Author Nomad Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) The truth is, you can never know what's going on in someone else's head, and why they do the things they do. I'm not sure if you read my thread a few weeks ago about a recent ex-friend of mine. Many months back, I had rejected him, and (with the added hindsight of 20/20) admit to myself that I probably did give the impression of leading him on/flakiness. I also then started seeing someone that, from a certain perspective, I "barely knew". But the truth is, I was bitter towards him. I felt that HE had rejected ME, and that any amount of contact we had was either him trying to play me (turn me into a friends-with-benefits), or me acting as if I was "throwing" myself at him. These thoughts in my head would not have been apparent, because in that situation, I played my cards very close to the chest. I was too prideful to let him know how much he'd gotten under my skin. I didn't get over my own bitterness over this situation until a month or two ago. That is when I proactively reached out to my friend... because I finally felt as if I could be a genuine friend, and wasn't held back by bitterness/anger. My rejection of him/not contacting my ex-friend actually had very little to do with him, and everything to do with what has happening inside my own head. My contacting him/not contacting him had nothing to do with whether I "respected" him or not... more accurately, I contacted him because I no longer felt the need to protect myself, and I could finally open up and be truthful/genuine. This also ties back to the OP.... you have no idea why K rejected you, really. Unless you sat down with her and had several hours' worth of therapy sessions. It could be that something is fundamentally wrong with you, or it could be that there was something in you that triggered something in her, and so made you incompatible for the time being. Or it could be her issue entirely, and you're a perfectly fine human being. You don't know... which means you really shouldn't be taking the rejection personally, because it might not be. Furthermore, use the situation with my ex-friend as a word of caution. I rejected him.... but after months of finally dealing with my own issues, was ready to come back to him, apologize, and admit my mistake. He had the opportunity for a MAJOR ego boost, and yet his bitterness and anger towards me turned a potentially good situation (a friendship, or at least acquaintance, built on honesty and forgiveness) into a dramatic hurricane that is still echoing out into our social group. Forgive. Let go. Do it for yourself, if nothing else. You might be surprised what wanders back into your future, if you do. If K wishes to contact me and hang out, I would be more than happy to do so. She has my cell number and, of course, my office email address. You are correct that I can't say for certain why K rejected me, but I suspect it has at least something to do with the most likely reason that nearly every other woman has rejected me: I'm 5'5" and not that great looking (some would, and have, call me ugly). (Also, I think she may be a few years older than me, which possibly also factored into it, though I don't know her exact age.) You say you may have been unintentionally leading on your friend: I suspect that K broke our date because she explicitly didn't want to lead me on. I believe that she believed that I was interested in her; I also believe that she wasn't interested in me, and therefore broke the date because she 1) didn't wish to lead me on, and/or 2) didn't wish to be put in an awkward situation of fending off my amorous overtures. The date she broke would have been our second "dinner and drinks" date (though the fourth time overall that we hung out), and, in my experience, the second date is usually the time when things are kicked up a notch, which I intended to at least make an attempt at. The fact of the matter is that a rejection is a rejection, and I'm tired of rejection. And I'm not so interested in the "it's not you, it's me" or "I'm too busy" routine, or anything of the sort. If she were interested, we'd be dating, or at least hanging out on a regular basis. She wouldn't even so much as have lunch with me after she broke our date. Edited June 17, 2012 by Nomad
AlexDP Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 2 months is a really small droplet of time, V. When I went through the bulk of my most transformational self-improvement period, it wasn't all sunshine and lollipops either. Sometimes things get worse before they get better. Truly. I agree entirely with the latter statement --- self-improvement MUST be done for it's own sake. But it DOES help out immensely in every aspect of life. Not always immediately, of course. I actually think a desperate man is more unattractive than an obese woman. I know many men who don't really mind an overweight or even obese woman, SD. Probably not in SoCal, but they exist. Truly. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but it's nowhere near as universal as women disliking desperate men --- I've yet to meet a woman who'd want a desperate man or even many who'd settle for one in any case. Desperation is just unattractive. In women, too. Desperate women, whatever they look like, do far worse than obese women, IME. I know quite a few women who are very overweight or potentially obese (obesity is really about BMI % and I don't run the numbers) and have happy Rs or even juggle several men. Totally happens. I don't know any desperate people who are successful in love. Desperation either results in, compounds, or comes from (sometimes all 3) low self-esteem and typically leads to erratic behavior in Rs, poor interaction, a lack of chemistry, and so forth, as well as the things V said. A lot of a person's success in life depends on their own sense of self-worth and that's what desperate people typically lack. Often with.. desperate men.
