Why do you think the whole groupie thing is mostly women?

[Bristolius]

Remember seeing black and white video footage where women would clasp their faces and scream bloody murder when the Beatles were present? They looked like they were having a seizure as they were doing it.

 

You don't see women doing that often these days, I guess after generations past, women don't get as excited as they used to, or perhaps after their grandmother's busting a blood vessel by doing so at the red carpet appearance, they gave their further generations fair warning. loL!

 

What was up with that??

 

I remember that clearly enough to remember that they weren't women. They were girls, like this:

Justin Bieber's Crazed Fans - YouTube

[Mme. Chaucer]

Remember seeing black and white video footage where women would clasp their faces and scream bloody murder when the Beatles were present?

 

Those weren't women, mostly - they were teenagers.

 

Now people are fairly jaded with the "pop star" phenomenon, but back then, it was very new and exciting.

[ThaWholigan]

Being a musician with quite a few semi-famous friends, who have actually famous friends, I have seen and heard a lot of stuff go down when it comes to the groupie phenomenon. However, Kaylan is right, I've seen men act like rabid animals around some of the famous girls that we've seen who were either plainly average or worse for wear :laugh:. It used to make me laugh, especially as our band was too cool for school to be caught doing any of that .

 

But it's always funny to see the way women act around the dudes who have a modicum of fame. When we came off stage, women would always come up to our lead singer looking all perky and stuff. Sometimes women would come up to me even and start talking about random stuff, but usually it was because they got palmed off onto me because nobody else in the band wanted to talk to them .

 

And this is just the young, gifted and broke among us with a little bit of notoriety, so I can't imagine what it must be like in the truly most famous and powerful of circles (until I get there ). The Z-list celebrities, the rappers and Grime MCs, the singers and musicians, even the comedians. Check them on a night out and the girls will just gravitate towards them instantly. I met one particularly well-known grime emcee, and a few girls actually chased him down the street and grabbed his hand, saying his name repeatedly. I had never seen anything like that in my life! Those same girls sat in front of me when he starred in a play my Dad wrote, and constantly said his name and screamed everytime he spoke.

 

The guys - well, they are attracted to famous chicks just like girls are attracted to famous guys. I see a lot of guys gravitating towards the z list girls all the time and talking to them and trying to get in there. They are just more understated about it, but I see them. It's pretty equal IMO.

[dasein]

You're full of bologna, though, if you are trying to tell any of us that threads like that from women happen with even a tiny fraction of the regularity that threads like this one, from your bud, do. We're all here, dasein. We all can read. We know how much the women bashing threads are a big feature of the persona of LoveShack's dating forum.

 

1. It's "baloney." 2. These types of threads are relatively uncommon here on the dating board. Anyone can verify that by looking at the threads, it's a simple fact. 3. There are indeed just as many threads generalizing men here, men just take them in a more good natured way and they fade away faster. 4. This is not a woman bashing thread. There are many women who aren't the groupie and starf-cker types out there, but if a man is with a woman who exhibits these traits, he either needs to keep a tight rein or walk away, I speak from personal experience of dating both types of women. It is common female behavior though, and men need to keep an eye on their women accordingly.

 

What you think you "know" in this case is bull. Supposed "woman bashing" threads are in fact, NOT, a "big feature" on the dating forum, and never have been. You are just exercising your typical, narrow perspective and agenda in search of some male posters to potshot. Transparent.

[SteveC80]

Not a women bashing thread just a simple question as to why women hold power and fame in extreme reagrds compared to Men

 

Both genders have our quriks its just sp,ething ponder,like why women by ****ty music just because the singers are good looking

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm no celebrity, but I do notice that the more money I make and the more I dress like a successful business owner, the more hot young fellas looking for a sugar mama are coming at me. They definitely act like groupies - over-adoring, romantic, attentive to my every whim. I've enjoyed a few romps with a couple of them - but I will never support a man financially, so that's as far as it goes.

[Ruby Slippers]

you can't on your salary

Yes, I can.

[Mme. Chaucer]

they had vaginas didn't they?

 

Yes, female people usually have vaginas at any age. You are very smart!

 

But why are we talking about anatomy here?

[dasein]

Wanted to recommend Hemingway's short story, "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber," which deals directly with my position in this thread in its various themes. Those interested can find it in lots of Hemingway anthologies as well as many short story anthologies typical to a HS English class. It is one of the best shorts out there IMO.

[thatone]

Me thinks you are kinda glossing over my points because you already have your mind made up. Meh.

 

Women care about looks as much as men. The only reason they go after fame and money more than men do is because more men have it than women....and more ugly men have these things because men control industries. Usually ugly women have a harder time attaining such status since male dominated industries let women in based on her looks much of the time.

