Are you dating a Hunter?

[123321]

Men don't commit for a bazillion reasons. Rarely or never does it have anything to do with the woman.

 

Is commit code for marry in your vocabulary by any chance?

[boytoy]

BS. It's never been easier for men to get NSA sex than they do today.

 

Men don't commit for a bazillion reasons. Rarely or never does it have anything to do with the woman.

 

To the extent that women don't fish out a man's intentions before having sex with him is her own fault.

 

If he lies about his intentions or strings her along solely for the purpose of getting sex, then he's a jerk.... not a poor, misunderstood guy just looking for the 'right' girl to commit to.

 

BS on your BS. Its also never been the case that men and women go so long before getting married. The issue just didn't come up very often back in the old days, because everyone would be married by their early twenties.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Every single time I didn't commit, it was because I wanted a better girl. Every time a friend of mine didn't commit, it was the same. I have almost never seen a man not commit without a reason; it ALWAYS has something to do with the girl. Now, you may not think it a good reason, or you may hate to hear it, but its there. Very often the reason is that the girl is not hot enough, and the man (rightly or wrongly) believes he deserves hotter. I know it may be hard for your ego to take the truth: most men who didn't commit to you didn't think you were hot enough to commit to. Sorry to be the one to break this truth to you.

 

I've strung along girls back in the day. Upwards of maybe 10 of them. One for as long as a year. Why did I do it? Well, I was young and selfish for one. But mainly, I thought I deserved a better girl --- hotter, funnier, smarter, etc. The only reason I spent time with these girls I had no intention of committing to was because the alternative --- celibacy --- sucked. I felt backed into a corner: either I sleep with these girls I don't like that much, or I have to suffer the psychological pain of not getting laid, which to me was substantial. In other words, I did this morally reprehensible thing for the same reason that starving men steal food.

 

On a related note, I hate how women on this board always go for any explanation that vilifies the man, no matter how ridiculous, to save their egos. It is incredibly transparent and predictable. This is precisely such a situation.

[RedRobin]

A woman with low self-esteem or who is desperate for a relationship will be VERY easy to "lead on".

 

Sure, but it still doesn't make it right or acceptable for someone to do this... man or woman.

 

I'd call them a jerk no matter which gender it was. Actually, I have called a couple of women here 'jerks' for playing with men too.

[RedRobin]

BS on your BS. Its also never been the case that men and women go so long before getting married. The issue just didn't come up very often back in the old days, because everyone would be married by their early twenties.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. Every single time I didn't commit, it was because I wanted a better girl. Every time a friend of mine didn't commit, it was the same. I have almost never seen a man not commit without a reason; it ALWAYS has something to do with the girl. Now, you may not think it a good reason, or you may hate to hear it, but its there. Very often the reason is that the girl is not hot enough, and the man (rightly or wrongly) believes he deserves hotter. I know it may be hard for your ego to take the truth: most men who didn't commit to you didn't think you were hot enough to commit to. Sorry to be the one to break this truth to you.

 

I've strung along girls back in the day. Upwards of maybe 10 of them. One for as long as a year. Why did I do it? Well, I was young and selfish for one. But mainly, I thought I deserved a better girl --- hotter, funnier, smarter, etc. The only reason I spent time with these girls I had no intention of committing to was because the alternative --- celibacy --- sucked. I felt backed into a corner: either I sleep with these girls I don't like that much, or I have to suffer the psychological pain of not getting laid, which to me was substantial. In other words, I did this morally reprehensible thing for the same reason that starving men steal food.

 

On a related note, I hate how women on this board always go for any explanation that vilifies the man, no matter how ridiculous, to save their egos. It is incredibly transparent and predictable. This is precisely such a situation.

 

I meet men like you all the time. The ones who mistreated other women before me, but now want to 'commit' to me.

 

I can spot them a mile away. Men with your character are no prize. I really could care less about trying to get a man like you to 'commit'... because you have no concept of it... and wouldn't be faithful even if you did.

 

So, big deal.

 

I love it when men or women equate 'celibacy' to starving. It isn't. I also think it is funny that they expect the person of their 'choice' to have shown discretion and ability to delay gratification, when they can't do it themselves.

 

No ego issues here at all. I'm responsible for my decisions and thoroughly believe the saying... be the person you want to attract. Liars don't get far with me at all. A couple of weeks of dating is about all it takes to sift you out.

Edited June 12, 2012 by RedRobin

[boytoy]

I meet men like you all the time. The ones who mistreated other women before me, but now want to 'commit' to me.

