Men think they know when a woman fakes...but they really don't.

[RedRobin]

Another concern: faking gets old. How long could a person reasonably keep up the performance, without growing resentful?

 

I dunno. I'm sure it would get really old telling BF after BF she can't have orgasms.

 

This is why I suggested she seek assistance in some way from a counselor.

 

Until she does that, I honestly believe that telling him will do more damage than good... I also don't think she needs to be celibate while she figures it out.

 

Have some patience people. Rome wasn't built in a day. Just because you all find it so easy doesn't mean everyone else does (orgasms and sexual fulfillment). Give it a rest already.

[Els]

I'll leave him

 

Do you think this is fair to him? How would you feel if a guy was with you just because he thought you were the best he could get at that point, but he was always intending to leave you if someone he truly falls in love with comes along?

[RedRobin]

We're talking about two different things. If she is able to pleasure herself but still cannot orgasm then that is one thing - then a therapist is needed.

 

She says she can on her own, but with difficulty.

 

Expecting her BF to be her 'therapist' is not wise.

 

I realize this issue is out of the range of most people's experience here, which is probably why we keep butting heads.

[Els]

 

Have some patience people. Rome wasn't built in a day. Just because you all find it so easy doesn't mean everyone else does (orgasms and sexual fulfillment). Give it a rest already.

 

I can't believe you got this far without reading the countless posts explaining that the problem here ISN'T her difficulty in orgasming.

[RedRobin]

I can't believe you got this far without reading the countless posts explaining that the problem here ISN'T her difficulty in orgasming.

 

I can't believe you don't see the connection between something she might be ashamed about and lying about it. Something she may or may not even be able to physically fix.

 

(dope slap to your head).

[Els]

...Did you even READ my posts, RR? Or hers, for the matter?

 

She says she doesn't love him and would leave him in a heartbeat if someone better comes along.

 

But really, I'm not going to bother engaging in discussion with you in this thread anymore. You're proven yourself not capable of logical and civil exchange not once but multiple times up to now, with your unprovoked personal jabs and your constant reversion to the 'Just because you all find it so easy doesn't mean everyone else does' red herring.

 

Not going to make the same mistake of leaving you unblocked this time.

[RedRobin]

...Did you even READ my posts, RR? Or hers, for the matter?

 

She says she doesn't love him and would leave him in a heartbeat if someone better comes along.

 

But really, I'm not going to bother engaging in discussion with you in this thread anymore. You're proven yourself not capable of logical and civil exchange not once but multiple times up to now, with your unprovoked personal jabs and your constant reversion to the 'Just because you all find it so easy doesn't mean everyone else does' red herring.

 

Not going to make the same mistake of leaving you unblocked this time.

 

She didn't say that... She said she did love him... she's just not 'in love' with him. Attachment love... not romantic love.

 

It's so nice how you keep making up what you think the OP says just for you to prove... what exactly?

 

Anyway, the debate is getting old. For the OP's sake, I sincerely hope she gets some kind of assistance... I really hope this idiotic thread hasn't driven her further underground or made her feel more ashamed about it.

 

Once she can understand her sexuality a bit better, I'm sure she will be in a better position to lovingly confront or deal with this issue with her BF.

[Radu]

Once my bf accidentally saw my phone when I texted my best friend telling her I didn't understand why I couldn't orgasm. He was really upset that I lied to him and told me to be honest. For the next two weeks when we would have sex, I wouldn't fake it and you know what he said to me?

 

"Baby I don't understand why you can't orgasm. What am I doing wrong?" The thing is he wasn't do anything wrong, and overtime I could see that he was getting discouraged and started looking at other women. I started to fake again and wow, how the relationship got better. Men really do base a lot on how much they can please a woman. That's where most of their confidence is.

 

If you read the article, a woman also confessed to her husband that she never orgasmed. They stopped having sex entirely and their marriage fell apart.

 

So I have been honest but that only makes things worse.

