Ninjainpajamas Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 He realizes now that he looked to anything small...anything at all to complain about so that he would feel moral in cheating. Is if cheating can be claimed as moral.. Well you did kiss another woman without his permission, not that it is comparable or that what he did is a justification of any kind. But that's how it can "morally" feel, except he felt the temptation...and went for it. I understand why people think cheating is so horrible, but obviously he had some personal issues/needs that weren't being met and he went outside the relationship to fill them. At this point you should let the relationship go and I have no idea what the hell you think you are doing by keeping him around. You're obviously looking for a relationship with transparency, which is why you were so honest with him in the past about possibly pursuing that romantic sexual relationship...but like many women, you think your behavior and feelings reflects the feelings of your husband...HUGE mistake I see women do time and time and again so I'm glad you came here to actually provide an update on what happened. Men and any other person, has only themselves to speak for about about. You cannot know what someone else is thinking, what their agenda is and what they intend to do or are capable of doing...that's just what comes with being with another person, you have to just trust him. A lot of women go out of there way trying to build that trust and communication on their own, trying to set the tone and boundaries/rules for a faithful and committed relationship, but no matter what YOU do, you do not change someone else. You cannot thereby make a man more committed and faithful by your behavior...if he/she is going to cheat, they're going to cheat...whether it be the best case scenario or worst depends on the person. Some people cheat with a mind to cheat, other people cheat on accident...but this guy clearly has an agenda to seek something outside of this relationship. If you let him back into your life, then you're just foolish. Yes, everybody makes mistakes and I don't personally believe cheating is the end of the world and this big dramatic thing, but the fact is he lied to you and continued to likely paint a picture of fidelity and still trying to sell you a story or image of him that you can believe in...that's not a guy who's responsible and accountable for what he's done. You should definitely move on, he was clearly trying to sabotage the relationship in the past and intentionally create problems and a rift between you, therefore he could justify his behavior and cheating. I am not one of those murderous like individuals over things that I think are bad and immoral, I don't give a damn about that retarded idealistic and fantasy world people want to live in...but I'll tell it like it is and this guy is a danger, and he is not ready...do not let his sadness, depression and whatever else be an influence on you. Don't take him back, tell him to get in therapy and work on himself if he ever wants to try and earn back your respect. This marriage is over, it sounds like he just completely manipulated your trust...and he will and is doing it again. Don't be a fool again, none of the reasons in your head are good enough. And next time, don't be another woman calling your husband wonderful and praising him, half of the guys that women are saying this about are probably doing something on the side. If you say it, at least know that it doesn't make him a faithful husband. It's just your perception and based off what you know...we can all be manipulated, deceived and cheated on, that's just life.
Author malzy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Posted May 9, 2015 I think it would help a bit of back story. Husband was 17, i was 16. We started dating. (Good friends) and got along fantastic. AT 17 i had open heart surgery and he was by my side.... Faithful. At 21 we bought a house. (A house we still live in.) Our oldest son was born 22 years old. happy, together and him not cheating. Second and more challenging child was born. 24-25 years old. things got mentally tricky and a little more troublesome. (This was around the time I WAS KISSED BY MY FRIEND. not the other way around and i neither reciprocated or pushed her away. I was stunned.... But course i was honest! Chose not to go that route and told my husband strait up that it would be a can of worms. And i loved my life. His work got busy, his sep father got thrown in prison. His mom was now asking for money as her life was crumbling. For some reason exactly the month and week that my last child was concieved he met kate... He says he loved her after three weeks chatting and pictures exchanged. i was 26 years old at the time, and Kate opened him up to MORE cheating behavior. (What i wrote above was HIS explanation as to why he justified cheating.) If i were the one to think about his excuses i would guess me putting on a little weight. Three kids etc.... He had no real excuse. I am the white unicorn. I liked sex. DAILY often multiple times, with him and ONLY him. Not an exaggeration and that was 11 years of daily sex besides the week every