 

If women held the majority of the world power positions, you can bet that dudes would be super affected by this and jumping at a chance to get some life security.

 

Not because they are victims of some oppression, but because they treat their boss like a boyfriend who needs pleasing, those women settle for approval rather than promotions and money. Ambitious men arent looking for approval, they just want the money, and will find leverage to get it or leave.

 

Anyone who has ever managed employees figures this stuff out. Women will break their backs for breadcrumbs as long as you make them feel good about it. Men not so much, unless you pay your gratitude to them in dollars they'll bail on you.

Edited June 18, 2012 by thatone

[Brit]

Not all bands are/were into groupies. Same as in life, not all men are male-whores or all about how many women they can lay. Quite a few do not invite known groupies backstage and actually invite their true fans.

[TheBigQuestion]

Wanted to recommend Hemingway's short story, "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber," which deals directly with my position in this thread in its various themes. Those interested can find it in lots of Hemingway anthologies as well as many short story anthologies typical to a HS English class. It is one of the best shorts out there IMO.

 

I read a synopsis of it. Very interesting... A couple on a big-game safari. A husband who cowers when a lion charges at him. A wife who cheats on him with the safari guide who is braver and more experienced. A tragic, deadly end. I can see some connections with this thread but I can't fully flesh them out in my head. Do elaborate, if you have the time and inclination.

[Necris]

I read a synopsis of it. Very interesting... A couple on a big-game safari. A husband who cowers when a lion charges at him. A wife who cheats on him with the safari guide who is braver and more experienced. A tragic, deadly end. I can see some connections with this thread but I can't fully flesh them out in my head. Do elaborate, if you have the time and inclination.

 

sounds like a hellish safari.

 

you get almost attacked by a lion, your wife is sleeping with the safari guide, you try to impress your wife by being brave and she "accidentally" blows your head off.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Necris

[Necris]

I read a synopsis of it. Very interesting... A couple on a big-game safari. A husband who cowers when a lion charges at him. A wife who cheats on him with the safari guide who is braver and more experienced. A tragic, deadly end. I can see some connections with this thread but I can't fully flesh them out in my head. Do elaborate, if you have the time and inclination.

 

This is straight from wikipedia.

 

A pretty good explaination.

Francis Macomber has lived most of his adult life under the manipulative and domineering influence of Margot. He cannot bring himself to face her and assert his leadership in their marriage, allowing her to step all over him. The text implies that the affair with Wilson is not the first time Margot has cheated on her husband. Macomber, fleeing from the lion, is unimpressive when compared with Wilson, the seasoned hunter and safari-veteran, cool and collected in the face of danger.

 

The loss of Macomber’s manhood in the encounter with the lion mirrors the blow he takes when Margot blatantly cheats on him. This appears to be the last straw, pushing him over the edge. Macomber translates his fury into the intensity of the hunt. He experiences rising confidence and bravery during the hunt, as he seeks to take back the manhood he has lost, or perhaps never had.

 

This transformation is highlighted by various symbols. The story opens with Macomber offering the group “lime juice or lemon squash.” But at the end of the buffalo hunt, he and Wilson toast their success in whiskey. Macomber has gone from a timidly drinking juice, to a hunter, downing more masculine hard liquor.

 

Hemingway also employs animals to carry the symbolism of The Short Happy Life. Macomber is referenced as a rabbit several times, and one of his kills is described as one of “the big cowy things that jump like hares.” His conquests are gentle animals, easily frightened. In contrast, Margot is described as “predatory,” like a lion. The comparison to Macomber’s cowardice during the hunt is clear: Macomber the rabbit runs from his wife, a lion. The gaining of courage involves Macomber feeling hot rage, an experience associated with the lion. Finally, Macomber lies dead, mirroring the posture of the buffalo he has shot. Wilson compliments the dead creature as a “hell of a good bull:” the implication is that Macomber is finally worthy of respect by right of the beast he has conquered.

 

Margot is disturbed by Macomber’s suddenly-gained confidence and assertion of his manhood, feeling her position of dominance threatened. His exhilaration after the buffalo hunt unnerves her. But with Macomber’s transition from boy to man comes death. Hemingway offers his perspective on happiness here: However brief, even a moment of confident happiness is enough to make one’s life worthwhile.

 

It is no coincidence that Margot is the one who kills him: there is an unresolved debate as to whether she murdered Macomber, or accidentally killed him. If she purposefully shoots him, she has preserved her dominance in the relationship, and ensures that she will keep his wealth (presumably the only reason they married in the first place).

