What is an "Open Relationship"?

[irc333]

I was wondering what does an "Open relationship" mean? Does it mean giving each other permission to see other people, BUT actually still consider themselves a bonafide couple?

[TaraMaiden]

yes.

 

But it rarely works for long....

[Dire Wolf]

I was wondering what does an "Open relationship" mean? Does it mean giving each other permission to see other people, BUT actually still consider themselves a bonafide couple?

 

Replace the word "see" with "sleep with" and that's my understanding of it.

[verhrzn]

I know 2 or 3 poly couples personally, and yep, that's pretty much it.

 

They consider each other the "primaries," and then have "secondary" partners to fulfill other needs.

 

An open relationship can really run the gammite though. Some mean "open" only in the sense that they will have 3-somes. Some are allowed to have sex with other people but no emotional attachments. Some have multiple-partner tiers. Some have a kind of 3-way relationship, in which all of the parties are in a relationship with each other (pretty common in situations of a straight male-bi female-bi female.)

[RedRobin]

Honest multi-daters....

[Sanman]

I know 2 or 3 poly couples personally, and yep, that's pretty much it.

 

They consider each other the "primaries," and then have "secondary" partners to fulfill other needs.

 

An open relationship can really run the gammite though. Some mean "open" only in the sense that they will have 3-somes. Some are allowed to have sex with other people but no emotional attachments. Some have multiple-partner tiers. Some have a kind of 3-way relationship, in which all of the parties are in a relationship with each other (pretty common in situations of a straight male-bi female-bi female.)

 

It depends, there are different structures and not everyone will label someone as primary. I was in one and we were both allowed to see other women, but I was the only man she was going to see. A huge mess really and it did not last that long. I had the same problem as her last two relationships.

[Mallow]

In an open relationship there is always permission provided to seek out intimacy with other individuals. You are free to seek out physical with others, but are still comitted to your partner.

 

Depending on the type of open relationship, many allow physical intimacy with others but reject to forming emotional connections with others outside of the relationship.

[verhrzn]

It depends, there are different structures and not everyone will label someone as primary. I was in one and we were both allowed to see other women, but I was the only man she was going to see. A huge mess really and it did not last that long. I had the same problem as her last two relationships.

 

In that case, I'd still probably say you two were each other primaries, though I can see why you'd toss that label.

 

I try not to be judgmental of poly relationships cause, hey, it does work for some people, but geez does it sound complicated and messy. I've also run into quite a few in which one partner was blatantly manipulative of the other.

 

At the risk of fellow-woman-slamming, I've seen quite a few poly relationships where the guy is too passive/desperate to stand up for himself, and the girl is the only one allowed to be poly. She is, in all the cases of this arrangement, just a giant attention-seeker and Class A manipulator. Very sad.

[zengirl]

I was wondering what does an "Open relationship" mean? Does it mean giving each other permission to see other people, BUT actually still consider themselves a bonafide couple?

 

Pretty much. There can be ALL kinds of rules, as people have shared, or no rules, or whatever.

[John Bigboote]

yes.

 

But it rarely works for long....

 

As opposed to strictly monogamous closed relationships which work out a whopping 5% of the time at best? Why the need to editorialize?

[Sanman]

As opposed to strictly monogamous closed relationships which work out a whopping 5% of the time at best? Why the need to editorialize?

 

 

That's a random number. Source?

[John Bigboote]

Estimation. I think it's a pretty conservative estimate to say that your average person in our culture dates 5 people before marrying. So in other words, each marriage represents 10 closed relationships that didn't last, and half of all marriages themselves fail. Hence, 5% at best.

[Sanman]

In that case, I'd still probably say you two were each other primaries, though I can see why you'd toss that label.

 

I try not to be judgmental of poly relationships cause, hey, it does work for some people, but geez does it sound complicated and messy. I've also run into quite a few in which one partner was blatantly manipulative of the other.

 

At the risk of fellow-woman-slamming, I've seen quite a few poly relationships where the guy is too passive/desperate to stand up for himself, and the girl is the only one allowed to be poly. She is, in all the cases of this arrangement, just a giant attention-seeker and Class A manipulator. Very sad.

 

I have no problem with what other people want to do in their relationships, but it was too complicated for me personally. We had an honesty rule, so you try explaining to random girl at the bar that you are in an open relationship. Most women assume you are a sleazeball. Add to that that, I really did not want another women. I liked the one I was with...hence the reason I was with her. However, even being the 'primary' we are busy people. We only got to see each other 1-2 times a week. What happens when one of us has to choose who to see on the saturday night... jealousy creeps in. In the end, neither of us ended up seeing anyone else before we broke up.

