Can your physical appearance/presence be improved?

[verhrzn]

 

Not insane at all, they're doing the same thing that you're doing - basing their self worth on appearance and when they see better looking people, they feel like sh*t about themselves

 

My insecurities have very little to do with other women. My insecurity is all about the fact that looks are what matters for women, and I don't have the desired looks to attract a mate. Period. If I passed a certain "bar" of sexiness, it really wouldn't matter if other women were hotter, because there are only so many of them (and so many men) in the world. Past a certain level, I could still achieve a decent mate.

 

There could be only 10 gorgeous women in the world, and my looks would still be a problem, because guys still wouldn't want me (except in desperation.)

 

I see nothing wrong with basing self-worth on appearance. Appearance, as a woman, is what gets you through the door. And you gotta admit, it's rather hypocritical to have a gym rat, body-building obsessed guy who is constantly posting pictures of sexy women say that looks don't matter.

[ThaWholigan]

Uh. No.

 

I ask again: is it really "humble" if an ugly girl isn't vain about her looks?? What does she have to be humble about?

 

I think we need to draw a clear distinction: women who are uncomfortable in their bodies and shouldn't be (because they are gorgeous.) THESE women would increase their attractiveness level by just knocking off their insane insecurities.

 

Then there's the other group, of women who are uncomfortable in their bodies because their bodies are actually ugly. Being accepting of this is NOT going to make the women more attractive. You can't be "sexy" with ugliness. You can't be "humble" about being unappealing.

 

Uh, yeah

 

I think I need to draw a clear distinction:

 

There is a difference between comfort and vanity. I don't think "ugly" girls should be vain about their looks, they should just be comfortable. Whether it means accepting that they're ugly or not, it should not be a source of complete insecurity. I've seen girls that are so ugly they look HURT - with boyfriends. And guys that didn't need to settle either. You all already know I meet a lot of people.

 

But hey, who am I trying to convince. I'll leave you to debate this on your own. It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that I believe me more

 

Sorry

 

Come on brother, I can't in good conscience agree with your romanticized view here...but you and I both know that we just have to agree to disagree...

 

Yeah well, you don't have to agree.....

 

You should see some of these girls that have guys after them - not the lookers you would think. All they needed was to not be down on themselved because of how they look. Sometimes I see them in the club and on first glance I'm like ......but then you see them in action and you're like .............then they talk to you and you're like ":eek: OK, I can see why they like her now".

 

If this is just my "romantic view", I must be blind.....

[verhrzn]

There are plenty of women far less attractive than you in happy relationships. Why don't you address this point?

 

Some people get lucky. Some people settle. I mean, should I start planning on buying a multi-million dollar house because someone I know won the lottery?

 

 

 

I never said looks don't matter. I said whining that you don't look like a supermodel is not going to solve anything. You need to improve yourself as much as possible and then put in the work to find a mate.

 

Everybody can do it - there are all sorts of people in love in this world. There are people fat, skinny, short, tall, rich, poor and everything in between who are in happy relationships

 

We all gotta play with the cards we were dealt with in life

 

And how would you play the cards of being a short, fat, ugly female with absolutely no talents or redeeming qualities? How would you improve when you have already reached a ceiling, and yet are still sub-quality?

 

I say again... pay for my cosmetic surgery and we'll see how insecure I am.

[USMCHokie]

There are plenty of women far less attractive than you in happy relationships. Why don't you address this point?

 

I have to agree with him here...

[verhrzn]

Luck is a fraud, it doesn't exist

 

Tell that to people who won the lottery. Or landed that once-in-a-lifetime-job they weren't quite qualified for. Or got amazing spouses even though they are, themselves, awful human beings.

 

This lesson is as old as the Bible: the world is not fair. That is very definition of luck. People don't get based on what they deserve, people get based on random chance with some slight self-control. Good people die, bad people live, jerks get rich, etc.

 

Your self loathing is apparent in this post. You should go talk to a psychologist...

