Men think they know when a woman fakes...but they really don't.

[kaylan]

Well, I've never been dumped and i'm seldom single because i'm so sought after.

 

I guess I can settle with that

I can only imagine how awesome your options are if you chose an unnattractive bloke who cant get you turned on, nor can he get you off.

 

If youre ok with settling for unarousing and unsatisfying sex, then by all means do so. My issue is that I dont think your guy would be ok dating a girl who finds him unattractive and doesnt enjoy sex with him. I couldnt do that to someone.

[kaylan]

I've rarely had an encounter where I didn't orgasm in any way and that has little to do with me orgasming easily. I'm just honest and communicate and more often than not, guys are more than happy to help you out and make it happen. Fakers lack confidence/self worth and communication skills and they often have tens of ways to justify their act, like most liars do.

My kinda gal. If only you lived in NY =P

[Leopard]

If you're so sought after, why are you with a guy you're not even attracted to? I wouldn't touch a guy I'm not attracted to with a pole, let alone want to spend the rest of my life with him.

 

Honestly, other than desperate, you sound childish and immature. How old are you?

 

Is this the same guy you posted about that you are so ashamed of his looks that wouldn't put his pics up on facebook? That it is nothing serious to you but it is to him??

 

Because out of all the guys that chase me, he is the best option. There is a reason I chose him over the other guys. You sound like I have to wait for Mr Perfect (haha)

 

Perfection doesn't exist, and it's selfish and young of you to think I should wait around until prince charming shows up. He won't.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I think the problem for men is sex is generally about the big O, not the other components that a woman feels that makes it an enjoyable and pleasurable experience for her.

 

As far as faking orgasms, I think both sides can lie about sexual pleasure and fake orgasms, especially if the others persons feelings will be hurt or it's a sign that a woman would wants the sex to finish.

 

Men egos are pretty vulnerable because they all want to believe they are giving maximum pleasure and know exactly what they are doing...regardless of the whether the woman is telling them what they're doing is wrong ,And It's an important part of sex for men, so men have a hard time believing why it's not the beginning and end for women.

 

Women feel obligated to portraying a satisfied woman but they also don't often communicate with men out of fear of hurting their feelings and emotions. And a lot of women don't know how to explain or break this down to a man, If you're a man that knows how to please her then you've probably figured her out better than she could explain it.

 

Intimacy is a complex beast and includes a big psychological, emotional component which I think men fail to properly combine...for them it's always a complete physical interaction or at least for the most part...that might work or do well when you've just met a person and she's already horny over you and into you but as the real relationship starts to develop a lot of those missing proponents will start to be a big deal. That's why the honeymoon phase won't last forever If you're just relying on this initial peak interest and attraction chemical injections in your brain to hold together the relationship. Especially as the trust, bond, and companionship, support is properly tested and revealed.

 

This is worth reposting later down the thread. Great post Ninja.

 

I think there needs to be sensitivity on both sides. If a woman isn't orgasming with her man, then the guy can't just jump on her about it or try to force her to have one either through his over attention to the final "O". I always find it interesting in these discussion how often it comes down to being sensitive to men about how vulenerable the are with their egos about this stuff but women that try to protect their man's ego get casterated and told "well that's her problem". No. It's both their problem since they are a couple. Both men and women are vulnerable during sex and more understanding between each other instead of casteration for the ways we believe we are failing is key.

 

Edited to add that women are told very early in life to stuff down their own needs in favor of those around them, we are socalized to think of everyone else before ourselves, it's understandable to see why a woman might not be honest about her lack of orgasm. I'm not saying it's the best thing to do but it certainly is understandable.

[Els]

The OP started with faking... because she is not having orgasms with her BF (he's not her husband).

 

She wants to stay with her BF because he's a wonderful person.... having an orgasm is secondary to her. In that respect, my advice would be no different if she were married to him or not.

 

I'm not suggesting she keep faking. Never did. I only said that I felt her priorities were totally fine. Character first, physical attraction/orgasms second.

 

Regarding my comment above... that was for other people debating the merits of faking/not faking. Also to explain to the guys why women fake.

