The power of the relationship lies with whoever cares less

July 3, 2012

I cared too much for my ex in an unhealthy way. I put her on a pedestal, told her how much I loved her, needed her and wanted to be with her. I cared more about the relationship than she did.

Do I really need to be focusing on who cares the least in a relationship? Is that my best bet for keeping someone around? Do I need to shut up about how much I care and feel about a person?

I love to cuddle with a girl for hours. I want to keep touching her everywhere I go. I want to tell her how beautiful she is and how much I want her. I don't get why this is called 'being needy'. It's great to share these feelings with a girl. But yes, smothering her like this will push her away quicker than a taco bell fart right in the face.

I don't want this to be a power struggle, but it's probably best to lie about how I feel about a girl that I like? Pretending that I don't like her as much and only reward her with openness when she is the one opening up to me?

The girl I was dating is back. We are officially dating, but I have no clue on how to act around her. I can’t be honest with how I feel or else I will lose her.

Any tips?

July 3, 2012

You don't need to find someone who "cares less" than you do, you just need some perspective. How soon are you confessing your love and giving your all to these girls? Perhaps its too soon. Do you have balance in your life? Do you still spend time with your friends, esp early on, and keep a life that DOES NOT revolve around the R? Do you recognize the honeymoon stage isn't necessarily "real" and doesn't last? How long were you with this girl?

July 3, 2012

Woman want a confident man and they want to be treated like normal too sometimes. They also want to relax a little and not be smothered all the time.

Once you are the one that care less you're going to want the same.

With that said, don't stop showing her emotions... just tune the frequency down and treat her like a person.

its also human nature, and yes they will feel "not normal" and this will push them automatically.

Its like a magnet, its got the push and pull effect, its just the way it is.

my tip is to enjoy everything about her on the inside and confirm to yourself that you think she is super beautifull right now, or she's extra cute, or her hands are sooooo sexy, or she smells so nice... enjoy those moments and just give her a quick kiss... you will know why and she will like the kiss.

enjoy it as much as you want, just dont come across like the guy she's gong to lose interest in.

July 3, 2012

I understand what you mean about touching and cuddling to show affection. There's nothing wrong with that, but you should attempt to observe your emotions objectively, as they do have a habit of running away with you at times

I think that there are many who view relationships as some kind of power game, and likely they view other aspects of life in a similar way. A sort of dominate or be dominated. I don't think you're one of those people, but perhaps it's best if you choose your words carefully, as they can always be read differently. There are ways of showing affection without betraying your overwhelming feelings, but having said that, maybe taking a step back emotionally will help you gain some perspective.

Try not to focus on the "power" aspect of a relationship and just try to remain balanced as you progress. Then I'm sure you will find it easier to express your emotions in a way that is to be reciprocated

July 3, 2012

I think the devil is in the detail. I love men who don't feel they have to hold back their emotions and who don't play games in a relationship. I do, however, pick up on it if a man is using a relationship to compensate for lack of self esteem. It's the latter dimension that makes it into what people call needy. You can have the same action (expressing love, caressing) with two very different psychological dynamics behind it.

July 3, 2012

I don’t really have good friends at the moment. I lost them all during the relationship with my ex and the two years I needed to heal. I’m busy at work, but I try to talk to people in public and make a connection with them. That’s how I met this girl as well. So it’s a work in progress kind of thing.

I’m probably going way too fast talking about fantasies that I would like to do with her. I think a lot about stuff and sometimes I want to share this with someone. I’m not sure if that’s such a bad thing though.

I know this will not last. One of us will probably break-up eventually. I try to enjoy the honeymoon face and spread it out more evenly. All I do right now is being a self confident guy. I do tell her how she makes me feel, but I don’t smother her with it (even though I would like to). I play the waiting game. We are seeing each other once a week from now on (my decision). I send her an e-mail every two days. They are pretty long and I don’t get a lot back from her. This tells me to back down. But I am already doing that. She is very shy and her parents don’t give her a lot of freedom to do as she pleases. But when we are together she is very affectionate. I pretend that I don’t really need it that much, but from the inside I am dying for her touch.

