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Do any of you OM/OW ever call the WS out for what a basketcase he or she is?

LoveTKO

By LoveTKO
in The Other Man / Woman

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LoveTKO Established Member

LoveTKO

Posted
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....or do you believe all the negative stories and diatribes about the shortcomings and faults of their spouses? My case might be a little different because I've played the role of a lover rather than someone who fell in love with a married woman, waiting for that day when she files for divorce. So, I therefore have no qualms about telling her to shut up or change the conversation whenever she has something negative to say about her husband. The issue is that she's not sexually attracted to him, but because of their combined income--both with high paying jobs--it has afforded her the luxury of living a very good life actually. Her husband has done a lot for her over the years it seems. As time goes on I've been pointing out her selfish and manipulative ways to her; it's a good thing that I don't have to live with her on a day to day basis!

 

When I read some of the posts on this forum, however, so many members are making excuses for the WS, buying the all the propaganda hook line and sinker. I mean....do you really think that if things were that bad they would stay in the marriage? Don't live in denial folks. don't get involved in all the details and minutia pertaining to their marriage but look at the big picture and the role that was ascribed to you by the WS.

Edited by LoveTKO
sad puppy Established Member

sad puppy

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When I was in the affair and afterwards, I called him out all the time, you bet I did. I challenged him on his broken ways of rewriting facts and reality, his delusions, and his poor choices. My mm left the marriage, but there's no future for us. As much as I deeply loved him and connected with him, I just couldn't see a real healthy future with him due to the above reasons. His wife will never know but I came at him with both guns blazing and oftentimes on her behalf.

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UpwardForward Established Member

UpwardForward

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D'ya remember the old movie 'Same Time Next Year' w Alan Alda and Ellen Burstyn where they had a chance encounter and then got together the same time and place each year after that .. for two or three decades.

 

Anyway, each time they would get together, they would exchange war stories about their spouses. She got to where she enjoyed hearing, and I think even came to love his wife.

 

But then she wasn't out to break up his marriage either. They were just having side entertainment, while continuing to embrace their marriages.

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LoveTKO Established Member

LoveTKO

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Question? What is the point of calling them out on behalf of anyone if one is going to aid them by remaining in the affair? I am confused by the words not matching the actions. :confused:OW told me she called him out for talking badly about our kids....I find that strange.

 

 

 

You should call them out by stating the obvious, the fact that all they're after is some fun on the side. Call them out by pointing out that the main reason they're besmirching their spouses is to justify the affair. Affairs happen because people want to have their (selfish) needs met, but don't throw someone under the bus is all I'm saying.

sad puppy Established Member

sad puppy

Posted
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Question? What is the point of calling them out on behalf of anyone if one is going to aid them by remaining in the affair? I am confused by the words not matching the actions. :confused:OW told me she called him out for talking badly about our kids....I find that strange.

 

Calling him out on life management issues, sometImes with regards to the marriage, and sometimes not. BSs need to understand that oftentimes there is a whole, real relationship happening which quite frankly, the topic of wife rarely comes up. There is zero focus on wife. He didn't share much, I didn't ask, he referred to her as his "burden". I called him out on some poor choices in his life, sometimes it was on her behalf but the stark reality is, she rarely was a topic for us.

UpwardForward Established Member

UpwardForward

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a whole, real relationship happening

 

To my mind there is no foundation - in order for it to be real.

 

I don't even see the 'new beginning' substance when there is D and remarriage, on the back of an A.

woinlove Established Member

woinlove

Posted
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....or do you believe all the negative stories and diatribes about the shortcomings and faults of their spouses? My case might be a little different because I've played the role of a lover rather than someone who fell in love with a married woman, waiting for that day when she files for divorce. So, I therefore have no qualms about telling her to shut up or change the conversation whenever she has something negative to say about her husband. The issue is that she's not sexually attracted to him, but because of their combined income--both with high paying jobs--it has afforded her the luxury of living a very good life actually. Her husband has done a lot for her over the years it seems. As time goes on I've been pointing out her selfish and manipulative ways to her; it's a good thing that I don't have to live with her on a day to day basis!