 

Oops, right, I got the OP mixed up with the married girl in the article. Gotcha.

 

I agree with your viewpoint re: priorities, actually, but you need to see that she is using your posts to justify her decisions to fake. And as for priorities, if they are as emotionally connected and compatible as she claims, she should not need to lie about having orgasms when she actually isn't. That's the crux of the issue that I have with this. It isn't a 'great R in all other aspects' if you can't even be honest with your partner without it causing your R to descend into the flames. If there was a genuine emotional connection and the guy was as compatible and great as she claimed, she should be able to be honest about things.

 

My main gripe is that the OP's long-term bf has imagined a reality all this while, that does not exist. Because she led him down that road purposefully. I can't countenance or validate the need to continuously lie to one's partner, about anything.

[RedRobin]

Oops, right, I got the OP mixed up with the married girl in the article. Gotcha.

 

I agree with your viewpoint re: priorities, actually, but you need to see that she is using your posts to justify her decisions to fake. And as for priorities, if they are as emotionally connected and compatible as she claims, she should not need to lie about having orgasms when she actually isn't. That's the crux of the issue that I have with this. It isn't a 'great R in all other aspects' if you can't even be honest with your partner without it causing your R to descend into the flames. If there was a genuine emotional connection and the guy was as compatible and great as she claimed, she should be able to be honest about things.

 

My main gripe is that the OP's long-term bf has imagined a reality all this while, that does not exist. Because she led him down that road purposefully. I can't countenance or validate the need to continuously lie to one's partner, about anything.

 

Based on my experience and observations, relationships where character is placed at a premium over physical attraction/orgasms tend to last longer than the ones with those priorities reversed.

 

The OP is being attacked for not putting physical attraction/orgasms as high on her list as others here do.

 

Not every woman is super orgasmic, nor wants to be. This is coming (no pun intended) from a woman who regularly has 2-3 orgasms (a few times, as many as 5) with a man...

 

Maybe it is because I'm so orgasmic... AND I went through a period in my life where I didn't want to have them with men. So, I get it.

 

I've observed first hand how little value (the ability to have one or not have one) has in a relationship. Really... after awhile it becomes like riding a bike... and the men? After they manage the mechanics, it really is no compliment to them as human beings. I really wish people would GET OFF (ha ha) the emphasis on it as being the end-all-to-be-all of sexual intimacy. It just isn't.

 

Of course, she's not going to be able to explain this to her young BF, who has been raised like the rest of you who seem to treat sex as a race to the finish line... or have some ideal in your head about the magic triad of a perfect relationship. Not everyone is looking for perfection, k?

 

Yes, she is faking her orgasms... and to the extent that doing so would make her less happy in the relationship, and therefore, less happy with him WOULD have a whole lot of bearing on him.

 

This is probably why people have gotten so wrapped around the axle about it.

 

Personally, I see her dilemma as rather short-lived. As her care and trust continue to develop with this great person, I have every reason to believe she will open up more and find ways to help him help her.

 

That is MUCH more constructive than dumping him, or forcing her issue on him. That's a quick path to developing a sexual aversion. Where she stops enjoying sexual interaction at all because she feels obliged to tell every bozo she's with that she has difficulty achieving orgasm...

 

That is how I see it.

 

If you'd like to be helpful, perhaps you could join xxoo in helping her come up with some constructive methods to slowly bring what appears to be some success alone (ie ability to achieve orgasm alone, albeit with difficulty) into her relationship with him in a way they can both manage. Hmm??

Edited July 1, 2012 by RedRobin

[RedRobin]

I wanted to comment on your bolded statement...

 

They both share the responsibility here... He took it personally when she was unable to achieve orgasm with him.

 

She is struggling to understand her own sexuality.

 

Happens to millions of couples every day.

 

My sense is that they will find a way to figure it out.

[Els]

Based on my experience and observations, relationships where character is placed at a premium over physical attraction/orgasms tend to last longer than the ones with those priorities reversed.

 

The OP is being attacked for not putting physical attraction/orgasms as high on her list as others here do.

 

Not every woman is super orgasmic, nor wants to be. This is coming (no pun intended) from a woman who regularly has 2-3 orgasms (a few times, as many as 5) with a man...

