Men think they know when a woman fakes...but they really don't.

[Cealabeala]

I've never faked an orgasm with a man and can't see myself ever doing so in the future. I think it's immature and pointless to do so.

[jdubinva]

It's not that difficult to tell if a woman has an orgasm and not sure how guys can be fooled. When you feel the involuntary muscle contractions inside, squirming, arching of the back and some moans you know she's had one.

 

Damn, now I need to get laid!

[Leopard]

What will you do in the future when you meet someone with whom you develop romantic, passionate, crazy love for, and you are (hypothetically) married to your current bf?

 

He knows I don't want to get married. And I won't marry him for this exact reason (he isn't that person).

[RedRobin]

I do. I won't veer to much into that topic, but I wouldn't compare that to the OP's case. People who agree to and have arranged marriages for cultural reasons because it aligns with their values and goals are different than people who 'settle' for the best they can get, when unhappy with it, and sustain an essentially fake relationship where their dissatisfaction is unknown.

 

I would.

 

People in cultures where marriages are arranged have a different concept of 'love'. While they recognize 'romantic love'... they value 'attachment love' more.

 

One doesn't need to be born into that culture to value attachment love over romantic love.

 

In the OP's case... my impression is that she is 'settling' for attachment love. Lots of people have fantasies about romantic love... good luck with that. Good luck when your marriage faces the inevitable... "I love him/her but I'm not *in* love with him/her" challenge. If you believe in the romantic ideal, my guess is that is when you or your H will be heading to divorce court instead of 'settling' for attachment love. Rinse-repeat...

 

She says she's not attracted to him physically. Big deal. Regarding the sexual component of their relationship, she has not expressed dissatisfaction. She claims to have difficulty reaching orgasm with anyone, even herself. Do I think she is too young to give up on herself that way? Sure. I recommended that she seek a sex therapist.

 

Breaking up with her BF in the off chance that Mr. Wonderful is going to solve her sexual issues is retarded and naive. It's not his job to solve anyway. Its hers.

 

I realize that lots of people believe in 'radical honesty'... but she tried to be honest with him and he rejected it. His choice.

Edited July 4, 2012 by RedRobin

[Leopard]

I agree with the above.

 

Romantic love is nice, but those passionate relationships fizz out as fast as they ignite. And like you said RR, "rinse-repeat".

 

I also think that attachment love is much more stable than romantic love. You respect the person, love them in another way. When you love so passionately, like almost everyone who has been in love says, you can hate them all the same. This strong strong emotion can go from love to hate. Attachment love style relationships don't do this. Instead of a clouded mind you can think clearly and make rational decisions. So instead of being impulsive and so drained emotionally from the relationship, you can think clearly.

 

That's why I think attachment relationships are smarter and last longer. You choose your partner not based on your hormones or raging pheromones, but you judge them as a person altogether and see how well they are a match for you. That's why my relationship now has been the longest up to date, longer than my passionate relationships where I deeply loved the men.

 

I actually find it harder to let go of this one than my ex who I loved very deeply. This guy treats me incredibly and is such an amazing person, I can't let him go. I loved my ex but he was a douche, and love isn't enough. I still left him.

[g450]

Communication is key. Also, I don't need to orgasm every time. I'm fine with a quickie, or even a longer session where I don't orgasm. This is for reasons listed in the article (I'm tired, not in the mood, etc). I'm usually willing to accommodate him getting off though. It's important to relay this, as I suspect some men wouldn't feel they've 'done their job'. If they feel that way, they need to check their ego and remember sex is about sharing that level of connection and pleasuring each other. If I wasn't pleased, you wouldn't be touching me, trust me!

 

You hit the nail on the head. Communication is key.

 

Does my Wife always come? No. And neither do I always come. But the sex is still good either way. If I ask she will tell me if she did or not. I am the kind of guy that wants to make sure I make my wife happy and she feels the same way about me. With that said, at our age we understand that the big O is not always in the cards and that's OK. I have no problem with her adding toys to our play to assist. I would do anything and everything she wanted to get her there as she would do for me. It's all good. She feels guilty if I dont cum and vise versa. That's because we care about each other. Imagine that.