 

The problem always was that she was an amazing person, so men fell for her and then agreed to an open relationship. However, none of us really wanted such a relationship, only she did.

[verhrzn]

I have no problem with what other people want to do in their relationships, but it was too complicated for me personally. We had an honesty rule, so you try explaining to random girl at the bar that you are in an open relationship. Most women assume you are a sleazeball. Add to that that, I really did not want another women. I liked the one I was with...hence the reason I was with her. However, even being the 'primary' we are busy people. We only got to see each other 1-2 times a week. What happens when one of us has to choose who to see on the saturday night... jealousy creeps in. In the end, neither of us ended up seeing anyone else before we broke up.

 

The problem always was that she was an amazing person, so men fell for her and then agreed to an open relationship. However, none of us really wanted such a relationship, only she did.

 

*Nods* That's what I've seen with in the situations I mentioned. The girl wants the open relationship (cause attention-seeker, loves to control people, etc.) and the guys just go along with it. I won't mince words: in these arrangements, the primary guy is just furniture. He is furniture the girl is using for security conned into being poly because he's afraid of losing the woman he's been with for years, and the new guy is some pathetic, desperate guy who has convinced himself he's okay with the arrangement, because he can't get anything else.

 

Again, that is not to say that there can't be healthy poly relationships. There can be-I've seen em. But they are very, very difficult to maintain, because they multiple and magnify all of the problems you find in a regular relationship.

 

In a good, healthy poly, you see both partners getting play, and you see lots and lots of communication, engagement with the thirds, and vetting.

 

For example, all of the healthy polys I've seen, will only be with other people who have a history of poly. In rare circumstances, they might consider a usually-monogamous person who wants to try out a wilder lifestyle, but they take it very, very slowly. Those are the kind of poly people I respect, and who I genuinely believe are just cut from a different cloth.

 

Your situation sounds more similar to either an immature poly, or the Manipulative archetype I referenced... a girl who greedily wants to have her cake and eat it too. (I'm only supposing, given the limited information in your post.)

 

I admit, those kinda girls really get under my skin. I run into more than a few of them in my world. There's the jealousy angle of course (they get two guys and I get none!), but also seeing the guys in those situations be SO spineless, and SO controlled. And so.... desperate that they'd just shrug their shoulders and put up with it, even though deep down it isn't really what they want! UGH.

[Sanman]

It was a little immaturity and a little greed IMO. In the end, I realized that we were great at dating, but terrible in a relationship. In other words, we had a lot of fun together (some of my best times were with her) but want different things. After 6 months of dating, I sat her down and talked to her about the fact that I wanted a relationship and if this was really going to work, I wanted ground rules. She could not deal with that and wanted to just 'see how things go' and kind of roll with it. In the end, we went our separate ways. I remained friends with her for a few months afterwards and she supposedly started going to therapy right after we broke up to figure out what she wanted. Anyway, c'est la vie. I am in a happy relationship now.

[Jane2011]

I try not to be judgmental of poly relationships cause, hey, it does work for some people, but geez does it sound complicated and messy. I've also run into quite a few in which one partner was blatantly manipulative of the other.

 

Aha! My favorite subject. To the OP, an "open relationship" is the crazy-ass thing I inadvertently got myself involved with toward the end of last year and in March/April of this year in a rekindle attempt. I don't have anything against it in theory; I'm even *for* it in theory (and I, like verhzn mentioned above, don't judge poly people at all). But I think the experience of it is very, very dramatic and emotionally difficult. There are some couples that make it work easily and without a problem, but I think that's like a 5-10% minority, whereas the rest just torture themselves and other people with the emotional drama caused.

 

When I dated a guy who had a girlfriend already (they were the poly couple), I think him liking me as much as he did hurt her a lot. And this was the case even though *she* was the one who wanted an open relationship. It can be humbling to see that whatever excitement, passion, and even lust you bring to your partner, another woman can do the very same thing.

 

It hurt her a lot, I think.

 

I occasionally lurk on a polyamory message board, and I see how much drama they have. And most poly people would say "Well, monogamous couples have drama too." And I don't deny that. All couples have problems and drama. It's a question of degree. I think whatever degree of jealousy issues, problems, etc. monogamous couples have, polyamorous couples have it times three, four or even five. It doesn't make what they're doing "wrong" or "bad." It just makes what they're doing difficult, and maybe unappealing on the grounds that it takes a huge emotional toll on you.

 

That said, perhaps when it works (in the rare cases it does), it's more rewarding than other types of relationships.

