The Modern Era of Dating and Heartbreat

[seachangeoflove]

So I need to be super rich to make up for the fact that God decided to screw me over?

 

 

hey at least that's an option!! I was a very unattractive and akward girl but I was a near prodigy in a certain area. So between being chubby with frizzy hair and wearing coke bottom glasses I was also super smart. If that's not a magnet for men I don't know what is!

 

My girl friends (the 2 I had) told me to lose weight, wear make up etc...

 

 

I thought that I was smarter then them...so I bought a sports car thinking "well, that works for men to get hot babes then I will buy this BMW Z3"

 

 

well, I had guys who wanted to drive my car....but not drive me....yeah, it was hard. I thought I could "win" and be the ugly girl who gets the guy anyway since I was smart and sucessful and had such a fantastic personality.

 

Not so much I lost 40 pounds, spent a fortune on make up and hair care and finally got some attention in my late 20s...

 

but then they all get scared when they figure out how much $ I make, which is why I joined here..anyway

[seachangeoflove]

It's hard for women because from the time they're little girls they're told they can have it all, more importantly, they deserve it all.

 

And so they focus on their career, dating man after man until, one day, they turn 30 and biology starts to make itself heard like an air siren.

 

And they were promised a good looking, tall, well educated, family oriented ( yet not too soft and friendly ), confident, financially succesful man.

 

The only problem with this is that these men can have women two decades your junior, without all of the demands and expectations that come with your advanced age.

 

 

I don't know what planet you are on but I was never told any of those things.....

 

 

I was told to make my own path in life and to be responsible for myself.

 

I was never promised anything, but taxes and death!

[TheBigQuestion]

*Scratches head* If you already know that men are visual, then why continue to slag me for referencing it? (IE, why I'm single.) And why say anything in the first place??

 

I didn't slag you for referencing it. You never responded to my post on the last page as to why I thought the Salon article was dumb.

[EasyHeart]

As I read that article, it basically says, "Men responded to feminism in completely rational and predictable ways, and now we're going to whine about it!"

 

Marriage has never been so lopsided as it is now. Most women want to be both the man and the woman in the relationship, which leaves the man with no role. He ends up being little more than his wife's servant who dutifully performs his "Honey-Do" List each weekend, until one day his wife decides that she "feel unfulfilled" and leaves him.

 

One of the crucial facts that most women don't seem to understand is that while socially successful women marry early and well, the socially successful man is one who manages to stay single and have a happy social and sex life. Unless you really, really want to have kids, there is simply no incentive nowadays for a man to get married.

[verhrzn]

I didn't slag you for referencing it. You never responded to my post on the last page as to why I thought the Salon article was dumb.

 

Didn't see it, got lost in the other posts.

 

Also, not sure there's really much else to say. You think it's hogwash because it doesn't blame feminism, and some women are also commitment-phobic. Kay.

 

The part of the article I was particularly interested in was the idea of having so many options means people are less likely to actually choose an option, and that there's now a high commodity on women's looks.

[seachangeoflove]

Unless you really, really want to have kids, there is simply no incentive nowadays for anyone to get married.

 

 

fixed that for you. I'm a woman and I do not want to get married. I have female friends who are paying alimony and child support.

 

a gf of mine married a man with 2 kids from a previous marraige. She's a doctor and makes twice in a year what her husband EVER made.

 

Her husbands ex wife sued for more child support, since he married a wealthy woman. Court ordered my friend to pay 400 a month in child support, for kids that were not even hers!

 

Well, she won that battle. she paid the legal fees, took her hubby's ex to court and now his kids with with them full time. They raise his two kids, the two children together and he is a sahd. Very happy family!!!

 

it's not a common sotry , but I bet it will be more and more. a really good friend of mine (male) worked like a dog while his fiance was in med school and covered a lot. They are getting married and plan to have him quit his job and stay home with the kids as she now works in a hospital. Guess what? He had it put in a prenup that he gets spousal support if they divorce.

 

I don't blame him!!

[EasyHeart]

The Truth About Beauty | Psychology Today

I went to high school with Amy Alkon!! (true story)

 

Everyone should read her "Advice Goddess" column and blog if you don't already.

[TheBigQuestion]

Didn't see it, got lost in the other posts.

 

Also, not sure there's really much else to say. You think it's hogwash because it doesn't blame feminism, and some women are also commitment-phobic. Kay.

 

The part of the article I was particularly interested in was the idea of having so many options means people are less likely to actually choose an option, and that there's now a high commodity on women's looks.

