123321 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 This comment has no bearing on the portion of my post you quoted. It applies to every argument against decriminalization in the thread, no matter what the "class" of the prostitute.
nofool4u Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Apparently you are wrong. "In the United Kingdom, prostitution itself (the exchange of sexual services for money) is not a crime" Well then that would take care of Elswyth's comparison of cultures then. But the guy is still putting up with her boning other men and enjoying it while she does it for some odd reason. Oh well.
threebyfate Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I sit here and think, why should people who have nothing to gain from supporting prostitution, support prostitution when hookers don't care about anyone else but themselves?
somedude81 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 All this talk of prostitution. Anybody want to buy me one for my birthday?
ThaWholigan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I sit here and think, why should people who have nothing to gain from supporting prostitution, support prostitution when hookers don't care about anyone else but themselves? I neither support nor am I against prostitution. I don't see the point of it being illegal, but beyond that, I'm neutral. My only stance was that of curiosity and devil's advocate (admittedly). Also considering the POV of the inexperienced man whose only intimate contact may possibly be with hookers.
ThaWholigan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 All this talk of prostitution. Anybody want to buy me one for my birthday? I'd buy you a hooker and a life coach 1
threebyfate Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I neither support nor am I against prostitution. I don't see the point of it being illegal, but beyond that, I'm neutral. My only stance was that of curiosity and devil's advocate (admittedly). Also considering the POV of the inexperienced man whose only intimate contact may possibly be with hookers.Prior to this thread with input from an actual hooker, I supported making prostitution legal. After reading the attitude of the hooker, the lack of caring about impacts to others as collateral damage for her monetary greed, I've shifted my stance to be anti-legalizing prostitution. 1
somedude81 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I'd buy you a hooker and a life coach You've got that kind of money? How about a hooking life coach? She gives me guidance and BJ's
ThaWholigan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Prior to this thread with input from an actual hooker, I supported making prostitution legal. After reading the attitude of the hooker, the lack of caring about impacts to others as collateral damage for her monetary greed, I've shifted my stance to be anti-legalizing prostitution. What collateral damage? I already asked her how many of her clients were married or attached, and she indicated that it was very little of them. Perhaps it was when she implied that it was no fault of hers that married men would come to seek her services. That is understandable that one would experience a shift in stance. I haven't shifted on mine though. I still think it is the man's prerogative at the end of the day, and he must shoulder the blame if he is seeking out hookers. I'm sure most of them do not disclose their status half the time either, but I'm not well versed on the exploits of prostitutes and their clients outside of anecdotes from a few prostitutes themselves, both offline and now online. As well as clients I know, who have also repeatedly attempted to persuade me to become a client myself, to which I have continued to decline. Maybe we should legalize prostitution but make it illegal to married/attached men?? . I think there is a good market for sex therapy for inexperienced men personally.......
ThaWholigan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) You've got that kind of money? How about a hooking life coach? She gives me guidance and BJ's You've given me a great business idea . If I get it off the ground, you'll be my 1st customer loool. Wonder how that would go down with the girl lol.... Somedude: So, what can I do to get a girlfriend? Coach: *slurp slurp* well, first you need to have a little confidence. I would say that you need to learn how to be charming, I can teach you later.....*slurp slurp* Somedude: Uh huh. Oh yeah, how can an endomorph get a six pack? Coach: *lick* uhh, I think it would be better for you to cook more vegetables and lean meats, maybe try more intense cardio?? I have a great method, I'll show you after...... Somedude: Sure you will I have a disgusting mind sometimes - don't hold it against me Edited June 18, 2012 by ThaWholigan 1
ThaWholigan Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Hey Casey is in the UK, maybe she wants in? Well 1st we need to find girls who are sexually expressive, are good at advice, give great head, and like inexperienced/socially awkward guys I'm chuckling as I'm writing this, it's so stupid and wrong, but potentially a financial goldmine .