 

I can spot them a mile away. Men with your character are no prize. I really could care less about trying to get a man like you to 'commit'... because you have no concept of it... and wouldn't be faithful even if you did.

 

So, big deal.

 

There you go again. Twisting facts to appease your fragile ego. Its not that I wont commit, its that I won't commit to MOST WOMEN because most women are not what I'm looking for. Even though I strung along all those women, I have been in long term and satisfying committed relationships with women who lived up to my standards. During those relationships where I was content with my girlfriend, I never cheated, never had any interest in other women, and I treated my girlfriends with all kindness and love I had in my heart, and made them happy (and they made me happy).

 

And that's precisely my point. When a man won't commit, its because he doesn't want to commit TO YOU!!! It's those last two words that you are shutting your ears out to, because you can't bear the thought that a man doesn't think you are good enough for him. Oh no, you are a perfect little princess, so it couldn't possibly have anything to do with you!!! It must be, oh please please let it be, solely the man's problem!! You will grasp at any explanation you can find to avoid facing the fact that you are not every man's dream, and some men simply view you as a stepping stone to another woman who they will gladly give their heart to.

Edited June 12, 2012 by boytoy

[Emilia]

Reading that article felt a little like reading about myself I like setting up last minute dates after a long day and I do enjoy keeping the man in my flat for the date, more specifically in my bedroom . That doesn't mean I don't take them seriously, one of those men I loved very very much.

 

When I meet someone I fancy I don't know whether I want to commit. I often end up not committing because I meet more guys that are so-so than those that are great (by definition great ones are rare unfortunately). I don't sleep with those I don't find physically very appealing so it's not the hotness factor but it's the myriad other things that come out during the dating process.

 

What I'm saying is that it's the same for both sexes. When you meet someone (as long as you don't compromise on looks too much) you have no way of knowing whether you will commit down the line, it's a little ingenious by women to blame men for this because we do the same. I never worry that I get dumped after sex as in my epxerience men keep coming back when they enjoy your company, it's usually the matter of not meshing long term. Sometimes my fault, sometimes theirs, sometimes it's compatibility.

 

There are extreme cases of someone stringing you along for a long time even if they are bored with you but to tell you the truth, the signs must be there for you to pick up. Not so much those mentioned in the article but even just the lack of enthusiasm and connection. If things cool too much after 3 months it's time to move on.

[Woggle]

If women want more men to commit then they should be worth committing to. Many men these days simply do not want to deal with the drama but he still have sexual needs so this is the ideal situation unless a really great woman comes along.

 

I do think that a man should be honest about his intentions though.

[Emilia]

I do think that a man should be honest about his intentions though.

 

You would be surprised how few of them lie. But then you have to be prepared to hear the truth as well

[Woggle]

You would be surprised how few of them lie. But then you have to be prepared to hear the truth as well

 

I know but even if a man flat out says he just wants to mess around some women take that as a challenge while wanting nothing to do with the men that do want to commit.

[Emilia]

I know but even if a man flat out says he just wants to mess around some women take that as a challenge while wanting nothing to do with the men that do want to commit.

 

You are absolutely right. I think the truth is both sexes are equally useless when they meet someone they really like. Men chase her hoping to bed her, women keep making excuses for him for his bad behaviour. We all have to take responsibility and sometimes walk away - rather than just complain and call the other party names.

[Ninjainpajamas]

A hunter is simply a man that has options..nothing mystifying or incredibly gifted or anything special, simply knows how to use his attributes or recognizes them to scrounge up a few women that would be interested in him at any given time...the more attractive the qualities he has or attains the more desireable he becomes to women and the more successful he is.

 

A man with options doesn't have to settle on the first thing that comes by, nor does he have to commit...why? Because women seem to be more interested in whether the man appears to be a good package/catch rather than what he is willing to invest in....women see the potential, men already have drew a line in the sand and are either looking for something serious or not...however they're not going to tell you that.

 

Most men aspire to be hunters, whether they'll admit it or not...how many guys don't want to be hot professional athletes who pull money as easy as women (as concidentally women seem to be attracted to both) however I don't think it's coincidence the men that aren't as successful with women are usually much more eager to settle down where as the men who are highly successful with women are less eager and willing to look for the perfect woman or at least someone he is genuinely interested in before commiting.

 

Women like to blame men for having options and not commiting to them, even If they know these men aren't willing to commit, they'd rather work at it and fool themselves into thinking that he'd choose her at some point even though a man knows early on whether you're good for sex, a relationship, or marriage, it doesn't take him a long time to figure it out and his demeanor will be reflected by how he sees you. It's as if they are frustrated with the fact of not being able to "win" over a man who does not want to commit and furthermore ridiculously invest determine their selfworth and value based on whether or not this man chooses her.

