The tale of a semi-long term affair.

[Realist3]

You have to know this will blow up. Then what? Your two oldest already know, so there is no secret affair just between you and OW. If it hasn't already, people will start to talk about you and OW at the school. Rumors will start spreading and will eventually get back to your spouses.

 

Unless there is some way that the 4 of you (you, your wife, OW and OW husband) can get together in a room and figure out how to handle it, this has powder keg written all over it.

 

It very well may blow up, but it hasn't in three years. The 4 of us sitting down and talking would definitely blow things up that much I do know. Powder keg is putting it mildly.

 

 

 

Also, I'm sure the OW husband will be happy to know that you made a decision of what is best for him. Especially since he is so controlling.

 

He made the decision to cheat on her for 7 years, so I will let her handle what he knows and does not know. That is her decision.

[Realist3]

You do realize that she's "laying the groundwork" to divorce her hubby, right? Apparently what you think is working for the two of you right now, isn't for her.

 

Be prepared for the pressure Realist . . . like most OW, she's going to expect you to follow her lead sooner rather than later.

 

 

The OW's sis-in-law was the one that informed OW of her husband's affair. I don't think it is necessarily a sign of her 'laying down groundwork' as you put it, she just needed someone to talk to who she could trust.

 

OW have had extensive conversations about every possible scenario and where and how we want it to go. We are both in agreement that the current situation is what is best for the time being.

[96nole]

It very well may blow up, but it hasn't in three years.

 

Those are going to be some famous last words.

 

At least you are fully aware that this can, and most likely will, blow up in epic proportions. I do not envy your position, especially with a total of 6 children involved. There will be a negative impact on the kids one way or another. Best of luck to you and all those involved.

[Realist3]

Those are going to be some famous last words.

 

At least you are fully aware that this can, and most likely will, blow up in epic proportions. I do not envy your position, especially with a total of 6 children involved. There will be a negative impact on the kids one way or another. Best of luck to you and all those involved.

 

Thank you.

 

If there is one bit of advice I would give to anyone who is reading this that is considering getting into an affair, it would be don't do it unless you think long and hard about all of the angles and that is not just limited to the blowing up of families etc.. It may seem exciting at first, but if you fall in love it almost becomes a burden. And that is not a plea for sympathy, just a statement of truth about how all of the issues weigh on you.

[Realist3]

Sounds like the two of you are just selfish people willing to sacrifice others for your own enjoyment. And its funny that you try to justify it by saying your 11 endorses it. Your child is 11 and has no idea what is really at stake. You are suppose to be the parent. At that age your kids shouldn't be learning to cheat and lie from their parents.

 

The 11yo endorsing it is not justification just part of the facts surrounding the situation which make it more complicated.

 

I know it is easy to pass judgement when you read about 1/1000ths of a story. That is not to say that you would have a different opinion if you knew everything. Walk a mile in my shoes and then call me selfish.

[Furious]

It very well may blow up, but it hasn't in three years. The 4 of us sitting down and talking would definitely blow things up that much I do know. Powder keg is putting it mildly.

 

He made the decision to cheat on her for 7 years, so I will let her handle what he knows and does not know. That is her decision.

 

This is what boggles the mind.

 

A husband cheats on his wife for 7 years, and instead of divorcing, the wife years later also cheats on him.

 

It appears that dysfunction is the name of the game, and no one is doing the kids a favor by staying together.

[Realist3]

She could have spoken to anyone about her affair with you - hairdresser, friend, even these boards. She chose to disclose your affair to her husband's sibling. There's a reason why she did it.

 

Either she wants attention from the hubby . . . or she's done with him and laying the groundwork.

 

 

 

Your OW wouldn't be the first OW to be told by her MM that he is not leaving, but still goes ahead and tries to "push" things along by divorcing. "Future faking" is very powerful, especially for an attention-seeking woman.

 

And if the hubby is "controlling" like she claims, then she'll use his behavior post discovery to further fuel her departure and gain even more sympathy from you. She may even claim her "controlling" husband got violent.

 

Surely, you'd want her to leave him right away, no?

 

There's ALWAYS a reason why people do things. She outed your affair for a reason. That being because husband's sister is not going to be able to keep it a secret.

 

 

Alice, I appreciate the insight. I will certainly take all of what you said into consideration.

 

I admit if she did decide to leave her H, I would probably do the same.

[Realist3]

This is what boggles the mind.

 

A husband cheats on his wife for 7 years, and instead of divorcing, the wife years later also cheats on him.

 

It appears that dysfunction is the name of the game, and no one is doing the kids a favor by staying together.

 

When one is dealing with a large amount of assets divorce is not such an easy undertaking. It is very costly and very ugly.

[Furious]

When one is dealing with a large amount of assets divorce is not such an easy undertaking. It is very costly and very ugly.