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I sit here and think, why should people who have nothing to gain from supporting prostitution, support prostitution when hookers don't care about anyone else but themselves? I bet that hookers are as likely to care about people other than themselves as anyone. 4
threebyfate Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 What collateral damage? I already asked her how many of her clients were married or attached, and she indicated that it was very little of them.This conflicts with her other response about deliberately not wanting to know the marital status of her clients, that their marital status was irrelevant. Either she knows or doesn't. Perhaps it was when she implied that it was no fault of hers that married men would come to seek her services. That is understandable that one would experience a shift in stance. Yes. While I don't fear my husband using hookers, there are enough women who have issues within their marriages with hooker usage. There's not only monetary cost and emotional alienation to one partner for the other partner's usage of hookers but also potential cost to the children, both monetarily and emotionally when families sever through emotional trauma from cheating. When I say sever, this doesn't just relate to divorce but alienation of affection and respect between partners that's so key to familial cohesion and is a huge part of how children build their conceptual understanding of relationships that can translate to ineffectual adult relationships. I haven't shifted on mine though. I still think it is the man's prerogative at the end of the day, and he must shoulder the blame if he is seeking out hookers. I'm sure most of them do not disclose their status half the time either, but I'm not well versed on the exploits of prostitutes and their clients outside of anecdotes from a few prostitutes themselves, both offline and now online. As well as clients I know, who have also repeatedly attempted to persuade me to become a client myself, to which I have continued to decline.No doubt the cheater's heavily responsible but from my perspective, so is the hooker who finds her customer's marital status irrelevant when juxtaposed against selfish monetary gain. Glad you haven't bent but as a single guy, you don't have further responsibilities to anyone except your own self-worth. Maybe we should legalize prostitution but make it illegal to married/attached men?? . I think there is a good market for sex therapy for inexperienced men personally.......Doubt that would work or help since hookers will just deny knowledge and as always, deny culpability.
threebyfate Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I bet that hookers are as likely to care about people other than themselves as anyone.I bet you're wrong.
123321 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Well then that would take care of Elswyth's comparison of cultures then. But the guy is still putting up with her boning other men and enjoying it while she does it for some odd reason. Oh well. While I'm not into the lifestyle, having an "open relationship" isn't "cheating" in any way. I sit here and think, why should people who have nothing to gain from supporting prostitution, support prostitution when hookers don't care about anyone else but themselves? Because they support the concept of basic human rights being extended to all. 1
nofool4u Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 While I'm not into the lifestyle, having an "open relationship" isn't "cheating" in any way. Is it open? Does her bf get to have sex with other women too? I only heard that he puts up with it and that he doesn't want to hear about it.
Els Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Is it open? Does her bf get to have sex with other women too? I only heard that he puts up with it and that he doesn't want to hear about it. You likely need to read more about what an 'open relationship' is. You haven't answered my question. Is a man with multiple wives, as is the accepted norm in some cultures, 'cheating on his wife(s)'? Not whether it is 'legal', or something you consider admirable or 'okay'. Is it cheating?
nofool4u Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 You likely need to read more about what an 'open relationship' is. I know what one is. Problem is, is casey's relationship an open one or not. She hasn't said. In other words, is it closed, but because of her occupation are those altercations overlooked? Are they allowed to see other people for reasons other than prostitution. You haven't answered my question. Is a man with multiple wives, as is the accepted norm in some cultures, 'cheating on his wife(s)'? Not whether it is 'legal', or something you consider admirable or 'okay'. Is it cheating? I did answer it, go back and read.
KathyM Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I sit here and think, why should people who have nothing to gain from supporting prostitution, support prostitution when hookers don't care about anyone else but themselves? Well, I sit here and think, why would people support prostitution if it enables a damaging and destructive lifestyle for the prostitute, and hurts families negatively affected by it, and enables the trafficking of women and children, and exploits women and children, and reduces them to pieces of meat to be bought and sold, not to mention puts them at risk of violence and even death. Why anyone can support an industry like that and think that it is harmless is beyond me.
Els Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I know what one is. Problem is, is casey's relationship an open one or not. She hasn't said. In other words, is it closed, but because of her occupation are those altercations overlooked? Are they allowed to see other people for reasons other than prostitution. An open relationship is one where one or more partners are able to sleep with other people with the other partner's knowledge. I did answer it, go back and read. No, you said you didn't think that having multiple wives was 'okay'. But you didn't say you thought it was cheating. Based on this reply, I'll assume you think it's cheating, then. Do you really think a large portion of the Middle East and Asia, as well as many Muslims and Mormons, are 'cheating' on their partners, then? And that the women who consent to the deal (assuming consent is given, and if it is not, that is a separate problem, not related to cheating) are 'being cheated on'?
nofool4u Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 An open relationship is one where one or more partners are able to sleep with other people with the other partner's knowledge. Nah, really? So I'll ask again, is this what they have? Is he allowed to do this too? Because that question has gone unanswered by her. Are both of them allowed to sleep with other people aside from prostitution? In other words, are BOTH allowed to sleep with other people purely for pleasure? We already know he puts up with her hooking. No, you said you didn't think that having multiple wives was 'okay'. But you didn't say you thought it was cheating. j Again read my reply. I don't believe I have to write it again. You asked "But is it cheating", and I said that I believe it is. Just because its a culture doesn't mean the wives are ok with it. Do you really think a large portion of the Middle East and Asia, as well as many Muslims and Mormons, are 'cheating' on their partners, then? I'm sure the men that are allowed to do this don't believe they are cheating. Some of the women may not feel it is either. But if it isn't cheating, then why aren't the women allowed? And that the women who consent to the deal (assuming consent is given, and if it is not, that is a separate problem, not related to cheating) are 'being cheated on'? The women in those countries have no choice. Therefore their consent is not required or wanted.