 

When I read some of the posts on this forum, however, so many members are making excuses for the WS, buying the all the propaganda hook line and sinker. I mean....do you really think that if things were that bad they would stay in the marriage? Don't live in denial folks. don't get involved in all the details and minutia pertaining to their marriage but look at the big picture and the role that was ascribed to you by the WS.

 

I don't get the bash-the-spouse thing either. We barely talked about the BW and I don't think MM felt comfortable badmouthing his W, as I would have wondered why he wanted to do that with me. I can see wanting to be seen to be the good guy and to justify the affair -- so making the BS look bad works in that way. But I wonder if people don't just feel bad discussing such negative things about another. And, like you, I am rather surprised at the OW/OM who appear to buy the picture painted of the BS, rather than questioning how that portrayal reflects back on the MM/MW.

 

Still, when one is over the A, badmouthing the BS seems rather minor compared to all the other actions and decisions that constitute having an A in the first place.

Edited by woinlove
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mercy Established Member

mercy

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it's a good thing that I don't have to live with her on a day to day basis!

 

 

'Tis a great thing, otherwise it would be you she'd be slaggin' on! :p

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LoveTKO Established Member

LoveTKO

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'Tis a great thing, otherwise it would be you she'd be slaggin' on! :p

 

 

 

Probably!...lol!!

 

I don't get this marriage thing. About half of the married women I meet in my age range all have wandering eyes.

Silly_Girl Established Member

Silly_Girl

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He didn't slag off his wife, but he DID treat her badly at/after the split and I was furious and told him why I felt that way. Our communication was very open and I don't have much of a filter so he often got both barrels!!

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VioletFemme Member

VioletFemme

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"Do any of you OM/OW ever call the WS out for what a basketcase he or she is?"

 

No. But then again, I happen to see myself in a realistic way: imperfect, failable, someone capable of making mistakes. Occassionally a basket case. Most of the time a competent, confident, worthy, kind individual, who wouldn't appreciate being judged based on a slice of my life, especially if that slice of my life was a low point or a mistake or a bad call. A FAILable human...

 

...who doesn't get off on JUDGING others.

 

Maybe, if I were perfect, just like every JUDGEMENTAL person in the world MUST be, to be so free to judge...maybe if I were that perfect, then I'd go around judging folks and "calling them out" for their imperfections.

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LoveTKO Established Member

LoveTKO

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"Do any of you OM/OW ever call the WS out for what a basketcase he or she is?"

 

No. But then again, I happen to see myself in a realistic way: imperfect, failable, someone capable of making mistakes. Occassionally a basket case. Most of the time a competent, confident, worthy, kind individual, who wouldn't appreciate being judged based on a slice of my life, especially if that slice of my life was a low point or a mistake or a bad call. A FAILable human...

 

...who doesn't get off on JUDGING others.

 

Maybe, if I were perfect, just like every JUDGEMENTAL person in the world MUST be, to be so free to judge...maybe if I were that perfect, then I'd go around judging folks and "calling them out" for their imperfections.

 

 

Ouch! Based on your reactions you get judged a lot. It must have been a big slice of your life if this thread resonated with you.

VioletFemme Member

VioletFemme

Posted
Posted
Ouch! Based on your reactions you get judged a lot. It must have been a big slice of your life if this thread resonated with you.

 

Slightly off topic to the original post, but I'll try to bring it back around.

 

This thread resonated with me because I don't like judgemental attitudes, or responses, or ideas. It resonated with me because here at this site, there's a lot of judging going on. OW/OM judging BS, BS judging OW/OM. People who answer threads judging the original posters...and then this, a whole thread dedicated to the idea that we should judge all WS for being basket cases.

 

It's unhelpful. At a place where people are hoping to get help, they get...a BASKETful of judgement instead.

 

The saying that you can't know a person until you walk a mile in their shoes comes to mind. It doesn't just mean--imagine yourself in someone else's life, facing their choices (and then take the opportunity to express how YOU would do it so much better.) It means you'd have to truly live their life experiences to be able to understand them.