 

What disturbs me about this thread is what some of you seem to be missing completely. Faking is lying. You are lying to the person you are closest too about an act that is the most intimate in nature. Do you NOT see a problem with that? Seriously? And this is how you treat a person you claim has a heart of gold and is amazing etc yadayadayada?!?

I would hate to see how you treat people you dont like / love.

 

If you think that you not having an O is bad for your mans self esteem then how the hell do you think he will feel if he figures out you were faking it all along? The longer you tell a lie the bigger it will be to hide and the more damage it will do when it is found.

 

Something that is not that big of a deal to you MAY be a big deal to your man. So a person that lies to their man to hold on to him is incredibly selfish and disrespectful IMO. And the notion that you think some men like to be lied too is absolutely stupid. Who likes to be lied too?

 

If I thought my wife faked it we would have a real issue on our plates and our marriage would be in trouble. Not because she faked but because she lied to me about it.

 

The only way faking would be ok with me is if she made it clear she was faking for my own benefit. We roll play sometimes and I have no problem with it as long as she knows I know.

 

If your going to lie about the sex, what else are you going to lie about? Some of you are living a lie of a relationship I think and I feel bad for your husbands / boyfriends etc.

[xxoo]

Romantic love is nice, but those passionate relationships fizz out as fast as they ignite. And like you said RR, "rinse-repeat".

 

I also think that attachment love is much more stable than romantic love. You respect the person, love them in another way. When you love so passionately, like almost everyone who has been in love says, you can hate them all the same. This strong strong emotion can go from love to hate. Attachment love style relationships don't do this. Instead of a clouded mind you can think clearly and make rational decisions. So instead of being impulsive and so drained emotionally from the relationship, you can think clearly.

 

That's why I think attachment relationships are smarter and last longer. You choose your partner not based on your hormones or raging pheromones, but you judge them as a person altogether and see how well they are a match for you. That's why my relationship now has been the longest up to date, longer than my passionate relationships where I deeply loved the men.

 

Do you believe that a relationship can have both attachment love and romantic love?

 

For me, both are necessary for a satisfying marriage.

 

Does your partner have romantic love for you? Is he looking for romantic love in a relationship? Are you faking romantic love for him?

 

Regarding romantic love, it doesn't have to be the way you describe above. Romantic love can be healthy and lasting. It doesn't have to be highs and lows. It can be strong and steady, for decades. Not fireworks for decades, but slow burn with heat that lasts.

Edited July 5, 2012 by xxoo

[Els]

He knows I don't want to get married. And I won't marry him for this exact reason (he isn't that person).

 

Why are you with him, then? Because you don't want to be alone while waiting for the right person? But what if you're still WITH him when you meet that person?

[Els]

Do you believe that a relationship can have both attachment love and romantic love?

 

For me, both are necessary for a satisfying marriage.

 

Does your partner have romantic love for you? Is he looking for romantic love in a relationship? Are you faking romantic love for him?

 

Regarding romantic love, it doesn't have to be the way you describe above. Romantic love can be healthy and lasting. It doesn't have to be highs and lows. It can be strong and steady, for decades. Not fireworks for decades, but slow burn with heat that lasts.

 

Precisely. Nowhere am I advocating jumping into a R with the first guy you see whom you get those warm fuzzy feelings for, but equally so, jumping into a R with the first guy you know who meets a theoretical list of pragmatically 'good' traits is fairly pointless. The two are not mutually exclusive, and I absolutely believe that everyone owes it to themselves (and to their partner) to at least hold out for a person whom they are romantically interested in who is also a good partner and decent man. It may be rare, depending on various factors, but it's well worth waiting for. I'm with someone with whom I have both types of love for. I know several people who also are. Sure, there's no guarantee that any of that will give you happiness 'forever', since anything could happen, but being with someone without either of the above is a guarantee that it will NOT.

[Els]

Good luck when your marriage faces the inevitable... "I love him/her but I'm not *in* love with him/her" challenge. If you believe in the romantic ideal, my guess is that is when you or your H will be heading to divorce court instead of 'settling' for attachment love. Rinse-repeat...

 

I think this was a completely unnecessary and unprovoked personal jab at zengirl.

[zengirl]

But I do love him. I'm just not in love with him.