The push and pull thing makes it so awkward. It doesn’t feel natural. But seeing my history here on LS, Denise knows what she’s talking about; “I do, however, pick up on it if a man is using a relationship to compensate for lack of self esteem.” I have serious self-esteem issues that I am getting sorted out professionally starting in a few weeks. I didn’t follow peoples advice to let the girl go, so now I am in the middle of it.

July 3, 2012

Females view male affection, love and devotion as weaknesses. The key is to display as little of them as possible for the best chances of long term success.

A woman will never give more of herself than with a man who they think could do without them.

July 3, 2012

Just keep a few things going on besides the girl.

Work, a few mates, family, go to a few games, weekends away, nights out with friends.

Just don't make it all about her. It's ok to have plans that don't involve a gf.

July 3, 2012

You need to make some friends and cultivate a life outside of this R. You are right, if this R is your whole life, you are screwed and it won't work out.

July 3, 2012

I get rewarded when I tell her how lovely she is. She validates my feelings and the relationship by saying or doing something in return. It's almost like an addiction; I need more and more positive feedback from her or else I will think something is wrong and the whole thing will turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

July 3, 2012

Females view male affection, love and devotion as weaknesses. The key is to display as little of them as possible for the best chances of long term success.

This is true but only to some extent. It is undoubtedly true that if you give a woman too much love and attention, she will see you as weak and get turned off. However, if you act like you don't give a crap about her all the time, eventually she will get message. Those who are truly skilled in the art of playing women know how to alternate good and bad treatment, for females need to experience the full range of human emotions (both positive and negative) to be content with their lives. If you read books about pimps and such, they all use the same techniques: they switch between being charming/sweet and emotional/physically abusive and women eat that sh*t up.

July 3, 2012

You need to make some friends and cultivate a life outside of this R. You are right, if this R is your whole life, you are screwed and it won't work out.

Making friends takes time and effort. This means I will have to lie about having friends. All I do is work. When I get home I read, play piano/guitar and work out.

July 3, 2012

So basically I'm screwed. The only way out is lying to this girl or break up and work on my issues..

July 3, 2012

This is true but only to some extent. It is undoubtedly true that if you give a woman too much love and attention, she will see you as weak and get turned off. However, if you act like you don't give a crap about her all the time, eventually she will get message. Those who are truly skilled in the art of playing women know how to alternate good and bad treatment, for females need to experience the full range of human emotions (both positive and negative) to be content with their lives. If you read books about pimps and such, they all use the same techniques: they switch between being charming/sweet and emotional/physically abusive and women eat that sh*t up.

If that's the case than I may as well just stay single. I don't want to consciously have to change my treatment to give her "range". I want to be myself. And another thing, this puts the woman having the upper hand anyway if you're doing this to "keep her". Are their relationships with balance? What have your women done to keep you other posters or has it all been about them?

Basically OP don't be all over her and act like she's the center of your universe and that your universe will collapse without her. That's a turnoff for sure. I know I'm not needy, I don't have to be with a woman 24/7 and have to know what she's doing all the time and I do have things I like to do with friends and by myself as well.

July 3, 2012

If I have to play these games I would rather stay single. This is why many men just say the hell with it and don't open up at all. Are women really like this?

July 3, 2012

If I have to play these games I would rather stay single. This is why many men just say the hell with it and don't open up at all. Are women really like this?

Ideally you want to be as abusive as you can legally be. Benign neglect if you will.

If you make her feel like **** she'll treat you like a god.

July 3, 2012

I prefer a self-aware, confident man who isn't afraid to express love and affection. That is a strength, not a weakness. When he is open, I naturally become more open in response. Only women with low self-esteem fall for the silly PUA tactics of "treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen."

July 4, 2012

I prefer a self-aware, confident man who isn't afraid to express love and affection. That is a strength, not a weakness. When he is open, I naturally become more open in response. Only women with low self-esteem fall for the silly PUA tactics of "treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen."

You neglect to mention the fact that most women, especially young and attractive ones, are cripplingly insecure.

July 4, 2012

I think the devil is in the detail. I love men who don't feel they have to hold back their emotions and who don't play games in a relationship. I do, however, pick up on it if a man is using a relationship to compensate for lack of self esteem. It's the latter dimension that makes it into what people call needy. You can have the same action (expressing love, caressing) with two very different psychological dynamics behind it.

