men, intimacy and emotions

[gaius]

It's not that men don't want intimacy and emotions with women but more often than not when we try to have it women become unattracted to us.

I've experienced just the opposite. Usually women love it when you open up to them, as long as that opening up doesn't include excessive whining/complaining/crying/insecurity.

[xxoo]

What's with this feeding men? I prefer guys who cook and feed me.

 

The old adage holds some merit: "The way to a man's heart is through is stomach."

[RedRobin]

Women underestimate the emotional capacity of men with the right women or people they feel emotionally compelled with, like children, possibly family, etc..

 

I don't think most women underestimate men's emotional capacity at all. It's why so many women get sucked into staying in relationships with bad men... because they do see that side of them. Even seriously f*cked up dysfunctional men.

 

However, smart women learn to stop giving men a big 'cookie' for being a thinking, caring, human being. For them, that is the price of admission. Or should be.

[Bristolius]

But this happens to women too, if not more than men...I feel like an average man needs real intimacy and emotions considerably less than an average woman so it's easier for them to be closed to it if they want to.

 

It's not true because you feel like it's true. That's emotion, not reason. Take people, and men, as you find them, one at a time.

[phineas]

I've know more men with oneitis for a woman they havn't slept with than guys who became attached after sex.

 

Also for me, if their acting shady or playing games I disconnect emotionally because I know their not going to be around much longer.

 

Sex is not the factor for me because i've found myself attached to women who led me on for months without sex.

 

The things a woman can do is what will get me attached to her. The closer her interests are to mine the greater the chance i'll get attached. Also the "type" of woman. Girly girls that wear a lot of make-up & are afraid to sweat or do work don't have a chance with me.

 

But a farm girl who isn't afraid of getting dirty & can fix farm equipment is my heavenly blessed beauty & there are a good amount of them in my neck of the woods.

 

Uninhibited sex & amazing dome is just icing on the cake.

[joystickd]

I will say with guys that are starting out it takes physical intimacy sometime for them to get that emotional side going. Like Phineas said about men with oneitis. After really feeling something like that for a woman and no sex it usually means sex becomes an indicator of true interest and reciprocation of feelings. Its a matter of them knowing you feel the same way about them. We all can say things that others like to hear but its the actions that confirm that.

[It's Just Me]

First-time poster, here. Great site, and great discussion here. I'm female, by the way, and have a bunch of theories on this topic.

 

I have been single/dating since 2006, and only last year did I finally have an epiphany about men, thanks to many conversations I had on dates via online dating. The demographic I'm talking about is men in mid-late 40s, previously divorced. I was going on three dates or more per month, for a solid 18 months, until August of last year. I was looking for a long-term relationship.

 

Most, if not all, were fresh off the divorce boat, i.e., within the last 12 months. In no way were any of these guys in any condition to be considering another relationship. And yet, I would say that 85% of these were actively looking for another partner, despite being bereft of any ability to form anything other than a vague connection with another woman. Many were still angry and bitter about their spouses, due to financial strain and the pain of being cheated on. A divorce is like a death, and requires a grieving process. Many still missed their previous lives, and still carried a torch for their former spouses, despite the pain.

 

The other 15% were ready, and yet still gun-shy. One guy, who was quite a character (but not the right fit for me) was very succinct. In his words:

 

1. It's not about sex, and you have to be more than just a pretty face.

2. I am watching how you interact with others (waiters, cashiers); this says a lot about your character. I need to know that I can trust you.

3. I also need to know that you're not a crazy, stalking bunny boiler.

4. Do not bend over backwards to meet my every need. That's just creepy.

5. Have a life of your own. Do not make me the centre of it.

6. Be able to stand on your own two feet financially, or I will not respect you.

7. Make plans to be with your friends without me. I need to be able to do the same.

8. All of the above will make me desire a woman that much more, regardless of how she looks, or how much cleavage she shows.

 

My epiphany was that I was not giving guys enough credit for their restraint. I was raised to believe that all you needed was a nice rack and the ability to cook (in the kitchen and in the sack) to keep a guy happy. In previous relationships, I was very guilty of point no. 4 - I thought it was a nice thing to do for the person you loved. Not so much, apparently.

