joystickd Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 Why is men being honest such a bad thing sometimes women? Ex. You complain about men lying about relationships only to want sex. A man actually is honest about it and he gets: "I expects someone to get to know me first" or "i'm not like that" or some other crazy response and complain when it should be a its not what i'm looking for and keep it moving. I got to get off here for a while the negativity is getting to me
xxoo Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 Why is men being honest such a bad thing sometimes women? Ex. You complain about men lying about relationships only to want sex. A man actually is honest about it and he gets: "I expects someone to get to know me first" or "i'm not like that" or some other crazy response and complain when it should be a its not what i'm looking for and keep it moving. I got to get off here for a while the negativity is getting to me I agree that the honesty should be appreciated, and I don't understand complaining--but I can see how a woman would be disappointed or frustrated if she was wanting more. But your examples of "crazy" responses don't sound crazy to me. She's explaining why that's not what she's looking for. 4
Kamille Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 Ex. You complain about men lying about relationships only to want sex. A man actually is honest about it and he gets: "I expects someone to get to know me first" or "i'm not like that" or some other crazy response and complain when it should be a its not what i'm looking for and keep it moving. I got to get off here for a while the negativity is getting to me I agree with xxoo. I don't see such a semantic difference between "It's not what I'm looking for", "I want someone to get to know me first" and "I'm not like that". Aren't they all variations on a same theme? Whichever way, you as a guy get enough information to know that if the only thing you want is sex, you should "keep it moving" as you say. 1
irin Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 im actually very grateful for that. i do get disappointed, and think dam that how he sees me and thats all he wants me for? but i move on. the one time i got really pissed off was with a guy who pretended to respect my wishes, but secretly thought he could get me, change my mind or manipulate me. 1
Stupid Girl Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 Ex. You complain about men lying about relationships only to want sex. A man actually is honest about it and he gets: "I expects someone to get to know me first" or "i'm not like that" or some other crazy response and complain when it should be a its not what i'm looking for and keep it moving. Wow, those responses sure are crazy! What kind of bath salts must those women have been on that would make her express the fact that she has values and standards? JUST INSANE!
freetolove Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 that's because you're talking to the wrong women. Talk to a prostitute, they are more then willing to jump into bed with you if you're ready to pay.
d'Arthez Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 I think people miss the point of the thread. I am guessing this thread was created by OP after experiencing severe frustration in arguing his point in several threads in which his assessment of the particular situations, and was subsequently attacked (or at least perceived it as such). I am not going to let myself drawn in whether or not joystickd is correct or not in his assessment in the various threads that inspired him to start this thread. Sometimes "an honest" perspective is exactly what people do not want to hear, because it clashes with one's deeply held views. A lot of posters end up attributing a whole series of beliefs, desires and motivations to the characters in OPs. We often fall in the trap to generalize that our beliefs and desires are equally attributable to others and subsequently proceed to argue as if the characters in first posts in threads are similar to ourselves. Thus a completely off-topic discussion ensues, on whether or not the view that is attributed to one of the characters in a thread's OP is morally reprehensible or not, rather than if said character holds such a view. Babylonian confusion ensues. At least that is my understanding of OP's post, and the intension behind starting this thread. Correct me if I am wrong. 1
FitChick Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 If you want a casual relationship or ONS, date separated women. They are just looking for fun. I'd tell women the same thing about men.
zengirl Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 Generally speaking: Honesty is better than dishonesty, but if you're being honest about bad behavior, that doesn't make the bad behavior not bad. I don't consider just being in a R for sex truly bad behavior if one is honest, but I would consider it counter to my views and distasteful --- those aren't the kind of men I'd want to be around. I don't think anyone gets points for being honest --- though honesty is good --- alone, and I think someone who expects any kind of recognition or reward just for doing what you SHOULD do is bizarre. The whole reason being honest is both good and difficult (almost everything good is a bit difficult, in its own way) is because people may not like the honest thing you say. So what? They're entitled not to and the fact that you were "honest" doesn't get you acceptance. But I don't really know what you mean or what your point is.
