SarahRose Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Women are followers by nature. That's why chicks are so into fashion (following latest trends). And that's why there are virtually no self-made female entrepreneurs. Even when it comes to female fashion, most famous designers are men. What does that have to do with groupies? Simple. Women want what they think other women want. If a guy is famous and popular, women automatically want him. And it doesn't just apply to celebrities either. Ever wonder why you get a lot more attention from women when you have a girlfriend, as opposed to when you're single? If a guy has a girlfriend/wife (particularly a cute one), women automatically assume he's popular with the ladies and start giving him attention/competing for him. come on men are every bit a follower too. it is just with gadgets, cars, clothing, hats, hair cuts, and so on. you really need to research on women entrepreneurs as it just isn't true.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Im saying they have a large effect on people in general, and that you only see it more in women because men have most of the money, fame and power. Interesting theory. The contrasting theory is that women simply have a much more automatic and visceral reaction to displays of power. I'm not saying one is definitely correct, but if we analogize what happens in the animal kingdom, the latter theory seems more plausible.
SarahRose Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Interesting theory. The contrasting theory is that women simply have a much more automatic and visceral reaction to displays of power. I'm not saying one is definitely correct, but if we analogize what happens in the animal kingdom, the latter theory seems more plausible. men love power and powerful people too. many idolise certain sport teams and athletes or musicians. men are impressed by fancy cars, houses and so on.
kaylan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Interesting theory. The contrasting theory is that women simply have a much more automatic and visceral reaction to displays of power. I'm not saying one is definitely correct, but if we analogize what happens in the animal kingdom, the latter theory seems more plausible. I wish people would stop trying to compare humans to animals. We are capable of cognition greatly above anything animals are capable of. Our ability to reason puts us in a completely different category.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 men love power and powerful people too. many idolise certain sport teams and athletes or musicians. men are impressed by fancy cars, houses and so on. Sure, but men by and large do not become more interested romantically or sexually when they find out a woman has a high-paying career. For many women, regardless of their own achievements, landing a man who out-earns her by a significant margin is a prerequisite for a relationship, sometimes without her even realizing it. This message board alone is chock-full of women who claim that money is of little importance in their attraction to their significant other, yet they just COINCIDENTALLY tend to shack up with men who earn substantially more than they do.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I wish people would stop trying to compare humans to animals. We are capable of cognition greatly above anything animals are capable of. Our ability to reason puts us in a completely different category. I never claimed that humans are nothing more than their animalistic impulses, but said impulses do play a role in our behavior, sometimes in subtle but significant ways that we don't even realize. There's plenty of solid science supporting this that isn't even of the evolutionary biology variety.
kaylan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Sure, but men by and large do not become more interested romantically or sexually when they find out a woman has a high-paying career. For many women, regardless of their own achievements, landing a man who out-earns her by a significant margin is a prerequisite for a relationship, sometimes without her even realizing it. This message board alone is chock-full of women who claim that money is of little importance in their attraction to their significant other, yet they just COINCIDENTALLY tend to shack up with men who earn substantially more than they do. ^Maybe thats because men out earn women in our society duh.I never claimed that humans are nothing more than their animalistic impulses, but said impulses do play a role in our behavior, sometimes in subtle but significant ways that we don't even realize. There's plenty of solid science supporting this that isn't even of the evolutionary biology variety. Nurture plays a large if not larger role in how we behave. Im sure if you created a society in a bubble, you could easily make men to be materialistic people who only care about marrying up...and then make women the workaholics who only care about looks. Then again, this has already started to happen since women got the ability to get their own cash. Edited June 18, 2012 by kaylan