month that i don't want to. He wanted intmacy and love with another. He tries to claim it was just sex but the i love you and the fact that i ****ed him literally EVERY damn day should be a indication that his ****ing around on me was not just about sex. I felt i was living the fairy tale happy forever with only him.... Nope. Anyway. as to taking him back? Eh. as to continuing our marriage? that is DEAD. the marriage i had is over and gone. IF AND I MEAN IF IF IF IF i stay and let him sort his problems it will be an entirely different marriage. But look at this. Three kids all under 6. I have a heart condition. I have a house that we both own. We have a lot between us and that alone warrants a clear head and a positive and sure mind before i up and end this marital contract and dissolve our marriage. So its not about being stupid for staying with him.... Its about being sensible of my health. my future financial wellbeing. and my children. To leave him means being ready to do so. And after only just finding out, and him going abroad for work....dI have not been able to clear my mind. He did submit himself to a polygraph.... He passed meaning they could not see that he was lying. So i feel like he is not hiding anymore. But he is still an ass and i am not sure i want to be with him anymore. He is not who i THOUGHT i married. 1
Ninjainpajamas Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Malzy, welcome to the real world with real relationship problems. There's no "Happily ever after", anyone who tells you that their life is that way is a damn liar. You got together like many young couples did. You thought you were in love, you thought you had everything you needed...until real life happens. You were young teenagers when you met, you had a serious life experience together that likely bonded you together quite significantly and probably had a lot to do with the decisions and possibly speed in which things were done following near after. But think about how stupid you were at that age and how much you knew, about just about anything, you knew nothing, zero compared to what you know now and you still don't have everything figured out by any means. And yet you bought a house by 21, and had your first child at 22, your third at 25-26...and yet you're still not full grown wise adults...you're living life way ahead of your own wisdom and experience at that age, you're not nonfunctional or retarded, but you're barely really starting to figure yourselves out as people, as individuals. What makes women think that a 17 year old is going to be committed and married his entire life? who can make a decision like that. You think life is just going to smoothly go by wonderfully, ever passing year? hardly the case. Obviously you know that now, there are certain events and challenges...and he's a man, I'm sorry that this feels like an excuse, but no man is ready to commit to one woman in his early 20's, let alone his late teens....you're just asking for heartbreak if you ask me, men are simply not mature and aware enough at that age. With whatever happened with him and the family, the pressure of his life, the pressure of his marriage with children, it was probably an escape to go and be with these other women and it really wasn't this complex betrayal and even about you...he told them he loved them but chances are he didn't or doesn't mean it, he was probably just saying that out of a moment kind of thing because he was infatuated with them and the idea of them...but he has no experience, he's been with you with children for the majority of his adult life, what does he know about other women and feelings with other women. And yes, I'm sure he loves you...it's just not enough to satiate a young man. The sex, sorry...the sex with the same woman since he was a kid basically, is not compelling enough to keep a man faithful in a committed relationship, even just over the fact he doesn't know any different. He doesn't know what a new vagina feels like, well he knows now...he didn't know what it was like to have feelings for other women and go through that whirlwind romance where you lose yourself, well he knows now...and that's what it was, and then it's just like a tornado and it ends and here you come with your fat book of morals and expectations, ready to slam him down with every law in the book. But it has nothing to do with that...you have your way of seeing things, and he has his way. And since right now, you have the moral high ground, you can threaten him with the kids, abandoning his family and all that other crap that has nothing to do with but it's just to make him feel bad, is just your point of view...he has his, and his alone, and I'm certain that his view and feelings you'd never truly validate because it doesn't please you and still against your rules and is a "betrayal"...so it becomes all about that and your feelings, and you feel you have the right and power to push that. But it's not going to make any difference, you're not going to get him to repair what he did, he can't take it back. But you'll continue to resent him and try to punish him and make him go through hell for what he did, like it was just this great betrayal towards you