 

The signs are always present however, although women take no responsiblity in saving themselves from this equation. They see when a man is giving them crumbs or not fully invested, they recognzie when they aren't a priority and aren't being given the same amount of time and attention as they are investing. So who's fault it is at some point? when do women take responsiblity for their own denial? their own insecurities? and their own illusions? the men take the blame, and even though women know the truth once again they fail to have the courage to admit the truth to themselves and walk away...so instead they fight on, "hoping" at some point things will change.

 

And what are these women looking for? any small, tiny shred of evidence that this guy may be microscopically changing in favor of a relationship...maybe by some miracle things will change tomorrow. I'll never understand how women can remain so loyal to so little.

 

But god forbid anyone look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers at other men or women.

[LittlePrince]

All women want to bed hunters and raise their pups. I blame Lord of the Rings and Elder Scrolls.

[RedRobin]

There you go again. Twisting facts to appease your fragile ego. Its not that I wont commit, its that I won't commit to MOST WOMEN because most women are not what I'm looking for. Even though I strung along all those women, I have been in long term and satisfying committed relationships with women who lived up to my standards. During those relationships where I was content with my girlfriend, I never cheated, never had any interest in other women, and I treated my girlfriends with all kindness and love I had in my heart, and made them happy (and they made me happy).

 

And that's precisely my point. When a man won't commit, its because he doesn't want to commit TO YOU!!! It's those last two words that you are shutting your ears out to, because you can't bear the thought that a man doesn't think you are good enough for him. Oh no, you are a perfect little princess, so it couldn't possibly have anything to do with you!!! It must be, oh please please let it be, solely the man's problem!! You will grasp at any explanation you can find to avoid facing the fact that you are not every man's dream, and some men simply view you as a stepping stone to another woman who they will gladly give their heart to.

 

ok, well I see you have justifications a mile thick to keep lying to people. No sense arguing with people like you.

 

Easier to just avoid.

[RedRobin]

A hunter is simply a man that has options..nothing mystifying or incredibly gifted or anything special, simply knows how to use his attributes or recognizes them to scrounge up a few women that would be interested in him at any given time...the more attractive the qualities he has or attains the more desireable he becomes to women and the more successful he is.

 

A man with options doesn't have to settle on the first thing that comes by, nor does he have to commit...why? Because women seem to be more interested in whether the man appears to be a good package/catch rather than what he is willing to invest in....women see the potential, men already have drew a line in the sand and are either looking for something serious or not...however they're not going to tell you that.

 

Most men aspire to be hunters, whether they'll admit it or not...how many guys don't want to be hot professional athletes who pull money as easy as women (as concidentally women seem to be attracted to both) however I don't think it's coincidence the men that aren't as successful with women are usually much more eager to settle down where as the men who are highly successful with women are less eager and willing to look for the perfect woman or at least someone he is genuinely interested in before commiting.

 

Women like to blame men for having options and not commiting to them, even If they know these men aren't willing to commit, they'd rather work at it and fool themselves into thinking that he'd choose her at some point even though a man knows early on whether you're good for sex, a relationship, or marriage, it doesn't take him a long time to figure it out and his demeanor will be reflected by how he sees you. It's as if they are frustrated with the fact of not being able to "win" over a man who does not want to commit and furthermore ridiculously invest determine their selfworth and value based on whether or not this man chooses her.

 

The signs are always present however, although women take no responsiblity in saving themselves from this equation. They see when a man is giving them crumbs or not fully invested, they recognzie when they aren't a priority and aren't being given the same amount of time and attention as they are investing. So who's fault it is at some point? when do women take responsiblity for their own denial? their own insecurities? and their own illusions? the men take the blame, and even though women know the truth once again they fail to have the courage to admit the truth to themselves and walk away...so instead they fight on, "hoping" at some point things will change.

 

And what are these women looking for? any small, tiny shred of evidence that this guy may be microscopically changing in favor of a relationship...maybe by some miracle things will change tomorrow. I'll never understand how women can remain so loyal to so little.

 

But god forbid anyone look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers at other men or women.

 

 

yea, yea...

 

I know plenty of men who have 'options'... but actually find alot of value in commitment. No, they didn't settle for the first thing that came along, but they did settle down in a reasonable period of time and without sifting through scores of women either... they did it without using any of them or lying to them either.

 

Men who prop their egos up on how many women they bed or options they have have a really hard time understanding this.

