Too Little, Too Late?

[MontanaGirl]

Posted in "Dating" originally, but only got one reply. I really need help.

 

I've been on and off with a guy for three years now. We broke up over the same things each time, things I needed and he couldn't/wouldn't give to me. They basically boil down to me wanting to move forward in a relationship and him being too commitment-phobic to give them to me (calling ourselves a couple, openly dating such that our coworkers would know, spending nights together, distancing himself from his ex girlfriend a little).

 

It was a cycle: I would move away, he'd get scared of losing me and make promises to give me the things I needed. When we would get back together, he'd either say we were moving too fast (the man would get motion sick on a snail) or have some external reason not to follow through on his promises. We were constantly pushing and pulling, and as a result we both did many very hurtful things.

 

In November we agreed to take a break--not dating anyone else--so he could figure things out. We saw each other nearly every day during that time, but only platonically. The months dragged on, and in April I told him I couldn't wait any longer; that if he ever figured out what he wanted he could find me, but that I wouldn't be waiting around any more.

 

Since April I met another guy. We've only gone out a few times, but I like him and he's made it clear he likes me. I like his personality, I like how open he is about wanting to see me, I like how uncomplicated things are.

 

Then yesterday my ex came to me offering everything I've wanted for so long. It feels different to me this time, like he actually would give me the things I asked for.

 

I just don't know. Part of me wants to run back to his arms, and and the other part wants to run for the hills. We were never perfect; we were good, but things about his personality used to drive me crazy. The commitment-phobia is severe and it scares me. I have a hard time feeling emotionally safe falling back in love with him, and I have a promising new guy I am reluctant to walk away from. On the other hand, I feel like if I reject this chance, I could be missing out on something genuinely amazing.

 

I've never felt so torn before. My ex told me he would give me some time to decide, after I initially told him I couldn't start a relationship with him due to too much doubt/fear.

 

Is there such a thing as "too late" when someone you love wants to give you everything that you hoped for for such a long time? Is my fear/reluctance something to listen to, or something to overcome?

[Tree_Salmon]

I'm in a similar situation right now and I'm hoping she comes running back and we make this work for good but it will only work if both people want it.

 

If you truly want this then you would have to be fully committed to it.

Make a choice and stick by it. Take time and figure it out.

[jackson74280]

The ex is reacting to loosing you. After some time he will fall back into his old ways....that is who he is. As you already said it is a cycle between you and him, this latest development is yet the beginning of another cycle.

 

Go with the new guy.

 

Ex is an ex for a reason.

 

These decisions are much easier when you can see obvious patterns of behavior. Those patterns will repeat themselves.

[greenz]

My gf broke up with me about 3 weeks ago and the finality of that really snapped me out of a lot of issues that I was having. I realized that I was repeating a lot of mistakes and that I could loose her forever. Since the break up, I have made it clear to her that I will give her everything and I have maintained contact. However, I haven't been desperate. I have been working on myself and figuring my career out. Since the break up, she has gone from saying she doesn't want to wait for me to "maybe in 5 to 10 years" to "i need you to believe that if it is meant to be it will happen." I believe we will be back together, but I'm not desperate. I'm just ready to put in the work slowly and I truly mean it. Hopefully with time she will see that. If not, then it really wasn't meant to be. I had a lot of issues and now I feel that I would marry her and be ready to be there for good, however these feelings are still fresh. I need to continue to work on myself and maintain contact and see where it goes. So it can happen, but it can also take some time, for both people involved.

 

Here's what I think. You like the new guy, but you're still in love with your ex. That's not fair to the new guy and it's not going to go away that quickly now. You can tell the new guy the truth and see what he says or you can tell him that you're not ready for anything right now and that you need some time. Then take some time for yourself. Maybe maintain casual contact with the ex to see if he's really changed or if it's just more of the same. Basically, you will have to make up your mind and stick to it. It's not fair to keep both guys hanging on. I don't think your relationship will work with the new guy as long as you are still thinking about the ex and your curiosity about your ex will not die out that easily while you have the new guy as a safety net. I would say get away from both for a while and see how you feel after you take some time for yourself.

[greenz]

Main thing though, do not run back to the ex's arms. If you're going to pick any one right now, you're better off staying with the new guy and seeing where that goes and seeing if your ex backs out of the picture or shows you more of the same instability as in the past when things don't go his way.

[pteromom]

Your ex has had many chances, and has failed every time. I agree with jackson - he is so convincing this time, because he realizes you are in a new relationship and his option to be with you has been taken away. It has nothing to do with feelings for you.

 

If you go back to your ex, he will be great for a short time, and then the same patterns will start again.

 

Tell him no, and give the new guy a chance.

