Marriage: A Rigid Concept In a Dynamic World. Why not consider other options ?

July 2, 2012

EVERYBODY knows the rules of marriage:

- Get married

- Be "faithful"

- Be honest

- Be happy and grow old together

Fact: ~50% of ALL marriages fail completely, prior to one partner expiring

Fact: Just based on the very high frequency of posts, many existing marriages are suffering from issues of needs/wants unresolved, resulting in a lot of frustrated, hurt people who all feel like losers.

Here's an idea: Maybe its our maniacal devotion to a concept that MOST people fail at. Why not explore more open, dynamic relationships without all the shame, guilt, and judgement ?

Like many other men here, I'm married (10yr) with 2 kids, and have most everything running well in life, but with a void of intimacy for several years that hurts and I've got to a point where I have to be honest and start looking for options.

I don't want to leave my wife, but I've got to satisfy my needs for intimacy and I want to be honest with my wife. (yep, talked to my wife repeatedly, on subject. Bottom line, I have a problem and she's just fine with the way things are now.) So, I'm thinking to bring up idea of a uniquely open relationship that fits our needs/wants.

Has anyone else navigated this before me (hopefully successfully) ? Advise/tips greatly appreciated ! :-)

July 2, 2012

EVERYBODY knows the rules of marriage:
- Get married
- Be "faithful"
- Be honest
- Be happy and grow old together

Fact: ~50% of ALL marriages fail completely, prior to one partner expiring
Fact: Just based on the very high frequency of posts, many existing marriages are suffering from issues of needs/wants unresolved, resulting in a lot of frustrated, hurt people who all feel like losers.

Here's an idea: Maybe its our maniacal devotion to a concept that MOST people fail at. Why not explore more open, dynamic relationships without all the shame, guilt, and judgement ?

Like many other men here, I'm married (10yr) with 2 kids, and have most everything running well in life, but with a void of intimacy for several years that hurts and I've got to a point where I have to be honest and start looking for options.

I don't want to leave my wife, but I've got to satisfy my needs for intimacy and I want to be honest with my wife. (yep, talked to my wife repeatedly, on subject. Bottom line, I have a problem and she's just fine with the way things are now.) So, I'm thinking to bring up idea of a uniquely open relationship that fits our needs/wants.

Has anyone else navigated this before me (hopefully successfully) ? Advise/tips greatly appreciated ! :-)

First of all, divorce rate is not defined properly. It should be calculated as the probability of a marriage being unsuccessfull after a nr of yrs which means either D or very unhappy.

I suspect something around at 75% for marriages nowadays, probability of failure.

Define this lack of intimacy and what did she say when you brought it up ?

July 2, 2012

As long as both people in the marriage are okay with the "uniquely open marriage," sounds like a win / win.

Personally, I am interested in exploring how to get my needs and wants met within a monogamous relationship that i chose to forge. In some cases, even modify my needs and wants for the betterment of the union. It's something I want to do and consciously chose. I never felt constrained by my culture or society to be traditionally married - I want to.

July 2, 2012

I don't know what the solution is but it is clear marriage is just not working for most of society anymore.

July 2, 2012

First of all, divorce rate is not defined properly. It should be calculated as the probability of a marriage being unsuccessfull after a nr of yrs which means either D or very unhappy.
I suspect something around at 75% for marriages nowadays, probability of failure.

Define this lack of intimacy and what did she say when you brought it up ?

Good Point, Radu. You're right, I was probably over optimistic, so let's say that the perpetual (till death to us part) has a 75% failure rate. I wouldn't even buy a cheap watch with that failure rate.

"Define the lack of intimacy, and what did she say when you brought it up ?" Oh God, that's a too long answer for anyone to tolerate, but here's a few factoids:

- Have discussed the same subject, in different ways, for a good 5yr.

- At one point, had to explicitly explain to my wife why I didn't find it satisfying when she just lays there motionless, waiting for it to be over. She started faking it better, but what a sad situation. I've finally just told her I've no interest in "duty sex" at all. I really don't.

