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What shape/form will Christ's 2nd coming take? (Christians Only )

M30USA

By M30USA
in Spirituality & Religious Beliefs

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Feelin Frisky Established Member

Feelin Frisky

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Who's to say who is a real Christian? Perhaps I am more of a Christian as an atheist than many Christians are as Christians because I see Jesus as one to be emulated and not worshipped. In my light Jesus never left--what made him a meaningful figure is alive in all human beings, but some way more than others. It is only a matter of circumstances coming together where one may be called upon to risk everything to do right or file oneself into the ranks of the meaningless by punting to someone else. The spirit of Jesus is called the Holy Spirit and it's not "up there" or "out there" somewhere, it's "in here"--in the heart and mind of the living person. Free yourself from myth. (Now if you want to kil me for saying this, you'll know where you stand in the rank of "Christians".)

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Who's to say who is a real Christian? Perhaps I am more of a Christian as an atheist than many Christians are as Christians because I see Jesus as one to be emulated and not worshipped. In my light Jesus never left--what made him a meaningful figure is alive in all human beings, but some way more than others. It is only a matter of circumstances coming together where one may be called upon to risk everything to do right or file oneself into the ranks of the meaningless by punting to someone else. The spirit of Jesus is called the Holy Spirit and it's not "up there" or "out there" somewhere, it's "in here"--in the heart and mind of the living person. Free yourself from myth. (Now if you want to kil me for saying this, you'll know where you stand in the rank of "Christians".)

 

For whatever reason, the Bible suggests that the Holy Spirit and Christ's physical presence on earth are mutually exclusive: when one is here, the other isn't. Don't ask me why. The trinity confuses the heck out of me.

123321 Established Member

123321

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For whatever reason, the Bible suggests that the Holy Spirit and Christ's physical presence on earth are mutually exclusive: when one is here, the other isn't. Don't ask me why. The trinity confuses the heck out of me.

 

Probably because there is no Trinity in the Bible. The Jews and early Christians were monotheists who had no concept of a Trinity or duality. That was added later by proto-Catholics as a way to appeal to pagans they were assimilating who were big on triune gods.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Probably because there is no Trinity in the Bible. The Jews and early Christians were monotheists who had no concept of a Trinity or duality. That was added later by proto-Catholics as a way to appeal to pagans they were assimilating who were big on triune gods.

 

Eh, here we go again. Just like there's no rapture, either. Sure, the words "trinity" and "rapture" do not occur in the Bible. But do a little exegetical research and you eventually realize that the Bible, throughout all the books, refers to three different things/ideas as God: The Father, Jesus Christ (The Son or The Word), and The Holy Spirit. It's not something that's spoonfed in a single verse. Which is why people who aren't Christian love to pick on stuff like this--where you can't get all the information from a single verse. It requires knowledge of the whole Bible.

 

And just a note to moderator of this thread:

 

Why don't the anti-Christians get warned for going off thread? Every time I jump an anti-Christian thread I'm always quickly told to stay on topic or top stop quoting the Bible because it's irrelevant evidence.

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123321 Established Member

123321

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Eh, here we go again. Just like there's no rapture, either.

 

Both are non-Biblical teachings, true. I guess if you define Christian as "someone who follows the teachings of Christ as recorded in the Bible plus what has been added by men over the centuries" then you're OK.

 

 

The Father, Jesus Christ (The Son or The Word), and The Holy Spirit. It's not something that's spoonfed in a single verse.

 

Because it's not there, and I resent the implication that I'm less qualified to discuss this than anyone else. I had a great Bible education for the first 4 decades or so of my life.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Both are non-Biblical teachings, true. I guess if you define Christian as "someone who follows the teachings of Christ as recorded in the Bible plus what has been added by men over the centuries" then you're OK.

 

The greek word used in the New Testament which has come to mean the rapture is "harpazo". It literally means "the snatching up". Read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It's all there. If you call a rose a piano, it doesn't change what the rose is.

123321 Established Member

123321

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  • God is often referred to by name.
  • Jesus never claimed to be, nor did his followers claim he was, God.
  • The Holy Spirit or Ghost is never referred to as a person.
  • There is no reference to a trinity.
  • Jesus IS referred to as a lesser being, the son of God.

 

As for the "2nd coming" of Christ, the Bible says it will be invisible but all would see it.

123321 Established Member

123321

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The greek word used in the New Testament which has come to mean the rapture is "harpazo".

 

It's important to read that while being informed of what the rest of the scriptures teach and always remembering who his audience was.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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  • God is often referred to by name.

Correct.

 

  • Jesus never claimed to be, nor did his followers claim he was, God.

John 10:30.

 

  • The Holy Spirit or Ghost is never referred to as a person.

John 16:13

John 14:26 ("he" is grammatically implied in Greek)

 

  • There is no reference to a trinity.

We already discussed this. See my previous post.

 

  • Jesus IS referred to as a lesser being, the son of God.

That's what Jehovah's Witnesses say. Again, read John 10:30.

 

As for the "2nd coming" of Christ, the Bible says it will be invisible but all would see it.

 

Jesus wasn't invisible the first time. He won't be invisible the second time.

 

"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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It's important to read that while being informed of what the rest of the scriptures teach and always remembering who his audience was.

 

Trust me, I'm aware of the "historical contextual interpretation" which refers to the persecuted Christians under the Roman Empire and how the Apostle Paul was "giving hope" during their persecution.

 

Yet it doesn't explain why this would make him write to Christians and say they will be "caught up in the clouds" in the "twinkling of an eye". This very literal, albeit strange, prophesy doesn't mesh with an allegorical-type pep talk.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Explained here.

 

Knew that was comin'.

 

How about this?

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made...

 

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

(John 1:1-3, 14)

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Explained here.

 

You say the Holy Spirit isn't a real person?

 

Then I suppose God, the Father, isn't a real person, either; because Jesus said in John 4:24 that "God is [a] spirit...".

123321 Established Member

123321

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You say the Holy Spirit isn't a real person?

 

Then I suppose God, the Father, isn't a real person, either; because Jesus said in John 4:24 that "God is [a] spirit...".

 

Clearly the Bible indicates that a spirit can be a person, however it doesn't say that God's Holy Spirit, the force he uses to effect changes, is a person.

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M30USA Established Member

M30USA

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Clearly the Bible indicates that a spirit can be a person, however it doesn't say that God's Holy Spirit, the force he uses to effect changes, is a person.

 

You're playing with words. You keep redefining what it means to be a person. You just said a spirit can be a person if it's God the Father but it's not a person if it's the Holy Spirit? All spirit's in the Bible are persons. Angels are spirits, as well. You are thinking of a principality or doctrine.

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