 

After getting my head around all those eight points, and internalizing the "don't be so nice" mantra, I met a man online in August of last year and we've been together ever since. He was the first guy for whom I didn't cook on a first visit to my place. He was the first guy for whom I would not change my plans if he was too late in "booking me" for a weekend or a date. To this day, he still says that I was the only girl who didn't have this bizarre need for constant contact via text, etc., and he found that attractive.

 

Funny, huh? Anyone else care to corroborate?

[thatone]

yeah, pretty much. don't get me wrong, the flirty text messages and phone calls in the first few weeks are all fine and good, and pretty fun. but after that period is over, it's OVER, at least for me.

 

in your age range, as you say most men are divorced, and they already have one woman stuck in their wallet that they would otherwise rather see dead. so the last thing they need is another one attached to their other pocket via a phone. pretty good way to justify joining the priesthood when that's the case.

 

now i will give you that all women are that way to an extent, in that they need validation from time to time. i get that. but i don't have all day to respond to text messages and random "i love you" facebook posts. so at this point in my current relationship, even though my gf does those things still, they get ignored for the most part.

 

when she brought up the fact that i stopped replying to her texts i pointed out that responding to texts when i have other people working for me during the day that i need to talk to things about is pretty rude, and how i wouldn't expect her to put her job on hold or her friends on hold to answer texts and phone calls from me when she's busy either. so she pretty much does those things without response to appease herself at this point.

 

same thing goes with the random facebook stuff. i might hit 'like' on the ones i see but i'm not an object for her to parade in front of her digital friends. so if i don't see that stuff at the top of the news feed, i never see it. that's actually getting to the point that she's annoying her own friends, who are the only ones who reply to such stuff. she's already had one get short with her and block her, so she'll figure it out eventually.

 

and the same goes for real life, not just digital life. i visualize relationships like baseball. three strikes (major infractions) and you're out. my current gf has had ample opportunity to rack up strikes but to her credit hasn't yet. first was a trip that i had planned to visit friends for a concert in florida a few weeks back. planned it before we met, and yes all of those friends were younger with very attractive female friends around all the time. she just had to get over it, the trip was planned before we met and if she could've taken vacation from work, she would've been welcome to come along, but she couldn't. i called her once during the trip, and responded to a couple of texts, that was it. if she would've gone into insecurity meltdown that would've been a big strike one.

 

the next such episode was this past week. had some windows built for the house i'm restoring and went to pick them up with a guy that works for me, and on the way we stopped off in nashville to see roger waters (pink floyd members are starting to die off after all). again, she would've been more than welcome to come along, but can't get off of work for a trip on a tuesday, which is fine. yes me and that guy who works for me hit the bars before and after the show, no we did not drag any drunken party girls back to our hotel rooms. she'll have to take my word for that.

 

now the flip side is i'm not a heartless bastard who just shows up at her place for sex, we have a normal relationship otherwise. we talk on the phone every day when i'm home. i do plenty for her when we're together, always pay for dates and other little things she needs, and we go and do plenty of things that she wants when we're together, and the affection in person goes both ways, our sex life is good, and we don't fight or argue.

 

an adult relationship denotes adults, each of which have lots of other things to do that have nothing to do with said relationship. if an adult relationship degrades to the female half of it sitting around obsessing about me all day long and needing constant attention to remind her that she's achieved the success of actually having a boyfriend then that sounds more like high school to me, not an adult relationship. and if i was willing to deal with such annoyance then i'd go find a 22 year old who was looking for an older guy to buy her a car and pay her rent. at least the 22 year old would be acting her age. so, as i said, when she wants to do that stuff she's doing it for herself, because i don't participate, i just tune it out, which in my eyes is a pretty generous compromise that wouldn't happen unless we got along so well in person and had so many other things in common.

 

the way i look at it at this point, all of her daytime random texts and facebook attention fishing are her thing that she does by herself, just like the stuff i do during the day is stuff i do by myself.

 

now, if she had no desire to do that sort of thing at all she'd be perfect and we'd be married already. but no one is perfect . as long as they're sane (along with common interest stuff mentioned in above posts) i'll see potential. from that point on we see how it goes.

[mesmerized]

I have all those points...believe it or not. My issue isn't keeping a relationship , it's meeting less men who are all about sex.

[joystickd]

I have all those points...believe it or not. My issue isn't keeping a relationship , it's meeting less men who are all about sex.