 

But true love is priceless, so what if instead of 50 million, you have to settle for only 39 million.

 

Divorce is ugly, whether rich or poor.

[Realist3]

Probably? That doesn't sound too convincing. Then just divorce right now.

 

But what about the children and how you've both been martyring yourselves to keep them happy and secure.

 

What about all those tied up assets you spoke about?

 

 

It is something I would have to weigh.

 

The children would be best served by staying in the current situation as we both see it.

 

The assets are tough. Here is a scenario that could be repeated many times over. My parents estate. By any legal standing she(W) owns half of my share. It is an active trust. We purchase/sell stocks, land, etc.. After a divorce it would not just my siblings I making the decisions, but my ex who hates my guts. Do you think playing the cog in the wheel might not be the perfect avenue for revenge?

[Realist3]

But true love is priceless, so what if instead of 50 million, you have to settle for only 39 million.

 

Divorce is ugly, whether rich or poor.

 

 

Very true on all counts.

 

I just haven't decided to cross that bridge yet.

[Furious]

It is something I would have to weigh.

 

The children would be best served by staying in the current situation as we both see it.

 

The assets are tough. Here is a scenario that could be repeated many times over. My parents estate. By any legal standing she(W) owns half of my share. It is an active trust. We purchase/sell stocks, land, etc.. After a divorce it would not just my siblings I making the decisions, but my ex who hates my guts. Do you think playing the cog in the wheel might not be the perfect avenue for revenge?

 

 

The perfect cog in the wheel can be avoided if you divorced your wife, not because you're leaving for someone else, or that the affair was discovered...simply because you can no longer be in an unfulling marriage.

 

Do it for you, not because you're the hero rescuing the damsel in distress from her evil husband.

[Realist3]

Definitely something to think about, Furious. Thanks for the input.

 

I must say when I was asked to start a thread about my situation, I was not expecting to get so many helpful and thoughtful responses. It was started to give a perspective to others so that they could see another side.

[Realist3]

You either value money over love or you don't want a future with the ow because you like the affair aspects, enjoy the highs of sneaking around which makes the sex hotter and you are pulling one over on your wife who you resent greatly. You are probably afraid if you divorced and ended up with the ow that it would become much like your marriage and not be nearly as good as it is now, right?

 

It is not that I value money over love, it is more that I value peace over war, and tranquility over total chaos. The excitement over the things you mentioned is long gone. The effort to keep this hidden is a burden, even though we have perfected it to an art.

 

I have no concerns about how great a marriage I could have with OW. It is a very strong pull for both of us.

 

Your ow wants a man who is all in, she will tire of waiting and due to the interactions between your families, she will force your hand by either causing a d day indirectly or directly. Most women who have affairs don't want to settle for part time because they are in love.

 

She knows I'm all in. How that ends up manifesting itself in the future is an unknown. The one thing that I think has made this work so far is that we have a balance. We share many of the same scenarios in our lives and respect those. Believe me we have spent hours discussing what if's.

[jwi71]

Realist3,

 

Have you spoken to a lawyer in regards to divorce and trust. Typically a D immediately revocates the ex-spouses claim/bequests on fiduciary appointments such as trusts and wills.

 

Further, the ex-spouse, even in the process of D can make no claim/bequest of a trust nor assert any credible claim of ownership/entitlement to the assets under a parents fiduciary instrument for property division.

 

In sum, I strongly think the trust is off limits to her.

 

The easiest solution is to ask your lawyer what claims your stbxw has on your parents estate. I'm fairly positive it's zero. CA law may be different from TX law....

 

You will likely have to split other assets though.

 

I would also suggest D. Yes, short term it sucks but ultimately, long term, it's not only healthier but better for all involved. I can only imagine what your daughter thinks when you tell her to be honest given that you are not only not honest but willingly involve her in this conspiracy against her mother. I would be very concerned about the mixed messages you are teaching her.

 

And seriously, money isn't everything. You hint at that with your backstory then promptly refute it by "refusing to D". It's not a consistent message.

 

I'd talk, extensively with your parents (to change the will/trust), lawyers and accountants to see what the real legal and financial picture is - not just assume powder keg.

 

And why is D your W in a chilly M with her mostly gone going to do that anyway?