SarahRose Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Sure, but men by and large do not become more interested romantically or sexually when they find out a woman has a high-paying career. For many women, regardless of their own achievements, landing a man who out-earns her by a significant margin is a prerequisite for a relationship, sometimes without her even realizing it. This message board alone is chock-full of women who claim that money is of little importance in their attraction to their significant other, yet they just COINCIDENTALLY tend to shack up with men who earn substantially more than they do. you are apparently not up to speed on the slews of deadbeat guys especially in their 20s looking for sugar mamas. it would be very hard for me to find a man who earns more than i do unless it was a colleague so that has never been a factor in choosing someone.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 ^Maybe thats because men out earn women in our society duh. That's a really lazy argument. I refuse to get into a wage gap debate with anyone this late at night, but even leaving that whole can of worms unopened, you trying to make this argument fails on so many levels its almost unconscionable. First off, women are no longer dependent on men for their financial survival. They are perfectly capable of building careers that can sustain them and in most cases even afford them lives of relative luxury without the need to snatch a man of higher social or monetary worth. With this in mind, it doesn't change the fact that many women will still seek men with a greater earning potential than themselves, even if their own material wealth is already more than enough to sustain both survival and relative luxury. I'm actually pretty surprised that you're disagreeing with me on this, because I distinctly remember you having a long exchange a few months back with a certain female poster who dates someone with a far more lucrative career than hers who was trying to act as if money and status played no role in her selection. She justified it by saying that in the past, she had dated guys with little money, to which you called BS, and asserted that women screaming "we aren't attracted to money!!!!" from the rooftops rings hollow when so many of them, many LS regulars included, date men who are far wealthier. 1
kaylan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) ^yawn. Like I said. This thread is fail. Its basically dudes trying to push their opinions as fact without even trying to acknowledge that the other side of the argument may be true. You have your mind made up, so I shouldnt waste my time here any longer. And please find my posts you are talking about. If anything Ill vilify a woman whos an obvious gold digger, but Ive never asserted that most women care about money. Quite the opposite...as I many a time have said that if a woman is sexually attracted to a guy, money doesnt mean jack crap. Shell date him and put up with whatever his shortcomings are. Attractive people get away with junk as we all know. Either way I just think weve all been conditioned to give such a crap about money and status. Meh. Edited June 18, 2012 by kaylan
TheBigQuestion Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) ^yawn. Like I said. This thread is fail. Its basically dudes trying to push their opinions as fact without even trying to acknowledge that the other side of the argument may be true. You have your mind made up, so I shouldnt waste my time here any longer. And please find my posts you are talking about. If anything Ill vilify a woman whos an obvious gold digger, but Ive never asserted that most women care about money. Quite the opposite...as I many a time have said that if a woman is sexually attracted to a guy, money doesnt mean jack crap. Shell date him and put up with whatever his shortcomings are. Attractive people get away with junk as we all know. I did acknowledge that what you said had some merit, but you can't throw around empty platitudes like "men make more money than women overall, and that's why they end up with men wealthier than them" and expect to not be called on it. Did I not say that I understood your viewpoint? Did I not acknowledge that your theory on why these things happen may be true? If you're giving up having a discussion with me, then I don't see the need to go through the effort of digging through your posting history. Edited June 18, 2012 by TheBigQuestion
kaylan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Immediately after your "acknowledgment" you went on to pat your opinion on the back as "more plausible". Im not going to waste my time debating this when you have your mind made up. It would be a pointless discussion wouldnt it? PS - What you call empty platitudes was simply a statement based on factual statistics of the real world. Theres many reasons why men out earn women. I never said women didnt have the ability to earn a lot of money. I simply said men have most of the money and this is an inarguable fact. And with the way men and women are conditioned in our society, its no surprise that men growing up wanting to gain lots of it, while women grow up thinking they have to marry to get it. Again, you could condition the genders to do the opposite if you created a bubble society. I still feel nurture is a big part of this. And as I said before, with the way society is always changing, and with how gender roles keep changing, we see more women going after money a lot and dating broke guys....while we also see more dudes acting like shallow pretty boys looking for a girl to use. Edited June 18, 2012 by kaylan
TheBigQuestion Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 PS - What you call empty platitudes was simply a statement based on factual statistics of the real world. Theres many reasons why men out earn women. I never said women didnt have the ability to earn a lot of money. I simply said men have most of the money and this is an inarguable fact. Yes, men do have more wealth. But was your position not based on the premise that women get with guys who out-earn them/throw themselves at famous men because they either need to for survival or because they can't attain the lifestyles they want by their own accord? You can't hold that viewpoint and simultaneously concede that women are perfectly capable of surviving and becoming fabulously wealthy on their own. If they are able to earn and in fact do earn enough, they don't need to become starf*ckers.
