Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 I would think that my employers didn't know a good thing when they see it. It would not effect my belief in myself at all. Great. But employers are the ones who give promotions, not you. Just like other women are the ones who say yes when you ask them out. Your belief in yourself is ultimately inconsequential in the grand scheme of life in a society...
Badsingularity Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Your belief in yourself is ultimately inconsequential in the grand scheme of life in a society... I disagree. A man who believes in himself will take different actions than a man who does not believe in himself. Impacting his life in society. A mans strong belief in himself can make a woman hot and bothered. Impacting his love life in a positive way. A man who has very negative self beliefs will not. 3
ThaWholigan Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 If you are searching for the reason you are single, then you must be realistic about yourself. Being delusional about your level of attractiveness will only lead to misery, because you will be unable to address/correct the thing that is getting in your way (your looks.) Depends on what you think is delusional and what I think is delusional. I choose not to be miserable that I am single. I can be realistic about the many reasons why I am single, without being miserable about it. That's what I'm alluding to. It's not about being delusional and thinking one is the best thing since sliced bread. It's simply not thinking of myself in an overly negative light. An overly positive light wouldn't suffice much either, as that doesn't give much scope for introspection, but either way, misery doesn't figure in the mix for me. Being realistic about myself doesn't entail unhappiness basically. I've seen posters on this board say that your league is who you can attract. If you can't attract anyone... if no one is attracted to you... then you should be realistic about that. I've seen that. I don't believe in leagues as I have said, but that is as close to my belief as it gets. "Your league is who you attract". Girls have been attracted to me at various stages. I have no qualms over my ability to attract girls. I'm realistic about that. If you also read my first post in this thread, I pointed out that I probably am not quite ready to attract the woman I want. Am I unhappy about that? Absolutely not. Your assertion that you'd rather be happy/delusional suggests that being delusional would make you happy. But if you want to be in a relationship, and aren't, then your delusion is actually preventing you from being happy. If you think me being happy with my life and content with being single is delusional, then yes, I'm delusional. And it's making me rather happy at the moment . In all seriousness, I may want to be in a relationship, but the idea of not being in one doesn't fill me with never-ending misery. The occasional sexual frustration aside, I am perfectly happy on my own as things are.
ThaWholigan Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 I disagree. A man who believes in himself will take different actions than a man who does not believe in himself. Impacting his life in society. A mans strong belief in himself can make a woman hot and bothered. Impacting his love life in a positive way. A man who has very negative self beliefs will not. A man who's self-belief is entirely dictated by external validation is a man who isn't in control of his life in my honest and humble opinion. 4
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 I wonder, why does this concept bother people so much? Like I've said before, the idea of external validation gets a very bad rap on LS...and I feel it's partially the preservation of one's image on LS that creates such strong sentiments against it... I'm actually very curious to see what some of the other heavy hitters on LS think about this subject...
verhrzn Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Like I've said before, the idea of external validation gets a very bad rap on LS...and I feel it's partially the preservation of one's image on LS that creates such strong sentiments against it... I'm actually very curious to see what some of the other heavy hitters on LS think about this subject... It just confuses me. The same posters who do the whole "self-belief"/"internal validation" are the same ones who would yell their heads off if I started a thread about how I hit on a really hot guy and got shot down. You're apparently allowed to have an internal belief that you're attractive, but only so far as it doesn't conflict with other people's opinion of you. 1
ThaWholigan Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Like I've said before, the idea of external validation gets a very bad rap on LS...and I feel it's partially the preservation of one's image on LS that creates such strong sentiments against it... I'm actually very curious to see what some of the other heavy hitters on LS think about this subject... I don't think external validation is bad actually. It can be good at times. And like you say, it's something that possibly one should consider at times. I just think it's healthier not to put so much stock into it and so much importance on it, otherwise you run the risk of making yourself unnecessarily unhappy and negative if you don't get the desired responses. Because honestly, you won't always get that, especially if one is a highly divisive figure. That's why it is important to be largely independent to an extent from external validation, or at least be able to detach from it and view it objectively.
ThaWholigan Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 It just confuses me. The same posters who do the whole "self-belief"/"internal validation" are the same ones who would yell their heads off if I started a thread about how I hit on a really hot guy and got shot down. You're apparently allowed to have an internal belief that you're attractive, but only so far as it doesn't conflict with other people's opinion of you. No they aren't and you know that. Are you putting words into people's mouths??