 

They don't know what a loving relationship is, nor do they care. "love" isn't the end goal. To them, relationships are a nasty little power play... or worse... a way they can get out some bizarre hatred of women by getting them to fall for them.

 

I really don't know why some women go for this... but I do think this behavior where people draft contorted, BS scenarios to keep getting a piece of *ss with minimal emotional connection is pretty evil. Especially these days when there are plenty of women who claim to not be looking for relationships.

 

So, keep patting yourself on the back Ninja. I think it is thoroughly disgusting.

[RedRobin]

I know but even if a man flat out says he just wants to mess around some women take that as a challenge while wanting nothing to do with the men that do want to commit.

 

What some women don't understand is that they don't have to say it.

 

The guys who are pressing for sex ASAP are already 'saying' it.

[Ninjainpajamas]

yea, yea...

 

I know plenty of men who have 'options'... but actually find alot of value in commitment. No, they didn't settle for the first thing that came along, but they did settle down in a reasonable period of time and without sifting through scores of women either... they did it without using any of them or lying to them either.

 

Men who prop their egos up on how many women they bed or options they have have a really hard time understanding this.

 

They don't know what a loving relationship is, nor do they care. "love" isn't the end goal. To them, relationships are a nasty little power play... or worse... a way they can get out some bizarre hatred of women by getting them to fall for them.

 

I really don't know why some women go for this... but I do think this behavior where people draft contorted, BS scenarios to keep getting a piece of *ss with minimal emotional connection is pretty evil. Especially these days when there are plenty of women who claim to not be looking for relationships.

 

So, keep patting yourself on the back Ninja. I think it is thoroughly disgusting.

 

Wow, you seem to be in a bad mood in this thread. So I'll just let that one go since you're assuming I have some kind of agenda to brag or show off, my goal is to educate people on the reality of things by having experience, some of it personal, some of it from what I seen but not knowing how I speak when I talking directly about myself or how I feel then I guess it's easy to see how people can get confused and feel that I'm defending a point or making a point based on my own personal emotions...I'm a very expressive person emotionally as well, If you knew me at all you'd realize how objective I'm being in this post and speaking in general terms.

 

I think all men are human beings and get satisfaction out of emotional connections and relationships, but some are more emotional than others. It comes off extremely bitter when women express an attitude that they've been rejected and assume these men have no hearts or emotions, you think they don't care about their family or mothers, or even children even If they have them....do you see the majority of men as mere robots?

 

Many men just simply distance themselves from that emotinal investment, they gaurd and hold up walls while most women let it go freely and are trusting. The prevent and withhold themselves from going there and sometiems it's the lack of maturity and self awareness that keep men from actually feeling...men are taught and expected to be tough and reslient to a degree, even the metrosexuals.

 

Sometimes these men come out this way because they are bitter...you ever seen a jaded man paint the town red because he had his heart broken? well look around you, because there are plenty, like women, men can be protective and guarded from real emotions, and they prefer to stay in control and keep everything on the outside...some men are afraid to trust and invest, some men are just selfish and could care less about other people because they'd rather satisfy their sexual needs.

 

You seem to be taking this post quite personal, maybe it struck a nerve because you seem to be attacking just about everyone on this page.

[RedRobin]

Wow, you seem to be in a bad mood in this thread. So I'll just let that one go since you're assuming I have some kind of agenda to brag or show off, my goal is to educate people on the reality of things by having experience, some of it personal, some of it from what I seen but not knowing how I speak when I talking directly about myself or how I feel then I guess it's easy to see how people can get confused and feel that I'm defending a point or making a point based on my own personal emotions...I'm a very expressive person emotionally as well, If you knew me at all you'd realize how objective I'm being in this post and speaking in general terms.

 

I think all men are human beings and get satisfaction out of emotional connections and relationships, but some are more emotional than others. It comes off extremely bitter when women express an attitude that they've been rejected and assume these men have no hearts or emotions, you think they don't care about their family or mothers, or even children even If they have them....do you see the majority of men as mere robots?

 

Many men just simply distance themselves from that emotinal investment, they gaurd and hold up walls while most women let it go freely and are trusting. The prevent and withhold themselves from going there and sometiems it's the lack of maturity and self awareness that keep men from actually feeling...men are taught and expected to be tough and reslient to a degree, even the metrosexuals.

 

Sometimes these men come out this way because they are bitter...you ever seen a jaded man paint the town red because he had his heart broken? well look around you, because there are plenty, like women, men can be protective and guarded from real emotions, and they prefer to stay in control and keep everything on the outside...some men are afraid to trust and invest, some men are just selfish and could care less about other people because they'd rather satisfy their sexual needs.