kaylan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) My point was that women seeking such a lifestyle coudlnt attain such a lifestyle as easily on their own. Its still a mans world, and things are skewed in our favor when it comes to attaining wealth. And a big part of that is because men in power will judge a women more by her looks than by her own merits. We cant pretend this doesnt happen. Its why female stars in many industries have a short shelf life that only goes as far as their good looks will take them. Hell, their looks often overshadow everything else. Its why Anna Kournikova eclipsed the Williams sisters in popularity despite never winning a goddamn thing in tennis. Youd never see a good looking man being able to do that in mens tennis. Why? Because the media is dominated by men and is fed to men. And we wont give a damn how good looking a dude looks...we care if he wins Edited June 18, 2012 by kaylan
Tzimisce Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Note to guys seeking dating advice: I promise you that I know lots of people in good relationships, married and not, among people of diverse ages. Not even one of them features the man "restricting," "monitoring," "allowing," the woman to do or not do things. These would be the hallmark of a relationship with a man who had serious control issues and who should be quickly evaded. A boyfriend or husband is not a dad, an authority figure, enforcer, or a warden for his girlfriend or wife. Also, a woman "constantly begging" for sex in order to be doled out some affection from a man is in a sick, sick, sick relationship. Just in case you didn't figure these things out for yourselves - which I certainly hope almost all of you have. While some of the stuff was a little over the top I will have to agree with Dasein you simply can't trust people, that's foolish. Girls night out at midnight at a club somewhere doesn't sound like behavior that needs to be in a relationship. You mentioned something about this going both ways and I agree but in my case I have total control over myself and I know I would never cheat, besides the guy equivalent of a girls night out for me consists of me and my friends playing WoW on a friday night or doing a LAN party or watching a movie if I had a GF or a wife I'd be delighted if she joined in. As for the OP the reason why women chase money and success more than men I believe that's more of an instinct since this phenomenon has been occuring throughout history around the globe, many women are attracted to money and power they want that "Alpha male" guy. Now I'm not trying to say all women are like this or men are incapable of this, but men are generally more notorious for doing things like leaving their older, fatter, not so hot but faithful wife for the hot, skinnier, young girl who wants all his money.
TheBigQuestion Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 My point was that women seeking such a lifestyle coudlnt attain such a lifestyle as easily on their own. Its still a mans world, and things are skewed in our favor when it comes to attaining wealth. And a big part of that is because men in power will judge a women more by her looks than by her own merits. We cant pretend this doesnt happen. Its why female stars in many industries have a short shelf life that only goes as far as their good looks will take them. Hell, their looks often overshadow everything else. Its why Anna Kournikova eclipsed the Williams sisters in popularity despite never winning a goddamn thing in tennis. Youd never see a good looking man being able to do that in mens tennis. Why? Because the media is dominated by men and is fed to men. And we wont give a damn how good looking a dude looks...we care if he wins Are you taking into account differences in careers, or even different stages of similar careers? In what world would an "administrative assistant" or a freelance artist make anywhere near the same money as an oncologist? Those are the types of dynamics that tend to play out more frequently than some big bad boy's club telling women they can't become what they want to be. You can go tit-for-tat with this sort of thing. David Beckham has been utterly worthless as a footballer for years but he's still getting loads of fame and publicity because he's a prettyboy. There are plenty of talentless male hacks in pop culture whose fame persists solely because of their good looks. Is it more common with women? Perhaps.
MaxNoob Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 To any man who is not a fool. When was the last time you've been to a nightclub? A woman who is more or less attractive would be approached and hit on repeatedly (and sometimes very persistently) by multiple men throughout the night. The fact that a woman who is in a committed relationship would want to put herself in such an environment in the first place tells you everything you need to know. That it could be the effect of a relationship that has already failed, rather than the cause of the failure. There's no way to prevent guys from hitting on your girl when it happens to her at work, at the grocery store, etc. There's no amount of controlling that can stop that; it's the strength of your relationship and the integrity of the girl that will prevent anything from happening. If the relationship is on shaky ground, you need to worry about this. But for a couple that is truly in love, the competition does not stand a chance, no matter how attractive or rich they are.
Emilia Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Do you not realize how stupid that is, and what a waste of time? And how easy it would be to find articles about men being bad? But why would anyone bother to waste time doing this, whether they're a man or a woman? It proves nothing. Because these men are not capable of functional behaviour. They would be in steady relationships otherwise since they yearn for them so much.