jobaba Posted June 17, 2012 Posted June 17, 2012 If K wishes to contact me and hang out, I would be more than happy to do so. She has my cell number and, of course, my office email address. You are correct that I can't say for certain why K rejected me, but I suspect it has at least something to do with the most likely reason that nearly every other woman has rejected me: I'm 5'5" and not that great looking (some would, and have, call me ugly). (Also, I think she may be a few years older than me, which possibly also factored into it, though I don't know her exact age.) You say you may have been unintentionally leading on your friend: I suspect that K broke our date because she explicitly didn't want to lead me on. I believe that she believed that I was interested in her; I also believe that she wasn't interested in me, and therefore broke the date because she 1) didn't wish to lead me on, and/or 2) didn't wish to be put in an awkward situation of fending off my amorous overtures. The date she broke would have been our second "dinner and drinks" date (though the fourth time overall that we hung out), and, in my experience, the second date is usually the time when things are kicked up a notch, which I intended to at least make an attempt at. The fact of the matter is that a rejection is a rejection, and I'm tired of rejection. And I'm not so interested in the "it's not you, it's me" or "I'm too busy" routine, or anything of the sort. If she were interested, we'd be dating, or at least hanging out on a regular basis. She wouldn't even so much as have lunch with me after she broke our date. I did a quick perusal of your post history and I feel for you man. You seem like a good guy who has it rough. Have you gotten ANY women in the 7 years that you've been here? I'm in the same boat. Also short and not particularly attractive. Keep this thread alive and I think I can help you. Or PM me.
Author Nomad Posted June 17, 2012 Author Posted June 17, 2012 I did a quick perusal of your post history and I feel for you man. You seem like a good guy who has it rough. Thanks, I appreciate that. Have you gotten ANY women in the 7 years that you've been here? I'm in the same boat. Also short and not particularly attractive. Keep this thread alive and I think I can help you. Or PM me. Yes, I've tried the online personals route and did have some success with that in that I met some women and went on some dates, but none of them led to a relationship. I eventually became frustrated with the online thing, and haven't done it in while (though I've been considering resuming it). I've also been on a few dates with women that I've met "in real life", though those were very few and far between, and also didn't lead to a relationship.