 

Maybe it is because I'm so orgasmic... AND I went through a period in my life where I didn't want to have them with men. So, I get it.

 

I've observed first hand how little value (the ability to have one or not have one) has in a relationship. Really... after awhile it becomes like riding a bike... and the men? After they manage the mechanics, it really is no compliment to them as human beings. I really wish people would GET OFF (ha ha) the emphasis on it as being the end-all-to-be-all of sexual intimacy. It just isn't.

 

Of course, she's not going to be able to explain this to her young BF, who has been raised like the rest of you who seem to treat sex as a race to the finish line... or have some ideal in your head about the magic triad of a perfect relationship. Not everyone is looking for perfection, k?

 

Yes, she is faking her orgasms... and to the extent that doing so would make her less happy in the relationship, and therefore, less happy with him WOULD have a whole lot of bearing on him.

 

This is probably why people have gotten so wrapped around the axle about it.

 

Personally, I see her dilemma as rather short-lived. As her care and trust continue to develop with this great person, I have every reason to believe she will open up more and find ways to help him help her.

 

That is MUCH more constructive than dumping him, or forcing her issue on him. That's a quick path to developing a sexual aversion. Where she stops enjoying sexual interaction at all because she feels obliged to tell every bozo she's with that she has difficulty achieving orgasm...

 

That is how I see it.

 

If you'd like to be helpful, perhaps you could join xxoo in helping her come up with some constructive methods to slowly bring what appears to be some success alone (ie ability to achieve orgasm alone, albeit with difficulty) into her relationship with him in a way they can both manage. Hmm??

 

If you read back through the thread, I had indeed offered suggestions on how they could work on their sex lives, as had several others. However, the OP is not interested in taking any of them, so I don't see why I should elaborate on that. Had she chosen to respond or ask questions pertaining to that, I would have been happy to assist.

 

It's disingenious of you to put everyone here who disagrees with you in the same boat and assume that all of us are saying the same things. Nowhere have I ever attacked her for choosing to remain in an orgasm-less relationship. That is her CHOICE and she is entitled to it. However, her bf is also entitled to his own choices, and he is not given a fair chance at them because he is being lied to. THAT is the crux of the issue. And if she needs to lie to prevent everything from going to hell in a handbasket, well, clearly the R is NOT going well on all other fronts.

[Million.to.1]

i think it's fantastic that this thread has gone on with some really interesting discussion.

 

i posted a thread about this a while back and got shot down in a ball of flames, everyone who responded was either overly defensive about how it would be impossible for a woman to deceive them with fake orgasms, or rudely told me it was wrong to deceive my partner, but no one offered any advice on how to remedy the situation.

 

even how defensive male posters were about it made me realise how much of their egos were involved in their 100% self certainty in their ability to please a woman.

 

once you start a pattern of faking, it's not an easy thing to just fix. you can't just one day stop lying and expect there not to be other problems that arise from that. it's almost like you need to fade it out, while instigating some other positive changes.

[RedRobin]

However, her bf is also entitled to his own choices, and he is not given a fair chance at them because he is being lied to.

 

My observation is that he is acting like he prefers to be lied to.

 

Alot of men do. If they didn't, women wouldn't fake. That is because, for most men (especially younger ones) the world revolves around their penis and coming. It is only much later that they value the other things. For some of them, they never get to this understanding.

 

Talking to most men about the value of intimacy and connection... and the link to that and a woman's sexual satisfaction is a perfect case of "Mars vs Venus". It's a 'battle' as old as time.

 

 

And if she needs to lie to prevent everything from going to hell in a handbasket, well, clearly the R is NOT going well on all other fronts.

 

Like I said, I think they'll figure it out.

 

My recommendation is that she phase in some time where she is pleasuring herself, and he watches. He can also masturbate while watching or not. Whatever she is comfortable with. Once she is comfortable having an orgasm in his presence, they can slowly phase in some other activities where he joins in. He would also be able to see how long it takes her to do herself.

 

By showing him how she likes it, with no pressure on him to 'perform' and also demonstrating how long it might take her... she is helping set reasonable expectations for both of them.