Radu Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Note to guys seeking dating advice: I promise you that I know lots of people in good relationships, married and not, among people of diverse ages. Not even one of them features the man "restricting," "monitoring," "allowing," the woman to do or not do things. These would be the hallmark of a relationship with a man who had serious control issues and who should be quickly evaded. A boyfriend or husband is not a dad, an authority figure, enforcer, or a warden for his girlfriend or wife. Also, a woman "constantly begging" for sex in order to be doled out some affection from a man is in a sick, sick, sick relationship. Just in case you didn't figure these things out for yourselves - which I certainly hope almost all of you have. During HS and college i was good friends with some sport jocks. Looking back on it, not all of them have the reputation to be *******s. It's unbelievable what some of the women who met him would do for his attention and validation. One of these guys liked slightly older women [around 30, he was early 20], so he put a fake wedding ring on his hand and lied about his age in public [he would say he was 26]. It's unbelievable how some of the women who would say that they would never do something like this, changed their tunes. I remember during the last 2yrs of college he had multiple FWB and if they started getting bossy with him, he would drop them immediately. For any guy who reads this, being a jock makes things much easier. But if you also want to experience this : - find someone who is good with a makeover, go with a girl who is a very good hairdresser, you might need to check out a few - find a look that works for you - develop an attitude that works for you, to complement the look - buy a nice wedding band - make up a fake family, and talk about them ... this is how you open conversation, you have to believe in them ... let your eyes water when you speak of how they are - show a tad little sadness when you talk of your wife, but quickly correct yourself in a peppy way - if she is flirting, flirt back, but let her put more effort into it than you - when she says that she is not that kind of girl, never say she is; she just wants you to assume responsability for this - when you do have the 'affair' with her, show guilt, how you will never leave wife ... and when you are done block her from your life - never let her know where you live and buy a 2nd phone [a cheap smartphone] that you use for communication with her. - hell, make up a fake name as well. - oh, and pay with cash if it isn't already obvious. Word of warning though, after you do this ... you will be very very very disgusted with dating/relationships so be carefull. 1
dreamingoftigers Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Sure, but men by and large do not become more interested romantically or sexually when they find out a woman has a high-paying career. For many women, regardless of their own achievements, landing a man who out-earns her by a significant margin is a prerequisite for a relationship, sometimes without her even realizing it. This message board alone is chock-full of women who claim that money is of little importance in their attraction to their significant other, yet they just COINCIDENTALLY tend to shack up with men who earn substantially more than they do. There's also a ton of threads where the guy refuses to work/is underemployed. Quite a spectrum of people and relationships out there. In my case, I have consistently outearned my husband. Money IS of Rather small importance to me. 1
sally4sara Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 To any man who is not a fool. When was the last time you've been to a nightclub? A woman who is more or less attractive would be approached and hit on repeatedly (and sometimes very persistently) by multiple men throughout the night. While he can't legally force you not to do it, he absolutely can - and should - make it a condition of your continued spousal relationship. Say! Have you been married? Do you know how to make a marriage work? My husband doesn't tell me, manipulate me, toss a tantrum to persuade or make ultimatums about what I should or shouldn't do. He would never tell me where I can or can go or who I can or can't go there with. Marriage isn't an ownership type of relationship. It use to be but ewwww, we stopped owning people a while back because its wrong. If either of us wants to go to a club its gravy. Go have fun! We don't have to have the other in tow to monitor our behavior or chase off people who might find us attractive either. See, we want to be with each other. No one is making us stick around. We don't have to watch each others friends like suspicious scared hawks either. If either of us wants to go hang with friends "in da club", the other doesn't have to go along to babysit. We trust. We love. We enjoy our relationship. When you have this, you don't need to control. Y'all some warped folks. I'm exceedingly glad the lot of you who think this way seem to have no luck with relationships. It keeps you less likely to procreate and exposed children to your toxic patterns of thought for them to carry into their own adult relationships. 1
Sugarkane Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 If this jock guy was so fantastic why was he lying and cheating? What a jerk! I didn't know there was really cliched jock types like in American movies. Not all of us women would throw away a long term relationship/ marriage just to be used for a few minutes. You mean nothing to the famous person.
irc333 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Remember seeing black and white video footage where women would clasp their faces and scream bloody murder when the Beatles were present? They looked like they were having a seizure as they were doing it. You don't see women doing that often these days, I guess after generations past, women don't get as excited as they used to, or perhaps after their grandmother's busting a blood vessel by doing so at the red carpet appearance, they gave their further generations fair warning. loL! What was up with that??
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