KathyM Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 You are deliberately and intentionally misconstruing my words. But if that is what you need to do to "win" an argument' date=' all the power to you.[/quote'] Your words were: " There will be tens of thousands of women who engage in transactional sex in Sweden alone. Except that most of them are called "girlfriend" or "wife". I think it's pretty fair for me to interpret that statement the way I did.
d'Arthez Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Except that your interpretation is completely baseless. As I said repeatedly, people engage in behaviors that are technically prostitution (the exchange of money for sexual favors - have you ever been in a high school since 1960?), but which rarely get called prostitution. Same with underage children taking cell phone pictures of genitalia. Technically that is child pornography. But it rarely gets called such. Oh wait, now you are going to call me a pedophile? And research has actually shown that only 30% of all the prostitution in the Netherlands is done by hookers and escorts. Fact. Some women engage in sex for cell phones, clothes and all that. Just because I state that someone engages in such a behavior does not mean I support people engaging in such behavior. Or can I quote any post of yours and state that whatever you express has your full moral support? Apparently so. Do you want me to make the effort? 1
nofool4u Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Good/ Decent. Any way you want to dress it up it's all relative! Without reading all the posts in this thread, but reading a couple interactions between you and another poster, I have to ask the question, are you a hooker?
nofool4u Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Umm, weren't you the one asking about how to negotiate with hookers again? Ya, but it was just a matter of curiosity after seeing those 20/20 reports. Never been to one, don't need to, never will. Was just thinking if getting arrested for being with a hooker hinges on the acceptance of a price in exchange for sexual services, I figured the guys would be smart enough to say, "oh no, I don't pay for sex, but I can give you some money if you need some" Was wondering if wording things a different way would hold up in court.
A O Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 The focus does always seem to be on blaming the woman, in these discussions about prostitution. The focus, if there is such a thing here, is on freedom of choice. The blame game, aka, victimization of women pales in comparison. Regardless, I think people in the mainstream generally view men who regularly frequent prostitutes as being part of an undesirable subculture (which the prostitute is also a part of)....and this study outlines why. The kind of strong anti-social elements and attitudes that lead a person to be okay with the notion of renting another human being's body. Society looks down upon these men more than thinking of them as being part of a subculture. Society doesn’t view the exchange in the manner that you or your study has depicted here. Its easy to see why the men involved are seen as undesirable, antisocial – can’t really be part of mainstream society - when tagged with that notion. Who really speaks for those women? You? Casey? In a topic that generally depicts those involved as poor, hapless victims or losers it does make a change to get a different perspective. That perspective doesn’t take away from anything you or others with similar inclinations to yourself espouse – it simply reminds people that there’s actually another side to all of this. . So if prostitution were legalized do you think it would cause the number of men interested in using prostitution to increase more, or would it cause the number of women interested in being prostitutes to increase more? Again, to use my country as an example – there hasn’t been significant change in anything. That means no increase in demand. But that also means that violent acts against prostitutes hasn’t decreased either. Not a lot has changed other than better relations with the police and a few added regulations for the industry. .
joystickd Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 So now you're making this an issue of women in general using men for money. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, dear boy. Women have money of their own, believe it or not. They also have other things to offer to a relationship besides sex. Men have more than just their wallet to bring to the relationship. Why you insist on reducing men to nothing but a wallet, and women to nothing but a sex object is beyond me. But in any case, I'm not interested in engaging in any kitchen sink debates, so I'll be going to have my lunch now. Have a good day. Work on that issue of contempt for women that you seem to have. There are a lot of men that think at some point you are going to pay for sex whether long or short term. I will say there are contract marriages that go on. I don't stay far from Ft Bragg and I will say there a quite a few contract marriages. In that context its no different than a prostitute because there is a business transaction happening but this about why people think so lowly of prostitutes. In regards to that I will say its the thought of selling sex. We all value sex and the thought selling that level of intimacy bothers a lot of people.
somedude81 Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Without reading all the posts in this thread, but reading a couple interactions between you and another poster, I have to ask the question, are you a hooker? No, she's a professional wrestler. 2
nofool4u Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 No, she's a professional wrestler. very funny LOL I found the post that confirmed it. Just read a couple posts and wasn't sure if it was sarcasm. Certainly explains her taking issue with my comments on a decent man wanting anything to do with that.
