Disenchantedly Yours Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 ...we/people/society seems to tell women that their questions about their own looks and how it plays a role in their man's life only makes them 'shallow" and "insecure". But when it comes to men, we justify things men do or say in regards to women and their looks. Why do we hold women to a higher standard of not being concerned with their own looks when we don't even hold men to that same standard of not being concerned about their partner's looks? We tell women to "not be insecure" and be understanding about how men will look at other women or lust after them. We justify the way men sometimes behave and treat women and their bodies and looks in regards to their own attraction. But if a woman has questions and fears and issues in this issue, she is told either A) she is shallow. B) she is insecure. 3
LittlePrince Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 ...we/people/society seems to tell women that their questions about their own looks and how it plays a role in their man's life only makes them 'shallow" and "insecure". But when it comes to men, we justify things men do or say in regards to women and their looks. Why do we hold women to a higher standard of not being concerned with their own looks when we don't even hold men to that same standard of not being concerned about their partner's looks? We tell women to "not be insecure" and be understanding about how men will look at other women or lust after them. We justify the way men sometimes behave and treat women and their bodies and looks in regards to their own attraction. But if a woman has questions and fears and issues in this issue, she is told either A) she is shallow. B) she is insecure. Let's biologically re-engineer the human species to meet the standards of political correctness. That sounds like a good idea. Nothing could possibly go wrong. As enlightened, objective individuals our political correctness which popped up a couple decades ago must know better than mother nature and her millions of years of evolutionary trial and error. 1
ThaWholigan Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 I think this is just a case of people holding onto perceptions of men's masculinity and previously acceptable behaviors mirrored against women's femininity and their behavior. It's perhaps not ideal for those who do not adhere to them, or prefer to hold different standards of relating, but as much as I am an open-minded soul, I have always believed that being able to adapt and withstand the waves in society that go against my natural direction will serve me very well and as such they won't bother me. So far I have pretty much been proven right. I think it can be difficult for quite a few women when dealing with a standard being placed upon them, but in my experience, most women tend to rebel against it anyway and behave in a way that is similar to how men are said to "be predisposed to behaving". Much to the chagrin of quite a few men, as we are now seeing on even these boards, where women are said to have "too much power in the dating world", and that men have been reduced to "being disposable unless they are good looking alphas with money and status". Like I say, this doesn't really bother me, and I know a lot of women that aren't so bothered by it either. I think that women nowadays are becoming better at adequately dealing with their insecurities, even though they still exist for a lot of them, they are believing in themselves more to take adequate action. These are just my experiences however, I can't present it as gospel.
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted June 9, 2012 Author Posted June 9, 2012 Huh? My post has nothing to do with being "pc" or even "biology" for that matter. It seems to be more of a socialization thing where we demand and ask women to be more "evolved" about their own looks then we ask men to be about women's looks. We demand women be confident and not evey question or think of their looks within the equation of dating men while we justify male "biology" regarding women's looks. We undually expect women to be more mature and developed regarding the factor looks plays in relationships for women and men specifically regarding female looks. 1
zengirl Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 I don't know what you mean. Personally, I don't expect women or men to behave any differently in relation to this. I think anyone who puts a high emphasis on looks is shallow, male or female. I think women and men are both more likely, if shallow, to put a higher emphasis on women's looks -- though plenty of shallow people put emphasis on male looks too -- but putting a high emphasis on your own looks (good or bad) is still shallow. Many people think it's only shallow if you put a high emphasis on others' looks; personally, I think that's a fallacy. Actually, I'd say women are SUPPOSED to be more concerned with their looks, socialization-wise, than men, who are often chastised in certain male circles for being overly concerned with any kind of beauty regime, etc, excepting workouts. 1
mesmerized Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) I actually agree with you to some degree. You can't set all these beauty standards and then tell women who don't meet them not to be insecure. It's idiotic. However, I think sensitive women like you are more affected by it than me partly because I hold the same type of standards for a man. I'm very vocal about being visual and it can make the men I deal with insecure. But I find that men rarely get as insecure as women do and I guess it's because they are less afraid of being cheated on. Edited June 9, 2012 by mesmerized
joystickd Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 I actually agree with you to some degree. You can't set all these beauty standards and then tell women who don't meet them not to be insecure. It's idiotic. However, I think sensitive women like you are more affected by it than me partly because I hold the same type of standards for a man. I'm very vocal about being visual and it can make the men I deal with insecure. But I find that men rarely get as insecure as women do and I guess it's because they are less afraid of being cheated on. I think its not about not being afraid about being cheated on but accepting that not everyone will like you or feel a certain way about you. A confident man would not be bothered by a woman that held standards like a man.