Author joystickd Posted June 10, 2012 Author Posted June 10, 2012 That was just an example. All I am just saying is why the big fuss when men are truly honest. Notice I had ex for example. Even in general people are not honest because of fear. Even not disclosing certain things to me is failing to be honest. In the realm of dating honesty on some level is seen as evil. The woman that is not attract to a man says "I just want to be friends" when honestly she wants to say "I'm not into you". The man that say "I want to be with you" really means "I'm just in it for the sex". Even on this forum the reality of honesty comes under fire. Whole arguments about a woman's past because not necessarily because they want to know the number but wanting to know about YOU. The past is what made you the person you are now. Why not own that and be honest about it? Why hide or not admit or even be ashamed of experiences that led to the person you are now? Why get mad when you hear the reality of what is really going on not what is perceived to be going on? The honesty is that not all women are golddiggers or men not wanting relationships but no one seems to cares because everyone seems to be drawn to the negativity. People hate the honest truth that if you are repeating the same experiences the problem is YOU and you have absolutely not right to say all men/women are this or that. Mature people own up to that and are not afraid to hear the honest truth when it regards to that. Its a shame when people are so addicted to negativity that they hate to even acknowledge the truth of that there are good men/women out here. People are so stuck on creating this enemy in the opposite sex in their image or the image that they hope others will agree with. It is no help only a disservice to do this. What is to gain from even being able to accept honesty about reality?
WonderKid Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 You need to assume EVERYONE lies! Man, woman, boy, girl, everyone. No one lays down their cards early in the dating game. Men are plotters and women will tell you anything. But when you guys get to know eachother, those lies will break and you can both explain the reason behind doing it. No one tells the truth. Just hope that they are consistent liars and you'll be fine. 1
Kamille Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 Sometimes "an honest" perspective is exactly what people do not want to hear, because it clashes with one's deeply held views. A lot of posters end up attributing a whole series of beliefs, desires and motivations to the characters in OPs. We often fall in the trap to generalize that our beliefs and desires are equally attributable to others and subsequently proceed to argue as if the characters in first posts in threads are similar to ourselves. This goes both ways right? Because what one person deems "an honest" perspective is but that, a partial perspective spoken from the point of view of the advice giver. It might be the advice giver's honest opinion, but it cannot be the honest truth, applicable to every possible situation, applying to all humans.
irin Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 the big fuss is some women get offended! when say to their face that all you want is to F them. but there are girl who are into the casual thing and that would be your best bet! someone who wants the same thing as, an to be fare i think those responses are reasonable, if you hear any of that, why dont you just move on to the next. sorry if this isnt about yourself, but more generally.
Woggle Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 Life would be so much better if people just came out and stated their intentions. Then a person has the choice to reject or embrace them.
Author joystickd Posted June 10, 2012 Author Posted June 10, 2012 the big fuss is some women get offended! when say to their face that all you want is to F them. but there are girl who are into the casual thing and that would be your best bet! someone who wants the same thing as, an to be fare i think those responses are reasonable, if you hear any of that, why dont you just move on to the next. sorry if this isnt about yourself, but more generally. That was an example. I meant real honesty like for example a man can give an honest opinion and he gets called a misogynist or hates women. An example would be a guy saying he did a pump and dump because the woman wasn't relationship material. It is horrible he said it but on that same coin a woman friendzoning some guy is seen by women not as bad. To me a rejection is a rejection. Even something as simple as "How do I look in this dress?". A honest answer from a man evokes anger but you wanted honesty so it becomes that a man in some ways in order to date and even be civil with women must lie. Men and women have become so afraid to actually be honest. Look at the realm of dating "friendzone" or even the I thought he liked me but he only wanted sex. A great majority of problems and bitterness would be eliminated if people would just be honest. Women complain about men lying but when the actual truth comes out then it is met with anger and contempt so in essence women that complain about men lying you kind of set stage for it to happen by getting angry at male honesty. In a sense its the same way women hate to outright reject men because they are scared men will get angry. Its so much simpler to be honest.
d'Arthez Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 This goes both ways right? Because what one person deems "an honest" perspective is but that, a partial perspective spoken from the point of view of the advice giver. It might be the advice giver's honest opinion, but it cannot be the honest truth, applicable to every possible situation, applying to all humans. Absolutely true; however to get worked up about such things, with little or no relevance will achieve nothing (been there, done that - ah, the folly of youth!). It tends to become an ego-investment, and people end up spending countless hours of their time to defend their position, with little or no relevance to OP. The only benefit might be that they gain a clearer understanding of their own thought. Rarely, if ever do I see, a moment of insight in which either of the people involved in such a diatribe realizes the error of their way(s). With 11,000+ posts on this forum, I am sure your experiences are quite similar Kamille. To OP: Honesty and tact are both very important attributes. A lot of human interactions are based on the fact that people do want to hear a certain answer, but at the same time do not want to be taken for a ride.