and that's all it has to do with but you're like of course the only things that's supposed to matter in his eyes...but you're not, he's got to grow up and learn too, he's got to learn to deal with life and it's challenges and I'm sure thanks to you he'll learn the consequences of those decisions very easily. The reason I think you'll be stupid for taking him back is; - You'll just resent and punish the hell out of him for what he did, reminding him like a broken record in so many ways - You'll never forget it or get over it, you'll call him every name in the book, threaten and likely abuse him because you feel justified in doing so due to his behavior - You'll make the family life and living situation worse, with your pestering and unhappiness over what happened - You'll do all these dumb things to make him prove it to you and earn it to you, which is more about your unforgiving emotions and resentment for what he did than it ever is about proving himself faithful, which is a fools bet where he's destined to lose and fail no matter what he does - You'll likely therefore use this as ammunition and revel over the details and scenarios, and ask him all kinds of irrelevant and emotional questions just to get yourself fired up again So you want to live like that? you want to sit around and punish him for the next 5, 10, rest of your life? you think that's some kind of healthy environment to be in? are you even thinking about the cost in others ways...the waste of your life, the way it'll just keep you locked into this phase that will overshadow everything that will come in the future. Is that how you want to be and live? Split the house, take care of the kids like sane and normal individuals without going through all these dramatics and wrestling with each other and you trying to repair a past that never can...because in the end it's just a waste of time. What he did and why he did it you'll never understand. You'll never have all the answers that are satisfying to you because you'll never be able to understand why even then with whatever he tells you..so round and round you'll go with no end in sight. It's just a stupid way to live, but he'll know why he did, and he'll know what he got out of it and it's just something you'll never accept of him. Women always THINK they know the man they married because they always rather believe in fantasies and unrealistic men. You don't really listen and pay attention, you don't really think it through and really analyze the guy or the situation, even if you could and had all the answers already. You follow your feelings/positive thinking and you go out with what you think a guy is about and who he is, that's how women work. You set yourself up to fail because you think what you feel and think you know is good enough to make life work like your make-believe world and you're finding out like many other women the truth the hard way. But if you're like most women...you won't accept it anyway, you'll just keep trying to do it your way. There's nothing to do but leave, unless you want drama...and no it's not for him to fix and repair, that's your drama and justification you're going to do what you're going to do. Unless you could say "Let's just move on, we'll forget about it and move on with our lives and I forgive you for it and just want to make our lives happy from here on out"...don't do it, don't waste your time, because it's a so painful inevitable death that is just a matter of time until you split up or become so numb you don't even care anymore.
Author malzy Posted May 9, 2015 Author Posted May 9, 2015 Malzy, welcome to the real world with real relationship problems. There's no "Happily ever after", anyone who tells you that their life is that way is a damn liar. You got together like many young couples did. You thought you were in love, you thought you had everything you needed...until real life happens. You were young teenagers when you met, you had a serious life experience together that likely bonded you together quite significantly and probably had a lot to do with the decisions and possibly speed in which things were done following near after. But think about how stupid you were at that age and how much you knew, about just about anything, you knew nothing, zero compared to what you know now and you still don't have everything figured out by any means. And yet you bought a house by 21, and had your first child at 22, your third at 25-26...and yet you're still not full grown wise adults...you're living life way ahead of your own wisdom and experience at that age, you're not nonfunctional or retarded, but you're barely really starting to figure yourselves out as people, as individuals. What makes women think that a 17 year old is going to be committed and married his entire life? who can make a decision like that. You think life is just going to smoothly go by wonderfully, ever passing year? hardly the case. Obviously you know that now, there are certain events and challenges...and he's a man, I'm sorry that this feels like an excuse, but no man is ready to commit to one woman in his early 20's, let alone his late teens....you're just asking for heartbreak if you ask me, men are simply not