 

I don't think I'd voluntarily get involved with anything like that again. I would react favorably to the guy I *was* with, but only 'cause he already happened. I wouldn't invite a new situation.

 

At the risk of fellow-woman-slamming, I've seen quite a few poly relationships where the guy is too passive/desperate to stand up for himself, and the girl is the only one allowed to be poly. She is, in all the cases of this arrangement, just a giant attention-seeker and Class A manipulator. Very sad.

 

I agree. I think the guy I was with is in a situation like this. He's allowed to date other women, just not the ones he actually likes a lot. And he's too chicken sh*t to stand up for what he wants. (Maybe I flatter myself that he wanted me all that much, but I'd say...he certainly acted like he did. He showed a lot of passion and attraction.) But Mama Bear won't let him date me because...of what? I don't know. Basically he's not allowed to date a woman he actually likes.

 

Fools, I tell you.

[Jane2011]

Oh, just want to add that it usually is the women who can't deal with polyamorous situations.

 

One of my students recently wrote about polyamory in a paper I assigned. He very bluntly wrote that he had nothing against polyamory but that "women are just way too jealous for it to work."

 

Makes some sense, I guess. Women are way too jealous even when there's nothing to be jealous of. Just imagine how jealous they are when there is reason to be jealous.

 

Ah, polyamory. You've made the past six months of my life so weird. But it's over now.

[Jane2011]

As opposed to strictly monogamous closed relationships which work out a whopping 5% of the time at best? Why the need to editorialize?

 

It's not that monogamous relationships don't have difficulties working out themselves. They most certainly do. It's that they're generally less painful and difficult when they are happening. Like I said above, it's a question of degree of difficulty.

 

For instance, in the situation I was in, I only saw the guy for two months. (and a week and a half of that was communicating on OkCupid; still, that was part of us courting). Had he been single, he and I might have been together for six months or a year, or even longer. We still might have broken up at some point, and we might have had some jealousy issues (maybe he'd have a pretty female friend who I was nervous about) or just other clashes in general while we were together, but we could have lasted longer than the two months we did last. There was more drama in that two months of a poly situation than there might have been in a whole year of a monogamous situation.

 

So I think what you're saying is...as long as a monogamous relationship has any difficulty at all or ends at any point at all, it's no better than a poly situation. But I beg to differ. I think most people would rather have a year of a relatively pleasant situation with some clashes here and there than two months of acute feelings of jealousy and insecurity.

 

As far as mono relationships having problems, they do. Sometimes it's about cheating. But OFTEN, it's not about cheating, or another woman or another man, or outside attractions at all. Often they're about different values or money problems or whatever. As unpleasant as any fighting at all is, I think most people would rather fight with their spouse about money issues or who's not helping enough around the house enough than about him or her having sex with and deep emotions for a third party. The former is frustrating, the latter f*cks with you on intense emotional level. Likewise, many women would prefer to have a boyfriend who doesn't call or text as much as she likes (i.e. problems in a mono relationship), but who she knows is hers, than have to deal with one who is sleeping with and emotionally attached to another woman besides her.

 

Now, I do think there is a rampant problem with a 7 year itch thing. I do think attraction to others (eventually) is an issue for monogamous relationships. That's where I think polyamory can make a lot of sense. But it comes with a lot of difficulty, so when you do it, you have to be prepared to do it in the most ethical and communicative way possible, and to manage your jealousy like an adult.

 

I don't think all people experience the 7 year itch enough to have to do something about it. And for those that do seem to exhaust the sexual excitement in their relationship and even the 'general' passion, maybe polyamory isn't the only option; maybe the couple could consider going their separate ways also, but staying close friends with each other so as not to lose the bond in general. I mean, if you lose sexual attraction to a person, or become so bored with the sex that you want to see others, then you and your original partner essentially ARE just friends at that point anyway (if we can agree that sex/physical intimacy is a big part of what constitutes a romantic relationship). Having emotional love for each other is significant, but there's no reason why you can't transition to a deep friendship instead of continuing a romantic claim on each other.

 

Perhaps there are some couples who still love the sex with each other and still feel really in love but STILL want to see others. Then I guess polyamory is their route. If so, as I said, just have to be very mature about it. People struggle with getting to "evolved polyamory," but they need to keep in mind that while there are some things in life that can be done in a certain 'limbo' way or 'gray area' way with no negative consequences on anybody, poly relationships done half-assed or without 100% maturity pretty quickly causes a wicked amount of pain for the third parties and often the couple themselves.