[greenz]

Your ex has had many chances, and has failed every time. I agree with jackson - he is so convincing this time, because he realizes you are in a new relationship and his option to be with you has been taken away. It has nothing to do with feelings for you.

 

If you go back to your ex, he will be great for a short time, and then the same patterns will start again.

 

Tell him no, and give the new guy a chance.

 

Yeah, I didn't think of that at first. If your ex knows anything about your new relationship, it's more about that then you.

[MontanaGirl]

Thank you for the thoughtful replies. Hearing unbiased opinions really helps organize my thoughts.

 

My ex doesn't know about my new guy, so that's not the issue. I think he (the ex) has just always assumed he could move forward with me whenever he was ready, and to both of our surprise it's turning out not to be the case.

 

I like Tree_Salmon's advice (or my interpretation of it), that if I really want a fresh start with the ex I need to be 100% committed to trying again. It made me acknowledge that I'm not prepared to throw my whole heart back into his hands; not at this point, anyway.

 

I don't want to hurt anybody. When I was younger I tossed aside some great guys to get back together with my (other, long-ago) on-and-off-again boyfriend. I find myself still regretting those choices, not just because I hurt men who didn't deserve it but also because I will never know "what could've been" with any of them. I don't want to do that this time around & so I have been as honest as possible with the new guy.

 

Oh, relationships. Can't you just be easy for once?

[greenz]

 

Oh, relationships. Can't you just be easy for once?

 

They're not supposed to be easy for you. You're a girl.

 

Given more of your history you just mentioned, definitely don't give up the good guy so easily again. If your ex really has changed, he will show it over long term. It's way too early to tell. I would avoid too much contact with the ex and take it slow and honest with the new guy. With time things will be much clearer either way.

[MontanaGirl]

They're not supposed to be easy for you. You're a girl.

 

Oh my goodness that made me laugh, thanks for that. I was feeling pretty down today (obviously).

 

And of course thanks for the good advice, greenz.

[Tiera D]

Montana i will give you a suggestion,tell the ex that you need more time,see whether he is genuine or not,see what he acts during this trial period.Although this may seem like stringing both along,but still i still think you should take more time to understand the new guy and consider which you want more.Good luck

 

TD

[MontanaGirl]

I forgot to mention a complicating factor. The ex is on the cusp of an important transition in his career (we're earning our PhD's, he's almost finished). The next step almost always means switching labs, and frequently means switching universities. For the last 1.5 years he's been wavering between staying here in the US and going back home (overseas) to be closer to his sick mother. He has ~6-8 months left here before he'll finish.

 

When he asked for a second (fifth? sixth?) chance, he indicated that if we were together he would plan on staying in our city; if we weren't, he would likely move either back home or go somewhere else in the US or Europe.

 

Weeks ago, I told him he should figure out if he wanted to be back home or here, for himself--independently of our relationship. I was--and remain--worried that if he chose to stay here for me and he missed out on the last years of his mother's life, he would eventually resent me for it. At the very least, hold it over my head if we needed to make a compromise.

 

But it adds a feeling of urgency; if I don't start something with him now, I may very well lose my chance forever (short of chasing him halfway across the world).

 

On the other hand, maybe that closed door would be a blessing in the long run.

[leoc1973]

Wait a minute before you let everyone tell you about giving this guy "too many chances"!?!?!? What has this guy done wrong? Cheated? Treated you bad? Hit you? Does he kick homeless people while walking by? Where is him taking a little time to decide if you are the right one bad of him in any way whatsoever? Three years to decide to get married isn't anything!

 

And then you break up with him to threaten him into marrying you? Are you in some kind of hurry? Are you 40 and your biological clock is ticking? Is someone dying? You are showing him exactly what he is taking his time thinking about. That you aren't one to stick around forever and maybe someday when times get tough you will dump him then too.

 

Oh and then on the side you got another boyfriend already? While you are supposedly in love with your ex? If you are in love and thinking about marrying a guy and you break up you should be so sick over it that another guy isn't even an option.

 

So many girls these days always have to have a guy. Why? Does your happiness hinge on someone else? Do you need to be entertained all the time? Read some of these other girls posts on this forum how they had breakups and there are lots of guys interested in them but they only want their ex and no one else compares to their ex. That is how you should feel!! Especially if you are wanting to get married.

 

Listen some guys are different than others. Some move more slowly and 3 years in no way whatsoever is snail pace. I mean do you need a ring on your finger to keep his penis out of other women?

 

I am not trying to be a jerk but you are totally wrong here! You are both working on your phd's and I am assuming you are both smart people so quit the crap and go get your ex back before he decides you are too much trouble to keep chasing. Remember if he's gonna be a doctor then there are probably tons of women out there trying to land a doctor and you had better be careful cause there might be one that puts a twinkle in his eye then you are going to be the one kicking yourself!