mature and aware enough at that age. With whatever happened with him and the family, the pressure of his life, the pressure of his marriage with children, it was probably an escape to go and be with these other women and it really wasn't this complex betrayal and even about you...he told them he loved them but chances are he didn't or doesn't mean it, he was probably just saying that out of a moment kind of thing because he was infatuated with them and the idea of them...but he has no experience, he's been with you with children for the majority of his adult life, what does he know about other women and feelings with other women. And yes, I'm sure he loves you...it's just not enough to satiate a young man. The sex, sorry...the sex with the same woman since he was a kid basically, is not compelling enough to keep a man faithful in a committed relationship, even just over the fact he doesn't know any different. He doesn't know what a new vagina feels like, well he knows now...he didn't know what it was like to have feelings for other women and go through that whirlwind romance where you lose yourself, well he knows now...and that's what it was, and then it's just like a tornado and it ends and here you come with your fat book of morals and expectations, ready to slam him down with every law in the book. But it has nothing to do with that...you have your way of seeing things, and he has his way. And since right now, you have the moral high ground, you can threaten him with the kids, abandoning his family and all that other crap that has nothing to do with but it's just to make him feel bad, is just your point of view...he has his, and his alone, and I'm certain that his view and feelings you'd never truly validate because it doesn't please you and still against your rules and is a "betrayal"...so it becomes all about that and your feelings, and you feel you have the right and power to push that. But it's not going to make any difference, you're not going to get him to repair what he did, he can't take it back. But you'll continue to resent him and try to punish him and make him go through hell for what he did, like it was just this great betrayal towards you and that's all it has to do with but you're like of course the only things that's supposed to matter in his eyes...but you're not, he's got to grow up and learn too, he's got to learn to deal with life and it's challenges and I'm sure thanks to you he'll learn the consequences of those decisions very easily. The reason I think you'll be stupid for taking him back is; - You'll just resent and punish the hell out of him for what he did, reminding him like a broken record in so many ways - You'll never forget it or get over it, you'll call him every name in the book, threaten and likely abuse him because you feel justified in doing so due to his behavior - You'll make the family life and living situation worse, with your pestering and unhappiness over what happened - You'll do all these dumb things to make him prove it to you and earn it to you, which is more about your unforgiving emotions and resentment for what he did than it ever is about proving himself faithful, which is a fools bet where he's destined to lose and fail no matter what he does - You'll likely therefore use this as ammunition and revel over the details and scenarios, and ask him all kinds of irrelevant and emotional questions just to get yourself fired up again So you want to live like that? you want to sit around and punish him for the next 5, 10, rest of your life? you think that's some kind of healthy environment to be in? are you even thinking about the cost in others ways...the waste of your life, the way it'll just keep you locked into this phase that will overshadow everything that will come in the future. Is that how you want to be and live? Split the house, take care of the kids like sane and normal individuals without going through all these dramatics and wrestling with each other and you trying to repair a past that never can...because in the end it's just a waste of time. What he did and why he did it you'll never understand. You'll never have all the answers that are satisfying to you because you'll never be able to understand why even then with whatever he tells you..so round and round you'll go with no end in sight. It's just a stupid way to live, but he'll know why he did, and he'll know what he got out of it and it's just something you'll never accept of him. Women always THINK they know the man they married because they always rather believe in fantasies and unrealistic men. You don't really listen and pay attention, you don't really think it through and really analyze the guy or the situation, even if you could and had all the answers already. You follow your feelings/positive thinking and you go out with what you think a guy is about and who he is, that's how women work. You set yourself up to fail because you think what you feel and think you know is good enough to make life work like your make-believe world and you're finding out like many other women the truth the hard way. But if you're like most women...you won't accept it anyway, you'll just keep trying to do it your way. There's nothing