Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 What would not count as external validation' date=' since to you internal validation is already a variant of external validation?[/quote'] It is not a variant of external validation. External validation is an input for internal validation. Two separate and independent things. Anything coming from another person is inherently external, while your own processing of that information is the internal. Oftentimes, the assessment is one and the same, especially if you agree with the assessment. For example: Hokie, you have a really nice smile That is external validation. I take that feedback, consider the source of validation, my previous assessments of my smile, and a multitude of other factors I personally use to process feedback, and through a series of beeps and blinking lights, determine that I do indeed have a really nice smile. I carry that around as my "internal validation."
d'Arthez Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 It is not a variant of external validation. External validation is an input for internal validation. Two separate and independent things. From a social standpoint, which were are discussing now, external validation is any simply external feedback from other people which affects how we view or think of ourselves. This can come from direct feedback (e.g., words, relationships) or indirect feedback (e.g., media). Which means reading a book by Dostoevsky is a form of external validation by your definition, since processing what is external to me is by your definition input for internal validation.
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 Which means reading a book by Dostoevsky is a form of external validation by your definition' date=' since processing what is external to me is by your definition input for internal validation.[/quote'] Does Dostoevsky affect you socially? If so, then for this discussion, sure.
d'Arthez Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Does Dostoevsky affect you socially? If so, then for this discussion, sure. How can Dostoevsky or any other writer not affect you socially? Does reading not constitute a way of spending one's time? Is spending one's time in any particular fashion not a social statement?
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 How can Dostoevsky or any other writer not affect you socially? Does reading not constitute a way of spending one's time? Is spending one's time in any particular fashion not a social statement? Reading a book doesn't "count" in my "definition," since a book is not a person...unless the messages Dostoevsky conveys in his book affect you socially or affect the way you perceive yourself, then good on you. Also, the way one spending one's time does not appear to come from other people, unless you are being ordered by others to spend your time in a particular manner. The key is that the source of the external stimuli is a person.
d'Arthez Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 The key is that the source of the external stimuli is a person. Internal validation is not some infinite happiness feedback loop.It feeds off who we are as people and how we relate to the world. I.e., it feeds off external feedback (i.e., external validation). I really do not see how this feeds of external validation. Me relating to you, and discussing things in this thread does not provide me any external validation. Even if you agreed or disagreed with me, would not provide me any external validation. If you'd agree, at most you would validate my ideas. If you disagreed with me, you provide me with a reason to question my ideas. I doubt I'd change them in a substantial fashion though. Why would I derive validation of myself as a person, on the basis of you agreeing or not agreeing with me is a bit of a mystery to me.
FitChick Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Be the best 'You' you can be on the outside and you will have one less thing to worry about. Whining that no one likes you because you are fat doesn't solve anything. Either date someone who likes fat people or lose the weight. If you think your big nose is putting people off, find a good plastic surgeon. There are plenty of people who are not conventionally attractive, don't care, and still find spouses. Every time I see a short couple I think of LoveShack! If you aren't someone's "type" there is nothing you can do about it except find someone whose type you are.
snug.bunny Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 I think the key difference, is external validation that is HOLLOW versus external validation that fulfills, internally. Then, there is validation based on hollow actions... A series of one night stands, a string of casual/short lived relationships, can leave one feeling unfilled. People who form/have close knit/long-term bonds with friends, family, partners, etc., creates personal fulfillment and enrichment. As an individual, you'll find yourself feeling fulfilled by one over the other, or a combination of both ----> if it's well balanced. I've had external validation on both sides of the spectrum, both have their own merits. As I've gotten older, I find a sense of peace from within, without the excess external validation. Though, I do miss the days of being preoccupied with external validation, fun times. 1
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 I really do not see how this feeds of external validation. Me relating to you, and discussing things in this thread does not provide me any external validation. Even if you agreed or disagreed with me, would not provide me any external validation. If you'd agree, at most you would validate my ideas. If you disagreed with me, you provide me with a reason to question my ideas. I doubt I'd change them in a substantial fashion though. These are the internal bells and whistles that you use to process what I said. The fact that you did anything with what I said to influence and/or validate your ideas meant you were provided with external feedback.
d'Arthez Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 The fact that you did anything with what I said to influence and/or validate your ideas meant you were provided with external feedback. External feedback, yes. External validation? No.
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 External feedback' date=' yes. External validation? No.[/quote'] Yep. I was careful to use the right word there. Validation, from a social standpoint, furthers one's understanding of their image in a society. I further narrowed this understanding of image, from the beginning of the thread, to physical attractiveness alone. I only broadened with analogies and examples to increase understanding of the premise. My responses to yours in this thread, I would hope, did nothing to affect how you view your own physical attractiveness...so you're right, it's not external validation at all, given the scope of the thread.
d'Arthez Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 My responses to yours in this thread, I would hope, did nothing to affect how you view your own physical attractiveness...so you're right, it's not external validation at all, given the scope of my premise. I have sexy legs.:laugh:
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 I have sexy legs.:laugh: Internal validation at its finest!