 

And thinking about staying away from him cause he has a sick mother?!?! WTF!! Or he is getting a job somewhere else? Come on Montana stop listening to your friends and go get your man back seriously before he gets away and you lost him for a guy with a "good personality" UGH!!

[MontanaGirl]

Whoa whoa whoa, slow down a little please Leoc.

 

First, read a little more carefully before starting a rant…. In no way have I mentioned marriage as the goal I am/was after. I said I wanted to progress the relationship. The things I want, after 3 years of being involved with my ex:

1) Calling what we have a relationship. Referring to each other as boyfriend & girlfriend. And no, the name itself isn't the important part, it's the recognition of commitment I'm looking for. Commitment to the relationship *at this stage* not commitment in the marriage, "til death do you part" sense. And no, he doesn't (or didn't in the past) have a hangup with the term "boyfriend," so it's not a simple labeling issue.

2) Acknowledging to other people that we are, in fact, seeing each other. For three years now, many of our common acquaintances have thought he's still in a relationship with his long-term, long-distance ex girlfriend. He has gone along with that belief in front of me, when they ask how she's doing & when he'll visit her next. My friends know about him; some of his friends know about me. But anybody at our work would tell you he was still dating his ex (they broke up ~6 months before we started dating).

3) On a related note, I wanted some distance between him and this ex. I don't want them to stop talking; I just want to be kept moderately involved in their friendship. As it has been, he hides it from me entirely, to the point of lying about who is on the phone when she calls.

4) Intimacy. He has only told me he loved me twice. Both times when we were fighting. In fact, last year when I asked him why he didn't say he loved me, his response was "Because I don't." He took it back a day later, but try to stomach hearing that from someone you've loved. It's not just those words, though, it's any loving words I miss. It's talking about the future at all. It's a long embrace. It's saying he's lucky to have me in his life. So Leoc, I am not looking for the "four words every woman waits to hear" after three years of being with this man; I'm still looking for the "three words."

 

Second, what has he done….. Apart from the 4 things I've been looking to change, and lying to me about his ability to move forward in that capacity, he has gone to visit his ex girlfriend, alone, twice for about a week each time. It would be fine if this were a long-ago, completely platonic ex. It would even be fine if he had invited me, or said yes when I asked to join in. But this is a touchy subject for us; this is the woman who PROPOSED to him (yes, marriage proposal) after we'd been dating for six months. This is the woman he hides conversations with. So he has lied to me, at the very least emotionally cheated on me, and kept me a secret for the last three years, despite repeated promises to the contrary.

 

Third, his potential move. I am not avoiding him because he has family problems. I have stood by him, loyally, for the last 1.5 years as he's sunk into a depression (because of his mother). I have also seen him break down when he thinks about not being there for her. She could be around another month, she could be around for 10 more years. Nobody knows. I think he would never forgive himself if she only lasted a couple more years, and he wasn't there with her. So yes, I am worried that if I encouraged him to stay here, and his mom passed away, it would cause huge feelings of guilt--for him and for me--as well as a major rift in our relationship. As for moving somewhere else, that's the one thing you are right about: I do not want to get into a long distance relationship with a man who already has issues with compartmentalizing his life (his words, not mine), commitment phobia, and expressing intimacy. This would not be for a few months; if he moved, I wouldn't be able to follow him for three more years.

 

Finally, the new "boyfriend." I've gone on three casual dates with another man. I've been on a "break" with my ex since November, and officially broken up since April. For seven months I was so sick about losing my ex that I didn't look at another man. In that time, my ex NEVER expressed interest in starting a serious relationship with me. We saw each other frequently, and he treated me exactly as my brother would. I love him profoundly, but for seven months he's been teaching me to love him like a brother, not a romantic partner. This strong interest in being with me romantically again is new.

 

So tell me, Leoc, how long "should" a woman who loved a man, who was pushed away for three years, remain heartsick and faithful? Knowing more details, do you still think I should chase after him before another woman "puts a twinkle in his eye?"

[leoc1973]

OK!! First of all Montana... don't call me by name in a condescending way!! LOL just kidding I deserve it! I hugely apologize. You struck a nerve with me because most of the reason my ex dumped me is because I hadn't gotten her a ring yet and I have a sick mother that I take care of. Then I see all these other people telling you dump him dump him move on! People sometimes so blindly give advice because its easy for someone to say get rid of him when they have no idea how you feel about him. Then you also mentioned another man and my ex of 5 years who when she broke up with me told me I was her soul mate and she just needed to be alone for a while started dating a guy a 2 weeks later.