[alexandria35]

I can't believe anyone would put their own children is a such a sick and twisted posititon as you have done. You say that your two oldest know all about it, and that the oldest is 11, meaning that the other one who know is even younger. Oh man...what a dysfunctional toxic situation you have put them in. Of course you have their approval and loyalty. You are their full time parent and they look up to you and believe in anything you tell them. They have young impressionable minds and at this time it is your job to be teaching all the good lessons they need to know to grow up to become emotionally stable and able to have healthy relationships. That you are in this position of power over your children and that you are twisting their thinking this way is really really disturbing. One day when your 11 yr old daughter grows up and has her own child and she remembers the deceit she participated in with you against her own mother she is going to go into therapy. The very nature of this set up completely crosses all kinds parent child boundaries and imo you are abusing your position as their father and setting them up to have emotional issues later on. What if your 11 yr old daughter grows up, falls in love, marrys the man of her dreams and then he cheats on her. While she is going through that emotional devastation how do you think she will perceive you then? How do you think she will feel about all this when she is a grown woman with her own family and she looks back and remembers this deceit that you had her participate in? Think it's going to fill her with warm fuzzy memories? Oh you will fall from the pedestal she has you on now and you will fall hard, but whats even sadder is that she may have to go through some tough emotional times herself before she realizes that Daddy messed up her head and now she needs professional help.

[Realist3]

Realist3,

 

Have you spoken to a lawyer in regards to divorce and trust. Typically a D immediately revocates the ex-spouses claim/bequests on fiduciary appointments such as trusts and wills.

 

Further, the ex-spouse, even in the process of D can make no claim/bequest of a trust nor assert any credible claim of ownership/entitlement to the assets under a parents fiduciary instrument for property division.

 

In sum, I strongly think the trust is off limits to her.

 

The easiest solution is to ask your lawyer what claims your stbxw has on your parents estate. I'm fairly positive it's zero. CA law may be different from TX law....

 

You will likely have to split other assets though.

 

I would also suggest D. Yes, short term it sucks but ultimately, long term, it's not only healthier but better for all involved. I can only imagine what your daughter thinks when you tell her to be honest given that you are not only not honest but willingly involve her in this conspiracy against her mother. I would be very concerned about the mixed messages you are teaching her.

 

And seriously, money isn't everything. You hint at that with your backstory then promptly refute it by "refusing to D". It's not a consistent message.

 

I'd talk, extensively with your parents (to change the will/trust), lawyers and accountants to see what the real legal and financial picture is - not just assume powder keg.

 

And why is D your W in a chilly M with her mostly gone going to do that anyway?

 

 

No, I haven't spoken with an attorney yet. But you are right I should. My parents passed away 11 years ago within six months of each other. So yes, I did make the assumption anything I inherited during our marriage would be common property trust or not. And of course all of our business interests would be. I live in TX, not CA, so maybe your advise is very pertinent. OW and her H have extensive properties in CA. Ours are in TX, FL, and NY.

 

Call me weak or whatever, but the only thing I see persuading me to seek a divorce is if OW and I decide to start a new life together, and it just is not at that point yet. And yes, I am scared of the unknown. I know a lot of people do it, but our family unit, as dysfunctional as it is, is important to my kids.

 

Like I mentioned there are many different aspects, not just the money. The social. I am very close with W's parents and siblings. Relationships that have been 26 years in the making.

[frozensprouts]

The 11yo endorsing it is not justification just part of the facts surrounding the situation which make it more complicated.

 

I know it is easy to pass judgement when you read about 1/1000ths of a story. That is not to say that you would have a different opinion if you knew everything. Walk a mile in my shoes and then call me selfish.

 

realist...

most of us here HAVE walked a mile in your shoes ( or walked a mile in your wife's shoes)...

 

I don't think you're a terrible guy, just an average guy who's in a situation that may have certain aspects and hazards that are apparent to people who aren't as close to the situation as you. Many of us ahve heard very similar stories from our own spouses ( or even told those same stories ourselves).

 

and no, your wife saying "don't put it in my face" ( or whatever language she used) is not the same as giving her tacit approval. It does not mean she is definately "okay" with it. You won't know unless you ask her.

 

really, you are choosing to stay in your marriage because it provides you with some benefits, whatever those may be. But if you are going to enjoy those bennifits, then you realy need to be upfront and honest with her. The very fact that you don't talk to her about it and let her know what is going on leads me to believe that, on some very fundamental level, you know she isn't okay with it, and that you know it's not as simple as that.

[Realist3]

I can't believe anyone would put their own children is a such a sick and twisted posititon as you have done. You say that your two oldest know all about it, and that the oldest is 11

 

No, I said OUR two oldest. That means my oldest and OW's oldest who is 16.

[96nole]

When one is dealing with a large amount of assets divorce is not such an easy undertaking. It is very costly and very ugly.

 

Basically, your situations falls under the "it's cheaper to keep her" category.

 

It reminds me of one of the controlling partners that owns the company I work for. He and his girlfriend live in one house. His wife lives a few doors down in the marital house. He pays for everything for the wife and they all go about their day to day business. I don't know if there are any kids involved, they may be grown if there are any.

 

Of course the difference being that the wife knows about the girlfriend.

[alexandria35]

She is 11. We have had very frank discussions about it. She likes the OW better than her Mom. She knows what would happen. She has a good head on her shoulders.

 

and

 

If anything my 11yo is pushing me to go with the OW.