AD1980 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 It depends,i think people whove been in relationships before and know a certain segment of the opposite gender at the very least finds you attractive and desirable i dont think its that vital.. For someone like me whos 32 and never been with a women and gotten external valdiation it quite frankly sucks to think you are not attractive to people..external valdiation form a few women would probably break ame out of my shell and help me GREATLY..
Necris Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 External validation is important you can have all the confidence in the world but it doesn't change how attractive you are. In my case I find that women seem to never find me attractive I'm rejected 100% of the time and in the rare case a woman appears to be showing some small amount of interest she is either playing me or I'm misinterpreting. Therefore I can conclude women aren't interested in me and something is probably wrong with me since I am the common denominator in this. Confidence I guess would help a little as you would probably subconciously do things that would make you look more attractive but in the grand scheme of things your actual external appearance is more important. To say external validation isn't important or of lesser importance would be like saying the way the interviewer feels about you and your qualifications for a job isn't important as long as you feel right about it.
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Dating is much like free market, and your "value" is determined by external factors. That is the blunt truth.
ThaWholigan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Dating is much like free market, and your "value" is determined by external factors. That is the blunt truth. And the people who let this affect them negatively will always have problems.
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 And the people who let this affect them negatively will always have problems. Exactly, but there is no sense in pretending that you, yourself determine your value on the dating market.
ThaWholigan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Exactly, but there is no sense in pretending that you, yourself determine your value on the dating market. I would never do so, and I haven't. My only point in this thread was that one shouldn't be defined by external validation. Op seemed to agree, but he seemed intent on proving that one is somewhat delusional if one doesn't adhere to external validation, however I simply believe that external validation should not color how one views themselves, because it is a recipe for personal disaster. In the end, we are all in agreement though. External validation matters and is important in it's own right, but not at the expense of how one views themselves and their attractiveness.
Author USMCHokie Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 I would never do so, and I haven't. My only point in this thread was that one shouldn't be defined by external validation. Op seemed to agree, but he seemed intent on proving that one is somewhat delusional if one doesn't adhere to external validation, however I simply believe that external validation should not color how one views themselves, because it is a recipe for personal disaster. In the end, we are all in agreement though. External validation matters and is important in it's own right, but not at the expense of how one views themselves and their attractiveness. It's not the need to adhere to external validation that I'm arguing, it's the fact that how you view yourself, whether it's colored by external validation or not, has no standing in other people's subjective view of your physical attractiveness. It simply doesn't matter. It might be rainbows and butterflies in your own head whether you feel attractive or not, but in the real world, no one is going to ask you whether you think you're attractive before deciding whether they think you're attractive. When's the last time you, before judging a random woman's physical attractiveness in your mind, approached the woman and asked if she felt attractive...? When you look at a picture of a celebrity, do you have to write them an email and ask if they think they are attractive...? Or can you tell they are physically attractive without that knowledge? The point is, people don't care whether you think you're attractive when they are judging just physical attractiveness...overall attractiveness, certainly, but not physical, which is so very often the benchmark of initial interest.
Author USMCHokie Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 Dating is much like free market, and your "value" is determined by external factors. That is the blunt truth. Yep. Notice how everyone else except the owner of a company decides the worth of that company...
Bristolius Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Dating is much like free market, and your "value" is determined by external factors. That is the blunt truth. It's not even a good analogy, let alone the blunt truth. If you're suggesting that your appearance or personality is like money or goods, it fails immediately because you can't spend it or even give it away; you still have it. Applying the ideas of The Dismal Science to human relationships is pretty sad and cynical. 1
Author USMCHokie Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 It's not even a good analogy, let alone the blunt truth. If you're suggesting that your appearance or personality is like money or goods, it fails immediately because you can't spend it or even give it away; you still have it. No, it doesn't. You misunderstand. It is not the actual money or goods themselves, but the value associated with them. Just because money or goods aren't traded doesn't mean there's no value to them. The market determines the value of any goods, services, or currency, just as society, media, and social culture determine the value of appearance and personality. Ten dollars hidden away in a mayonnaise jar under the bed is worth exactly the same as ten dollars you hand to the Wal-Mart cashier. This sort of negates your requirement that something must be spent, traded, or otherwise relinquished to have value. Lawyered.
Bristolius Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 No, it doesn't. You misunderstand. It is not the actual money or goods themselves, but the value associated with them. Just because money or goods aren't traded doesn't mean there's no value to them. The market determines the value of any goods, services, or currency, just as society, media, and social culture determine the value of appearance and personality. Ten dollars hidden away in a mayonnaise jar under the bed is worth exactly the same as ten dollars you hand to the Wal-Mart cashier. This sort of negates your requirement that something must be spent, traded, or otherwise relinquished to have value. Lawyered. Looks and personality have no quantifiable value. There is no dating market; there is no trading. It's a bad and misleading analogy. 1
Author USMCHokie Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 It's a bad and misleading analogy. Were you once misled...?
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