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 The question is: Is the importance and pervasiveness of external validation in our lives a POSITIVE thing, or negative? Or is it neutral, and means either one to each individual person? With the work analogy, none of those things are my concern. My concern would be, whether I enjoy what I'm doing for work, and whether I'm getting enough corn . And either way, I'm going self-employed anyway - I'd be a terrible employee as I hate being told what to do! Any incentive I get from something will first come from myself. The drive to improve my life is personal, and external validation could never provide me with a gauge. Simply because if what I want to do is to the chagrin of people around me, I would never succeed if I relied on their external validation to drive me on, or if I needed their chastisement for an opposite effect, would be the same as fishing for their validation. Neither is a good place for me to be. So external validation has no incentives that I want. As much as I love people and love making others happy as well as happy when people make me happy, it is no great necessity of mine to be externally validated for the things I do. My own validation is all that matters to me. I agree with your view that using exclusively external validation is no way to formulate a self image, but that isn't what I'm talking about here...I don't condone the fishing of said validation either...but we subconsciously use feedback and stimuli from the outside world to guide our actions, no matter how insignificant the action...it's actually a characteristic of a living organism if I remember correctly...we are capable of responding to external stimuli... And I have to disagree with you in that I feel you have a highly romanticized view of the world and of life...a life free from external validation is literally impossible.
verhrzn Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 No they aren't and you know that. Are you putting words into people's mouths?? Yes they would. They'd slap me down for not being realistic, for having too high of expectations... fancy ways of saying "ugly girls shouldn't hit on hot guys." External validation matters, because it tells you what level of attractive you are, regardless of what you tell yourself.
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 I just think it's healthier not to put so much stock into it and so much importance on it, otherwise you run the risk of making yourself unnecessarily unhappy and negative if you don't get the desired responses. Because honestly, you won't always get that, especially if one is a highly divisive figure. That's why it is important to be largely independent to an extent from external validation, or at least be able to detach from it and view it objectively. Agreed, but on the other hand, to deny its existance and importance is equally as foolish. I understand that true happiness might exist only if one is detached from the need for external validation, but being "truly" happy with yourself isn't going to do sh*t for you in dating if other people think you like a troll. That is my point. 1
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 The question is: Is the importance and pervasiveness of external validation in our lives a POSITIVE thing, or negative? Or is it neutral, and means either one to each individual person? I realized I didn't answer this question in my response. It will be both positive and negative, and it isn't dependent on the person, but the context and situation of the validation itself. In the case of employment, continued hard work at your job rewards you with promotions and higher salary and drives you to continue to work hard...positive validation, in my opinion... The kid that committed suicide when he got bullied by the other kids at school...negative validation, in my opinion... 1
ThaWholigan Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Yes they would. They'd slap me down for not being realistic, for having too high of expectations... fancy ways of saying "ugly girls shouldn't hit on hot guys." External validation matters, because it tells you what level of attractive you are, regardless of what you tell yourself. Well name names then, because I don't believe you. And external validation does matter with regards to interpersonal relationships and managing them - but external validation should never negatively interfere with your relationship with yourself I agree with your view that using exclusively external validation is no way to formulate a self image, but that isn't what I'm talking about here...I don't condone the fishing of said validation either...but we subconsciously use feedback and stimuli from the outside world to guide our actions, no matter how insignificant the action...it's actually a characteristic of a living organism if I remember correctly...we are capable of responding to external stimuli... And I have to disagree with you in that I feel you have a highly romanticized view of the world and of life...a life free from external validation is literally impossible. I do have a romanticized view of life - I freely admit that. That's not to say I'm ignorant of the perils in life, I assure you I'm not. I just don't allow myself to become overly cynical because of it. That would impact my ability to improve as a person and be happy while doing so. That said, I'll repeat what I said above. External validation does matter, I admit that. It matters because it impacts our interpersonal relationships with people. I actually don't disagree with your premise in that it affects your image as a tangible asset. That's pretty accurate. What I am saying is that it shouldn't affect your self-image. That is a recipe for disaster and unhappiness, and a recipe that I don't have any interest in adding to my particular cookbook .
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 And external validation does matter with regards to interpersonal relationships and managing them - but external validation should never negatively interfere with your relationship with yourself Check. We are in agreement. But here, I speak only of your relationships with others...