 

This is a phrase that has never made any sense to me. Either you love someone or you don't. Granted, I totally believe you can love someone and not want to stick out a R. But I've never believed that "in love" was some "passionate romance" per se. Love is love.

 

At any rate, you're lying to him, which isn't something I'd ever suggest was loving. And love is a verb - it's based on what you do.

 

But i'm not unhappy. This has been my longest and happiest relationship up to date (for many reasons).

 

I don't understand why everyone thinks you need to have a great sex life to be happy. Not everyone thinks like that. Some people prefer other qualities that make them more happy than great sex.

 

You are saying things about him that implies you don't view him very well (and things you'd never say to his face), and you are lying to him. Neither of those things are the basis for intimacy, love, or happiness, IMO.

 

Really?

 

If a man told me he couldn't orgasm with me, why would I want to be with him? I wouldn't feel so hot anymore and would want to be with a man who was actually turned on by me.

 

If that's the case, it's especially atrocious that you'd lie to your BF and not let him have the chance to choose for himself whether he'd want to be with someone who couldn't orgasm with him.

 

They KNOW it isn't for 'love'. In the OP's case, her bf doesn't. I don't know how to explain the difference to you and the OP in a clearer manner.

 

This is the crux of the issue in here. No one here has spoken out against arranged marriages --- I do think FORCED (including economic coercion) arranged marriages are bad, myself, where the people are given no options, but other kinds, where both parties have the means to choose for themselves or live independently but choose an arranged marriage (very rare, but happens), I think are fine. The OP's situation is VERY different from that.

 

People in cultures where marriages are arranged have a different concept of 'love'. While they recognize 'romantic love'... they value 'attachment love' more.

 

One doesn't need to be born into that culture to value attachment love over romantic love.

 

No, but one needs to make a conscious choice not only to value it but to be HONEST about it, I'd say.

 

In the OP's case... my impression is that she is 'settling' for attachment love. Lots of people have fantasies about romantic love... good luck with that. Good luck when your marriage faces the inevitable... "I love him/her but I'm not *in* love with him/her" challenge. If you believe in the romantic ideal, my guess is that is when you or your H will be heading to divorce court instead of 'settling' for attachment love. Rinse-repeat...

 

Like xxoo (whose marriage is long and lasting, and I know many people in marriages like hers), I think that both romantic love and attachment love can coexist and do, in the best of marriages, the ones that survive. Neither kind of love "just happens" in my book either, but both are nurtured.

 

I don't think believing in romantic love and the importance of it = believing in some romantic ideal. Romantic love can be very real and simple, and it can be had, warts and all. That's the kind of romantic love I value and have always sought, and attachment love is a huge part of it --- just not attachment because I can't be alone.

 

I don't think it's 'radical honesty' to speak honestly of things like attraction and sex with your mate. I believe it's the very basis of intimacy and trust. I'm not suggesting she pick apart her partner, at all. I am suggesting that lying to get someone --- because you're afraid of being alone --- is terribly sad to me, and it's just plain wrong for her to do to her partner. If it were mutual between them, it would still be sad to me (not because of the sex issue, but because of the fear of being alone issue and the OP clearly has THAT fear from her own words --- anything done out of fear is not worth doing, IMO), but not because she can't orgasm. That's really not the issue.

[typicalcaliguy]

I read an article today and it was really interesting.

 

Why Women Fake Orgasms and How to Tell - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

 

I know a lot of men won't admit to the fact that they have been with women who seldom actually had orgasms, because they think all the women they have been with actually came most of the time, but I want them to read this article. I was so relieved when I read this because it means i'm not the only one who does these things. That a lot of women also do them.

 

Ladies, what is your take on this article? Do you do these things too?

 

And if you have had orgasms before from a man, what does it feel like?

 

Who cares if she fakes as long as I get off

[Quiet Storm]

After 21 years with my husband, I think that both attachment love and passionate love are necessary.

 

We are very much attached. Our lives and history very much intertwined. We are comfortable & cozy. We get each other. We know each others strengths & weaknesses, likes & dislikes, quirks and routines.

 

We are also very sexual. We flirt, we tease, we play, we send each other dirty texts, we kiss...