- After years of trying same subject from every angle I could conceive, my wife offered this solution: Maybe you should go to a therapist and explore why you can't be happy with the way things are.

Look...My wife's a really great woman, and a great mom, and great friend. I've been able to support her so she doesn't need to work, and kept her in a nice lifestyle. Basically, she's getting everything she wants (her words), and I'm left to the shame of a intimacy-free porn-enhanced masturbation, and etc. Probably pretty obviuos where I"m going with this. :-)

July 2, 2012

First of all, she has quite a lot of power over you, what worries me :

- she made it seem like it's your problem, and you gave up on it ... from the sound of it, it's almost as if she gives her body to you from time to time to do with as you please [the feeling i'm getting]; is she very religious ?; how were her parents to one another ?; any gay experiences ?; are you sure she loves you ?; was she always like this ... maybe she's asexual ?

- i don't know where you live but in most countries a wife who is a SAHM and has not worked in 10yrs is entitled to alimony besides child support and will most likely get primary custody; this is legal power she has over you and like it or not it may factor into her reluctance to change/investigate this problem

It might be weird for you, but for the ones reading this you might want to give examples about why her behaviour bugs you.

Details man, i suspect you came here as well to validate yourself that you are not weird/freak/need professional help.

July 2, 2012

Hey, maybe you're just not doing enough to turn her on? I mean, she's faking it. Well, the reason she HAS to fake it is that you're not getting the job done, bro. Mix it up in the bedroom, spend some time on foreplay and getting her motor running, and maybe, JUST MAYBE, she'll enjoy sex with you?

I'm sick of guys who expect us to just swoon because you stuck your pee pee in us. That only works in porn. Put some effort into your loving making!

July 2, 2012

Hey, maybe you're just not doing enough to turn her on? I mean, she's faking it. Well, the reason she HAS to fake it is that you're not getting the job done, bro. Mix it up in the bedroom, spend some time on foreplay and getting her motor running, and maybe, JUST MAYBE, she'll enjoy sex with you?

I'm sick of guys who expect us to just swoon because you stuck your pee pee in us. That only works in porn. Put some effort into your loving making!

Did you bother to read his posts first before repyling?

Here.....

- Have discussed the same subject, in different ways, for a good 5yr.

OP, not sure what to say to you but she sounds very selfish, she's getting her needs met and doesn't seem to have much regard for yours. Maybe you both need MC.

July 2, 2012

Hilarious user name for a thread like this one! There are probably 147038 exactly like this one here on LoveShack. Why don't you look for them and PM the authors?

There are SO many husbands out there who are perfect, like you, but their mean and frigid old wives just can't see it. And a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, right?

July 2, 2012

Did you bother to read his posts first before repyling?

Here.....

OP, not sure what to say to you but she sounds very selfish, she's getting her needs met and doesn't seem to have much regard for yours. Maybe you both need MC.

Yes, I did. So they discussed it. Nothing sexier than having some guy whine about you not being turned on for 5 years, rather than going to the effort to physically turn you on.

July 2, 2012

Yes, I did. So they discussed it. Nothing sexier than having some guy whine about you not being turned on for 5 years, rather than going to the effort to physically turn you on.

So now discussing something is whining? Well that's interesting considering how much many of the posters on here constantly mention 'communication'. Or is it only 'communication' when women are talking about their needs?

July 2, 2012

It's threads like this that really show the hidden misandry.

I thought women wanted men to communicate more in marriage but I guess not. Is it any wonder some men just stop trying? Would the women here have the same responses if the genders were reversed?

July 2, 2012

So now discussing something is whining? Well that's interesting considering how much many of the posters on here constantly mention 'communication'. Or is it only 'communication' when women are talking about their needs?

Listen, if my man suddenly, out of nowhere, lost interest in sex with me, I wouldn't assume automatically it's HIS FAULT as per most men here. I would think that maybe I needed to take off a few pounds, dress a little sexier, maybe try some new stuff in the bedroom, maybe even read some articles about exciting things I could do to stimulate him.