to do but leave, unless you want drama...and no it's not for him to fix and repair, that's your drama and justification you're going to do what you're going to do. Unless you could say "Let's just move on, we'll forget about it and move on with our lives and I forgive you for it and just want to make our lives happy from here on out"...don't do it, don't waste your time, because it's a so painful inevitable death that is just a matter of time until you split up or become so numb you don't even care anymore. I think you have a lot of wise advice, and suggestions, but to a degree i think you are projecting your own situation or situations you have close by. Not to poo poo your experiences. Experiences educate us and i understand what you are saying, but i have NO (ZERO) intention of making him suffer through life with me. I have contacted a lawyer, that really made him worried.... He does not want me to leave him and he CLAIMS i am the only person he loves... Just that he got confused about what really mattered to him, blah blah blah i am sure you have heard that song and dance before. I still love him. our life, our kids our house.... I loved who i WAS with him. Now i don't even know. Currently its not about him being made to feel like ****. I can see he is tearing into himself often about what he did while i was pregnant. He says we had a good marriage...better than any he knew of, but curiosity got the better of him. When we married i was concerned and DRUG MY FEET big time to the alter because i was worried about him committing to me. I even broke up with him two times stating he NEEDED TO SOW HIS WILD OATS. but he convinced me time and time again that he was above sexual and base needs.... i was hesitant but i confess that i wanted to believe him. He cried like a blubbering fool when we shared our vows. I remember his vows, (we wrote our own) he felt honored to share a life with me... Where was that same honor when he loved kate? Anyway. I am in IC I have talked to a lawyer in february. He is a good guy. The cheating husband has passed a polygraph and now he just hopes i don't decide to leave for good. More than likely i will divorce him... But this is a tough time and i have my health to consider. I don't want this **** to kill me. If you think i WANT to make my husbands life miserable you are wrong. Me dying over a heart attack over the stress of this **** will eat away at him worse than anything i could say or do. I don't want my kids to lose a mother, or him to live thinking that he killed me. I know sounds dramatic, but i am not being that way. I am completely serious. My blood pressure has been through the roof when i was following the divorce path. I have since cooled and want to focus on staying alive. Don't you think that is priority number one? 2
understand50 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Malzy, OK, I do not know if you will get a divorce later, or how this will work out with you. From what I have read, you are on the fence, but have many reasons to stay in the marriage. From my point of view they are solid and good reasons. In my opinion, it is harder to reconcile and stay together, then just divorcing. In the end, if the WS changes and is remorseful, reconciling can lead to better things. Many will disagree, and that is fine. Look at both sides of the question and follow your best interest. All I can share is how my wife and I stayed together after her committing financial infidelity to the tune of $170k. We also got married young. She is my first and only lover, I have been with. She had a NOS, when we first become lovers, and we have been together for 40 plus years. The following is what we did to reconcile. If you can take something from our story, good. Background. My wife and I met in HS, she is 2 year older then me. We met when I was 15, we started dating when I was 16, we became lovers when I was 17. She graduated and took a summer job in a town 3 hours away. I would visit each weekend and we would stay together. During that July, I could not make our weekend as I was working. Sunday she called me and said that she had something bad to tell me and she needed me to come on Friday. That Friday she met me at he buss station and told me about her “ONS” She did not give me much information past that. Long story short, we talked, went back to her room and talked some more, and made love. By Sunday, I had forgiven her. I can say that I am sure that she has faithful to me from that time forward. 2 months later, I got my GDE, and moved in with her. We have been together ever since, marrying 2 years after that. 5 kids, collage, careers, and 2 grandchildren later, the second shock happened to us. My wife after getting out of collage, was an on and off stay at home mom. Later, we decided to have her stay at home to keep the “teenagers in line” In 2008, the company I had worked for 15 years was sold and I was layed off. I also found that my wife had been running up credit cards ($60K), spending a 2nd mortgage line of credit, $80K, and taking out loans on our 401K, $30K. Total $170K. I spent some time (3 months) deciding if I wanted to stay in the marriage. 