 

You are perfectly right.

It wasn't the fact that she lived a lie with him for 20yrs, which when it came up probably made him question what was real and what wasn't in their relationship, weather her good ability to lie might have translated into other things.

It wasn't the crass way in which she told him.

 

It was none of the things above, obviously his male psyche was too fragile to handle such a revelation.

 

The article is written by a dime-a-dozen journalist that peddles common sense answers to a public that will eat anything [feminist one].

It lacks empathy for the men who read it by way of her example.

Some one commented on that article that 4chan has more interesting posts. That user is right.

 

With your example i can see why you would make such a thread.

Unfortunately, i and many others refuse to validate your choice of lying to your BF.

Don't be surprised when he dumps you, after he finds out that you were lying about orgasming all along.

That is off-course if you don't leave him by then, by way of an affair or GIGS.

[Radu]

She didn't say that... She said she did love him... she's just not 'in love' with him. Attachment love... not romantic love.

 

It's so nice how you keep making up what you think the OP says just for you to prove... what exactly?

 

Anyway, the debate is getting old. For the OP's sake, I sincerely hope she gets some kind of assistance... I really hope this idiotic thread hasn't driven her further underground or made her feel more ashamed about it.

 

Once she can understand her sexuality a bit better, I'm sure she will be in a better position to lovingly confront or deal with this issue with her BF.

 

'I love you, but i'm not 'in love' with you.'

 

Why does this sound familiar, it's pretty clear how the OP's relationship will end.

[RedRobin]

For the record, I have not validated lying.

 

I have encouraged her to seek help from a professional or do some reading. She started to open up a bit... and that's when the 'crowd' came back to keep pounding her and keep on their witch hunt.

 

People keep telling her to stop lying... but at this point in her life, and in her understanding of her own sexuality, I get the impression she doesn't even know what she is lying about. All she knows is that doing it seems to make her BF happy.

 

Some others could disagree with me... but I don't view her as evil. She seems confused and scared to me.

 

The fact that so many other women fake seems to indicate a bigger issue here... one that can't all be blamed on women, BTW.

[Dafa]

For the record, I have not validated lying.

 

I have encouraged her to seek help from a professional or do some reading. She started to open up a bit... and that's when the 'crowd' came back to keep pounding her and keep on their witch hunt.

 

People keep telling her to stop lying... but at this point in her life, and in her understanding of her own sexuality, I get the impression she doesn't even know what she is lying about. All she knows is that doing it seems to make her BF happy.

 

Some others could disagree with me... but I don't view her as evil. She seems confused and scared to me.

 

The fact that so many other women fake seems to indicate a bigger issue here... one that can't all be blamed on women, BTW.

 

Yes, this thread would be much more helpful to the OP if people would try to be more understanding. Antagonizing someone will only put them in a defensive position and from thereon it's much harder to have a truly productive discussion.

I am one of the people that started to point out her error, yes. And the main reason i did that is because i believe that, if the relationship does end (for their sake, i hope not), he is the one that is going to suffer the most. Why? Because she has alot more information about the nature and dynamics of their relationship than he does. As far as he is concerned, everything is good...

Also, let's not forget one very very important thing. Initially, she did approach him with this problem and, by her own admission, he was willing to adapt (see initial posts). He tried but apparently there was not much success, leaving her disheartened and she restarted the faking. From his point of view, he solved the problem. At a given point in this thread, this detail was not recognized.

 

The problem with people here is not the faking itself but rather what it entails and the long term consequences... It's a reasonable point of view. Finally, perhaps 20 years ago men's egos were fragile. Nowadays, men are quite prepared to hear their companion correcting. From the talks i have with my male friends, any of us are more than willing to listen and adapt to our partners' wishes. This to say, the "he will not care if i tell him" or "i'm affraid that he stops liking me" arguments are not very valid. At least in my experience.