Seems like rather than do something similar, most men would rather just assume that their woman doesn't like sex. They never once consider that maybe she no longer likes sex WITH HIM. Maybe he's bad at it?

I was in a similar situation with my ex. He could have written the OP. He whined and complained about not getting it enough. But when I actually did it, do you want to know how it went?

First, he'd ask for sex in the same tone of voice he would use to ask me if I wanted to order a pizza. Mmmm, baby. Way to get my motor running.

Then, he'd undress and wait while I undressed. Doesn't get more formal than that!

Then he'd lube up his dick (Needed because I wasn't turned on enough to lubricate myself) and shoved it in.

I'd fake moan a little to get him to climax quicker because it was SO DARN TERRIBLE I JUST WANTED IT OVER WITH.

He'd pump for 5 minutes, finish, and be off with a, 'thanks babe!'

I know what you're thinking. It's soooooo shocking I didn't want more of THAT!

My boyfriend, on the other hand, cuddles with me. Kisses me. Whispers sexy things in my ear. Caresses me. Undresses me. Licks and kisses and bites me all over. All before he even pulls out his dick.

THAT MAN gets laid AT LEAST every day.

July 2, 2012

It's threads like this that really show the hidden misandry.

I thought women wanted men to communicate more in marriage but I guess not. Is it any wonder some men just stop trying? Would the women here have the same responses if the genders were reversed?

REALLY? You seem to be on one of your benders again.

This OP has said NOTHING about how he may have contributed to the current situation with his wife. He's not getting what he wants, and so he wants to get it elsewhere.

Do you feel confident that his wife feels she is getting HER needs met in this marriage, just because he has been "discussing" his sexual dissatisfaction with her for 5 years?

I don't. We don't know, though. We are just getting his side of it.

Taking exception to that is "hidden misandry"?

July 2, 2012

Listen, if my man suddenly, out of nowhere, lost interest in sex with me, I wouldn't assume automatically it's HIS FAULT as per most men here. I would think that maybe I needed to take off a few pounds, dress a little sexier, maybe try some new stuff in the bedroom, maybe even read some articles about exciting things I could do to stimulate him.

Seems like rather than do something similar, most men would rather just assume that their woman doesn't like sex. They never once consider that maybe she no longer likes sex WITH HIM. Maybe he's bad at it?

I was in a similar situation with my ex. He could have written the OP. He whined and complained about not getting it enough. But when I actually did it, do you want to know how it went?

First, he'd ask for sex in the same tone of voice he would use to ask me if I wanted to order a pizza. Mmmm, baby. Way to get my motor running.

Then, he'd undress and wait while I undressed. Doesn't get more formal than that!

Then he'd lube up his dick (Needed because I wasn't turned on enough to lubricate myself) and shoved it in.

I'd fake moan a little to get him to climax quicker because it was SO DARN TERRIBLE I JUST WANTED IT OVER WITH.

He'd pump for 5 minutes, finish, and be off with a, 'thanks babe!'

I know what you're thinking. It's soooooo shocking I didn't want more of THAT!

My boyfriend, on the other hand, cuddles with me. Kisses me. Whispers sexy things in my ear. Caresses me. Undresses me. Licks and kisses and bites me all over. All before he even pulls out his dick.

THAT MAN gets laid AT LEAST every day.

This thread is not about you, the OP came here looking for advice to try and deal with this situation not to hear your shaming language and projection.

Furthermore he's already said, and it's already been repeated, that he's tried to discuss this with her for 5 years. Isn't that enough time for his wife to tell him what's wrong with their sex life? How long is it supposed to take to get some resolution?

July 2, 2012

How do you know he hasn't tried everything under the sun? If a man has exhausted all options and nothing changes what is he supposed to do.

Also stop calling this one of my benders. Judging by some responses it lets me know how right I am most of the time. No way would the responses be the same if the genders were reversed.