3 things decided it for me. I still loved her, if we divorced we both would be poorer then if we stayed together, and lastly, I wanted to keep our family together. Due to the economy, all the kids had come back home. First, I let my wife know I wanted to try and make the marriage work, but that I did not want the marriage we had. I asked her to take some time and think about it and come back to me. I made her take a week, she wanted to stay together as well. One of the early things is that we started Date night. Once a week we get out of the house and do something as a couple. Depending on money situation, it could be a walk, picnic, movie, dinner, or just a long drive. The rule is we are out to have fun and we do not talk about or bring anything “heavy” up. This is for us to enjoy each others company. This has worked very well, and we both consider it the highlight of our week. We try and out do each other on things to do, that fit our budget. This allowed us to be a couple and not fight about our problems all the time. Our communication was bad. We just did not talk about anything that would upset the other. “rug sweeping” We started setting aside a time each week, where we had privacy and talk. I insisted on honesty and no secrets between us. We later went to talking each month. The rule for these talks, are that we are to be honest with each other, and each can ask any question they need to. To make sure each is safe to talk about ANYTHING, we keep things that come up in our talks, only in our talks and do not use them against each other. If a topic needs more time, we both wait until the next talk, or ask for another one sooner. This allowed us to work through things and get us to think things out before moving on. We had long talks on why she spent the money, did she really want to stay together, and many other questions. Her and I, had to be truthful on everything. On another post, I talked about how and why I asked about her sexual past in HS. We also revisited her ONS, as one of the things I insisted on was total honesty and I had come across more information on what had happened. My main goal was truth between us, and also what the real truth was. I bring this up as if you are going to work on commutation and truth, you need to be prepared for anything to come out, and work trough it. If you ask hard questions you may, and will, get hard answers. So after 7 years, we are both happier, but still poor. I think we will remain together, but we work to remain a couple. I am still very angry over the money, but have learned not to be angry all the time. She has shown remorse, and made a large effort to change. I have learned to be a better husband, and pay attention to her. We are still working on why she lied to me and spent all that money behind my back. We may never really know, I wonder sometimes if she does. As we did not have health insurance and little money, we did not go to MC or IC for ether of us. Our MC was talking things out and we worked not to get mad when things came out. The fact that we have been together so long, and “grew” up with each other helped. The goal is to work things out and to understand each other, but not just buy everything they say. Not believing, is OK. We ask for more information, file it away for another time. As for trust, I am reasonably sure she has been faithful, but if some information came forward I would check it out. On money matters, she can not have secret spending of any kind. I apply the rule to myself as well. So.... Date night, or some reoccurring activity where you both can reconnect. 1) Rule is to have fun with each other and put aside any fights or issues. A meeting once a week or month, where you can talk things outs and both feel safe. Make some rules and call out each others if they are broken. 1) what is spoken stays in the talks. 2) Thing that come out can not be used in fights and such 3) have the talks, even if you talk about the weather, do not let them slip. Fight fair. Do not bring up things that are not part of the issue you are mad about. Example. “I am mad that you are late, can you not be on time?” I would not bring up she spent us into the poor house. (I know simplistic) On your anger, You can forgive, but you will not and cannot forget. That is OK. I have just learned to not be angry all the time and to use it to remind me not to let it happen again. Your husband will know that he hurt you, and that you will always have some anger towards him. His job is not to add to it. I stated in another post that my wife and I, "were fugitives from the law of averages" I hope you can join us in this club. 1135
Mr. Lucky Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 He says we had a good marriage...better than any he knew of, but curiosity got the better of him. See these kinds of statements often in this forum. And having my WS say this would scare the sh*t out of me for this reason - if a "good" marriage doesn't motivate your spouse to be faithful, what does? If "better than any he knew of" can't meet his needs, what would? How do you ever feel secure and get peace of mind in that relationship? I'd tell him to go fix himself on his own time... Mr. Lucky 2
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