Have you ever thought maybe you give off a sexual vibe? Its very easy to say all men want sex, but the thing is if you keep meeting guys like this then you have to ask yourself "What am I contributing to these interactions with men that only lead to sex and nothing more?"

[thatone]

I have all those points...believe it or not. My issue isn't keeping a relationship , it's meeting less men who are all about sex.

 

stop putting so much emphasis on sex. men who only date for sex are really no different than women who are scared of sex.

 

they're both putting undue emphasis on something that's only one facet of a relationship.

 

dating is about figuring people out. seeing what they want more than anything else, and seeing if it matches what you want. think of it as a road you're walking, to find out what's at the end of it.

 

if there's nothing at the end of the road but your vagina, then that's what men are going to see you as, a walking vagina holder. it doesn't matter whether you're having one night stands and trying to catch men with sex, or whether you're abstaining from sex entirely, in both cases you're bargaining with a vagina only, either by giving it away or withholding it.

 

somewhere in the middle is a happy medium that allows you to disregard sex and consider the rest of the person you're sitting across from.

 

the response women who put too much emphasis on sex give to the above suggestion is always "but women are emotional about sex"...

 

which is not an excuse. women who can't control their emotions are flying a huge red flag.

[RedRobin]

Have you ever thought maybe you give off a sexual vibe? Its very easy to say all men want sex, but the thing is if you keep meeting guys like this then you have to ask yourself "What am I contributing to these interactions with men that only lead to sex and nothing more?"

 

I know you are addressing the OP, but I think your question applies to many women.

 

A woman can have as much of a 'sexual vibe' as she wants... the guy doesn't have to act on it. Unless she is dressing suggestively or acting in an overtly sexual manner, he has no excuse. It seems to me, that all it takes for some men is that the woman be attractive, and then it's 'go for the gold' time for him.

 

I don't know if you can imagine how freaking boring that behavior is.

[Woggle]

Another thing is that many men are just sick and tired of the misandrist attitude of many women these days. When we hear constantly from women how much they don't need men and how we are nothing but useless sperm donors it doesn't exactly inspire a desire to create an emotional connection with these women. Why would any self respecting man want to have a relationship with a woman who thinks so little of him?

 

If we are that horrible to live with and that awful why do women even care if all we want is sex? I thought women would like it if we just left them alone except for sex so they can go and live their glorious man free lives.

[joystickd]

I know you are addressing the OP, but I think your question applies to many women.

 

A woman can have as much of a 'sexual vibe' as she wants... the guy doesn't have to act on it. Unless she is dressing suggestively or acting in an overtly sexual manner, he has no excuse. It seems to me, that all it takes for some men is that the woman be attractive, and then it's 'go for the gold' time for him.

 

I don't know if you can imagine how freaking boring that behavior is.

If you act like an open invitation to sex then that is how you will get treated its as simple as that. If you want high quality good character men you have to act like it too. If you got on a whore's uniform and act overtly sexual you will be treated as such. Women have to think about that. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cA83vbeLe9A/SnowK8G7R5I/AAAAAAAACjY/BgliPmg0FGQ/s1600/Axe%2Bto%2Bgrind

 

http://www.randomli.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/girl_cry.png

[mesmerized]

Another thing is that many men are just sick and tired of the misandrist attitude of many women these days. When we hear constantly from women how much they don't need men and how we are nothing but useless sperm donors it doesn't exactly inspire a desire to create an emotional connection with these women. Why would any self respecting man want to have a relationship with a woman who thinks so little of him?

 

If we are that horrible to live with and that awful why do women even care if all we want is sex? I thought women would like it if we just left them alone except for sex so they can go and live their glorious man free lives.

 

Let's not make this thread about your issues, ok? what you are saying is by no means the case with the men I'm talking about.

[Woggle]

Let's not make this thread about your issues, ok? what you are saying is by no means the case with the men I'm talking about.

 

Deep down it really is how many men feel. They won't say it in person to a woman but it is what we talk about amongst ourselves.

[RedRobin]

If you act like an open invitation to sex then that is how you will get treated its as simple as that. If you want high quality good character men you have to act like it too.

 

Duh.

 

Only problem is, I don't want a man who has no self-restraint and can't find a way to pass up the junk food himself. If he has a history of sexual indiscretion, he is not qualified to be my partner.