 

You seem to be taking this post quite personal, maybe it struck a nerve because you seem to be attacking just about everyone on this page.

 

See... there is the rub. Women know that men are guarded with their emotions, and that is what draws them into these BS scenarios.

 

Regarding feelings... Yes, I'm quite aware at how easily some people can compartmentalize their lives and emotions. This is another red flag to me. I prefer to be around people whose personalities are integrated and authentic.

 

Anyway, I'm not taking the thread personal. What I take personally is this idea that it is ok to use other human beings. THAT is what I'm pushing back against.

 

If someone knows the other person wants a relationship, and the one who doesn't just strings them along... no.... that is heinous. I don't like it when I see either men or women use someone that way. Yes, there are women here who do it too. I've called them out on it a number of times.

 

Do I think women share the responsibility for staying away from men who do this? Sure, but then don't blame them when they have walls of their own...

[Ninjainpajamas]

See... there is the rub. Women know that men are guarded with their emotions, and that is what draws them into these BS scenarios.

 

Regarding feelings... Yes, I'm quite aware at how easily some people can compartmentalize their lives and emotions. This is another red flag to me. I prefer to be around people whose personalities are integrated and authentic.

 

Anyway, I'm not taking the thread personal. What I take personally is this idea that it is ok to use other human beings. THAT is what I'm pushing back against.

 

If someone knows the other person wants a relationship, and the one who doesn't just strings them along... no.... that is heinous. I don't like it when I see either men or women use someone that way. Yes, there are women here who do it too. I've called them out on it a number of times.

 

Do I think women share the responsibility for staying away from men who do this? Sure, but then don't blame them when they have walls of their own...

 

Not all men are guarded with their emotions because they intend to or try to be, some men are unable or unsure how to reach that emotional capacity. A lot of men that I've seen take advantage of women didn't see it that way, they merely act out in a way they don't understand and guess what? women enable the behavior, even after the fact that they see the truth.

 

Personally I think my life is the responsibility of my own, I'm the one in control it, not anyone else...It's not anyones elses responsiblity to defend me, protect me, save me especially from myself, I need to be pro active and figuring out things for myself using common sense and my gut feeling/intuition to guide me along the way. I don't expect a thief to tell me he is going to steal from me or a someone that intends to use me their obligation to inform me, the real world doesn't work that way. Does that mean the world should work that way? of course not...does that support men/women who use people? of course not...but you can't change or control other people, so you can only take responsibility for yourself. And that's how I live my life, I don't point at others, blame the gods, the weather, bad luck, I always ask myself what I did wrong, what didn't I see, what did I do to fail myself...regardless of the fact of whether someone took advantage or fooled me, I feel it's my responsibility to learn from that situation and I believe people find themselves in certain situations for a reason...I've seen a lot of women who complain, b!tch, moan about unavailable men go from one douchebag to another...so who's fault is it? who's the common denominator in this equation? Or do you merely just expect the world and reality to change for you, to fit "what's right".

 

So from my perspective I really don't see your point...you're merely expecting for people to stop being people...well good luck with that and scorning every man to you that you feel represents that or in any way shape or form tries to explain or defend it. Chances are you're going to jump to conclusions, just like you did with me.

 

You can play the victim all you want in this world and have these expectations but you're the only that can change the dynamic. You want to always blame the horse for pulling the cart, when the cart is the one that is attaching it to the horse. These women WANT to win these men, they don't care whether he's said he's just interseted in sex, you listen far too much to the lies of women, defending themselves and pretending their complete idiots and didn't know any better...you'd be surprised how many do just don't care beacuse they got this idea in their head, your argument is completely biased...regardless of whether you say it isn't, it's coming off completely so. You've in no way balanced out your argument.

[RedRobin]

Not all men are guarded with their emotions because they intend to or try to be, some men are unable or unsure how to reach that emotional capacity. A lot of men that I've seen take advantage of women didn't see it that way, they merely act out in a way they don't understand and guess what? women enable the behavior, even after the fact that they see the truth.