 

I think that's where poly gets a lot of criticism. It takes more intense emotional work than monogamous relationships, and few couples can make the transition quickly enough that they don't create intense emotional turmoil for themselves and others (and, to be fair, sometimes the third party creates pain as well) before they all finally do 'evolve.' I don't think anyone on this board hates the idea of people loving more than one person at a time. It's just that, too often, that's not what poly is. Poly is more often on the journey in which, first, lives and emotions are being wreaked havoc on, and then, FINALLY, the destination.

 

Might be easier to just have, well, certainly problematic and fallible, but still comparatively more pleasant and less painful monogamous relationships.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Jane2011

[verhrzn]

Jane is absolutely spot on. I'm still sorry the situation didn't turn out for you, m'dear!

[ThingsAreComplicated]

open relationships always have an expiration date while monogamous relationships have an expiration date most of the time

[Sanman]

Going along with Jane's comments, I have always wondered why people want to rush into polyamory. I always felt poly would work best with a couple that already had a deep bond and years together first. Practice the mono relationship, then add poly well after the first relationship is stable. Yet few people have such patience and this is where that selfishness leaches into poly. You still need the ability to practice restraint and follow rules just like a mono relationship, but it is too easy to break rules and just keep the new partner on poly. That fear inhibits communication because there will always be a comparison in poly.

[Leigh 87]

It is not something I could do - and I am a person who hung out with a lot of bisexual and lesibans growing up, and wanted to try a threesome out with my current bf, and did so.

Doing it again and again is not something that felt natural or right for us, however much fun my bf had of living out a HUGE fantasy of his.

I think that in love people can have some outside fun every couple of years, because the desire for sexual varity is NATURAL, mostly with men though, and can still be enjoyed by some guys, even when they are in love with their partner.

I think emotionless sex can take place in a healthy , loving, and very close relationship - but doing it more often, and for emotions to be involved, is something that would diminish the closeness - even for people like me, who was unaffected by watching my bf have sex with another girl twice.

 

Although we were able to emotionally detatch during the sex, and did so twice, it is mostly a fantasy that SOME in love me can inact, and it is not something my boyfriend wants to do again - you know, it is a fantasy. NOt something he needs because monogomy with me bores him.

Most men claim that if their in love, they do not want to touch other women, rather just look at porn or hot girls when they walk down the street.

Personally, I find the men who claim that if their in love and into a women, they could never have meaningless sex with another women; these men seam to preach their views, and assume ALL MEN feel as they do.

I believe some men can be in love, and have meaningless sex every few years in a long term relationship, such as with a hooker, just to experience sexual vairty. Which is natural and apparent in even in love men.

 

I will not judge people in open relationships, given that I find it to be very patronizing how so many people tell me my own partner is not that into me just cos we agreed to some threesomes early on.

That said, I could not fathom my own bf being emotionally invested in another women!!!!! I feel like his unique little creature!!

Some people can do it, but like Verzhen says - these people MUST be cut from a different cloth! For me and my bf - being emotionally bound to one person is ENOUGH and a LOT to feel! I do not have enough love to give TWO men! I adore my bf and feel extremely close and just .. do not have it in me to love TWO people.

 

I think the idea often comes from being together with a partner for so long, and feeling so in love and secure that you do not want to hold each other back from that new rush, the thrill you get when you first hook up with a new person.

Then there are people who must think " wow, there is a big world out there, why limit yourself to one person?

^^^^^^^^^^^^ I thought EXACTLY those things - why limit yourself to one person? If your secure within yourself and KNOW your partner is very much into you for who YOU are - why not both explore other people?

Then I fell in love and neither of us can imagine being this close, and yet loving or liking another person.

 

I Hate people who judge. I truly believe people can be in love, and simply desire different things. Unfortunately, most people in open relationships do not work out, and the dynamics are not healthy or equal, or one person wants to have it all when there other does not.

[Jane2011]

Going along with Jane's comments, I have always wondered why people want to rush into polyamory. I always felt poly would work best with a couple that already had a deep bond and years together first. Practice the mono relationship, then add poly well after the first relationship is stable. Yet few people have such patience and this is where that selfishness leaches into poly. You still need the ability to practice restraint and follow rules just like a mono relationship, but it is too easy to break rules and just keep the new partner on poly. That fear inhibits communication because there will always be a comparison in poly.

 

Actually, sometimes I think it doesn't matter if a couple has been together for a long time before they go poly. As I said above, I have lurked on a poly message board and seen issues in relationships where the primary couple has been together for a couple of decades, and even then, when they go poly, there's a lot of jealousy.

 

I've also noticed a lot of women who are secondaries to a situation are not happy. They've said (one to me over an email): "I would not do this again. It's too late because I've been with him for two years and I'm already in love with him. But I'm always worried his wife is just going to decide 'get rid of her' and that he'll do it..." She also says, "I'm frustrated because I think his wife is trying to sabotage us, but he doesn't see it."