 

So I once again apologize. I didn't sound too "ranty" did I? That wasn't completely my intention. I was just thinking let me try to tell this girl how ridiculous she is being because she hasn't gotten a ring yet. I was going to go and try to read your back story but I was falling asleep. So once again I really truly apologize.

 

OK so for real advice on him now that I have more info... This guy seems to have some kind of anterior motives or hidden agenda. I am betting he is still in love with his ex and is keeping you around as plan B. He is using depression, his mother, and any thing else I am guessing as a reason to slow you down in the relationship. He went to see her twice? UMM no. Get rid of his ass he is up to some kind of no good.

 

Only told you he loves you twice? This guy is seriously really damaged or he is up to no good. I don't like to tell people to move on because like I said ya just never know what kind of real feelings are going on between 2 people and people throw their advice around so loosely but in this case he's really gotta go!

 

Once again I really am sorry for being a dick. And don't date a new man cause he's nice. Date a guy cause he takes your breath away or you will always feel like something is missing. Thank you for putting me in my place I deserve it. I was having one of those lonely days.

[daphne]

On the other hand, I feel like if I reject this chance, I could be missing out on something genuinely amazing.

 

You didn't have something genuinely amazing the first time. He always kept you distant. There may have been attraction on your part, possibly because he was a challenge. But this is not amazing and if you're looking for a solid loving relationship, you shouldn't try to kid yourself.

 

He's back because he's afraid of losing you. He hasn't changed. This happens with commitmentphobes, emotionally unavailable people. He won't be any different the next go around, or the next.

 

If you feel safe with the new guy, let that be a signal. He may very well be NORMAL. He may very well be capable of a real relationship. I wouldn't even think twice about it if you dig the guy and see it leading somewhere. You already have a known quantity with the ex. Heart ache and bull****. You have the possibility of developing something meaningful with the new guy. Meaningful does not include unstable, untitled push/pull behavior.

 

It's not fear of trying again that has you reluctant. It's probably common sense. I've gone back before to a guy who was emotionally unavailable. He didn't change. He's still a basketcase. It did not work out the second time and I got on the clue train. And after 5 years, he's harping on teh same things he always has. I've had to bluntly tell him to go away.

 

And to add, you are not responsible for nursing the walking wounded. It's his responsibility to do what it takes, or find someone of lesser value. But he won't know your value when you don't know it.

[MontanaGirl]

Leoc, thank you for the apology. It's an admirable quality to be willing to admit you're wrong, and especially so to an anonymous online poster, so I really appreciate that you did.

 

I agree, people tend to be too quick to tell someone to move on, without knowing the full story and emotional intricacies behind a few paragraphs of text. I was especially surprised by your first response because I've read your opinions on other posts before, and usually find them spot on and insightful. Maybe that was why I reacted so strongly to it. Plus I hadn't had my coffee yet when I read it this AM… So perhaps I put you in your place a bit too strongly.

 

As for your (real) advice… I have no doubt that he was still hooked on his ex until a few months ago. Despite all his denials, that is as clear as day to me. Thinking he may be finally taking that step now. For example, last week he actually told our coworkers he wasn't with the ex anymore, which shocked me to no end. And yes, he is definitely seriously damaged emotionally. I suppose it isn't my job to patch him back up again, tempting as it may be. And thanks for the advice about the new guy too… I miss that breathless, "how the heck did I get so lucky to find you?" feeling; it's been too long.

 

Daphne, I suppose you're right. We were never amazing. I've always said we could be, if only we'd gotten a fair chance. He's always agreed with me, as have a few of my friends. But I guess I should admit to myself that the reason we never got a chance was because he never let us have one. Even though he has had a brutal past few years, he could've chosen to lean on me through it rather than push me away.

 

Dunno about the new guy. He seems genuinely normal, sweet, and affectionate. And available. Weird. I don't know yet if I'll develop feelings for him, but I suppose a fourth date never killed anybody.

[greenz]

MontanaGirl, the more you've described the more I see that you really need to leave your ex alone. He has a history there and he has not gotten his life sorted out. Until a guy does that, he will not be able to commit. The problems you have described are very genuine concerns a woman should have. Like I said though, there is a possibility that he does actually love you. The fact that he has decisions coming up, how he makes them will let you know how he really feels and he needs to make them on his own. Talk to him if he reaches out and see what he has to say, but base your opinions on his actions. If he chooses to stay here instead of going to his mom, if he gets his act together and if he begins to convey these things to you with more passion, you will see that he really means it. If he will start feeling that he truly may lose you and that his life will be worse as a result, he will make choices, however difficult, to ensure that he can be with you. Basically the whining should stop and should be replaced with positive thinking and actions that back it up. If you will hear less and less from him or he will choose on his own to go back to his country, then it will mean that it was not meant to be.