 

Personally I think my life is the responsibility of my own, I'm the one in control it, not anyone else...It's not anyones elses responsiblity to defend me, protect me, save me especially from myself, I need to be pro active and figuring out things for myself using common sense and my gut feeling/intuition to guide me along the way. I don't expect a thief to tell me he is going to steal from me or a someone that intends to use me their obligation to inform me, the real world doesn't work that way. Does that mean the world should work that way? of course not...does that support men/women who use people? of course not...but you can't change or control other people, so you can only take responsibility for yourself. And that's how I live my life, I don't point at others, blame the gods, the weather, bad luck, I always ask myself what I did wrong, what didn't I see, what did I do to fail myself...regardless of the fact of whether someone took advantage or fooled me, I feel it's my responsibility to learn from that situation and I believe people find themselves in certain situations for a reason...I've seen a lot of women who complain, b!tch, moan about unavailable men go from one douchebag to another...so who's fault is it? who's the common denominator in this equation? Or do you merely just expect the world and reality to change for you, to fit "what's right".

 

So from my perspective I really don't see your point...you're merely expecting for people to stop being people...well good luck with that and scorning every man to you that you feel represents that or in any way shape or form tries to explain or defend it. Chances are you're going to jump to conclusions, just like you did with me.

 

You can play the victim all you want in this world and have these expectations but you're the only that can change the dynamic. You want to always blame the horse for pulling the cart, when the cart is the one that is attaching it to the horse. These women WANT to win these men, they don't care whether he's said he's just interseted in sex, you listen far too much to the lies of women, defending themselves and pretending their complete idiots and didn't know any better...you'd be surprised how many do just don't care beacuse they got this idea in their head, your argument is completely biased...regardless of whether you say it isn't, it's coming off completely so. You've in no way balanced out your argument.

 

Fun debate...

 

Yes, having character isn't easy. The ones who hold themselves up as being the best 'catch' seem to find it particularly difficult to know how to manage their 'power'.

 

I've witnessed it in both men and women here. This is one place where people feel comfortable letting it all hang out.

 

Of course we can't control others. There is that grey zone though... you know exactly what I'm talking about. The grey area where people are getting to know each other.

 

To blame the person who is venturing into that grey area with an open heart is wrong. Sure, that's a risk we all take when trying to find love. But as long as I continue to post here, I'll will be happy to drop red paint all over the poseurs who use that period of vulnerability for their own selfish needs.

 

You do the same thing in your own way. Your posts are very insightful and help alot of women develop self-awareness and accept their share in keeping a predicament going.

 

After reading this thread and the responses by the OP, it does seem that she didn't initially like the guy much... but just wanted to 'win'. Yes, I can see that.

 

Her complaints do seem a bit disingenuous. It seems both of the people in this little saga were more invested in their egos and game playing than anything else.

 

Anyway, I never advise anyone to try and rewrite the contract after the fact.

[thatone]

See... there is the rub. Women know that men are guarded with their emotions, and that is what draws them into these BS scenarios.

 

Regarding feelings... Yes, I'm quite aware at how easily some people can compartmentalize their lives and emotions. This is another red flag to me. I prefer to be around people whose personalities are integrated and authentic.

 

Anyway, I'm not taking the thread personal. What I take personally is this idea that it is ok to use other human beings. THAT is what I'm pushing back against.

 

If someone knows the other person wants a relationship, and the one who doesn't just strings them along... no.... that is heinous. I don't like it when I see either men or women use someone that way. Yes, there are women here who do it too. I've called them out on it a number of times.

 

Do I think women share the responsibility for staying away from men who do this? Sure, but then don't blame them when they have walls of their own...

 

no, you're assuming everyone should want what you want and those that don't you blame for that, as if you're owed the perfect imaginary world you want to live in.

 

you're still obsessed with your 19 year old fairy tale of love, kids, and marriage and you've been 'doubling down' on that fantasy for years, maybe decades even. the further it slips away the more bitter you get about how it isn't attainable, and you respond to the impossible climb of a mountain that isn't there by trying to find the perfect formula on how to get there.

 

rather than grow up and realize that lots of people want lots of different things, men in particular, you keep trying to preserve that fantasy in a pickle jar full of stereotypes, assumptions, and delusion. as if you think that if you get MORE bitter and MORE self righteous magic prince charming will just jump higher to try to reach the top of your pedestal. because that's what prince charmings do, don't they? they jump when you tell them how high. that is, unless there are no prince charmings...

 

and as long as it's everyone else's fault you don't have to deal with the fear of accepting the fact that your wants are not everyone else's wants, and the defeat that your fantasy might not exist.

Edited June 12, 2012 by thatone

[RedRobin]

no, you're assuming everyone should want what you want and those that don't you blame for that, as if you're owed the perfect imaginary world you want to live in.

 

you're still obsessed with your 19 year old fairy tale of love, kids, and marriage and you've been 'doubling down' on that fantasy for years, maybe decades even. the further it slips away the more bitter you get about how it isn't attainable, and you respond to the impossible climb of a mountain that isn't there by trying to find the perfect formula on how to get there.