 

Clearly your 11 yr old knows what is going on and she is participating in the deceit against her own mother under your guidance. This is going to F**K up her head really bad in the long run and I think you are emotionally abusing her by including her in your secrets and deceit. Deep in her heart this little girl loves her mom but she has buried that to cope with the situation you have put her in. Telling herself that the OW is better and that she actually likes the OW more than she likes her own mom is the way she deals with the position she finds herself. She has to choose between her loyalty to you or her loyalty to her mother. So her little mind rationalizes that she likes the OW more. Trust me. She loves her mom and when she grows up she is going to carry a deep toxic shame for this and that shame will manifest itself in her life in the most destructive ways. Of course she shouldn't feel ashamed as none of this is her fault or her doing but unfortunately shame that we carry from childhood buries itself deep into our psyche and it takes years to get rid of it. What you are doing to your children is really sick and you are of an age where you should be far wiser and more insightful than you are.

 

This is one of those things that are far worse than the affair itself. Have a thousand affairs with a thousand women if you want. But keep your kids out of it and don't make them choose lies and deceit to protect you. Don't make them carry toxic secrets into their adulthood because it's going to mess them up and wreak havoc on their adult lives.

[Realist3]

and no, your wife saying "don't put it in my face" ( or whatever language she used) is not the same as giving her tacit approval. It does not mean she is definately "okay" with it. You won't know unless you ask her.

 

She has never pursued it any further. The email was explicit. She asked me who it was and I refused to tell her. Over the course of several weeks she figured out who it was, and I told her "yep, that is who it is." It has never been brought up since. She hasn't asked for email accounts, FB passwords etc.. So, in my mind that is indeed tacit approval.

[Realist3]

And the fact that she didn't pursue it any further did perplex me for a time. That was 2 1/2 years ago. She saw OW coaching my daughter's sports team this spring. Not a word.

[Realist3]

I'm not including her in anything. I'm sorry that your situation harmed you so, that is very unfortunate.

 

Anything between OW and my daughter is because my daughter has taken the initiative. I didn't push it, she sought out a woman she liked. I don't talk to my daughter about anything to do with OW.

[jwi71]

No, I haven't spoken with an attorney yet. But you are right I should. My parents passed away 11 years ago within six months of each other. So yes, I did make the assumption anything I inherited during our marriage would be common property trust or not. And of course all of our business interests would be. I live in TX, not CA, so maybe your advise is very pertinent. OW and her H have extensive properties in CA. Ours are in TX, FL, and NY.

 

Since you are in TX there I'm even more positive the trust is untouchable to her. And there are several legal methods at play. You really need to talk to a lawyer and get his/her advice. My lawyer was Tom Raggio....and I HIGHLY recommend him.

 

Call me weak or whatever, but the only thing I see persuading me to seek a divorce is if OW and I decide to start a new life together, and it just is not at that point yet. And yes, I am scared of the unknown. I know a lot of people do it, but our family unit, as dysfunctional as it is, is important to my kids.

 

Ok. You are staying for your kids. It's a valid reason and one I tried myself. It lasted maybe 6 weeks before I couldn't take it anymore. Like you, I worried and fretted and agonized that my "selfish" desire to leave was hurting my kids family life. However, when a M deteriorates to that point, and given that you have included your oldest in the conspiracy and given how perceptive she is - I'm not sure your thought processes are translating well into reality. What family unit do you presume your kids want? You have already said they don't think much of her as a mother, she is frequently gone and she knows of your OW - what exactly is to be protected here? What illusions do you think your kids harbor given all that? That mommy and daddy are happy and in love? Methinks not.

 

Can you elaborate on that because I see nothing that supports your assertion.

 

Contradictions are brutal on humans - especially children.

 

Like I mentioned there are many different aspects, not just the money. The social. I am very close with W's parents and siblings. Relationships that have been 26 years in the making.

 

More contradictions. If you have cultivated 26 years of close ties to her famille that you seem unwilling to lose - unless you can be with your OW. Then it's ok?

Not to repeat myself, but some of the things you are saying don't make sense.

 

You want to preserve the family unit for the kids - who you admitted your ongoing A to.

 

You don't want to jeopardize your in-laws, risk social "stigma". But you will if the OW leaves. For you. And leaves first I gather.

 

From my vantage, given some of the fallacies I pointed out, this A and indeed the OW herself is pure escapism. I'm sure each of you have valid reasons for not leaving, kids, money, social stigma and so on. Always a reason to NOT act. Always a reason, beyond your control, to not leave. "You" can't change/control these externalities (in regards to the A) so they in turn control you. Except I'm not sure YOU try want to leave.

 

I put forth that you don't leave because you don't want to.

And you don't stay be ause you don't want to.

 

So, what do you want. Most people say, and I'm assuming you will as well, robe happy

 

So...what will make you happy?