 

It is not self-loathing to admit something perfectly true. Is it self-loathing to say the sky is blue?

 

You said play the cards Fate has dealt you, and I asked: how do you play those cards?

[Bristolius]

This thread and it's popularity here at LS is kind of depressing.

 

"Hit the gym!" and you will become good-looking. Then you will get the love you've earned.

 

Really? Are you all certain?

 

Any reason to learn about friendship? Know all you need to know about relationship dynamics? Will being good-looking make you a good listener? Does it increase your empathy? Will it make you curious about other people? Will it make you kind?

 

What kind of relationships do you you want?

 

Or do you just want beautiful lovers?

[ThaWholigan]

This thread and it's popularity here at LS is kind of depressing.

 

"Hit the gym!" and you will become good-looking. Then you will get the love you've earned.

 

Really? Are you all certain?

 

Any reason to learn about friendship? Know all you need to know about relationship dynamics? Will being good-looking make you a good listener? Does it increase your empathy? Will it make you curious about other people? Will it make you kind?

 

What kind of relationships do you you want?

 

Or do you just want beautiful lovers?

I've made threads about that stuff before - all the time in fact. And yet it always comes back to looks.

 

Besides, I've long held the belief that looks are subjective to a large extent, and that people will date others who ARE attractive to them. It's not really about love (yet). It's about being attractive and desirable to the one (or ones) you want to date.

 

All the questions you asked are good questions, and I've already raised them before.

[ThaWholigan]

You are completely and utterly delusional

 

 

 

You think all those ugly and fat women in happy relationships just got lucky? You think the only way to get a decent man is by looking like a pornstar?

 

 

 

Come on now, do you not see how ridiculous these statements are?

Losing battle, AToA. Losing battle.

[verhrzn]

You are completely and utterly delusional

 

You think all those ugly and fat women in happy relationships just got lucky? You think the only way to get a decent man is by looking like a pornstar?

 

Come on now, do you not see how ridiculous these statements are?

 

Nope, I think they are perfectly logical. Please lay out your reasoning as to why they are not.

[verhrzn]

So all the ugly or fat women in happy relationships just hit the lottery eh?

 

For someone who is a self proclaimed nerd, that's awfully poor logic there

 

Or they settled. The lottery was a metaphor... but people DO get lucky. Unless you're saying everyone who ends up with cancer somehow deserved it?... If people can be unlucky enough to get a certain disease, then why does it not stand that people can get lucky enough to have a relationship?

 

Maybe you should try explaining it yourself... you post pictures of absurdly hot women, claim that that's what you find attractive, and then claim you have average standards. So you explain how those fat, ugly women got relationships, when you are CONSTANTLY emphasizing looks.

[Bristolius]

Or they settled. The lottery was a metaphor... but people DO get lucky. Unless you're saying everyone who ends up with cancer somehow deserved it?... If people can be unlucky enough to get a certain disease, then why does it not stand that people can get lucky enough to have a relationship?

 

Maybe you should try explaining it yourself... you post pictures of absurdly hot women, claim that that's what you find attractive, and then claim you have average standards. So you explain how those fat, ugly women got relationships, when you are CONSTANTLY emphasizing looks.

 

Luck can be bad. Your future isn't set. If you believe in streaks of bad or good luck, you're falling for the gambler's fallacy. This way of thinking makes casinos very profitable.

[verhrzn]

Because people's appearance standards plummet like crazy when they like somebody and like being around them. It's common sense really

 

It's why you see beautiful women with nerds and chubbies sometimes. They like spending time with them and that nerd/chubby dude becomes more attractive to them

 

Women and men do not have the same aesthetic standard. Women's initial attraction level can be overcome with a guy's personality, when a guy approaches her and shows he's worthwhile.

 

But a guy has to be physically attracted to a woman first to even approach her. Why the heck would a guy hang out with an ugly woman (so he can get to know her better) if he isn't initially interested? That makes no sense.

 

Luck can be bad. Your future isn't set. If you believe in streaks of bad or good luck, you're falling for the gambler's fallacy. This way of thinking makes casinos very profitable.