ThaWholigan Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Absolutely true; however to get worked up about such things, with little or no relevance will achieve nothing (been there, done that - ah, the folly of youth!). It tends to become an ego-investment, and people end up spending countless hours of their time to defend their position, with little or no relevance to OP. The only benefit might be that they gain a clearer understanding of their own thought. Rarely, if ever do I see, a moment of insight in which either of the people involved in such a diatribe realizes the error of their way(s). With 11,000+ posts on this forum, I am sure your experiences are quite similar Kamille. To OP: Honesty and tact are both very important attributes. A lot of human interactions are based on the fact that people do want to hear a certain answer, but at the same time do not want to be taken for a ride. And the word "TACT" is key here
zengirl Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 That was just an example. All I am just saying is why the big fuss when men are truly honest. If you are honest about something offensive, of course there will be a fuss. The lesson there isn't "Don't be honest then" (though some people will take that away -- immature people) but rather that either your character is incompatible with someone else's or your character has failed you, depending on what the offensive thing is. As to this: In the realm of dating honesty on some level is seen as evil. The woman that is not attract to a man says "I just want to be friends" when honestly she wants to say "I'm not into you". The man that say "I want to be with you" really means "I'm just in it for the sex". Even on this forum the reality of honesty comes under fire. Plenty of men are NOT just in it for the sex, so I'm not sure what you mean. Some may be dishonest in saying that there's more to their attraction, but many are not. Honesty, as I said earlier, doesn't earn you automatic approval for whatever you are to honestly say or do. Your words and actions are still scrutinized for other factors. As to "not disclosing" being the same as lying, I'd disagree UNLESS you are purposefully not disclosing in particular ways. There's no reason to truth-dump on people routinely, though if you feel you have information they need to know, of course you'd need to share it. Part of life and discretion is understanding what that is and where the line to rudeness is.
irin Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 That was an example. I meant real honesty like for example a man can give an honest opinion and he gets called a misogynist or hates women. An example would be a guy saying he did a pump and dump because the woman wasn't relationship material. It is horrible he said it but on that same coin a woman friendzoning some guy is seen by women not as bad. To me a rejection is a rejection. Even something as simple as "How do I look in this dress?". A honest answer from a man evokes anger but you wanted honesty so it becomes that a man in some ways in order to date and even be civil with women must lie. Men and women have become so afraid to actually be honest. Look at the realm of dating "friendzone" or even the I thought he liked me but he only wanted sex. A great majority of problems and bitterness would be eliminated if people would just be honest. Women complain about men lying but when the actual truth comes out then it is met with anger and contempt so in essence women that complain about men lying you kind of set stage for it to happen by getting angry at male honesty. In a sense its the same way women hate to outright reject men because they are scared men will get angry. Its so much simpler to be honest. men are the same, the truth sometimes hurt, the reasons men get friendzoned, is either, a girl actually gets along with the guy, likes him, but the theres is no attraction, and geniunly wants him as a friend. or its much easier to use as an excuse, some guys dont take rejection well, you have no idea how many time ive had to sit and awkwardly explain to guy why i didnt want get with him. sometimes people lie to be polite, its true that honesty is best, but sometimes there no need to express every negative opinion you have, its saves the drama.
Radu Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 Why is men being honest such a bad thing sometimes women? Ex. You complain about men lying about relationships only to want sex. A man actually is honest about it and he gets: "I expects someone to get to know me first" or "i'm not like that" or some other crazy response and complain when it should be a its not what i'm looking for and keep it moving. I got to get off here for a while the negativity is getting to me In the situation above my guess is that she either is not into that, or she simply expects you to claim responsability for her desires by 'manipulating' her into it so that she is guilt free at the end of it.
Author joystickd Posted June 25, 2012 Author Posted June 25, 2012 In the situation above my guess is that she either is not into that, or she simply expects you to claim responsability for her desires by 'manipulating' her into it so that she is guilt free at the end of it. Let me clarify her. My basic thing I am asking is what is the problem with honesty. I will give a better example a woman ask does the dress make her look fat. The man says it does because based on his observations it does and he says yes and she is mad because he is honest. Even the uproar when men say there are men that want relationships stirs emotions and really its the truth not all men are just looking for sex. My question is when it comes to things like that women why the emotion.
zanesfan Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 I agree with the honesty policy. But is everyone going to be honest-- no. Now being honest isnt telling a white lie to get what you want and then when you get it you want to come clean. This is playing games. I do find that many men will tell you want you want to hear to get what the want.. so do women. I rarely find men that will be really upfront about what they want. No bs, no games, no lies... Btw.. joystick what part of NC are you from? Im near Charlotte.
Author joystickd Posted June 25, 2012 Author Posted June 25, 2012 I agree with the honesty policy. But is everyone going to be honest-- no. Now being honest isnt telling a white lie to get what you want and then when you get it you want to come clean. This is playing games. I do find that many men will tell you want you want to hear to get what the want.. so do women. I rarely find men that will be really upfront about what they want. No bs, no games, no lies... Btw.. joystick what part of NC are you from? Im near Charlotte. I'm near Fayetteville 1
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