 

Works both ways.

[joystickd]

Duh.

 

Only problem is, I don't want a man who has no self-restraint and can't find a way to pass up the junk food himself. If he has a history of sexual indiscretion, he is not qualified to be my partner.

 

Works both ways.

How are you going to know about his history. I thought you didn't reveal your history so how would you feel if didn't reveal his.

[jobaba]

Personally, I think a man is most likely to fall for a woman who connects with him beyond the physical - mental, emotional, and spiritual - and gives him a feeling of confidence that he has what it takes to make her happy.

 

Not having sex right away allows time for these deeper layers to open up. And the sex is way better when you're connecting on all those levels. When it's just physical, most men are just trying to get off. He doesn't love the woman, so it's basically an animal act, not one rooted in the higher nature.

 

I actually agree with this. Of the few women I have been gaga in love with in my life, I have only ever touched one of them. The others I got to know over long periods of time and fell in love with their personalities. Predictably, they rejected me.

 

But that is neither here nor there. I really did think I could make those women happy and they gave me every indication that I was right.

 

Except I was wrong.

[Algermas]

By the time men reach a certain age they have usually had their heart stomped on and once a man has his heart shredded many are very reluctant to give it a woman again. They develop a coldness towards women and don't want to get hurt again.

 

As much as I love my wife I know I don't have that innocent love that doesn't hold back that I had my first wife. I hate myself for being this way but sometimes asking a man who had been betrayed to feel that way over a woman is like asking a kid to believe in Santa Claus again. When men are betrayed in many ways it does ruin them for all other women.

 

What makes men fall in love is when we meet a woman who really seems to treat us well and who we can picture as wife or commitment material. It is easy as hell for any decent woman to get laid so it doesn't impress a man therefore sex does not make us fall in love. I do not judge sexual woman but simply saying yes does not scream wife or gf material. It has to go much deeper than that.

 

This. By the time most men get to their mid twenties they've become hardened and cold through experience, both because they've been hurt and because it's what helps you get women. Women, especially young and desirable ones do not respond to friendliness and warmth.

[A O]

Women, especially young and desirable ones do not respond to friendliness and warmth.

We all need to bring more to the table than just warmth, friendliness and niceness alone. We're in trouble if that's all we bring because they are after all, behaviours that we can get from friends or family. There needs to be attraction of some sort, preferably physical in nature, otherwise one's personality. That is the bedrock for every other aspect of ourselves to manifest itself but without it, without some level of attraction - then we're building a potential relationship on a house of cards. Attraction is the glue, the stronger the attraction the stronger the foundation - try and build a relationship on anything other than that and you're on shaky ground.

[Algermas]

We all need to bring more to the table than just warmth, friendliness and niceness alone. We're in trouble if that's all we bring because they are after all, behaviours that we can get from friends or family. There needs to be attraction of some sort, preferably physical in nature, otherwise one's personality. That is the bedrock for every other aspect of ourselves to manifest itself but without it, without some level of attraction - then we're building a potential relationship on a house of cards. Attraction is the glue, the stronger the attraction the stronger the foundation - try and build a relationship on anything other than that and you're on shaky ground.

 

Oh you misunderstand. Im saying those traits will sabotage almost all else. You can have the physique of a Greek god and her vagina will still shrivel up like a prune if you have those personailty traits.

[MrNate 2.0]

Seriously, when is the last time you just filled a man's stomach up?

 

I bet he purred like a kitten.

 

A man never forgets a woman's cooking.

[A O]

Oh you misunderstand. Im saying those traits will sabotage almost all else. You can have the physique of a Greek god and her vagina will still shrivel up like a prune if you have those personailty traits.

If you have attractive physical traits, in fact if they're very attractive traits then you need a major personality issue to nullify those physical attributes. An abundance of friendlessness and warmth, being nice - will add and not subtract to this picture.

[ThaWholigan]

Seriously, when is the last time you just filled a man's stomach up?

 

I bet he purred like a kitten.

 

A man never forgets a woman's cooking.

A lot of girls can't cook nowadays . I can cook WAY better than a lot of girls.

 

Last time a girl cooked for me (on my birthday no less), I had a crush on her . Coincidence?? Doubt it