This.

There is a HUGE difference between:

I like you and I like to spend time with you.

And

I need you and I need you to spend time with me.

You might feel it's the same, but to the person on the other side of it, there's a huge distinction.

It's nice to feel wanted/loved. It feels like a job to feel needed/responsible for someone else's happiness.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

July 4, 2012

"I play the waiting game. We are seeing each other once a week from now on (my decision). I send her an e-mail every two days. They are pretty long and I don’t get a lot back from her."

Well you already had the right conclusion: this relationship has an expiration date not far in the future.

July 4, 2012

I'll have to say there is some truth to the title of this post. From experience I can say that when initially dating/early stages of a relationship, it is best not to come off too strong/needy. Most of my successes have been where the women were more into me and did some of the initial pursuing. I think once you get into a R, it is okay to do nice things more often.

This is what I find works well for me:

a) See the person once a week (balance your time with hobbies/friends/family, have a life of your own)

b) Treat them like a person (not like an object of affection)

c) Be sincere, but not overly nice (you and your family is priority over her)

d) Just have fun and don't try too hard

e) Contact them as much as they contact you (stay in sync, but normally the one who has higher interest does more contacting)

f) Communicate to make date/plans, avoid talking too much in-between dates

g) Make your romantic intentions known but don't smother them (refers to B)

With the above, I don't play games or change who I am to attract them. It is just who I am and how I am naturally. Don't know why there are posters who keep talking about playing games or treating women like crap. Only women who have baggage or are damaged crave games/drama to stay interested.

But the fact about women is that they want to chase and win over someone they're very attracted to. Women pursue too. And women will value a guy a lot more if they felt they've jumped through some hoops to win him over. Not all women are passive weak creatures that want to be rescued or pursued by men they absolutely have no interest in. And I think with that some women don't perceive value in a guy who always chases her or tries too hard to woo her over.

July 4, 2012

I've always been an honest person. I don't believe in games or hiding things. They're dishonest to me.

With that said, I do believe that everybody subconsciously is always playing the game. My ex thought I was adorable whenever I was nervous, but during the BU, she was completely apathetic to that part about me. I guess that's a weak analogy, but...

I've always been true to my heart. The "I love you's" are always exchanged equally, but the differences were that in all of my relationships, I truly did care. They obviously stopped caring as much, or else they wouldn't be gone. They wouldn't have emotionally checked out of the relationship, cheated on me, entered G.I.G.S., whatever.

I've had my share of girls who were 13 to women at age 50. If anything, older women to me tend to be more jaded past a certain age and illogical with what they want, while the younger ones tend to want to have fun, not know what they want, and make some really stupid, hurtful mistakes.

With that said, the only girls clinging to me are the ones who know I don't give a rat's ass. I then start giving a rat's ass, then after a LTR, the power flips. I care; they stop caring and eventually leave.

Yes, relationships are a game, but so is life. So is war. There are winners and losers. Winners in relationships happen to both be winners. With that said, relationships are all about psychology, and let's face it...much of psychology is a power struggle.

This all comes from personal experience. I have never met a single person who didn't fall out of love with me after they knew that I actually loved them. The only exes that ever tried to come back to me were ones that I completely stopped caring about. The ones that I would be interested in reconciling with don't care about me romantically at all. Maybe I should listen to myself for this past BU LOL.

PUA tactics work on everybody. The reason being that nobody who is single is 100% secure, unless they enjoy being single. If they're single and are wanting a relationship, then they're wanting something that they don't have. Does that already sound familiar? What tends to happen post-BU/G.I.G.S. after a period of NC? Hell, why are people so complacent and neglectful, taking their SOs for granted during the relationship, then freak the hell out after BU? People psychologically want what they don't have.

Ever really wanted something, bought it, then all of a sudden, you don't really care about it as much anymore? That's the angle that almost all PUA/DJ strategies work.

Edited July 4, 2012 by ZhaoZilong5

July 4, 2012

To the OP, when I like a guy, I totally want him to be needy, clingy, and, furthermore, making all kinds of proclamations of adoration.