ThaWholigan Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Agreed, but on the other hand, to deny its existance and importance is equally as foolish. I understand that true happiness might exist only if one is detached from the need for external validation, but being "truly" happy with yourself isn't going to do sh*t for you in dating if other people think you like a troll. That is my point. Well, I don't necessarily disagree entirely with your point, but I'm still dubious about whether being happy with yourself doesn't affect the way people view you. You could be right, but as I said before, I don't completely subscribe to that viewpoint myself . I realized I didn't answer this question in my response. It will be both positive and negative, and it isn't dependent on the person, but the context and situation of the validation itself. In the case of employment, continued hard work at your job rewards you with promotions and higher salary and drives you to continue to work hard...positive validation, in my opinion... The kid that committed suicide when he got bullied by the other kids at school...negative validation, in my opinion... OK. That pretty much answered my question.
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 Well, I don't necessarily disagree entirely with your point, but I'm still dubious about whether being happy with yourself doesn't affect the way people view you. You could be right, but as I said before, I don't completely subscribe to that viewpoint myself . Well, I'm in agreement, based on what you and Badsingularity said earlier, that your self-image will affect your behavior, mannerisms, and non-verbal communication. However, the extent of that effect will vary from person to person and situation to situation. In some cases, this body language can overcome other unfortunalities (definitely not a real word... ), but more often than not, you can put a bow tie on a pig and teach him to swagger, but he's still a pig...
ThaWholigan Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Check. We are in agreement. But here, I speak only of your relationships with others... I already answered that question really. I am dubious about whether your self-image has no effect on the external validation you receive from others. Sure, it's important from an egoistic point of view, if that is what you're saying then I agree. However, this idea that your self-image and your internal validation has no relationship with the external validation you receive is not entirely convincing to me. However, I can see where you are coming from and don't doubt that what you assert could indeed be accurate. Does it matter in my relationship with others? Yeah, probably. Not solely, but additionally.
ThaWholigan Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Well, I'm in agreement, based on what you and Badsingularity said earlier, that your self-image will affect your behavior, mannerisms, and non-verbal communication. However, the extent of that effect will vary from person to person and situation to situation. In some cases, this body language can overcome other unfortunalities (definitely not a real word... ), but more often than not, you can put a bow tie on a pig and teach him to swagger, but he's still a pig... Yeah I would agree. But I bet that pig has his pick of the female pigs in his pen 1
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 But I bet that pig has his pick of the female pigs in his pen A pig in a tuxedo? Brilliant! 1
Badsingularity Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 you can put a bow tie on a pig and teach him to swagger, but he's still a pig... Yes, but he will be a hot studly pig
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 Hokie, you have a really nice smile Yessss! I really like your cat.
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 Yessss! I really like your cat. Ohhh :love::love:
Author USMCHokie Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 Hokie, you have a really nice smile Actually, this is very relevant to the thread. By reading this, I could conclude that I should smile more. It doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with my ego or self-esteem. I'm simply reacting to an external stimulus.
jobaba Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 I'm going play devil's advocate here and to try to get into some deeper philosophical sh*t here on the topic of physical attractiveness and what we at LS love to hate, external validation... My premise is that physical attractiveness is entirely an externally derived characteristic. It doesn't mean sh*t whether you think you're attractive when it comes to dating...it only matters whether those outside you think it. And that is the reason why so many people instinctively look outward for feedback on how attractive they are...because it's the ONLY place you can get it...whether it's words, success in dating, an attractive significant other, etc. When's the last time you looked at a picture (e.g., online dating) and before deciding on attractiveness, you pondered whether that person thought they are attractive...? Point is, it doesn't matter...whether you feel you are attractive is inconsequential to what others think...yet it's peddled here so often that people must believe they are attractive... And please keep in mind that I speak only of physical attractiveness and not overall attractiveness. And the only true judge of that is external validation... Thoughts...? It's not only what people say to you verbally, it's what you can pull physically. I have a female friend who is not particularly attractive, but she has lots of confidence so she dresses pretty slutty, never leaves the house without layers of makeup, and is very aggressive towards men. So, in this case, it's not women are coming up to her on the bus and giving her compliments on how beautiful she is without expecting anything in return. But she is able to pull a lot of men who want her for no strings sex and since she wants that too, she is able to feed her ego, and she does, quite often... In this case, her attitude and confidence have augmented her external validation. And lets face, guys hit on mediocre looking women all the time and call them cute and beautiful. Who's to tell them they are not? As for myself, I lock up every compliment I've ever gotten in my head. I can still remember women from like 15 years ago who called me cute as a friendly gesture. That's how I seldom I get it. Yep. External validation...
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