mesmerized Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 I think its not about not being afraid about being cheated on but accepting that not everyone will like you or feel a certain way about you. A confident man would not be bothered by a woman that held standards like a man. Not always, mostly when he does meet those standards. 1
Oxy Moronovich Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 DY, a woman is considered shallow and insecure when she's ONLY concerned with her looks. It's those women who think getting the most compliments on their looks from as many men as possible is some sort of competition that are shallow. 1
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted June 9, 2012 Author Posted June 9, 2012 But I find that men rarely get as insecure as women do and I guess it's because they are less afraid of being cheated on. I think men are just insecure about different things then their looks. While there is more pressure on men to look a certain way today, it's not equal to the pressure some women can experience. 1
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted June 9, 2012 Author Posted June 9, 2012 DY, a woman is considered shallow and insecure when she's ONLY concerned with her looks. It's those women who think getting the most compliments on their looks from as many men as possible is some sort of competition that are shallow. Right, I could see considering a woman shallow if "ALL" she thinks about is her own looks. But rarely are people that one-deminsional. I'm pretty concerned about looks and messages geared to women about looks. I've seen how it's affected me. I've heard plenty of negative comments from mostly men about my body. Or "suggestions" about how I could "improve". I've seen my past boyfriends ogle other women or be extra flirty with pretty waitresses. I've seen other men out with their wives or kids check me out. I've seen the different way men treated me when I was at my lowest weight. Does that make me shallow because I worry about this stuff sometimes and the part it plays in my relationships with men? Looks are a part of relationships and sexuality. It can move and change as fluidity as any other aspect of relationships between people. I just think it's a little misguided that we more easily hold expectations to women to "evolve" past their own issues with their own looks while we justify the attraction and standards a man may have for women's looks. I don't think I am a shallow person but my looks and how men have treated me has shaped my experiences. I can't deny that.
Leopard Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Probably because women can do so much better than a man, and that's why she is held to a higher standard
mesmerized Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 I think men are just insecure about different things then their looks. While there is more pressure on men to look a certain way today, it's not equal to the pressure some women can experience. Yeah because women are told their whole value is in their looks. It's sad to be a woman in this world. 1
LittlePrince Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Huh? My post has nothing to do with being "pc" or even "biology" for that matter. It seems to be more of a socialization thing where we demand and ask women to be more "evolved" about their own looks then we ask men to be about women's looks. We demand women be confident and not evey question or think of their looks within the equation of dating men while we justify male "biology" regarding women's looks. We undually expect women to be more mature and developed regarding the factor looks plays in relationships for women and men specifically regarding female looks. Women evolved as a support system for the species while men evolved to further the species. All you are seeing is the expression of evolution within the culture of the species.
Leopard Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Women evolved as a support system for the species while men evolved to further the species. All you are seeing is the expression of evolution within the culture of the species. Then why aren't there more beautiful women in the world? If men only want pretty women, then the world should have evolved to have many more prettier women today. But it hasn't.
LittlePrince Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Then why aren't there more beautiful women in the world? If men only want pretty women, then the world should have evolved to have many more prettier women today. But it hasn't. Not only the pretty breed.