 

Not saying this is representative, yet...honestly, I think it is.

 

I'm lucky that my situation got cut short. I only got to be with him for seven weeks. But I see it more and more as a blessing in disguise that the situation didn't work out for me.

 

I do agree that a couple that is truly established has some advantage in making poly work for them. Maybe they're a bit less insecure about losing each other. But believe me, the possessiveness is still there, big time. Sometimes their years and years and years together make them that much less able to see other partners as equals (to themselves and to each other). When you've been together 25 years and have kids, it's not likely these new girlfriends and boyfriends of a year or two are going to get any true respect. It's always going to be, "Honey, you need to know where your priorities are. I was there for you throughout medical school and the loss of your father. The kids need you. You can have her, but we come first..."

 

The guy can never treat his new girlfriend in a way that is anything close to "equal," nor can the wife her new boyfriend.

 

Balance of power = messed up.

[Jane2011]

Jane is absolutely spot on. I'm still sorry the situation didn't turn out for you, m'dear!

 

Thanks. It's not as big a deal to me anymore, but I still muse on it a lot because it's sociologically very interesting.

 

Still in the process of looking at your thread!

[Jane2011]

It is not something I could do - and I am a person who hung out with a lot of bisexual and lesibans growing up, and wanted to try a threesome out with my current bf, and did so.

Doing it again and again is not something that felt natural or right for us, however much fun my bf had of living out a HUGE fantasy of his.

I think that in love people can have some outside fun every couple of years, because the desire for sexual varity is NATURAL, mostly with men though, and can still be enjoyed by some guys, even when they are in love with their partner.

I think emotionless sex can take place in a healthy , loving, and very close relationship - but doing it more often, and for emotions to be involved, is something that would diminish the closeness - even for people like me, who was unaffected by watching my bf have sex with another girl twice.

 

Although we were able to emotionally detatch during the sex, and did so twice, it is mostly a fantasy that SOME in love me can inact, and it is not something my boyfriend wants to do again - you know, it is a fantasy. NOt something he needs because monogomy with me bores him.

Most men claim that if their in love, they do not want to touch other women, rather just look at porn or hot girls when they walk down the street.

Personally, I find the men who claim that if their in love and into a women, they could never have meaningless sex with another women; these men seam to preach their views, and assume ALL MEN feel as they do.

I believe some men can be in love, and have meaningless sex every few years in a long term relationship, such as with a hooker, just to experience sexual vairty. Which is natural and apparent in even in love men.

 

I will not judge people in open relationships, given that I find it to be very patronizing how so many people tell me my own partner is not that into me just cos we agreed to some threesomes early on.

That said, I could not fathom my own bf being emotionally invested in another women!!!!! I feel like his unique little creature!!

Some people can do it, but like Verzhen says - these people MUST be cut from a different cloth! For me and my bf - being emotionally bound to one person is ENOUGH and a LOT to feel! I do not have enough love to give TWO men! I adore my bf and feel extremely close and just .. do not have it in me to love TWO people.

 

I think the idea often comes from being together with a partner for so long, and feeling so in love and secure that you do not want to hold each other back from that new rush, the thrill you get when you first hook up with a new person.

Then there are people who must think " wow, there is a big world out there, why limit yourself to one person?

^^^^^^^^^^^^ I thought EXACTLY those things - why limit yourself to one person? If your secure within yourself and KNOW your partner is very much into you for who YOU are - why not both explore other people?

Then I fell in love and neither of us can imagine being this close, and yet loving or liking another person.

 

I Hate people who judge. I truly believe people can be in love, and simply desire different things. Unfortunately, most people in open relationships do not work out, and the dynamics are not healthy or equal, or one person wants to have it all when there other does not.

 

I think sexually open relationships are a lot less complicated than polyamory. And I think, even then, the 'sexually open' could/should maybe be monitored very closely. Like, make a point of not sleeping with a person more than twice. I see this is as a less dangerous thing because whatever 'hurt' is involved in sleeping with someone just twice is going to be far less than cultivating a relationship with them, or half a relationship with them, for a period of time, but never being able to fully give your heart to them because of your main partner. Or having to deal with how your main partner's inevitably gonna freak out about you liking someone other than him/her. Or having to deal with the new person's jealousy as well.

 

I realize more and more that the situation I was in was such a polyamory cliche. Guy in a poly couple gets new girlfriend, guy likes new girlfriend a lot, original girl can't deal with it and makes him cut her loose. It happens ALL the time...