mortensorchid Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 No one likes being rejected of hurt or whatever you want to call it that is negative. Whatever you do, please do not take this out on others in your work or personal life. It is not the fault of your coworker, the guy sitting next to you at the bar, or the customer service rep on the other end of the phone of things that did or did not happen the way you wanted them to. It's ok to be bitter about something, but don't take it out on other people because you will have no friends / family / others around you. And don't let it shape your potential futures with others either. People take their issues from the past and apply them to their future. You show yourself as having a weakness, telling others "I cannot get over (blank)". Want to change? Get off your ass and DO something constructive. Don't let life pass you by. 1
Author Nomad Posted June 18, 2012 Author Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) No one likes being rejected of hurt or whatever you want to call it that is negative. Whatever you do, please do not take this out on others in your work or personal life. I'm not. In fact, this incident has prompted some deep thinking and introspection in me. And don't let it shape your potential futures with others either. People take their issues from the past and apply them to their future. You show yourself as having a weakness, telling others "I cannot get over (blank)". Want to change? Get off your ass and DO something constructive. Don't let life pass you by. A year or so ago, I would have agreed with you. But, it's become increasingly apparent that my failures with women are probably due to factors beyond my control. There's no real lessons I can glean which can be applied to future circumstances. The only positives I can salvage are that 1) it always helps to have more experience in asking women out, and 2) it may have toughened me up somewhat (though this remains to be seen). Edited June 18, 2012 by Nomad
jobaba Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Thanks, I appreciate that. Yes, I've tried the online personals route and did have some success with that in that I met some women and went on some dates, but none of them led to a relationship. I eventually became frustrated with the online thing, and haven't done it in while (though I've been considering resuming it). I've also been on a few dates with women that I've met "in real life", though those were very few and far between, and also didn't lead to a relationship. I'm not. In fact, this incident has prompted some deep thinking and introspection in me. A year or so ago, I would have agreed with you. But, it's become increasingly apparent that my failures with women are probably due to factors beyond my control. There's no real lessons I can glean which can be applied to future circumstances. The only positives I can salvage are that 1) it always helps to have more experience in asking women out, and 2) it may have toughened me up somewhat (though this remains to be seen). You're on the right track. I'm probably just like you except I've been able to snag a few relationships with some pretty good women. There's really not too much you can do to get women to like you. So much is based on physical attraction. However, what you can do is talk to more women. You've learned a valuable lesson here with this woman. Don't get caught up with one woman. The more women you talk to, the more you will increase your odds of one giving you a chance and liking you ... perhaps a lot. I have a friend who is obese, a total slob, not that intelligent, and totally socially awkward (good guy though). He kind of reminds you of the guy who will come in the office Monday morning and shoot the place up. But he got a GF who COMPLETELY accepts all of his flaws because he was willing to play the numbers. I don't even need to tell you how much rejection he got, but it was a lot. Now that he has a GF, I tell some of my friends about it and they are like, "Guy A has a GF?!? Wow. Surprising." So it can be done. Numbers... Edited June 18, 2012 by jobaba
Algermas Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Sorry I missed this question. Yes, verhrzn, to be honest, I do wish I could hurt K the way she's hurt me. However, I don't hold that sort of power over her: if she were that into me, I wouldn't be in this situation. However, I don't hate K, even if I am angry and disappointed at how things turned out. My "snubbing" her is admittedly an attempt to inflict some degree of hurt on her. It is also my way of asserting some power over the situation: I can't make her date me, as that's something I've no further control over. But, I can control whether or not I talk to her, and I choose not to talk to her. I admit that it's largely due to hurt and pride. I feel like her keeping me at a distance as a mere "office buddy" or casual acquaintance is sort of throwing me some scraps, and I'd rather take nothing than take her scraps. I don't want to be her casual acquaintance: I want to be her boyfriend and her lover, and if I can't have that, then I want nothing to do with her. I am sick of rejection, and moreover, I'm sick of being the "nice guy" who takes rejection in stride. I think that, this time, I'd almost prefer that the girl think of me as an @sshole. I can empathize with this sentiment. I too was like this at one time, I decided to accept the cards I was dealt and essentially cut the entire gender out of my life for a number of years ( working in IT this isn't as hard as it seems ). I worked out, focused on my career and now I reap the rewards, I pump and dump one girl after the next, about a year ago I had the amazing experience of waking up at her house and realizing a picture on the wall looked odly familiar. It was her mother, one of the many women who didn't have time for me when I wasn't as fit or wealthy. I made it a point to stay for breakfast.
fortyninethousand322 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I can empathize with this sentiment. I too was like this at one time, I decided to accept the cards I was dealt and essentially cut the entire gender out of my life for a number of years ( working in IT this isn't as hard as it seems ). I worked out, focused on my career and now I reap the rewards, I pump and dump one girl after the next, about a year ago I had the amazing experience of waking up at her house and realizing a picture on the wall looked odly familiar. It was her mother, one of the many women who didn't have time for me when I wasn't as fit or wealthy. I made it a point to stay for breakfast. Good job. I commend you.