 

Commitment and attachment prompts us to do things together like paying bills, attending family functions, taking care of the kids, giving gifts, helping each other, being courteous, having a companion, sharing common interests like TV, movies or sports.

 

All that is great and I'm glad we have it.

 

But sex is really the glue that holds us together. Sad or down? Sex makes us smile. Stressed? Sex helps us relax. Bored? Sex makes life interesting. Annoyed? Sex puts it in perspective. Crazy busy? We stop & connect, with sex.

 

Since men are very action oriented, they often express their love by doing nice things for you. This could be carrying in the groceries, warming up your car, fixing things, etc. However, one of the most important ways is through sex, by pleasing you and satisfying you.

 

You seem to know this, since this is why you fake it.

 

What you are not getting is that by lying to him, you are negating any intimacy that you share. You own an important piece of the puzzle that he doesn't know is missing.

 

This may not be a problem for you, as you are not interested in living an authentic life. However, it may be a problem for him. He deserves a real sexual connection with someone, and you are robbing him of that.

 

You have stated repeatedly that you don't need sexual connection. You would rather fake than face conflict. I get that.

 

What I don't get is your lack of guilt about taking his choices away. Why do you feel no remorse for orchestrating this farce?

 

Life is precious. He could die in a car accident tomorrow. And yet here you are pretending to be attracted to him, using up the passing moments that he could be sharing with someone genuine.

 

He seems to have many good qualities that you are personally lacking. Having a good, strong character comes from within. Surrounding yourself with good people, will not make you a good person. Good people are not put on this earth to be used by the consiousless. You can appreciate his goodness without selfishly keeping it for yourself.

 

Your behavior is parasitic.

[RedRobin]

I think this was a completely unnecessary and unprovoked personal jab at zengirl.

 

It was not a jab.

 

It was sincere. I meant it when I said 'good luck'...

 

Lots of people like to think they know what they'll do when they hit that wall... until they actually hit it.

 

Edited: I come from a VERY long-line of married people. Some for close to 60 years now. Just about all of them went through a period where they fell out of 'love' with their spouses. For a variety of reasons. Even my own parents separated for two years when I was in my early 20's...

 

They chose not to divorce. They focused on all the things they shared together. It was their 'attachment love' that kept them together long enough to find the 'romantic' love again. Not the other way around. Commitment does funny things to people.

 

It is my observation that people who fixate on the 'romantic' love, are the ones who are most disappointed when that part goes away. And the ones probably the MOST likely to cheat... not the other way around. Because for them, it was always about their feelings...

 

Anyway... I think this thread stopped being about faking orgasms many pages ago...

Edited July 5, 2012 by RedRobin

[Leopard]

Why are you with him, then? Because you don't want to be alone while waiting for the right person? But what if you're still WITH him when you meet that person?

 

I'll leave him

 

No but seriously, I don't think anyone better than him will come along. I genuinely feel this way, because that is how incredible he is.

 

What I don't get is your lack of guilt about taking his choices away. Why do you feel no remorse for orchestrating this farce?

 

I don't feel guilty because he HAS a sexual connection, he loves the sex, he loves making love to me and he is the happiest person in the world. The fact that I am faking obviously doesn't take away from the "connection" that he feels with me sexually. So I don't feel guilty because it isn't negatively affecting him in any way. He knows that for me sex isn't the most important thing anyway.

 

The one time he knew that I faked, it affected him deeply. To me faking and sex isn't a big deal, so if it's not a big deal to me why should I burden him with it?

 

WIf they think you are happy and satisfied even if you are not, if you don't NEED to be satisfied in a certain area to be happy with them, then why tell them you aren't satisfied? It's like telling your friend she is fat when you don't even giva**** what she looks like. Why mention it then?

 

I still don't understand how people don't get it. It is redundant to tell him if I don't even care about it myself.

 

So you're saying I should tell him I fake even though it would do absolutely nothing except make him feel worse about himself? Yeah, great advice.

 

People are talking to me like they think they know my relationship. As if it needs "fixing" because apparently faking orgasms is the worst thing in the world. No relationship is perfect, and in my case, the lack of orgasms is the part I am compromising on.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Leopard

[Leopard]

^ To add

 

Even if the connection he feels isn't "real", who cares? As long as he is happy I am willing to sacrifice some good sex.