 

Every single person is a collection of details and options and choices and chances and experiences...how can you possibly judge another based on your idea of who they are, when you are clueless to 5000 other details that make up that person?

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woinlove Established Member

woinlove

Posted
Posted (edited)
Slightly off topic to the original post, but I'll try to bring it back around.

 

This thread resonated with me because I don't like judgemental attitudes, or responses, or ideas. It resonated with me because here at this site, there's a lot of judging going on. OW/OM judging BS, BS judging OW/OM. People who answer threads judging the original posters...and then this, a whole thread dedicated to the idea that we should judge all WS for being basket cases.

 

It's unhelpful. At a place where people are hoping to get help, they get...a BASKETful of judgement instead.

 

The saying that you can't know a person until you walk a mile in their shoes comes to mind. It doesn't just mean--imagine yourself in someone else's life, facing their choices (and then take the opportunity to express how YOU would do it so much better.) It means you'd have to truly live their life experiences to be able to understand them.

 

Every single person is a collection of details and options and choices and chances and experiences...how can you possibly judge another based on your idea of who they are, when you are clueless to 5000 other details that make up that person?

 

LoveTKO is not saying one should call ALL WS out, he is talking about the MW in his own case and some other cases he reads here where the WS has said negative things about the BS, i.e. when the WS has judged the BS and he is saying one should call them out, rather than just accept the negative talk or have the OW/OM judge the BS too. So, it is rather the opposite of judging - it is calling the WS out for making negative judgements on the BS.

 

I think if you read the OP again, you might see what I am referring to. Maybe it triggered something for you and you jumped to a conclusion that wasn't there?

 

As for being helpful, LoveTKO wants to discuss something relevant to his situation as an OM, which is perfectly fine for this forum. If it is helpful or interesting to others, they can participate in this thread, and otherwise, why not simply skip it? Not all OW/OM have to find exactly the same things helpful.

Edited by woinlove
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LoveTKO Established Member

LoveTKO

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It is not my intention to judge anyone, but when you post on a forum you usually base your point of view on your personal experience. Again, I'm not judging the WS in my case for having an affair but I'm simply calling her out whenever she complains about her husband's anger issues, his intransigence, immature nature, etc. That's the part I take issue with because it's just an embellished version of events to find an excuse to have an affair in my book. I come to his defense all the time, and I don't even know the poor guy.

 

If you're married and want to get freaky with a younger man because your hormones are raging and your hubby doesn't do it for you in that department, I can live with that. Just don't embellish and belittle your spouse, like so many WS' have a tendency of doing. What really pisses me off is that she really doesn't want to be there for him in his time of need, like a spouse is supposed to do. It's becoming a chore for her and she start complaining a bit here and there.

MissBee Established Member

MissBee

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If I felt like he was a basketcase at the time, I wouldn't have gotten involved. I didn't have to play his therapist or listen to him play victim and villainize his gf fortunately. He has issues no doubt, but his brand of cheating, didn't include pulling the pity card, rewriting his life to make it sound horrible etc. He was pretty clear that his relationship was fine in his opinion, he just "loved me too". :rolleyes: That said, he really tried to conduct our relationship as a whole separate entity that wasn't an apparent foil or escape from his "bad" relationship.

 

I wouldn't choose to be in a situation like that again. But if for some reason I took leave of my senses and did that again, I would NOT be able to stomach someone whom I felt was a basket case who lied about their life or who was blatantly BSing and rewriting their reality so I could feel bad for them and be in an A with them. I guess I am not the kind of person who is attracted by that rescuing type scenario and the woe is me stuff. If your marriage and life are horrible...sorry...I wish you well but I don't wish to join you on that road. The MM who compartmentalizes and doesn't say anything bad about his life and tries to hold that he "loves me too" is not more noble and may be worse in some sense....but for me, I was able to handle that more. Twisted as it is, on some level, it seemed like he took more responsibility to say, that's what I did, because I wanted to and because I wanted you too, versus making it seem like he is some poor thing that was "forced" into it because the BS was some meanie who didn't sleep with him, didn't cook for him, yelled at him, stole his money etc. It was bad no matter what but I "respected" (if you can even say that) that he didn't add insult to injury by dragging her name through the mud and dishing blame out to her and every other force besides his own free choice. If you do your dirt...at least own it and he did. It was still dirty and I don't respect him, but I'd think even less of him if he were the other kind.