July 2, 2012

- At one point, had to explicitly explain to my wife why I didn't find it satisfying when she just lays there motionless, waiting for it to be over. She started faking it better, but what a sad situation. I've finally just told her I've no interest in "duty sex" at all. I really don't.

Did everyone miss when the OP said this?

The fact is, she's FAKING IT. That means SHE'S NOT ORGASMING. Do YOU like to have sex without a climax? No, it's not all that fun. If she's not orgasming, that isn't HER fault automatically. And sitting there whining about how it's not fun FOR HIM if she just 'lays there and fakes it' isn't going to get her wet, dudes. And THAT'S what the OP needs to do. Spend some time making sure he's turning HER ON.

July 2, 2012

How do you know he hasn't tried everything under the sun? If a man has exhausted all options and nothing changes what is he supposed to do.

Also stop calling this one of my benders. Judging by some responses it lets me know how right I am most of the time. No way would the responses be the same if the genders were reversed.

I don't know that he hasn't exhausted all his options. He said absolutely zero about trying ANYTHING; just that he's been "discussing" for 5 years.

Maybe he's been working positively on their problem, including exploring the part he plays in it (because it's very rare for a marital issue to be completely one sided) and maybe it's been he who's used "shaming language," guilt tripping or nagging and made her feel not good enough.

I have NO idea.

But, the OP is clearly questioning the validity of traditional marriage in general, not just his - and is not proposing to explore any ideas on how to improve the marriage he's in. He wants an open marriage, and that is the only thing he's proposed.

Which is fine with me. But it needs to be fine with his wife. And, of course, he needs to also be fine with her getting her sexual world reignited elsewhere.

I'm not finding any "hidden misandry" here at all.

July 2, 2012

some wives say no i quote "i'm finished with all that" the that is sex and "well there's more to marriage than that" men have needs, more fool women who won't open their legs, sorry, and i know some men should shave lay off booze and get their moobs fixed and be affectionate and honest, but once a man has tried to be attractive and his wife still says no, then he is entitled to leave/stray, which might well have women here telling me off, but be careful, you are asking the imposible of alot of men if you expect them to like celibacy

July 2, 2012

Ask your wife nicely if she will attend a meet and greet at your local swingers club. She won't have to do anything, or see anything, just go. Maybe she will find it harmless and change her mind.

On another note, you're revelations regarding open marriage have been around since gaining popularity in the 60s. it's been 50 years. The rate of D for open marriages is just slightly below traditional.

July 2, 2012

I don't know what the solution is but it is clear marriage is just not working for most of society anymore.

worked for my parents for nearly 50 years.

actually i am the only person in my family who is divorced. all my sisters are still married to the same person.

i didn't leave over frivolous things. i left because of abuse and alcoholism.

July 2, 2012

And, of course, he needs to also be fine with her getting her sexual world reignited elsewhere.

Exactly. My guess is he might just be shocked at how 'warm' she gets with another partner. Guys always bring their A game to the bedroom the first few romps in the hay.

July 3, 2012

worked for my parents for nearly 50 years.

actually i am the only person in my family who is divorced. all my sisters are still married to the same person.

i didn't leave over frivolous things. i left because of abuse and alcoholism.

Your parents are of another generation and I bet your sisters marriages are not what they seem on the outside. There are some exceptions but it is a dying institution for the most part. If any product had the same track record marriage has no sane person would buy it.

July 3, 2012

Your parents are of another generation and I bet your sisters marriages are not what they seem on the outside. There are some exceptions but it is a dying institution for the most part. If any product had the same track record marriage has no sane person would buy it.

I am not sure what difference the generation makes?

I like being married.

I think the reason so many marriages fail is because people marry people they don't really know. He/she is hot and the sex is great so let's get married after a week of knowing each other is doomed in most cases.

July 3, 2012

I am not sure what difference the generation makes?

I like being married.

I think the reason so many marriages fail is because people marry people they don't really know. He/she is hot and the sex is great so let's get married after a week of knowing each other is doomed in most cases.

It makes a huge difference. Look at the divorce rates back in the day compared to now.

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