 

If the shot is accidental, the moment actually becomes quite tender, as well as tragic. She has just observed her husband become a man, and even though she fears how their relationship will change, she is suddenly invigorated with energy to start afresh. Margaret picks up the gun to defend her husband, trying to save him in the face of danger. For once in their lives, husband and wife are both on the same side, shooting at the same bull. It is tragically ironic, of course, as she kills the man she is trying to save, but such is Hemingway’s commentary on life. The good things we gain are the sweetest, and the most short-lived.

 

A third interpretation of Margot’s shot is that she is trying to regain dominance over her husband by killing the bull herself. If this is the case, she wins back her power, but ironically, she destroys the thing she is trying to control. The bullet accomplishes exactly what she was trying to avoid.

[dasein]

I have read the wiki article on the story, and it doesn't do it justice, not even close, try to find the actual story if you are interested. Multiple interpretations are possible, the characters and their behaviors are not typical "black hat" "white hat" fare, which is what makes for a great story.

 

A search for "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber text" yields a pdf of the full story, which I don't want to link due to forum rules.

[kaylan]

Remember seeing black and white video footage where women would clasp their faces and scream bloody murder when the Beatles were present? They looked like they were having a seizure as they were doing it.

 

You don't see women doing that often these days, I guess after generations past, women don't get as excited as they used to, or perhaps after their grandmother's busting a blood vessel by doing so at the red carpet appearance, they gave their further generations fair warning. loL!

 

What was up with that??

Beatles ey? Id figure womens reactions were also a product of them finally being able to embrace their sexuality in public somewhat. It became acceptable to gush over hot men the way dudes gush over hot chicks. Plus those were the days when people were becoming less prude. We are desensitized to that nowadays. Hot alluring celebs are the norm and no longer this new aprhodisiac.

 

Remember the days when men used to go and see hot women dance and sing to a piano while simultaneously howling like wolves and jizzing their pants? Think the first scene with Jessica Rabbit in the Roger Rabbit movie lol. Its no Beatlemania, but dudes had their moments and still do.

[kaylan]

Not because they are victims of some oppression, but because they treat their boss like a boyfriend who needs pleasing, those women settle for approval rather than promotions and money. Ambitious men arent looking for approval, they just want the money, and will find leverage to get it or leave.

 

Anyone who has ever managed employees figures this stuff out. Women will break their backs for breadcrumbs as long as you make them feel good about it. Men not so much, unless you pay your gratitude to them in dollars they'll bail on you.

Really? Do you really want to get into this? Privlege exists for men (especially those of the majroity) in the professional world and it puts women at a disadvantage. Lets not pretend that the glass ceiling isnt real. Theres been studies examining the difference in hiring rates, call back rates, and salary for various groups of equally qualified people...and by and large its white men who have the highest rates.

 

Its not that everyones actively discriminating against people, its also that some folks are more apt to give a professional helping hand to those who are similar to them. And because white men hold more power positions, its no surprise that they lend support mostly to white men, or to minority groups who assimilate. Why do you think they call Asian Americans the model minority? Because they assimilate to white culture more readily than others.

 

I wish people would stop acting like women have it just as easy as men in the professional world. I have friends who will tell you first hand that a lot of guys in the power positions where they work say dumb crap about women and that the good looking gals seem to move up easier than the more qualified gal. Dudes dont deal with this crap really.

[irc333]

Yes, I can.

 

On the internet, you can be who you want.

[dasein]

Really? Do you really want to get into this? Privlege exists for men (especially those of the majroity) in the professional world and it puts women at a disadvantage. Lets not pretend that the glass ceiling isnt real.

 

Only tangential to the topic, but you couldn't be more wrong here. Companies and professional firms that I have worked for personally, several of them, bend over backwards to attract, hire and promote women and minorities. Schools have been discriminating against white males for over 20 years now to boot. Women and minorities from the right schools who make the grades get extremely preferential treatment in hiring. Then, if they actually hang around and do the hard work, they get promoted in preferential ways also. Have seen it, lived it and worked it for 20+ years now.

 

The entire corporate structure has been reworked in many fundamental ways to accommodate women, many of these changes have been detrimental to profits and competitiveness, but have been done anyway. Such would never have been done if profits and "good ole boy" favoritism were the only motive, but there's only so far you can go with it and stay in business.

 

One firm I worked for, for example, women were shielded from more difficult personalities in the workplace, male -and- female, because they would cry and make scenes when spoken to harshly. Male employees were left to deal with the real sh-theads and take the abuse. Women were out of the office by 8 or so every night, walking around the place, you'd only see men in the offices burning the real midnight oil after 10PM, doing the real work. Half the women would get married and then leave the job entirely, costing the firm hundreds of thousands in training costs. The women who actually remained and did the same sweat level of work got preferential treatment at bonus and promotion time. After 5 or so years, 60% of the men had left, and 90% of the women, so yeah, men ended up getting promoted at higher rates. Go figure.