[Titanwolf]

After 21 years with my husband, I think that both attachment love and passionate love are necessary.

 

We are very much attached. Our lives and history very much intertwined. We are comfortable & cozy. We get each other. We know each others strengths & weaknesses, likes & dislikes, quirks and routines.

 

We are also very sexual. We flirt, we tease, we play, we send each other dirty texts, we kiss...

 

Commitment and attachment prompts us to do things together like paying bills, attending family functions, taking care of the kids, giving gifts, helping each other, being courteous, having a companion, sharing common interests like TV, movies or sports.

 

All that is great and I'm glad we have it.

 

But sex is really the glue that holds us together. Sad or down? Sex makes us smile. Stressed? Sex helps us relax. Bored? Sex makes life interesting. Annoyed? Sex puts it in perspective. Crazy busy? We stop & connect, with sex.

 

Since men are very action oriented, they often express their love by doing nice things for you. This could be carrying in the groceries, warming up your car, fixing things, etc. However, one of the most important ways is through sex, by pleasing you and satisfying you.

 

I feel like the sun just came up after a year of darkness. Thank you for restoring my faith (though small) in good old-fashioned relationships, honestly.

[Quiet Storm]

The one time he knew that I faked, it affected him deeply. To me faking and sex isn't a big deal, so if it's not a big deal to me why should I burden him with it?

 

You keep saying "to me", but you are forgetting about what it would mean to him. The one time he knew you faked, it affected him deeply. You continually do something that you know negatively affects him. You do this to someone that you claim to love. We all know that it's not a big deal to you, but it is a big deal to him.

 

WIf they think you are happy and satisfied even if you are not, if you don't NEED to be satisfied in a certain area to be happy with them, then why tell them you aren't satisfied? It's like telling your friend she is fat when you don't even giva**** what she looks like. Why mention it then?

 

A big part of his satisfaction within your relationship is his ability to please you sexually. That component of a relationship is much bigger than a lie about looks to avoid hurting feelings. His sex life is a fraud.

 

I still don't understand how people don't get it. It is redundant to tell him if I don't even care about it myself.

 

Why is it redundant because you don't care? Why don't his feelings matter? I understand your point of view. But this is a relationship. With two people. Two points of view. Two people that have different priorities about what is important in a relationship. You are continuing to do something that you know he would have a huge problem with. You are withholding important information from him- information that doesn't matter to you but would very much matter to him.

 

So you're saying I should tell him I fake even though it would do absolutely nothing except make him feel worse about himself? Yeah, great advice.

 

I think he deserves to know the truth about his relationship, whether it hurts or not.

 

It's not fair to manipulate people's lives because you think they can't handle the truth.

 

 

People are talking to me like they think they know my relationship. As if it needs "fixing" because apparently faking orgasms is the worst thing in the world. No relationship is perfect, and in my case, the lack of orgasms is the part I am compromising on.

 

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

 

I understand you are compromising on orgasms and that is a sacrifice you are willing to make. A huge part of your relationship is based on dishonesty. You are okay with that. But it wouldn't be okay with him would it? You are filtering his life. You are altering his reality. That's not cool.

 

I think it's fraudulent at worse and material misrepresentation, at best. It's no different than a guy using a woman as "beard". I think its a really cruddy thing to do to someone.

[xxoo]

Edited: I come from a VERY long-line of married people. Some for close to 60 years now. Just about all of them went through a period where they fell out of 'love' with their spouses. For a variety of reasons. Even my own parents separated for two years when I was in my early 20's...

 

They chose not to divorce. They focused on all the things they shared together. It was their 'attachment love' that kept them together long enough to find the 'romantic' love again. Not the other way around. Commitment does funny things to people.

 

It is my observation that people who fixate on the 'romantic' love, are the ones who are most disappointed when that part goes away. And the ones probably the MOST likely to cheat... not the other way around. Because for them, it was always about their feelings...

 

Feeling it is important isn't the same as fixating on it. It can't "come back" if it never was....and that is my main concern.

 

I would be equally concerned if the importance of attachment love was being minimized.