casey1989 Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) I've already replied to my stance and experience personally. Though I do think it's worth noting that it's not as frowned upon in the UK as it is in the US. I have a boyfriend who knows what I do. He doesn't want to hear all the grizzly details but he is there to get me a cup of tea at the end of the day and listens when I've had a frustrating day. I know a few girls who are married- very happily. One of my friends is engaged. Some girls are single, they prefer it that way. You know, just like *normal* people. One day I would like to get married, but that time is a very, very long time away, I'm too young to handle such a big commitment like that. If I am still doing it, then I would be completely honest. There is really no other way to be. But as I have said before, I am still training in my preferred profession, and will not be in this 'forever'. I can't be bothered to lie, it's too much effort. Men for me go into two camps: ones that can deal with it and ones that can't. As long as you are honest from the beginning then there are no false expectations. Honesty is really the key if you want a relationship and this job. I should also add I'll always be honest about my past. And my partner is the sweetest, loving most loyal man a girl is ever to find. I'm incredibly lucky, but then, so is he Edited June 15, 2012 by casey1989
nofool4u Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 I've already replied to my stance and experience personally. Though I do think it's worth noting that it's not as frowned upon in the UK as it is in the US. I should also add I'll always be honest about my past. And my partner is the sweetest, loving most loyal man a girl is ever to find. I'm incredibly lucky, but then, so is he Loyal man to an unloyal woman? That, my dear, is the definition of a cuckold.
casey1989 Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Loyal man to an unloyal woman? That, my dear, is the definition of a cuckold. It's my job. I'm not going to get into the whole 'it's cheating, because a client puts his penis in you' debate. My partner is happy, and I am happy and that is all that matters.
nofool4u Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 It's my job. I'm not going to get into the whole 'it's cheating, because a client puts his penis in you' debate. You know, I "might" be able to agree that its your job if you really hated what you did and only do it because you have no other means to make good money. But you already said you love it because you love sex and love having sex with different men. Therefore its cheating. And your partner being ok with that doesn't negate that fact. He just puts up with it. But hey, you found a man that is willing to be a doormat cuckold. Some guys are willing to settle for being that because they can't get anything better. My partner is happy, and I am happy and that is all that matters. And if your partner has a change of heart and tells you he wants you to stop? What would you do?
casey1989 Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 You know, I "might" be able to agree that its your job if you really hated what you did and only do it because you have no other means to make good money. But you already said you love it because you love sex and love having sex with different men. Therefore its cheating. And your partner being ok with that doesn't negate that fact. He just puts up with it. But hey, you found a man that is willing to be a doormat cuckold. Some guys are willing to settle for being that because they can't get anything better. And if your partner has a change of heart and tells you he wants you to stop? What would you do? Lol he knows what he signed up for. He has his own mind. He can decide for himself whether it's cheating or not. It's certainly not your place to judge or make him out to be some kind of victim! You seem to be looking at it like I have this jolly old time, when he's just sitting home alone pining for me. Well unless you missed the ENTIRE thread, it obviously isn't the case. And much to many people's surprise it can be very hard work. But I'm not going to try waste my breath on why it's not actually cheating- because I can't be bothered, and it's a subjective thing anyway (well to those not involved in the industry). It depends does he expect me to quit straight away? is he going to take over my financial commitments? Or does he expect me to quit, and then go bankrupt? Is he going to pay for my career training? Of course I would like to say I would because I love him. But in reality, it would be giving up my future career for the relationship, unless he could support me financially. As I am only 21, would I be willing to do that for a relationship that is so young? In the end what WOULD happen is that we'd make an 'exit date'. This is a point in time which I would plan to come out of it, and have everything sorted so that I could. We have the same plan if anything ever happened to me, and I wanted to stop for any reason.
123321 Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 On account of Casey's input, this discussion has turned into one about call girls/elite prostitutes who work discreetly from home and have wealthy clients. However, the thread title is about "hookers"...a name which suggests "street-walker" due to the connotations of active solicitation. The argument is much like the contention that legalizing distilled alcoholic drinks will increase alcoholism. It. Doesn't. Matter.
johan Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 The argument is much like the contention that legalizing distilled alcoholic drinks will increase alcoholism. It. Doesn't. Matter. I don't think it's that simple. Surely restricting access to alcohol is going to cause some people not to drink. It would be naive to think it would eliminate alcoholism. But it would be equally naive to think it wouldn't reduce it. How much is hard to say. Would it be worth the cost? Probably not. Prohibition was a costly policy that didn't last very long. Prostitution has been illegal for decades, centuries, and the cost to society has been low.
