'll be hooked for life, because most women are gluttons for punishment.

 

In before the 40+ brigade who will come in and claim that while these are the kinds of men they banged between 14 and 29 they've since grown as a person and now want decent men. While possibly true and good for you it's irrelevant to men who want women in their prime.

[carhill]

Not reading the rest of the thread, I'll focus on this:

 

"I can’t be honest with how I feel or else I will lose her."

 

 

You will risk losing her either way; honest or not.

 

IMO, be true to your style. With a compatible partner, it will be a style which wins for both of you. With the others, generally, you will notice boundary incursions worth paying attention to and acting upon. The key is clarity, both in defining and understanding your style and defining and understanding your boundaries.

 

As an example, if you perceive, as I have many times, that someone is letting you care about them versus caring (you can use love here if you want) proactively about you, and that impacts your boundaries of self-respect and equity, enforce those boundaries with consequences. Communicate then act in accordance with your communication. Accept the results.

[Thierro]

You will risk losing her either way; honest or not. IMO, be true to your style.

 

So what I have learned from my thread:

 

I need to take a step back, take a deep breath and let it flow more naturally. I can share what I feel and want with her, but it needs to come in gentle waves over time, not a single big tidal wave.

 

I know that she isn't going to stay with me for that long. 5 years tops, who knows.

 

But what do I do about the fact that she doesn't initiate contact? It's not like she isn't interested. Maybe she is too shy. Worst is that she lacks severe communication skills. When she's around me, she doesn't talk. I ask all the questions. I only get a 'yes' or 'no' back from her. If I'm lucky she'll share a whole sentence with me.

 

It scared the crap out of me when we first kissed. She devoured me. Pretty hot.. I don't get that though.

 

Do I just forget about that and contact her whenever I feel like?

 

Hmm

[carhill]

I know that she isn't going to stay with me for that long. 5 years tops, who knows.

With a woman, or any human for that matter, other than yourself, you never know what is in their mind unless and until they communicate through actions and/or words. Even then, it's always subject to change. This goes on until we die.

 

Her apparent inability to communicate clearly appears to impel you to fill in the blanks with presumptions and/or intuition based upon life experience.

 

Advice: Tell her what you want.

 

Example (not advice) :'I like you and think you're an interesting person and want to hear more about you. Sharing with me causes me to feel closer to you'

 

Focus on what you want rather than what you're not getting. Perhaps her love language is physical, like kissing. Unknown. If you find her communicating with you primarily non-verbally, through expression and/or touch, that's her style. Up to you whether and how you want to work with that.

 

If you find your styles to be too differing to reconcile, then move on. There can be mutual like, mutual attraction, mutual love and still irreconcilable incompatibility. That's OK. IMO, a healthy relationship shouldn't be inordinate and excruciatingly detailed effort. It should flow. Yeah, there are bumps, but they are minor and there's a palpable synergistic confidence in getting past them.

[Nicomis]

Females view male affection, love and devotion as weaknesses. The key is to display as little of them as possible for the best chances of long term success.

 

A woman will never give more of herself than with a man who they think could do without them.

 

I would agree with this in reference to being a "pick up artist", or very early in a relationship. However, if you want to be part of a healthy relationship, you need to be able to show her some affection, love, and devotion, or she will seek it from someone else. The key here is timing. If you are up her a$$ 24/7 early on you are gonna creep her out, but once a relationship is established it's OK to be affectionate, just don't act like a lil b@#$h all the time. Show love but still act like a man. If you don't feel like you can trust her to do that after a certain amount of time, she needs to go anyway. JS

[monkey00]

 

But what do I do about the fact that she doesn't initiate contact? It's not like she isn't interested. Maybe she is too shy. Worst is that she lacks severe communication skills. When she's around me, she doesn't talk. I ask all the questions. I only get a 'yes' or 'no' back from her. If I'm lucky she'll share a whole sentence with me.

 

Since you mentioned that she's 18, it might be the maturity/communication difference that comes with age. I wouldn't worry about it too much. However IME no matter how shy or socially awkward a person is, if they like someone they will initiate contact.

[Thierro]

With a woman, or any human for that matter, other than yourself, you never know what is in their mind unless and until they communicate through actions and/or words. Even then, it's always subject to change. This goes on until we die.

 

Her apparent inability to communicate clearly appears to impel you to fill in the blanks with presumptions and/or intuition based upon life experience.

 

Advice: Tell her what you want.

 

Example (not advice) :'I like you and think you're an interesting person and want to hear more about you. Sharing with me causes me to feel closer to you'

 

Focus on what you want rather than what you're not getting. Perhaps her love language is physical, like kissing. Unknown. If you find her communicating with you primarily non-verbally, through expression and/or touch, that's her style. Up to you whether and how you want to work with that.

 

If you find your styles to be too differing to reconcile, then move on. There can be mutual like, mutual attraction, mutual love and still irreconcilable incompatibility. That's OK. IMO, a healthy relationship shouldn't be inordinate and excruciatingly detailed effort. It should flow. Yeah, there are bumps, but they are minor and there's a palpable synergistic confidence in getting past them.

 

Thank you for that, it’s very insightful. I’m starting to understand what you mean with different styles. I was being shallow by not recognizing the fact that people express (communicate) themselves differently. I was too caught up in needing validation from her through words (IRL, e-mails, text messages), but that’s not her ‘style’. When we are together she shows her affection by touching.

 

“Focus on what you want rather than what you're not getting.” I will try to communicate this to her. You know how to express yourself in a wonderful way, carhill. The problem however, with focusing on what I want rather than what I’m not getting, is that there is a possibility that I’ll come across as someone who wants to change who she is. I need to be subtle about that.

 

I would like to add that I am not a push over. I have my boundaries and I state them very clearly. I always express myself in a calm matter. I’m not as naïve like I was in my past relationship. I did learn a lot from that situation. Having this with a new girl is something I need to get used to. It’s something entirely new. I do have my doubts, but I try to live them and sort them out. I’m not afraid to tell her that I think about her for longer periods of time. I told her that I haven’t had these feelings in my chest for a long time. There’s still a bit debris and insecurities because of my past and ex. I don’t want to let that interfere with this girl.

 

Thanks again.

 

However IME no matter how shy or socially awkward a person is, if they like someone they will initiate contact.

 

I agree with you on this. However, I try to see it the way carhill puts it. It's a matter of different styles. As I said, I will try to communicate what I want from now on.

 

Show love but still act like a man.

 

I do feel like a little happy girl at times

Edited July 4, 2012 by Thierro

[TaraMaiden]

Congratulations to everyone on this thread for ignoring the obvious war-mongering trolls.

Keep it up, guys!

[henderson14]

Nice guys finish last. Duh

[runner]

Congratulations to everyone on this thread for ignoring the obvious war-mongering trolls.

Keep it up, guys!

 

it's actually quite easy when they're already on my ignore list