Author Nomad Posted June 20, 2012 Author Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) You're on the right track. I'm probably just like you except I've been able to snag a few relationships with some pretty good women. There's really not too much you can do to get women to like you. So much is based on physical attraction. However, what you can do is talk to more women. You've learned a valuable lesson here with this woman. Don't get caught up with one woman. The more women you talk to, the more you will increase your odds of one giving you a chance and liking you ... perhaps a lot. I have a friend who is obese, a total slob, not that intelligent, and totally socially awkward (good guy though). He kind of reminds you of the guy who will come in the office Monday morning and shoot the place up. But he got a GF who COMPLETELY accepts all of his flaws because he was willing to play the numbers. I don't even need to tell you how much rejection he got, but it was a lot. Now that he has a GF, I tell some of my friends about it and they are like, "Guy A has a GF?!? Wow. Surprising." So it can be done. Numbers... Is your friend's gf obese, as well? In my experience, obese people usually date each other. Obesity and slovenliness can at least be controlled. Has he ever tried to whip himself into shape? Regarding the "numbers game" advice, a few other people have said the same, and I agree with the basic sentiment. Online personals are a good way for having access to large numbers of women, which is probably why I had more takers via that route than "in real life": I could simply contact far more women that way than I'd ever have a chance to do IRL. And I don't really meet many women to begin with, which is why I invest so much hope in the few "prospects" that I do meet. However, online personals at times feel a bit too much like "shopping" for a partner. Actually, telemarketing may be a better analogy: contact 100 people and hope that at least a few of them say "yes", and you can make some "sales". There's something to be said for meeting someone, getting to know them, and gradually falling for each other over time. That's what I had with K (though, clearly, she didn't feel the same about me). There's something more, dare I say, romantic about that... Edited June 20, 2012 by Nomad
jobaba Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Is your friend's gf obese, as well? In my experience, obese people usually date each other. Obesity and slovenliness can at least be controlled. Has he ever tried to whip himself into shape? Regarding the "numbers game" advice, a few other people have said the same, and I agree with the basic sentiment. Online personals are a good way for having access to large numbers of women, which is probably why I had more takers via that route than "in real life": I could simply contact far more women that way than I'd ever have a chance to do IRL. And I don't really meet many women to begin with, which is why I invest so much hope in the few "prospects" that I do meet. However, online personals at times feel a bit too much like "shopping" for a partner. Actually, telemarketing may be a better analogy: contact 100 people and hope that at least a few of them say "yes", and you can make some "sales". There's something to be said for meeting someone, getting to know them, and gradually falling for each other over time. That's what I had with K (though, clearly, she didn't feel the same about me). There's something more, dare I say, romantic about that... She is larger to slightly obese, but that's besides the point. She is better socially than he and has had many boyfriends. It's not really about finding someone who looks exactly like you. I can't even tell you how many women I've been rejected by who were so close to me they could have been my sister. It's a lot. Bolded. Yes, that is the ideal, but it's not a good way to operate for guys who are less desirable. How many women do you meet in that fashion, where you slowly get to know them one on one in a non pressure setting and fall for them? Maybe one a year or every 2 years? How many of them will be physically attracted to you? Not good odds.
Author Nomad Posted June 21, 2012 Author Posted June 21, 2012 She is larger to slightly obese, but that's besides the point. She is better socially than he and has had many boyfriends. It's not really about finding someone who looks exactly like you. I can't even tell you how many women I've been rejected by who were so close to me they could have been my sister. It's a lot. Yea, I wasn't suggesting that the obese prefer to date each other (probably, they don't), just that they have a harder time finding a thin person who wants to date them, and thus are more or less stuck with each other. Bolded. Yes, that is the ideal, but it's not a good way to operate for guys who are less desirable. How many women do you meet in that fashion, where you slowly get to know them one on one in a non pressure setting and fall for them? Maybe one a year or every 2 years? How many of them will be physically attracted to you? Not good odds. Yea, not even every 2 years. And even the ones I do meet in that manner usually aren't attracted to me.
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