[RedRobin]

One main point that keeps getting missed is that she has difficulty having an orgasm on her own... much less with a man.

 

Expecting her to tell every man she gets involved with that she can't have orgasms is cruel.

 

I also don't see how repeatedly calling her names is going to encourage her to seek assistance or do anything except put up more walls... which, I think folks would agree... is part of the issue right?

 

I think you all should back off unless you are a licensed sex therapist or know of one.

[RedRobin]

Feeling it is important isn't the same as fixating on it. It can't "come back" if it never was....and that is my main concern.

 

I would be equally concerned if the importance of attachment love was being minimized.

 

Lots of people don't think romantic love is important... this is why I brought up arranged marriages.

 

Some would argue that romantic love it isn't even 'love'... but if you think it is necessary, great. Not everyone shares that opinion.

[kaylan]

One main point that keeps getting missed is that she has difficulty having an orgasm on her own... much less with a man.

 

Expecting her to tell every man she gets involved with that she can't have orgasms is cruel.

 

I also don't see how repeatedly calling her names is going to encourage her to seek assistance or do anything except put up more walls... which, I think folks would agree... is part of the issue right?

 

I think you all should back off unless you are a licensed sex therapist or know of one.

How many times do we all have to keep telling you. This isnt just about orgasms! And even though she may have difficulty having them, shed have a way better chance of having them with men she found attractive. And attraction is the real issue here, not orgasm.

 

If she cums or not, doesnt change the fact that she doesnt enjoy sex with her man. Nor does he turn her on. Nor does she find him attractive in any way physically.

 

Why force him to live a lie? I think hed want a girl who truly had the hots for him.

 

If you have no problem with OPs lie, than I guess its ok for me to date a hot girl, have amazing sex, but settle on knowing I dont love her even though shes madly in love with me. Id expect you to support my decision because Im fine sacrificing my emotional happiness and fake my love for her if it meant making her happy. Nevermind the fact that shed be living a lie.

 

See how silly that sounds? Faking any kind of connection in a relationship is wrong and is robbing the other person of free will to make their own decisions based on facts.

Edited July 6, 2012 by kaylan

[zengirl]

One main point that keeps getting missed is that she has difficulty having an orgasm on her own... much less with a man.

 

Expecting her to tell every man she gets involved with that she can't have orgasms is cruel.

 

She's not attracted to him at ALL though. It's not just the orgasm. At any rate, I don't see any point in lying about a crucial aspect of intimacy and calling it ANY kind of 'love' frankly.

[xxoo]

Lots of people don't think romantic love is important... this is why I brought up arranged marriages.

 

Some would argue that romantic love it isn't even 'love'... but if you think it is necessary, great. Not everyone shares that opinion.

 

We know the opinion of each person on this thread, including the OP. One opinion we do not know is that of the op's bf.

 

It sounds like romantic love, and sexually attraction, is important to the op's bf--hence the faking.

 

Another concern: faking gets old. How long could a person reasonably keep up the performance, without growing resentful? How happy will the man be when the faked sexual enjoyment is no longer convincing? It just doesn't sounds sustainably satisfying to me, esp if the man believes he chose a woman who enjoys sex with him. Men in cultures with arranged marriage may have very different expectations for the long term.

Edited July 6, 2012 by xxoo

[mario_C]

ahem...

One main point that keeps getting missed is that she has difficulty having an orgasm on her own... much less with a man.

 

Expecting her to tell every man she gets involved with that she can't have orgasms is cruel.

 

I also don't see how repeatedly calling her names is going to encourage her to seek assistance or do anything except put up more walls... which, I think folks would agree... is part of the issue right?

 

I think you all should back off unless you are a licensed sex therapist or know of one.

We're talking about two different things. If she is able to pleasure herself but still cannot orgasm then that is one thing - then a therapist is needed. I've talked to women in relationships who are adamantly not interested in sex, and that's an issue.

But the issue is women who are in relationships and are capable of pleasure and orgasm on their own. They are basically lying to their partner - you are deceiving your partner when you fake an orgasm. Cheating is being deceitful, humiliating your partner by talking trash behind her or his back is deceitful. But this deceit is OK.