[zengirl]

I dunno. I'm sure it would get really old telling BF after BF she can't have orgasms.

 

I think it's pretty common not to have orgasms from penetration at least. At any rate, it doesn't sound like the OP has been in Rs with men she's really, truly attracted to, so . . . of course no orgasm! Unless you're both attracted to someone AND trust them, I wouldn't assume the problem was some major issue, but rather the result of her choices in Rs, which are about not being alone. Frankly, that's not a very sexy motivation, so it's no wonder she's not taking much enjoyment from sex. At any rate, orgasms aren't the point.

 

I do know women who are married and have had successful Rs who cannot orgasm from penetration and whose husbands or boyfriends KNOW that. I'm sure I know more than I know about, because it's not something you talk about with everyone.

 

By suggesting it's some horrible thing that needs to be hid, I'm not sure how you're helping. Lying never fixes anything. It just doesn't.

 

Until she does that, I honestly believe that telling him will do more damage than good... I also don't think she needs to be celibate while she figures it out.

 

Nobody suggested she be celibate, but how is lying about an orgasm any more OK than lying about anything else? How is lying about being attracted to someone any more OK than lying about being faithful to them? How is it OK to stay in a R with someone you'd leave IF you met someone you were more passionate about and there was mutual interest there? How is she being fair to her BF?

 

I'm not sure what issue is clouding your judgment on this one, but I didn't think you were one to condone lying and mistreating a partner, RR, and she IS mistreating her partner. I don't think that's about the orgasm at all - nor do I think that she should feel bad for not being able to orgasm. I do think she should feel bad for feigning attraction to someone and stringing him along.

 

It's not about us finding it "easy" or passion or sex at all -- it's about honesty, which often means NOT taking the easy road. Either you value honesty or you don't. Obviously, the OP does not.

 

People keep telling her to stop lying... but at this point in her life, and in her understanding of her own sexuality, I get the impression she doesn't even know what she is lying about. All she knows is that doing it seems to make her BF happy.

 

It's not JUST the faking, as others have said. She's lying to him about deeper and more important stuff - her attraction to him, being in love with him, etc.

 

At any rate, no one called her evil, but a liar is a liar is a liar. She's lying for her own purposes -- to not be alone -- and that's no better than a man who lies to get a woman into bed.

[RedRobin]

Zengirl, I'm not going to re-post what the OP said, or keep re-hashing her personal difficulties that seem to go far beyond the very common situations that most women face.

 

What I will grant posters though, is this...

 

The OP vascillates between having a rather flippant attitude about the whole situation... and expressing care, love, and concern for her BF...

 

For now, I have assumed that her occasionally casual statements regarding her BF are a defense mechanism... I've chosen to focus on what I view is an underlying issue with intimacy and sexuality in general... that she and only she can fix. I strongly advise against making one's partner their 'therapist'.

 

A responsible middle ground might be to tell her BF she is seeking counseling or doing some reading to manage intimacy issues and see where that goes.

 

Should she choose to not address these issues within herself in a constructive way, and 'self-medicate' as it were, through others, then my opinion about her core character would change.

[zengirl]

For now, I have assumed that her occasionally casual statements regarding her BF are a defense mechanism...

 

Most of the most dangerous and harmful behaviors to other people in Rs can be classified as 'defense mechanisms' and I've seen you criticize more than a few of those. It seems hypocrisy to support one person's hurtful defense mechanisms and not another, to me.

 

I do agree one's partner shouldn't be a therapist, but intimacy, love, trust, and relationships in general depend on a decent degree of honesty.

 

If a guy with a sex addiction was sleeping around but was seeking therapeutic help, would you condone HIS lies in the meantime? At any rate, I don't see any evidence she wants to seek help. She wants to continue lying.

[Leopard]

She's not attracted to him at ALL though. It's not just the orgasm. At any rate, I don't see any point in lying about a crucial aspect of intimacy and calling it ANY kind of 'love' frankly.