Edited by MissBee
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LoveTKO Established Member

LoveTKO

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I see what you are saying (writing a narrative of justification I call it) but isn't the affair already throwing them under the bus in a sense?

 

 

Totally....100%.

 

 

Again, my situation isn't predicated on this idea that she's going to leave the H and start a life with me; it's just sex and friendship. It's wrong on all levels. But what I'm trying to convey is that she needs to stop BS ing herself about how bad things are and do something for her own sake. Her husband might be a jerk on occasion, but that's part of being married - you take the good with the bad. This woman has it made tho.

skylarblue Established Member

skylarblue

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No, I wouldn’t call xMM out when he would talk negatively about his W (which he did all the time, never once in 8yrs saying anything positive). A couple of times I tried to defend her, but xMM would get upset so instead I’d just listen and/or agree. I would never have told xMM to stop talking about his W because it was a part of his life. If he needed or wanted to talk about her or situations involving her/them, I was there for him to listen (I still am). It never really bothered me that he did it (not sure I’d feel the same if he was touting positive attributes), but it would surprise me as to how unfair he seemed towards her.

spice4life Established Member

spice4life

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Funny question. My xMM did the exact opposite. He judged me instead, as a justification for staying in his marriage. Not only did he judge me, he had his friends jump in on the action under the guise of trying to "correct" the error of my ways. Now that I'm out of the situation, I am seeing him for who and what he is. I was in a down period in life when I met him and sure, I made some mistakes (which I was already beginning to correct!) and he chose to judge me instead of trying to understand where I was at.

 

Now I see him as nothing more than a cruel selfish man who "kicks" people when they are down. That is exactly what he did to me. I'm not the one who lied about my situation, I'm not the one who was cheating on a spouse while claiming to be "mending," and most importantly, I'm not the one who ripped someone's life apart in front of others to further my own justifications. It was all a HUGE projection on his part and he never had the courage to apologize and come clean about why he did such a thing. I spoke with someone recently and they said he is not self aware enough to "see" that what he did was wrong. It was all my fault in his eyes and couldn't "see" how HIS own actions effected things. I don't think he has the courage to "see" because then, God forbid, he would have to own his own part in all of it. I don't think he can...he's too cowardly.

 

Sorry for the rant. Just wanted to point out that sometimes it's the opposite...lol. Like in my case. :)

beenburned Established Member

beenburned

Posted
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spice,

 

Wow, you really dodged a bullet with that guy! Some people will never take responsibility for their own sh**!:eek:

 

skylarblue,

 

I find your reactions to MM very common. Most OW will do anything to not rock the boat.(even if they totally disagree with MM)

 

On the other hand, how in the world did you manage to put up with 8 years of his b****ing and complaining!!!:lmao::lmao:

 

As to all the other posters who called the MM out on his b***sh**, I commend you, and I'm pleasantly surprised!:)

Got it Established Member

Got it

Posted
Posted
....or do you believe all the negative stories and diatribes about the shortcomings and faults of their spouses? My case might be a little different because I've played the role of a lover rather than someone who fell in love with a married woman, waiting for that day when she files for divorce. So, I therefore have no qualms about telling her to shut up or change the conversation whenever she has something negative to say about her husband. The issue is that she's not sexually attracted to him, but because of their combined income--both with high paying jobs--it has afforded her the luxury of living a very good life actually. Her husband has done a lot for her over the years it seems. As time goes on I've been pointing out her selfish and manipulative ways to her; it's a good thing that I don't have to live with her on a day to day basis!

 

When I read some of the posts on this forum, however, so many members are making excuses for the WS, buying the all the propaganda hook line and sinker. I mean....do you really think that if things were that bad they would stay in the marriage? Don't live in denial folks. don't get involved in all the details and minutia pertaining to their marriage but look at the big picture and the role that was ascribed to you by the WS.