 

No. I think it's hogwash because everyone, to some degree or another, has an uphill battle when it comes to dating. The fact that women behave in the same way the article implies men mostly do and that feminism played a role in creating the market conditions that exist today are afterthoughts.

 

That article is no different than the ones written by bitter "lovable losers" who lament that women friend-zone them. All such articles are attempts to deflect responsibility for one's own lot in life.

 

You aren't getting passed over for dates and relationships just because the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition is a thing.

Edited June 25, 2012 by TheBigQuestion

[verhrzn]

No. I think it's hogwash because everyone, to some degree or another, has an uphill battle when it comes to dating. The fact that women behave in the same way the article implies men mostly do and that feminism played a role in creating the market conditions that exist today are afterthoughts.

 

That article is no different than the ones written by bitter "lovable losers" who lament that women friend-zone them. All such articles are attempts to deflect responsibility for one's own lot in life.

 

Except there is a lot of empirical evidence that things we can't control (what class we're born to, what type of parents, what genes we're born with) strongly influence our lives. Yeah, we are all still responsible somewhat... but as other posters have pointed out, sometimes life is unfair.

 

Sometimes you are born ugly in a society that values beauty, and there's nothing you can do about it (short of surgery.) Why is it somehow a bad thing to acknowledge this?

 

I think I've asked this before, but I'll try again: short of plastic surgery and basic beauty tips (good hygiene, make-up, etc), what can an ugly girl (ugly determined by genes) do to become physically attractive? Is it abdicating personal responsibility to say," There's really nothing else she CAN do, either people are attracted to her or not." And when you live in a society that places such emphasis on looks... something she doesn't possess...

 

Pointing out that we live in a society with norms and certain expectations is not abdicating personal responsibility.

[TheBigQuestion]

Except there is a lot of empirical evidence that things we can't control (what class we're born to, what type of parents, what genes we're born with) strongly influence our lives. Yeah, we are all still responsible somewhat... but as other posters have pointed out, sometimes life is unfair.

 

Sometimes you are born ugly in a society that values beauty, and there's nothing you can do about it (short of surgery.) Why is it somehow a bad thing to acknowledge this?

 

I think I've asked this before, but I'll try again: short of plastic surgery and basic beauty tips (good hygiene, make-up, etc), what can an ugly girl (ugly determined by genes) do to become physically attractive? Is it abdicating personal responsibility to say," There's really nothing else she CAN do, either people are attracted to her or not." And when you live in a society that places such emphasis on looks... something she doesn't possess...

 

Pointing out that we live in a society with norms and certain expectations is not abdicating personal responsibility.

 

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging it. It's common knowledge that you aren't in control of all the cards you are dealt in life, but you are 100% in control of how you play the hand. You post articles like these all the time, and the response to them is nearly always critical, even from most women. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish. I acknowledge that media will have some impact on what men will find attractive. But there are so many other factors that come into play besides physical attraction.

 

I could point out all sorts of examples of people who are conventionally unattractive who find love and happiness, but you would just dismiss them as being total outliers, or that you are somehow completely different from any of them.

[verhrzn]

There's nothing wrong with acknowledging it. It's common knowledge that you aren't in control of all the cards you are dealt in life, but you are 100% in control of how you play the hand. You post articles like these all the time, and the response to them is nearly always critical, even from most women. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish. I acknowledge that media will have some impact on what men will find attractive. But there are so many other factors that come into play besides physical attraction.

 

I could point out all sorts of examples of people who are conventionally unattractive who find love and happiness, but you would just dismiss them as being total outliers, or that you are somehow completely different from any of them.

 

Yeah, well, most of the women on this forum are also very attractive, by their own telling (and most of the regulars are also taken.) So, while I like having different sides to a discussion, it's not surprise I end up alone on my side... I think I'm the only female Ugly Loser this board has.

 

And... how can you say those ugly girls who found partners aren't outliners? Or that I'm not completely different? I'm a freak in lots of ways apparently... why not this one too?

[seachangeoflove]

I think I've asked this before, but I'll try again: short of plastic surgery and basic beauty tips (good hygiene, make-up, etc), what can an ugly girl (ugly determined by genes) do to become physically attractive?

 

 

 

have a career, support herself, date the men who aren't relationship quality and don't commit.

 

 

 

Don't look to have all your needs met from one person. Have a FWB and have some good close friends.