 

It may be a crucial aspect to you, but it isn't a crucial aspect to me.

 

I have been in relationships where I have been attracted to the man, and that attraction didn't dictate anything in the relationship. It didn't make the relationship any better. That's why to me, it isn't crucial.

 

What is crucial is how they are on the inside. This obviously plays a bigger role if a man i'm not attracted to has managed to give me the best relationship I have ever had.

 

Maybe that's why i'm happier than most people. I don't fixate so much on sex, and don't use "unsatisfying sex" or "not physically attracted" as an excuse to throw someone away. Quite frankly I see it as pretty superficial.

 

Do you think this is fair to him? How would you feel if a guy was with you just because he thought you were the best he could get at that point, but he was always intending to leave you if someone he truly falls in love with comes along?

 

It's nature. If a man is with me until better comes along, then so be it. At least I will get a relationship out of it, and an experience for that matter.

 

You live you learn.

 

I'm not going to stop dating just because bad things can happen.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Leopard

[zengirl]

It may be a crucial aspect to you, but it isn't a crucial aspect to me.

 

No one is saying what has to be crucial to you. Anything you choose to lie about so actively is obviously crucial in some way. Otherwise, you wouldn't need to lie. I suspect you know it's crucial to HIM or else you wouldn't be lying.

 

I have been in relationships where I have been attracted to the man, and that attraction didn't dictate anything in the relationship. It didn't make the relationship any better. That's why to me, it isn't crucial.

 

I don't think anyone has said that YOU need to base your Rs on attraction --- just that faking it isn't fair to your BF.

 

What is crucial is how they are on the inside. This obviously plays a bigger role if a man i'm not attracted to has managed to give me the best relationship I have ever had.

 

I agree that insides matter more than outsides. Agree a lot! In fact, I'd say that I am actually attracted to someone's character and other "inside" traits. It actually gets me going. I just want to make that clear to illustrate it's not necessarily just the outside that people mean when they say attraction. Of course, everyone's attraction matrix is different, and I don't know what yours is.

 

Maybe that's why i'm happier than most people. I don't fixate so much on sex, and don't use "unsatisfying sex" or "not physically attracted" as an excuse to throw someone away. Quite frankly I see it as pretty superficial.

 

That's fair enough, but you are also lying about it. So you DO value it -- you value it enough to know it should be hidden. That's just as superficial.

 

As to the attitude of being happy to date someone 'until someone better comes around' -- I'm not sure how anyone could endorse that, and that's the whole reason attraction matters, really. I don't care what people base their relationships on, but yours is based on nothing because of the lies. People CAN choose to forsake physical attraction or even sex and carry on a R, and I'd not criticize that, tbh. The criticism of your R stems primarily from the total lack of honesty and the poor treatment towards your BF.

[kaylan]

OP...youre entire last reply was very selfish and all about you.

 

Ok, we know what is and isnt crucial to you...but does it matter what is or isnt crucial to your bf? Is he not allowed honesty so he can make real decisions about whats crucial to him in a relationship? Or should he live a lie so long as it appeases you.

 

He could easily cheat on you, or fake his affection and love for you, and simple say "fidelity and emotional honesty arent crucial to me in a relationship...but my girlfriend is happy, so why tell her the truth?"

 

See how selfish and wrong that sounds? Oh wells...i feel sorry for the guy, because I can already see you guys wont last. The relationship is all about what makes you comfortable and not him as well. If it was about you both, then hed have equal knowledge of the facts of your relationship.

[nofool4u]

Really?

 

Yes, really.

 

If a man told me he couldn't orgasm with me, why would I want to be with him?

 

If that is your reason for not wanting to be with a man, then a majority of the men out there would be cheating and dumping women. Most women I have been with can't "cum" with vaginal intercourse alone. Some can, some can't. So I guess what you are saying is, those that can't will be cheated on and dumped, and who could blame the guys, right?