When I first met my long-term boyfriend (in late 2004), he wrote me long, long emails that just talked about things (interests, outlook on life, various viewpoints/opinions, etc.), but it almost always included some mushiness, too.

If the girl likes you, you can do no wrong, even if you're being totally vulnerable and loving.

If a guy acts that way with me and it "turns me off," I just don't like him much in the first place.

It's true that when a person you like becomes (or is) "out of your emotional reach" somehow, you burn with passion for him/her. But that does not mean you don't also burn with passion for people who are within your reach, if you like them. In the former case, you feel passion but insecurity. In the latter case, you feel passion and a sense of security (which obviously is better).

July 4, 2012

The biggest mistake I made in one relationship was I was, at the time, scared to be single. Disaster.

This is the key in my view, dont be scared to be single so then you can stay true to your relationship needs.

Be confident in who you are and what you want. Games are for the playground.

July 4, 2012

To the OP, when I like a guy, I totally want him to be needy, clingy, and, furthermore, making all kinds of proclamations of adoration.

When I first met my long-term boyfriend (in late 2004), he wrote me long, long emails that just talked about things (interests, outlook on life, various viewpoints/opinions, etc.), but it almost always included some mushiness, too.

If the girl likes you, you can do no wrong, even if you're being totally vulnerable and loving.

If a guy acts that way with me and it "turns me off," I just don't like him much in the first place.

It's true that when a person you like becomes (or is) "out of your emotional reach" somehow, you burn with passion for him/her. But that does not mean you don't also burn with passion for people who are within your reach, if you like them. In the former case, you feel passion but insecurity. In the latter case, you feel passion and a sense of security (which obviously is better).

I really really want this to be the general consensus. She likes me a lot. But the thing is, I always need to initiate contact. So if I follow Monkey’s advice on this, there will be no communication next to the real dates. She never texts me or sends me e-mails (even her responses to my long e-mails seem short). When I tell her how much I like her she will reciprocate. She tells me how much she wants to be alone with me. How much she wants this to turn out into a great relationship. She barely talks to me when we are together because she is so damn shy. But she has a great personality and having her around me feels wonderful. However, if I can’t have a good conversation with her, things will go south eventually. The more affectionate and needy I come across, so will she.

Like your boyfriend, Jane, I as well like sending her long e-mails talking about my outlook on life, various viewpoints/opinions and they always have some mushiness. In my last e-mail I talked about how nice it would be to take my car out and go wherever I want. I was being philosophical about it. I told her how much I would enjoy it to share that experience with her. I ended the e-mail talking about how the car breaks down in the pouring rain slowly starting out in a sexual fantasy.

I’m not going to treat her badly to keep her interested. I want to show my affection, but I don’t want to come across too needy. I know that I can live without her, I know that I don’t need her to feel happy. I learned this stuff after my first real relationship. But I do feel a bit overly enthusiastic about her. The hard part for me is figuring out if I’m still portraying healthy behavior or not.

This.

There is a HUGE difference between:

I like you and I like to spend time with you.

And

I need you and I need you to spend time with me.

You might feel it's the same, but to the person on the other side of it, there's a huge distinction.

It's nice to feel wanted/loved. It feels like a job to feel needed/responsible for someone else's happiness.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

I guess that I’m still too much the ‘I need you and I need you to spend time with me’-guy. But when two people meet, don’t we all want that? You think about each other constantly, you want him/her so badly. You feel like it’s better to be with him/her than be alone.

This is so hard. I can’t be myself, because that will push her away. But being insecure about what to do isn’t helping and she will notice that.

I wish I could be honest about this. That I like her, but that I am not sure if I am doing the right thing. I don't want to smother her, I just want to have fun with her. But I can't tell her this. The confident guy she sees in me will fanish and she will be less attracted to me.

I don't want this crap. I wish I could tell her how I feel about her...

Women are a lot like cats. If you treat a cat well and show it plenty of love over time, the cat is yours forever. But in the beginning if you try to crowd the cat and act needy showing it too much attention, it stays distant. You get better results with the cat being consistent but patient. Women are the same way. In the beginning you establish a common bond, you use patience and avoid being too clingy or needy so you don't scare her off, and over time as you get closer, the love between you grows and she feels comfortable opening herself up to you.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Thierro

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