 

That would be one way they could build trust.

[xxoo]

once you start a pattern of faking, it's not an easy thing to just fix. you can't just one day stop lying and expect there not to be other problems that arise from that. it's almost like you need to fade it out, while instigating some other positive changes.

 

Is it even possible to move to sexual honesty incrementally, without admitting that you'd been lying? Has anyone managed this?

 

Yes, it is hard, and it will rock the boat to admit you've not been sexually satisfied all this time. But rocking the boat is often necessary to change the course.

 

Being afraid to rock the boat, and lacking confidence that you CAN work together to get the boat on a better course, may be an underlying reason that women fake orgasm.

[Leigh 87]

Interesting - the person who highlighted that my bf JUST have coe across fakers, given all the girls he has been with have orgasmed.

..............That is EXACTLY what I thought!!!!!!!!!!! hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

Of course, I was too polite to tell him. He would not believe me anyway. The male ego is too strong. And he does have a big and nice penis and is good at sex, therefore he probably does not see why they wouldn't have orgasmed.

 

I almost orgasmed the other day from sex, yesterday actually:mad: It is just too damn hard to make me orgasm through sex, cos I masturbate far too much, and love sex so much without having an O through it, so see little motivation to stop masturbating, besides him getting me to orgasm through oral.

 

I would much rather him get me to orgasm through oral first, and then follow it up with sex; as I still very much enjoy sex with not orgasm, I prefer him going down on me to bring e to orgasm, and love the intimacy of sex and it feels great without an orgasm.

 

The OP has an issue I would not deal with, however; I could not be with a guy I was not physically attracted to. I do not orgasm because I have a difficult vagina ( damn you, you silly vagina!). My inability to orgasm is not because I am with the wrong guy, though, and is everything to do with my damn vagina:mad:

[Leigh 87]

This is worth reposting later down the thread. Great post Ninja.

 

I think there needs to be sensitivity on both sides. If a woman isn't orgasming with her man, then the guy can't just jump on her about it or try to force her to have one either through his over attention to the final "O". I always find it interesting in these discussion how often it comes down to being sensitive to men about how vulenerable the are with their egos about this stuff but women that try to protect their man's ego get casterated and told "well that's her problem". No. It's both their problem since they are a couple. Both men and women are vulnerable during sex and more understanding between each other instead of casteration for the ways we believe we are failing is key.

 

Edited to add that women are told very early in life to stuff down their own needs in favor of those around them, we are socalized to think of everyone else before ourselves, it's understandable to see why a woman might not be honest about her lack of orgasm. I'm not saying it's the best thing to do but it certainly is understandable.

 

 

 

 

 

and this^^^^^^^^ I Just did not want to hurt my guys feelings, I loved the sex without an orgasm, and did not want to burden the early stages of a relationship with a concept he is foreign with.....That some girls cannot orgasm through sex.

 

Some guys, like my bf, are conditioned to expect women to orgasm through sex - when actually, a lot of women need oral, and guys where he comes from do not readily give oral unless they are in love with the girl, or the girl is something special look wise.

 

I would say some of his girls have not orgasmed, yet not been able to tell him " hey I did not orgasm, how abouts a little oral so I can orgasm too!"

He is a great guy and the most loving boyfriend I could ask for and he is very happy to make ME orasm through oral after sex or normally before......but not with girls he just hooks up with and mean little to him.

 

If more men were happy to please a girl before sex and get her to orgasm BEFORE the act - a lot of girls may stop faking out of a percieved obligation.

I know I felt obligated to orgasm through sex at first. Furthermore, it took my boyfriend a while to handle his inability to make me orgasm. Worse still - he was lazy and accustomed to getting girls " done" through sex, too lazy to bother with girls who needed more " help".....

 

It took my boyfriend to be in a loving relatioship, for him to relaxed about sex not leading to orgasms - he is totally fine with it with me, because he just goes down on me and finishes me that way. He could not and did not feel like doing this with others, the girls would have read him, and a couple may have faked because they could not see him " helping" then beyond the actual sex.

[RedRobin]

Is it even possible to move to sexual honesty incrementally, without admitting that you'd been lying? Has anyone managed this?