 

Again, if a woman can't cum with me through vaginal intercourse, that is not my criteria for keeping them or not.

 

I can see the conversation now. "You can't come honey, therefore I'm justified in trying to bed down someone who can" What would such a man be called by the ladies? A great guy?

 

I wouldn't feel so hot anymore and would want to be with a man who was actually turned on by me.

 

First off, as a man, I can tell you, if a guy can't come with you, he has some sort of medical issue, or has a bad case of whiskey dick. Has nothing to do with how "hot" you think you are.

 

 

If he loved me and was happy otherwise, and sex didn't matter all that much, I would rather he keep his mouth shut.

 

As opposed to the fact that there will be a lack of semen to tip you off that he didn't cum:rolleyes:

 

Geez, you act like a guy is going to say, "I can't come with you b****h!!" for you to say, "I would rather he keep his mouth shut"

 

 

Not saying I would cheat, but if another man showed extreme interest and was attracted to me, in the right circumstances who is to say that nothing would happen? Especially since we know how much more likely (and easy) men are to get into bed with another woman.

 

Once again, if a man can't come, there is a problem, and it isn't your "hotness". Afterall, old Rosey isn't that hot, and she can make a guy cum.

[nofool4u]

One main point that keeps getting missed is that she has difficulty having an orgasm on her own... much less with a man.

 

Expecting her to tell every man she gets involved with that she can't have orgasms is cruel.

 

So when the guy asks, then what?

[kaylan]

Actually many guys would have trouble cumming with a girl they dont find attractive. Hell, many guys wouldnt be able to keep it up if that was the case.

[nofool4u]

Actually many guys would have trouble cumming with a girl they dont find attractive. Hell, many guys wouldnt be able to keep it up if that was the case.

 

Then I'd say they have a problem. Cuz if I can get it up, I can cum.

 

Now if the guy can't get it up for a woman, then that is a whole other, HUGE, problem. (or not so huge;))

[Els]

 

It's nature. If a man is with me until better comes along, then so be it. At least I will get a relationship out of it, and an experience for that matter.

 

You live you learn.

 

I'm not going to stop dating just because bad things can happen.

 

I was not suggesting that you stop dating - rather, I was trying to phrase your choices and actions in a 'how would you feel if someone did that to you?' manner. It isn't about what 'can' happen, because you are right in that none of us can predict the future - but it is about what the intention already is from the get-go. I don't think any of us would be happy with a partner hooking up with us just because we're the best they can get, with the intention to leave us if the right person comes along. If you would be fine with a guy doing that with you, you would be a rare person.

 

Regardless, it's fine if you're with him just as a void-filler (I personally wouldn't recommend it, but I don't see anything wrong with it), but he needs to know this for the entire thing to be fair to him. Does he know it?

[kaylan]

Then I'd say they have a problem. Cuz if I can get it up, I can cum.

 

Now if the guy can't get it up for a woman, then that is a whole other, HUGE, problem. (or not so huge;))

A problem? What are you talking about?

 

My point was very simple...a guys level of attraction to a particular woman will have a direct impact on his arousal and orgasm while with her. Makes perfect sense. Just because someone is aroused, doesnt automatically mean they will reach orgasm with a person.

[nofool4u]

A problem? What are you talking about?

 

My point was very simple...a guys level of attraction to a particular woman will have a direct impact on his arousal and orgasm while with her. Makes perfect sense. Just because someone is aroused, doesnt automatically mean they will reach orgasm with a person.

 

If there is no attraction to where a guy couldn't cum, then how did he get it up for her in the first place? How does a guy get aroused if what you say is true? Doesn't make sense.

 

If a guy can get it up, he can cum, unless he has whiskey dick.

[Els]

Umm, no. You don't hear of men being unable to orgasm due to mental reasons as often as women do, but it really is possible. Performance anxiety, certain long-term medications, etc, will all impact a man's ability to orgasm.