 

A pretty broad brush statement. Did I hold him accountable for his actions and decisions? Sure. Did he blame his ex wife for them? No. Did he hold her accountable for her actions? Sure. Did/does he hold me accountable for me actions? You better believe it.

 

But sure, he has heard "that is your baby to rock" a time or two.

Silly_Girl Established Member

Silly_Girl

Posted
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I learned that you shouldn't put much stock at all in what a mm/mw tells you about their spouse. It's highly likely they are lying their asses off. In fact in my case, he was a pathological liar about pretty much every aspect of his life not just his marriage or his wife but everything. So........what I know now and what I didn't know then is that calling a liar out, makes not much difference, it's just an excuse for them to tell more lies. :D

 

Instead of focusing on the lies they tell to justify and rationalize, one should be asking themselves how gullible you are to believe them. An affair is a pretty good indicator that they aren't all about honesty and trustworthiness.

 

I think this post has its place in this thread but likewise my experience was the opposite and having subsequently become an official couple with the man I had an affair with, I found no evidence he'd lied and the more friends and family I got to know the more clear it became that the marriage was probably actually even slightly worse than I'd been able to surmise and he really had done his best in the early years to no avail.

 

From what I read and hear it seems like maybe LG's experience and mine fall at either extreme and *most* scenarios fall somewhere between the two.

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nofool4u Established Member

nofool4u

Posted
Posted
....or do you believe all the negative stories and diatribes about the shortcomings and faults of their spouses?

 

Reading most of the stories on here, I'd have to go with the above as their answer.

 

 

The issue is that she's not sexually attracted to him, but because of their combined income--both with high paying jobs--it has afforded her the luxury of living a very good life actually.

 

Thats a load of bunk. If she has a high paying job, then she still can have the life of luxury.

 

 

Her husband has done a lot for her over the years it seems. As time goes on I've been pointing out her selfish and manipulative ways to her

 

Yet you are still with her. So why do YOU stay with someone selfish and manipulative? Easy sex?

 

 

it's a good thing that I don't have to live with her on a day to day basis!

 

But you'll gladly help her disrespect the man that does have to live with her on a daily basis, just as long as you are getting your gratification?

 

 

When I read some of the posts on this forum, however, so many members are making excuses for the WS, buying the all the propaganda hook line and sinker. I mean....do you really think that if things were that bad they would stay in the marriage? Don't live in denial folks. don't get involved in all the details and minutia pertaining to their marriage but look at the big picture and the role that was ascribed to you by the WS.

 

I absolutely agree with the above paragraph. So are you still with her?

nofool4u Established Member

nofool4u

Posted
Posted
Question? What is the point of calling them out on behalf of anyone if one is going to aid them by remaining in the affair? I am confused by the words not matching the actions.

 

This was also the point I was getting at. Well said.

nofool4u Established Member

nofool4u

Posted
Posted
It is not my intention to judge anyone, but when you post on a forum you usually base your point of view on your personal experience. Again, I'm not judging the WS in my case for having an affair but I'm simply calling her out whenever she complains about her husband's anger issues, his intransigence, immature nature, etc.

 

Uh, that IS judging her. I know you don't want to call that, but it is what it is.

 

But hey, I'm not going to protest a WS getting her crap "called out" on "judged" or whatever.

 

If you're married and want to get freaky with a younger man because your hormones are raging and your hubby doesn't do it for you in that department, I can live with that. Just don't embellish and belittle your spouse, like so many WS' have a tendency of doing.

 

While I agree with the last sentence above, I have to ask, what?

 

So its ok to disrespect the spouse, betray and cheat on them(also putting them at risk for STD's), but belittling them is a real problem?

 

The problem is what they are doing to their spouse, not the bulls** lies they tell just to get someone to more readily get in their pants.

 

 

What really pisses me off is that she really doesn't want to be there for him in his time of need, like a spouse is supposed to do.

 

You are helping her betray him and stealing time away from the marriage. Why do you care? My thinking is, you really don't. You just want the sex and don't like hearing her talk much.

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