 

rather than grow up and realize that lots of people want lots of different things, men in particular, you keep trying to preserve that fantasy in a pickle jar full of stereotypes, assumptions, and delusion. as if you think that if you get MORE bitter and MORE self righteous magic prince charming will just jump higher to try to reach the top of your pedestal. because that's what prince charmings do, don't they? they jump when you tell them how high. that is, unless there are no prince charmings...

 

and as long as it's everyone else's fault you don't have to deal with the fear of accepting the fact that your wants are not everyone else's wants, and the defeat that your fantasy might not exist.

 

Hardly.

 

But too many people settle for the crumbs of a relationship rather than risk being alone. Or they don't value commitment. That's fine. Let them go swirl around somewhere else.

 

I'm not asking for anything I'm not willing to offer myself.

 

Not sure what 'fantasy' you are talking about. Most of my family and friends are happily married and have been for years. I know that didn't happen by f*cking a million faces and calling it a 'relationship'. Alot of people haven't witnessed the benefits of a committed, life-long relationship or have only heard horror stories. So, I can't blame them for being wary. However, it is not up to me to convince any particular man that it has value. I also refuse to 'f*ck' my way into a man's heart.

 

You don't value commitment? That's your choice. I'm not obliged to offer my time or my body to men who don't. No woman is.

[Woggle]

Many men do know what love is but at the risk of sounding misogynist I will say that some women don't really want love and men know it. They want the ego boost of a man wanting to commit to her but they don't really love the guy. Many men know the difference between real feelings for a man and want what you can't have syndrome.

 

I am not saying all women are like this so if this does not describe you don't get offended but that seems to be what it is all about in many cases these days. If women really cared about commitment more than men they would not be initiating 75% of divorces these days. Men are waiting for a woman who walks the walk on devotion and commitment but until that day comes why not have fun?

[veggirl]

Sure, but it still doesn't make it right or acceptable for someone to do this... man or woman.

 

I'd call them a jerk no matter which gender it was. Actually, I have called a couple of women here 'jerks' for playing with men too.

 

Robin, I put "lead on" in quotes for a reason. In the situation I described, I fully blame the woman for being "led on" because a man who doesn't want to committ JUST WON'T. He will sleep with her, hang out with her, etc, but someone hanging around pining for more when months go by without getting it has no one to blame by herself.

 

Most of the time these guys who don't want committment ARE pretty clear about it--the gals they are with just don't want to accept it. OP knew very early on her guy didn't want a committment, but she stayed for 6 mos. Is that his fault? It's really not.

 

I agree with you that if a guy is lying and saying "yes I want you and only you, you are my girlfriend" then OBVIOUSLY he is being a jerk if that's not what he really wants--but that's not what really happens. What happens in reality is that the guy is clear through his ACTIONS that it's NOT gonna happen but the girl hangs around anyway, hoping to change his mind. That's her fault and it's HER responsibility to remove herself from that situation.

 

You just can't blame the guy for everything.

[Quiet Storm]

There are a lot of us that unknowingly lived sheltered lives. Many people have grown up in respectful homes, in happy & helpful communities, were surrounded by people with good intentions, were loved on by parents that thought they were precious gifts. These people take what others say at face value. They truly feel that most people have good intentions, and they think the ones that don't are easily recognizable. They are secure in themselves and often see themselves as a "great catch".

 

And then there are those who grew up differently. Our moms may have lied to our dads. Our dad used the rent money to buy drugs. Hookers, hustlers, crackheads were our community. We hid the stuff we liked so it wouldn't get stolen or pawned. We pretty much assume that most people have ulterior motives. We are skeptics.

 

So there can be a broad range of perspective regarding the intentions of others depending on your environment.

 

It can be a shock for a sheltered girl that blindly trusted to get used. It can cut to the core because it changes everything she thought she knew about people. In her mind, it is a grave injustice! She is appalled that someone could treat her that way. In contrast, the more jaded of us are not surprised and may have seen the clues because of the skeptism that has been instilled in us.

 

We can all agree that it's not okay to use people, but that doesn't change reality. People get used, in a variety of ways, on a daily basis. It is up to us to recognize and protect ourselves from that. With the exception of spouses & close family, we can't depend on others to have our best interests at heart. We can't assume that everyone's intentions are good just because they say so.