Leopard Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Not only the pretty breed. Oh definitely I know that. But my point was that this might not be evolution, because if it was then there would be more prettier women in the world. Since there aren't, the whole standards thing I dont think should be attributed to evolution. Not in this case.
xxoo Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 ...we/people/society seems to tell women that their questions about their own looks and how it plays a role in their man's life only makes them 'shallow" and "insecure". But when it comes to men, we justify things men do or say in regards to women and their looks. Why do we hold women to a higher standard of not being concerned with their own looks when we don't even hold men to that same standard of not being concerned about their partner's looks? We tell women to "not be insecure" and be understanding about how men will look at other women or lust after them. We justify the way men sometimes behave and treat women and their bodies and looks in regards to their own attraction. But if a woman has questions and fears and issues in this issue, she is told either A) she is shallow. B) she is insecure. It depends on what you mean by looking and lusting. Is it an occasional head turn, or a constant occurrence when out? It is a passing thought when in this woman's company, or maybe when alone in the shower, or is it seeking out images of other women daily to lust over? I justify the former, but would advise to dump that latter. Right, I could see considering a woman shallow if "ALL" she thinks about is her own looks. But rarely are people that one-deminsional. Flip that, and that is how I feel about men on this subject. 1
joystickd Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Then why aren't there more beautiful women in the world? If men only want pretty women, then the world should have evolved to have many more prettier women today. But it hasn't. There are pretty women out here. Beauty is a very subjective thing and is different for many men and not what the fringe females have you to believe to be a universal set of standards. Men are different and many like different types of women. 2
RedRobin Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 We demand women be confident and not evey question or think of their looks within the equation of dating men while we justify male "biology" regarding women's looks. We undually expect women to be more mature and developed regarding the factor looks plays in relationships for women and men specifically regarding female looks. I don't know about the 'we' in the statements above. It is more correct, in my experience, that women are obliged to develop a thicker skin when it comes to their appearances because we are put on parade as marketing tools and worse. The fact that some men justify their poor choices based on some assanine 'biology' claim only indicates their lack of maturity in general. These men are easily avoided IRL once women know what to look for. It is just unfortunate for many women that they don't have strong female mentors and strong male mentors to help them sort that out. 2
ThaWholigan Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 I don't know about the 'we' in the statements above. It is more correct, in my experience, that women are obliged to develop a thicker skin when it comes to their appearances because we are put on parade as marketing tools and worse. The fact that some men justify their poor choices based on some assanine 'biology' claim only indicates their lack of maturity in general. These men are easily avoided IRL once women know what to look for. It is just unfortunate for many women that they don't have strong female mentors and strong male mentors to help them sort that out. I would agree, but I would also say that many men also lack strong male & female mentors as well. I would also say that while somebody like you would put it down to "poor" choices, realize that some people simply have a different ideal when it comes to relationships, dating and sex. So I have come to realize anyway.....
Oxy Moronovich Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Right, I could see considering a woman shallow if "ALL" she thinks about is her own looks. But rarely are people that one-deminsional. I'm pretty concerned about looks and messages geared to women about looks. I've seen how it's affected me. I've heard plenty of negative comments from mostly men about my body. Or "suggestions" about how I could "improve". I've seen my past boyfriends ogle other women or be extra flirty with pretty waitresses. I've seen other men out with their wives or kids check me out. I've seen the different way men treated me when I was at my lowest weight. Does that make me shallow because I worry about this stuff sometimes and the part it plays in my relationships with men? Looks are a part of relationships and sexuality. It can move and change as fluidity as any other aspect of relationships between people. I just think it's a little misguided that we more easily hold expectations to women to "evolve" past their own issues with their own looks while we justify the attraction and standards a man may have for women's looks. I don't think I am a shallow person but my looks and how men have treated me has shaped my experiences. I can't deny that. A woman is shallow and insecure when she thinks she has to "compete" with other women for the attention of as many men as possible. And no, that type of woman is not rare. There are many, many women who think there's some sort of "competition" amongst women for getting as much male attention as possible.
MrNate 2.0 Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Jersey Shortie, is that you? These posts are starting to seem familiar. 1
FitChick Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 You can't control what others think and feel. You can only control yourself. If you are worried that your appearance is somehow lacking, do something about it. Then you will have one less thing to worry about. Every culture around the world since the beginning of time has had their own particular standards of beauty and not everyone lived up to them because everyone is different. I think women have it easier than men because it's easier to change your looks than for a man to change his career and make more money, which is important to a lot of women.
mesmerized Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 I think women have it easier than men because it's easier to change your looks than for a man to change his career and make more money, which is important to a lot of women. BS. I think it's much easier for me to find a way to make much more money than it is to find a way to be a thin tall blond girl with huge boobs Get real. 2
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