Els Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Nah, really? So I'll ask again, is this what they have? Is he allowed to do this too? Because that question has gone unanswered by her. Are both of them allowed to sleep with other people aside from prostitution? In other words, are BOTH allowed to sleep with other people purely for pleasure? We already know he puts up with her hooking. I said one or more. The point isn't about reciprocation. Sure, reciprocation might be an issue, but the other person can choose to leave because he has all the facts open to him. This is different from cheating because the person cheated on cannot make an informed choice without having all the facts. Again read my reply. I don't believe I have to write it again. You asked "But is it cheating", and I said that I believe it is. Just because its a culture doesn't mean the wives are ok with it. Some wives choose it for themselves. Some believe it is the Will of God . Some want a good provider, and the men who seek multiple wives are required by law to be able to provide for all of them. And so on and so forth. The point, again, is that they made an informed choice, assuming that there was consent. If there wasn't consent, it's called a breach of human rights, not cheating. Yes, that happens a lot of the time in many countries. Yes, lack of consent isn't okay. But it is to cheating what apples are to oranges. I'm sure the men that are allowed to do this don't believe they are cheating. Some of the women may not feel it is either. But if it isn't cheating, then why aren't the women allowed? How should I know why certain cultures and religions allow it? Again, you STILL miss the point. Here it is: cheat [cheet] Show IPA verb (used with object) 1. to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance. 2. to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero. 3. to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide. verb (used without object) 4. to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets. Note that all of the definitions are related to FRAUD. Cheating is sleeping with another person while trying to make your spouse believe that you aren't. The women in those countries have no choice. Therefore their consent is not required or wanted. You haven't spoken to many modern Muslims/Mormons who voluntarily participate in polygyny, have you? Edited June 19, 2012 by Elswyth
nofool4u Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) How should I know why certain cultures and religions allow it? You asked the question as if you knew and were leading towards a point. Again, you STILL miss the point. Here it is: cheat [cheet] Show IPA verb (used with object) 1. to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance. 2. to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero. 3. to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide. verb (used without object) 4. to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets. Note that all of the definitions are related to FRAUD. Cheating is sleeping with another person while trying to make your spouse believe that you aren't. Wrong, and point not missed. Cheating can still be cheating if the spouse/bf/gf know about the cheating. Even if there is knowledge of the cheating and the cheater makes it known, its still cheating. You made the statement as if its only cheating if the spouse doesn't know about it. This is untrue. You haven't spoken to many modern Muslims/Mormons who voluntarily participate in polygyny, have you? Don't ask silly questions. If its the law, or custom in other countries, then the women have no choice. They either put up with it, or they refuse to get married. And in some cases, even getting married isn't their choice. There is no choice as to whether its voluntary. Volunteerism isn't required in certain countries. But I will agree that, if we get back to the premise of this thread and the admitted hooker in this thread, that her bf, lover, whatever, knows she is hooking, then its his choice to stay with her. My question was just about curiosity as to whether she would have a problem with her bf going out and getting his strange as well. I would hope not given her comments about her enjoying having sex with all of her John's, even though she came back later and said its not about enjoyment for her. Edited June 19, 2012 by nofool4u
Els Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Wrong, and point not missed. Cheating can still be cheating if the spouse/bf/gf know about the cheating. Even if there is knowledge of the cheating and the cheater makes it known, its still cheating. You made the statement as if its only cheating if the spouse doesn't know about it. This is untrue. Would you please quote evidence of this fact? Last I heard, in all accounts about cheating, the cheater didn't let them BS know up front and the BS didn't say, "Sure, I'm cool with that." Don't ask silly questions. If its the law, or custom in other countries, then the women have no choice. They either put up with it, or they refuse to get married. And in some cases, even getting married isn't their choice. How is that a silly question? Do you really think there are NO modern Muslims or Mormons who opt for polygyny out of CHOICE? I personally don't understand why they would, but to say they don't exist is incredibly narrow-minded. I can't believe you've never heard of such. But I will agree that, if we get back to the premise of this thread and the admitted hooker in this thread, that her bf, lover, whatever, knows she is hooking, then its his choice to stay with her. My question was just about curiosity as to whether she would have a problem with her bf going out and getting his strange as well. I agree with all of that. Things snowballed when you persistently insisted that it was CHEATING.
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