 

Unless you just know your luck is bad in certain areas. We have no evidence that the future ISN'T set.

[Bristolius]

Unless you just know your luck is bad in certain areas. We have no evidence that the future ISN'T set.

 

If freewill is only an illusion, the universe could still surprise you.

[verhrzn]

It's not that much different, I know very ugly women who have good boyfriends

 

It's because they have pleasant personalities and are not miserable and bitter, like you are

 

Or because they got lucky. Again, how did their boyfriends get to know them? They were either initially attracted to them (which is possible... maybe the women aren't as ugly as you assume) and got to know them, or the woman got lucky and the guy was just magically around her enough to see her personality.

 

You can't discredit the luck angle of it. I am miserable and bitter because I have awful luck, and awful looks, an insurmountable combination.

 

And again you avoid my question: how does one play their cards, when they're born an ugly female with no redeemable qualities?

[verhrzn]

I believe a wise man once said "luck is when preparation meets opportunity". Bottom line is that there are women who are way way wayyyy less attractive than you in happy relationships and the only person you have to blame is yourself for that

 

 

As far as your ridiculous question goes, you're not ugly and you would have a great personality if you stopped being so bitter and miserable. Lots of guys love nerd/gamer chicks because they love videogames themselves

 

If looks don't matter, then what is the point of this thread?

 

And you are avoiding my question, not answering it. You yourself, even at your best attempt at appearing non-shallow, said I'm "not bad." Which is Hot Guy Speak for "Ugh I'd totally ignore you and call you a whale to my friends, but I can't risk appearing shallow." So... gimme a freaking break.

 

Actually answer my question: a girl born ugly, no redeemable qualities. How do you improve that? How do you play those cards?

[verhrzn]

Alright I'm done speaking to you because you're just dead set on interpreting everything I say in the most horrible way imaginable

 

I hope one day you grow up and see the error of your ways and stop being so miserable and bitter because I'm sure there's a man out there who would enjoy being your boyfriend. We're not all the horrible monsters you deem us to be and that's all I can tell you

 

Where the heck do I deem you all horrible monsters??

 

I just deem "you all" as needing physical attraction to a female. You are CONSTANTLY posting pictures of the standards of girls' beauty. So why are you so friggin surprised when I assume that, yep, guys need to think a girl is hot to date her.

 

Have we all not agreed on this point? I'm not on some parallel forum, right?

[verhrzn]

If that's the case, there wouldn't be so many unattractive and overweight women in happy relationships. It has nothing to do with luck, it has everything to do with not being miserable and bitter

 

end of story

 

Then why bother improving looks? Why bother with make-up, or going to the gym?

 

Or if looks are so unimportant... why aren't you dating a fat, unattractive woman? I'm pretty sure there's a surplus of them out there. Put your money where your mouth is.

[mesmerized]

If that's the case, there wouldn't be so many unattractive and overweight women in happy relationships. It has nothing to do with luck, it has everything to do with not being miserable and bitter

 

 

 

end of story

 

Actually studies show that overweight women have lower quality relationships than slimmer women.

 

Let's be realistic here, looks is very much important and less attractive men and women have a harder time in dating. This is more of the case for women since they are valued mostly for their looks.

[verhrzn]

I can't date somebody I'm not attracted to, but there are tons and tons and tons of guys far less shallow than I am, which is why there are millions of ugly and fat girls (legitimately ugly and/or fat, not like you calling yourself fat when you have a flat stomach) in happy relationships

 

That in itself defeats your arguments. If legitimately fat or ugly girls can get a man, why can't you?

 

Because the men settled, or the girls get lucky. Why do you keep avoiding disproving that?

 

Or maybe I'm just even uglier than they are, ever thought of that?

 

Actually studies show that overweight women have lower quality relationships than slimmer women.

 

Let's be realistic here, looks is very much important and less attractive men and women have a harder time in dating. This is more of the case for women since they are valued mostly for their looks.