[grkBoy]

I am lucky to have a job with 12 weeks of vacation per year...

 

Do you live in Europe?

 

 

And you'd think those guys would thank me for being honest and not wasting their time.

 

You'd also be thinking wrong....Ive had some say "Oh I only have my my proifile I want kids, but I really don't"

 

um, wow so you're admitting to lying?

 

Or "You'll change your mind." well, that was what I heard in my 20s

 

but seriously...I don't get it! I am NOT complaining about not having had a bf in 5 years. I would rather be alone then with someone who is not right for me AND I AM NOT RIGHT FOR THEM!

 

I think this is similar to when a guy comes clean with himself and to others and says he doesn't want to marry, commit or anything. He might be working, making good money, having fun on his off-time, and even wanting to be able to move on a moment's notice for work.

 

He'll come clean early on with women and let them know how far things will go because he doesn't want to waste a marriage-minded woman's time.

 

Unfortunately, like the men you meet, those women then think they can change his mind, and when it's clear he won't budge, they call him a child, tell him to "grow up", or complain how he's immature and such.

 

The problem is with those women and the men you speak of...they are still thinking of what a RL means to them personally. Those men wanted YOU, but they wanted you to fit in with their imaginary picture of life...just like those women do with those men.

[verhrzn]

have a career, support herself, date the men who aren't relationship quality and don't commit.

 

Don't look to have all your needs met from one person. Have a FWB and have some good close friends.

 

Not a bad plan. Sadly, I've always wanted a family. I'd do ANYTHING to rid myself of that. No more biological clock, no more wanting a relationship. Seriously, if I could magically wish away anything about my brain, it'd be the desire of children/a husband.

[seachangeoflove]

Do you live in Europe?

 

 

 

 

I wish, but ,aybe some day. It is unpaid time off, for 'personal development' of which I am allowed up to 12 weeks of. I also get the standard 2 weeks off paid. So 14 weeks total per year.

 

I think my problem is that I am too logical as I am an enginner. But most men aren't used to that with most women and I confuse them or they lose my interest since I dislike games.

 

part of why I came to LS. I am upfront and honest and it's not been working well for me so far!

 

My last relationship ended because my bf changed his mind and decided HE wanted kids. I let him go but it was hard. I dated for fun for a few years but I would like to have a relationship now.

[PJKino]

If women have more earning power why is power still as important for them in a mate then?

[seachangeoflove]

Not a bad plan. Sadly, I've always wanted a family. I'd do ANYTHING to rid myself of that. No more biological clock, no more wanting a relationship. Seriously, if I could magically wish away anything about my brain, it'd be the desire of children/a husband.

 

 

it's funny because I feel the hormonal shift and it's hard. Very hard. But I have never wanted them and even now I have moments. But I know that I do not want to make the sacrifices. But the force, it is great and it is real.

 

I know many women I work with who DID change their mind after years of swearing to be childless...it's nuts.

 

 

 

Are you an aunt? i have 5 nieces and nephews. It's just the right dose of children!

[verhrzn]

it's funny because I feel the hormonal shift and it's hard. Very hard. But I have never wanted them and even now I have moments. But I know that I do not want to make the sacrifices. But the force, it is great and it is real.

I know many women I work with who DID change their mind after years of swearing to be childless...it's nuts.

Are you an aunt? i have 5 nieces and nephews. It's just the right dose of children!

 

No, my sister refuses to have children. She's 24, and much more Bohemian than I am.... doesn't really want a relationship, has lots of FWBs, just sort of wants to wander the world. She just finished up a 3-month-long fling with an investment banker. Pretty sure I'm never gonna end up with nieces or nephews.

[SteveC80]

Better isn't the point. I'm not trying to claim women are angels with absolutely no standards. As a whole, psychology is proving we absolutely do have standards. But they are different standards than men.

 

Men have visual standards, women have power standards.

 

Thats bs,i did my best with women when i was at my physical peak in my early 20's, my only job was a small small role in soap operas i was making nothing and had women all over me for a time

 

Women are extremely visual believe me,just because unattractive ones dont think they can get the really hot guys or insecure girls like you train yourselves not to be attracted to good looiking guys because you think they arent attracted to you doesnt mean women including yourself arent visual

Edited June 25, 2012 by SteveC80

[verhrzn]

Thats bs,i did my best with women when i was at my physical peak in my early 20's, my only job was a small small role in soap operas i was making nothing and has women all over me for a time

 

Women are extremely visual believe me,just because unattractive ones dont think they can get the really hot guys or insecure girls like you trian yourselves not to be attracted to good looiking guys because you think they arent attracted to you doesnt mean women including yourself arent visual

 

The articles are studying genders as a whole. And while I'm sure women are at least somewhat visual, between the two "sides" (visual vs. practical, let's call it) women seem to favor the practical. Men are more visual over practical but that doesn't mean they don't rule out the practical (I see this in instances of guys not wanting to be recipients of a gold-digger, no matter how hot she is.)