 

I think that if a man meets a woman that he is in love with, he will make a commitment to her. The feelings of love will override the logistics of his circumstances. My husband proposed to me right out of high school. We were young & broke, but he knew I was what he wanted. He wanted to scoop me up before any other man did. I was in love and was glad to be scooped up. We worked and got our education after we were married.

 

I know a couple where the man was a proud lifelong bachelor, met a woman and fell in love. The guy who said he'd never get married is now a happy husband. I know another couple where the guy had his whole life planned out, college, career, masters, buy a house, meet a woman, etc. He met a girl, said screw the plan and married her right out of college.

 

I personally feel that when men are wishy washy about the future of their relationship, it means that they are just using that woman as a placeholder. They may enjoy her companionship and sex, but they just don't see her as "the one". They are still keeping their options open.

 

Men don't need time to "figure it out". Men aren't confused. IMO, those are excuses women tell themselves to make his indecisiveness more palatable. If a man is confused about you, you don't want him. You want a man that is 100% sure that you are meant to be his woman.

 

If a man sees you as valuable, he will conclude that other men will see that value in you, and commit. He won't want to risk losing you. If he knows that you are "the one", he will commit. There won't be any reason to keep his options open.

 

Young women need to accept that most men don't have this burning desire to settle down and commit. They want to eventually, but there is usually no urgency- until he meets "the one".

 

In childhood, many little girls fantasize of the perfect wedding, picture themselves in a beautiful gown and pick out their future babies names. In contract, little boys fantasize about fighting bad guys, flying an F18, meeting lots of beautiful women. They aren't dreaming about their wedding day. Too many women think that men are dating for the sole purpose of settling down, and that is always not true, IMO. Men date for fun. Men date for new experiences. Men date for practice. Men date for sex. If they meet "the one", they will commit. If not, they will keep their options open.

 

This doesn't mean that men are cold hearted users. They are not "using" women because they spend time with her and don't intend to marry or commit to her. The man often genuinely likes her and enjoys spending time with her. His affection and loving words are not calculated lies. It's not his fault that most women think that affection and caring words= he wants to be with me forever. It's not fair to assume things, and then get angry when you discover your assumptions are wrong.

 

If a man lies and says "I see us married with kids" when he has no intentions of that, that's wrong. But if you ask and he says "we'll see how it goes" or "let's not rush it" or "we got a good thing going here, lets not mess it up", you can't assume that he sees a long term future with you and get mad when it doesn't happen. You have to be proactive about your life. Ask questions. Don't make excuses. Realize when it's time to move on. Be your own advocate.

[xxoo]

Men don't need time to "figure it out". Men aren't confused. IMO, those are excuses women tell themselves to make his indecisiveness more palatable. If a man is confused about you, you don't want him. You want a man that is 100% sure that you are meant to be his woman.

 

If a man sees you as valuable, he will conclude that other men will see that value in you, and commit. He won't want to risk losing you. If he knows that you are "the one", he will commit. There won't be any reason to keep his options open.

 

Young women need to accept that most men don't have this burning desire to settle down and commit. They want to eventually, but there is usually no urgency- until he meets "the one".

 

In childhood, many little girls fantasize of the perfect wedding, picture themselves in a beautiful gown and pick out their future babies names. In contract, little boys fantasize about fighting bad guys, flying an F18, meeting lots of beautiful women. They aren't dreaming about their wedding day. Too many women think that men are dating for the sole purpose of settling down, and that is always not true, IMO. Men date for fun. Men date for new experiences. Men date for practice. Men date for sex. If they meet "the one", they will commit. If not, they will keep their options open.

 

This doesn't mean that men are cold hearted users. They are not "using" women because they spend time with her and don't intend to marry or commit to her. The man often genuinely likes her and enjoys spending time with her. His affection and loving words are not calculated lies. It's not his fault that most women think that affection and caring words= he wants to be with me forever. It's not fair to assume things, and then get angry when you discover your assumptions are wrong.

 

If a man lies and says "I see us married with kids" when he has no intentions of that, that's wrong. But if you ask and he says "we'll see how it goes" or "let's not rush it" or "we got a good thing going here, lets not mess it up", you can't assume that he sees a long term future with you and get mad when it doesn't happen. You have to be proactive about your life. Ask questions. Don't make excuses. Realize when it's time to move on. Be your own advocate

 

Nailed it.

 

I've observed more than a few men who acted like hunters commit when they met a woman they wanted to marry. Just because he likes you, is attracted to you, and enjoys sex with you doesn't mean he wants you to be his girlfriend, or his wife.

 

Be strong, enter relationships on your own terms, and you'll be ok. If the terms are not acceptable to you--walk!