123321 Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 You didn't answer my question though. What do you think would happen if legalization occurs? Does the demand go up? If you think not, why not? Possibly, and who cares? If the demand causes other issues, deal with them in a way that doesn't violate anyone's reasonable right to do as they want with their own body.
123321 Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 .... the cost to society has been low. You know that how?
johan Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 You know that how? Because if it had been high, like the cost of prohibition was high, it would have been reversed. Cost-benefit. Whatever the costs happened to be, they weren't high enough to bring change.
123321 Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 Because if it had been high, like the cost of prohibition was high, it would have been reversed. Cost-benefit. Whatever the costs happened to be, they weren't high enough to bring change. Or maybe it's just that discouraging promiscuity in all forms was beneficial to survival for all that time and not so critical now.
johan Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 Or maybe it's just that discouraging promiscuity in all forms was beneficial to survival for all that time and not so critical now. That's a theory. But I don't see a big movement toward legalization. I doubt many people would figure the benefits of legalization to be worth really bothering too much.
123321 Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 That's a theory. But I don't see a big movement toward legalization. Look at a map, or this thread. It took a good many decades before "living together" was something people stopped trying to hide at all costs too. A growing number of people in the world are rethinking the concepts of marriage and all the things that trickle down from it. The stigma attached to fornication was an early victim, and more will follow as the focus on human rights continues to bear fruit.
Els Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 You know, I "might" be able to agree that its your job if you really hated what you did and only do it because you have no other means to make good money. But you already said you love it because you love sex and love having sex with different men. Therefore its cheating. And your partner being ok with that doesn't negate that fact. He just puts up with it. But hey, you found a man that is willing to be a doormat cuckold. Some guys are willing to settle for being that because they can't get anything better. I don't understand what's up with you. What would you say to a woman who was married to a man who had other wives, as is the case in some other societies? Are they all being cheated on, as well? Surely they are by your definition, because the guy is putting his penis in multiple women while they only have sex with him. Cheating is defined by the very word 'cheat'. If it is previously agreed upon, the other person makes an informed decision to stay, and full honesty is provided, it isn't cheating. 2
Taramere Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 The argument is much like the contention that legalizing distilled alcoholic drinks will increase alcoholism. It. Doesn't. Matter. This comment has no bearing on the portion of my post you quoted.
nofool4u Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 I don't understand what's up with you. What would you say to a woman who was married to a man who had other wives, as is the case in some other societies? Depends on the society. I still don't agree with it seeing as those wives are not allowed to have multiple men. But that is their culture. But correct me if I'm wrong, prostitution isn't legal in the UK, is it? Are they all being cheated on, as well? Seeing as the wives aren't allowed, I'd say so. But this isn't about that and what their culture considers normal. Again, if prostitution is legal in the UK, then this comparison fits. Surely they are by your definition Yes, I think so, whats your point? because the guy is putting his penis in multiple women while they only have sex with him. Yup. But if thats their culture, then they simply have to put up with it. I don't agree with it, but its what they do. Again, is this the culture in the UK? I don't believe so. Cheating is defined by the very word 'cheat'. If it is previously agreed upon, the other person makes an informed decision to stay, and full honesty is provided, it isn't cheating. Whether cheating or not, I did say he is a cuckold. One of the definitions of a cuckold is a man married to an unfaithful wife(yes I know they aren't married, but common law may just be around the corner). So he is basically an unmarried cuckold. Cheating or not, and I'll go ahead and assume not since he allows it, she still is being unfaithful. Point was she said she does it because she loves sex with all the different men. So she IS sexually unfaithful. So he should be allowed to have sex with different women too. But since he does allow it, he has to deal with it. If he is ok with it, thats on him. My point earlier was that no decent man is going to want someone who was a hooker.
123321 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 But correct me if I'm wrong, prostitution isn't legal in the UK, is it? Apparently you are wrong. "In the United Kingdom, prostitution itself (the exchange of sexual services for money) is not a crime"
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