[MaxNoob]

Not a bad plan. Sadly, I've always wanted a family. I'd do ANYTHING to rid myself of that. No more biological clock, no more wanting a relationship. Seriously, if I could magically wish away anything about my brain, it'd be the desire of children/a husband.

 

This girl makes some good points against having kids:

[fishtaco]

...so, a cast system like India makes dating easier?

 

How do you determine your self-worth within the pecking order of your cast? Back to square one?

 

Was there a time when self-worth was clear?

[RedRobin]

I think the article just regurgitates stuff I've been reading in one form or another for as long as I can remember.

 

Every time the economy takes a serious downturn, you'll see stuff like this.

 

Makes alot of erroneous assumptions about what men and women want. It also is wrong that men have higher social capital for having lots of women and being the swinging bachelor.

 

Where I come from, if a man isn't married by a certain age (mid 30's, early 40's MAX), he is viewed as unstable and will be passed over for promotions... unless he is gay that is.

 

If they got married young and get divorced, they don't stay single long. They have alot of pressure to get married and stay married. The guys at least.

 

So I disagree with the assumptions in this article. I haven't witnessed them myself. Both men and women at the highest social strata are encouraged to be in committed relationships. Always have been.

 

Hugh Hefner may be rich. But he isn't getting invited to the White House or Bill Gates' house either, if you catch my drift.

[sid3]

I think the article just regurgitates stuff I've been reading in one form or another for as long as I can remember.

 

Every time the economy takes a serious downturn, you'll see stuff like this.

 

Makes alot of erroneous assumptions about what men and women want. It also is wrong that men have higher social capital for having lots of women and being the swinging bachelor.

 

Where I come from, if a man isn't married by a certain age (mid 30's, early 40's MAX), he is viewed as unstable and will be passed over for promotions... unless he is gay that is.

 

If they got married young and get divorced, they don't stay single long. They have alot of pressure to get married and stay married. The guys at least.

 

So I disagree with the assumptions in this article. I haven't witnessed them myself. Both men and women at the highest social strata are encouraged to be in committed relationships. Always have been.

 

Hugh Hefner may be rich. But he isn't getting invited to the White House or Bill Gates' house either, if you catch my drift.

Do you really think that bothers Hugh Heffner?

[zengirl]

Marriage has never been so lopsided as it is now. Most women want to be both the man and the woman in the relationship, which leaves the man with no role. He ends up being little more than his wife's servant who dutifully performs his "Honey-Do" List each weekend, until one day his wife decides that she "feel unfulfilled" and leaves him.

 

One of the crucial facts that most women don't seem to understand is that while socially successful women marry early and well, the socially successful man is one who manages to stay single and have a happy social and sex life. Unless you really, really want to have kids, there is simply no incentive nowadays for a man to get married.

 

I'm surprised to hear you say this so cynically, EH. Must be the confirmed bachelor in you, I guess. But do you really believe that marriage needs to be lopsided or that most marriages are as you described? My marriage is hardly defined by gender roles, but I wouldn't say Hubby has no role, or that I have no role. The same for my parents. Can't people carve their own roles out nowadays?

 

Hubby doesn't want to have kids, and yet he felt some incentive --- a rather strong one --- to get married. The same one I felt: the desire to have a partner and not go it alone. The world is kind of hard alone, harder as you get older, I imagine. When you find someone who makes life better, easier, and more fun, why not hang on tight? At the same time, why marry someone who doesn't do all those things for you and more? Just for social capital? No thanks! I don't understand the reliance on social roles to create a romance or a marriage. Personally I never wanted there to be male/female roles in my marriage; I just wanted a man who complemented me.

 

No, my sister refuses to have children. She's 24, and much more Bohemian than I am.... doesn't really want a relationship, has lots of FWBs, just sort of wants to wander the world. She just finished up a 3-month-long fling with an investment banker. Pretty sure I'm never gonna end up with nieces or nephews.

 

Because everyone stays the same as they are at 24?