 

Most people don't know jack about corporate America, yet think they have it all figured out based on whatever ideology they subscribe to, but lack any direct experience whatsoever.

[shayla]

100% in agreement, so long as you afford that same level of freedom/"hands off" attitude to your significant other. If you don't want to be controlled in this manner, you better not ever guilt trip him for staying out late and doing his own thing either.

 

 

My man is a man...a grown assed man that knows the difference between staying out late and staying out all night. And who knows the difference between being out there like a single man and a man that knows what's waiting for him at home. Mmmm hmmm, yep!

 

So, because he is who he is and how he treats me, my hands are off, until he wants them on!

[Feelsgoodman]

One firm I worked for, for example, women were shielded from more difficult personalities in the workplace, male -and- female, because they would cry and make scenes when spoken to harshly. Male employees were left to deal with the real sh-theads and take the abuse. Women were out of the office by 8 or so every night, walking around the place, you'd only see men in the offices burning the real midnight oil after 10PM, doing the real work. Half the women would get married and then leave the job entirely, costing the firm hundreds of thousands in training costs. The women who actually remained and did the same sweat level of work got preferential treatment at bonus and promotion time. After 5 or so years, 60% of the men had left, and 90% of the women, so yeah, men ended up getting promoted at higher rates. Go figure.

But that's just meaningless anecdotal evidence. Real knowledge is contained in textbooks assigned to first year liberal arts students

[TheBigQuestion]

I really do wonder why more people don't post accounts like dasein's.

 

Pretty much every major corporation on the planet has been bending over backwards to attract more women and minorities, often at the expense of just about everything else. There literally isn't any way corporate America could be any more accommodating to women than it is in the present day; they just happen to (perhaps wisely) realize that there is more to life than working, and thus they bow out from their stressful careers sooner than men.

[Ruby Slippers]

On the internet, you can be who you want.

Don't be jealous

[thatone]

Really? Do you really want to get into this? Privlege exists for men (especially those of the majroity) in the professional world and it puts women at a disadvantage. Lets not pretend that the glass ceiling isnt real. Theres been studies examining the difference in hiring rates, call back rates, and salary for various groups of equally qualified people...and by and large its white men who have the highest rates.

 

Its not that everyones actively discriminating against people, its also that some folks are more apt to give a professional helping hand to those who are similar to them. And because white men hold more power positions, its no surprise that they lend support mostly to white men, or to minority groups who assimilate. Why do you think they call Asian Americans the model minority? Because they assimilate to white culture more readily than others.

 

I wish people would stop acting like women have it just as easy as men in the professional world. I have friends who will tell you first hand that a lot of guys in the power positions where they work say dumb crap about women and that the good looking gals seem to move up easier than the more qualified gal. Dudes dont deal with this crap really.

 

I'm not saying discrimination is non existent, I'm saying that it's not in the nature of most women to be competitive in the way that ambitious men are. Note I said ambitious men, a lot of men don't make it very far up the ladder at work either.

 

But the repeatable and common ceiling for women is due to the fact that they are as pleased with perceived status and positive reinforcement as they are with money and power, whereas the equivalent man just wants the money and power he could give a sh*t about whether you tell him he's doing a good job or not.

 

This is why women are paid less. They are often too quick to settle for less money, if their boss is nice to them.

 

My stepdad was a good example, he was paid about 2x in salary and another 1x in 401k matching what his equals were paid the last time he worked for another company. Why? because every time they lined up a lot of work that he had to be involved in he threatened to quit. He'd leave them in a bind for a week or two and when they came crawling back begging him to come back to work he'd demand more money to do it. He pulled this about 3 or 4 times on the same company and they were still offering him more when he finally stayed gone after quitting the last time and going to do the same job on a contract basis.

 

My gay sister's ex gf is an example of the type of women I'm talking about, on the other hand. She's a CPA with about 15-20 years experience working for a chemical company, they send her all over the world to work on inventory control and cost analysis. She's not even making 100k a year, she makes less than some mid level maintenance types do in those plants. Reason? Her boss tells her how great she is and buys her flowers for birthdays and christmas, and she loves working there "because they're so nice".

[Sanman]

Its not that everyones actively discriminating against people, its also that some folks are more apt to give a professional helping hand to those who are similar to them. And because white men hold more power positions, its no surprise that they lend support mostly to white men, or to minority groups who assimilate. Why do you think they call Asian Americans the model minority? Because they assimilate to white culture more readily than others.

 

A total sidenote, but this is not why they refer to Asians as the model minority. Asians are often the least assimilated into white culture. However, Asians tend to be seen as highly educated, quiet and non-threatening to white people, and hard workers. There is also the perception of very little violence in Asian cultures.