 

Yes, it is hard, and it will rock the boat to admit you've not been sexually satisfied all this time. But rocking the boat is often necessary to change the course.

 

Being afraid to rock the boat, and lacking confidence that you CAN work together to get the boat on a better course, may be an underlying reason that women fake orgasm.

 

I agree with all of this... for women who are otherwise can have orgasms and are experiencing some difficulty having them with her partner (for whatever reason).

 

It is not clear to me that the OP has or wants orgasms very often. In that case, she is in a tough position...

 

I don't know too many men who would stay with a woman who couldn't orgasm... even though it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

 

So, what is she supposed to do? Be celibate? I don't think so.

[Ninjainpajamas]

ninja is stupid

 

[xxoo]

I don't know too many men who would stay with a woman who couldn't orgasm... even though it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

 

So, what is she supposed to do? Be celibate? I don't think so.

 

If they loved each other, and enjoyed sex together, I don't see why a man wouldn't stay with a woman who couldn't orgasm.

 

It would take a man and relationship with a lot of security and maturity, but is he such a great guy (as argued), or the relationship so great, if that security and maturity is absent?

[Million.to.1]

 

I don't know too many men who would stay with a woman who couldn't orgasm... even though it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

 

this ^^^

 

If they loved each other, and enjoyed sex together, I don't see why a man wouldn't stay with a woman who couldn't orgasm.

 

 

xxoo.... what you're saying is great, but it's THEORY.

 

RedRobin speaks REALITY.

 

If a man feels emasculated, particularly in the bedroom, he will check out of the relationship.

[mn311601]

Not that I'm having sex, but my general attitude would be to assume she's faking 100% of the time.

[Badsingularity]

 

If a man feels emasculated, particularly in the bedroom, he will check out of the relationship.

 

 

Only weak, uneducated men would do this.

[sid3]

Only weak, uneducated men would do this.

 

Yeah I agree. Suddenly a dating advice forum has become a platform to teach others about the relevancy of orgasms. Nasty or sad, I can't decide.

[Ladydrib]

There are actually three situations:

 

1. No orgasm at all (neither via intercourse nor any other type of stimulation). This one, I don't know how it is possible, but some women say it is true.

 

2. An orgasm only by some stimulation other than intercourse. This does in fact depend entirely on technique. And if a woman communicates with her man, it should never be a problem.

 

3. An orgasm by intercourse alone. This is very rare from what I have read, discussed with friends, and experienced. In fact, I for a long time wondered if it was a myth all together. But, it is not. And I believe it has absolutely nothing to do with technique. It cannot be taught. It cannot be forced. It cannot be created by discussion, AND it should also NEVER be faked. It is unique and only occurs with a very intense level of chemistry between two people.

[RedRobin]

Only weak, uneducated men would do this.

 

This is also a theory.

 

In today's GIGS/BBD world, there are plenty of other women who either a) have orgasms for real or b) happily fake them well enough for the guy not to tell...

 

most likely a combination of both, depending on the circumstances.

[RedRobin]

If they loved each other, and enjoyed sex together, I don't see why a man wouldn't stay with a woman who couldn't orgasm.

 

It would take a man and relationship with a lot of security and maturity, but is he such a great guy (as argued), or the relationship so great, if that security and maturity is absent?

 

ah, ok... at which point does she tell him this? If it is before they have established an emotional connection, then odds are quite good that the relationship would not proceed.

 

After? Sure. People stay together through all sorts of things after an emotional connection is established.

 

But here is the thing... I'm still hard pressed to understand how a woman's ability to orgasm has any impact whatsoever on a man UNLESS her inability to do so makes her less satisfied with him and the relationship.

 

See, that is the underlying assumption here... that she isn't having orgasms... therefore she must be unhappy and she is bound to cheat. I just don't buy that.

Edited July 1, 2012 by RedRobin

[Badsingularity]

This is also a theory.

 

 

Incorrect. A womans orgasm does not dictate who I am or how much of a man I am.

 

I do.

[ThaWholigan]

My theory is that a lot of men are crap in bed

 

Am I bad for thinking that?