 

Right?? Isn't this fairly common knowledge?

[mesmerized]

I know you don't mean that

 

I've seen conventionally hot, thin blonde girls get passed over for the sexy size 16 brunette too many times to even contemplate being wrong about this

 

lol, I don't know what I mean anymore. k, I'll be honest, I do think I'm sexy and I am grateful for what I have...but I feel like the stereotype I described would get a loot more attention. And I'm not sure if I had your experience about someone passing over a conventionally hot girl for another one.

[verhrzn]

Luck = preparation meets opportunity. It's got nothing to do with flipping a coin and having it land a certain way. Those girls found men because they are outgoing and pleasant to be around

 

Why do you keep avoiding taking responsibility for your own failures?

 

Because I've done all I can. I have hit my ceiling. Plenty of posters have agreed there IS a ceiling for improvement. I have hit mine in every area, and it's still not enough. So, I've already taken responsibility for what I can control, but I can't control guys being attracted to me any more than I already am.

[denise_xo]

Sorry, I haven't read this whole thread and I'm just adding a disconnected post: I recommend the book Presence/Second Circle by Patsy Rodenburg - it addressed the question of how to strengthen your 'presence'.

[ThaWholigan]

lol, I don't know what I mean anymore. k, I'll be honest, I do think I'm sexy and I am grateful for what I have...but I feel like the stereotype I described would get a loot more attention. And I'm not sure if I had your experience about someone passing over a conventionally hot girl for another one.

A lot more attention - maybe. But the right attention? From the right guys? You never know.....

 

I'll let you in on a secret. I have never really been attracted to blondes (except Buffy, but I was 10 ). And I know a lot of guys who feel the same way. I also know a lot of guys who don't really like "thin". Slim, yeah slim is nice. I like girls to be a little bit thicker than slim. I knew a guy who exclusively liked fat girls. When we were driving, he used to holler at them out of his car window, much to my amusement. Asking for their number and such - he really used to call them .

 

The only time I've seen thin, blonde women ever get lots of attention is at a bashment rave (for some reason - and it's usually the thick white girls who get it anyway) or a place where a lot of white dudes are, because it's usually typical white dudes who like blondes . The ones that read Page 3 in the morning lol....

 

Really depends. Do you want more attention from more guys, or attention from the hot dude with the 6 pack and the massive willy, who just happens to like sexy, olive skinned girls with curves? . I kid....

[Titanwolf]

During my studies, I read something along the lines of "As you lose body fat%, your face becomes more defined. Your cheekbones, jaw and neckline are more prominent and you become more attractive to the opposite sex". Something to think about.

[mesmerized]

A lot more attention - maybe. But the right attention? From the right guys? You never know.....

 

I'll let you in on a secret. I have never really been attracted to blondes (except Buffy, but I was 10 ). And I know a lot of guys who feel the same way. I also know a lot of guys who don't really like "thin". Slim, yeah slim is nice. I like girls to be a little bit thicker than slim. I knew a guy who exclusively liked fat girls. When we were driving, he used to holler at them out of his car window, much to my amusement. Asking for their number and such - he really used to call them .

 

The only time I've seen thin, blonde women ever get lots of attention is at a bashment rave (for some reason - and it's usually the thick white girls who get it anyway) or a place where a lot of white dudes are, because it's usually typical white dudes who like blondes . The ones that read Page 3 in the morning lol....

 

Really depends. Do you want more attention from more guys, or attention from the hot dude with the 6 pack and the massive willy, who just happens to like sexy, olive skinned girls with curves? . I kid....

 

Last one please lol

 

I don't know, my experience just hasn't been the same as yours. Maybe it's related to demographics.

 

During my studies, I read something along the lines of "As you lose body fat%, your face becomes more defined. Your cheekbones, jaw and neckline are more prominent and you become more attractive to the opposite sex". Something to think about.

 

I agree with this though it doesn't necessarily apply to me. When I gained weight people told me I look healthier, more beautiful than when I was thinner. Who knows...