Els Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 I have admitted more than once that statistics are not perfect and are subject to problems. If we really wanted to get to the truth of rape statistics in the US versus Kazakhstan, we would have to do a lot more digging. I would never claim in any discussion or debate that I know for a fact those rape statistics are wrong, because I don't, I simply indicated my offhand suspicion. Nor would I claim I know which way they are wrong. It is true that common sense and logic play a role in interpreting statistics, but that doesn't mean that they can completely trump all possible statistics or free one from the necessity of looking at and discussing statistics. I agree, but you did not dig for opposing statistics before saying that you don't believe the rape statistics, did you? And you have every right to not believe them. Equally so, I am free to disbelieve those that I personally find illogical, without needing to quote opposing ones. To be perfectly honest, I view the accuracy of the majority of social science statistics with a healthy amount of cynicism, not just this one. Lacking that, the second discussion I wanted to have was regarding evidence of whether legalization is going to overall harm or help people. I presented some indicating it would overall harm. It's not impossible I would change my point of view on this question, but I’m not going to do it because somebody presents anecdotal evidence from their personal life. Then there is no point in us talking about this. To me, it's like you saying, "I refuse to believe that the sun sets in the west unless there are recent studies saying it is so." Well... there aren't any. All I can tell you is that I personally see the sun setting in the west, and give you logic that explains why it does. If that isn't enough, it isn't worth convincing you. I hope you don't take this as a personal slight, but I'm curious why you require studies for everything that someone says, but you have posted a lot about a specific faith that you believe in, that is most definitely not the product of rigorous academic study. Surely that alone must suggest to you that academia does not explain everything in life? If someone tells you that you cannot possibly say that heaven exists because there are no studies that say it does, what are you going to say? Some men who would not go to prostitutes before would likely choose to start if legal brothels were available. The ones who were already going to illegal ones would continue going to either legal or illegal ones. The demand would increase. Scott I still don't see how this makes logical sense. The men who start going to brothels when they are legalized and did not go before... why did they not go before? Because they were illegal. Then why would they start going to illegal brothels only after prostitution is legalized? How does the enactment of legal brothels suddenly encourage them to pursue illegal ones? 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 I advertise jobs on Craigslist sometimes, and I've bought things on there, and met roommates on there, and I've never ONCE clicked on Casual Encounters. No one is tempting me or encouraging me to do so. I've clicked on it! I can't resist. But I was in no way tempted or lured to do so by the hoards of evil Jezebels. For anyone who's interested, I saw more posts from guys who wanted to display their schlong on the Internet than from sex selling ladies. But, none of my prurient snooping has resulted in sexy popups on my computer. Must be my Mac. What an ugly view. Why the need to compete sexually with other women? I know. It is depressing. I think that perceiving the fact that there are people in the world (billions of them) who will have sex without being married to their sex partner - prostitutes or not - as a threat to ones marriage must be a horrible way to live. I also just don't get the "seduction" thing. Hookers aren't trying to seduce anyone generally; they usually are perfectly able to find willing men who need no seduction. Agreed. I think that prostitution will never go away partly because of that very fact. Plenty of men, for a variety of reasons, like to obtain sex as part of a business kind of transaction, with none of the challenges, vagaries etc involved with things like dating, flirting, seduction, etc.
dasein Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) If customers of prostitution want underage girls, or to not use condoms, that is not tangential to prostitution. It is an inseparable part of the issue. It is tangential, because unlike prostitution in and of itself, no one here is suggesting legalizing child abuse or condoning unsafe sex. Unless you can demonstrate that legalized prostitution somehow increases child abuse or unsafe sex, these are nonissues. I presented evidence that in Australia when they legalized prostitution it didn't get rid of the illegal prostitution or trafficking, demonstrating that they were not able to fill the demand otherwise. What you presented was a raw correlation from a social scientist who is likely biased on the issue, not any kind of causative research or study. The only proper venue for evaluating effects of legal prostitution in the U.S. is Nevada, not Australia. I don't have an informed opinion about how prostitution, legalization of same, or enforcement is conducted worldwide, what goes on in Amsterdam or Australia. What I do know is that the U.S. government, including states, represents the nastiest regulatory bureaucracy on the face of the planet, maybe even in history, far worse than the Chinese, and well able to craft and enforce legalized prostitution to an obnoxious degree if it wants. So, you are willing to believe the word of one person posting on an anonymous forum over a study in a peer-reviewed journal? What I believe is that the "human trafficking" issue of prostitution is exaggerated towards feminist ends. The ARTICLE that 123321 posted supports this, and I don't need to go further into the stats to know what I will find. That is indicative of how much time I've wasted trying to find a single feminist oriented statistic that wasn't cooked or flat out made up. I don't think it's worth it providing you data from Nevada. You have made it clear that for any data I provide you will just dismiss it as “feminist” propaganda. If you want to have a discussion post some data of your own, as I already have, and we can talk about whose data is better. You haven't any high ground here, as you haven't posted anything supporting that legalized prostitution increases slavery trafficking as a matter of causality. If you live in the U.S., research Nevada or don't. I don't care, and stand by my contention that legalized prostitution in the U.S. will actually stamp out any illicit human trade in the U.S. over time, which is admittedly a product of economic and market speculation on my part. It sounds like you have already made up your mind to the point of not being interested in any evidence to the contrary. There's some truth to that. But you haven't done much better with assertions from a single Australian social scientist. I have wasted hours and hours trying to find accuracy in so many feminist claims that I'm not really interested in spending my time looking into human sex traffic. I know before looking that I will find that it is extremely isolated, anomalous behavior that has been exaggerated to a noxious degree towards femleftist ends of painting women as victims and men as victimizers. I also know that whatever I find, you and others here will go on believing whatever it is you believe now despite any evidence or reasoned argument I produce, so why waste my time? I get nothing out of it. Edited June 13, 2012 by dasein 1
123321 Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 But you have to click on Casual Encounters to get there, and anyone with any understanding of the English language would understand what was there. It's not ALL hookers, as I understand, but it is all sex. Out of curiosity I looked in there, it's 2-3 layers of clicking and the 6-8 ads I looked at, none had pictures and none mentioned money. I was looking in the Bay Area because that's what I have bookmarked for picking up contracts. So, you are willing to believe the word of one person posting on an anonymous forum over a study in a peer-reviewed journal? Well if it's an important issue for you, $2000 (airfare and expenses) and a week of your time will get you a personal look and chat with many of 1000's of women working as prostitutes here. Bring earplugs, the locals often turn the music up way too loud in some of the venues. The ARTICLE that 123321 posted supports this, and I don't need to go further into the stats to know what I will find. That was just a small recent raid, they happen periodically, usually to help secure foreign aid or head off bad publicity. The problem that they have is many faceted but the one I quoted is very typical. Basically, the only thing the bar is actually (maybe) guilty of is employing a woman age 17 when no one under 18 is supposed to work in a bar. Even that is hard to know for sure in a place like this where birth records are scant; in fact in a case like this if solid evidence one way or the other is not presented, law enforcement will resort to inspecting a persons TEETH (like a horse) to determine if, as this case, she is 17 years 8 months or 18 years 1 day old. Did you notice the point that the women are assumed guilty and held until they can PROVE they are innocent? In one infamous IJM (International Justice Mission) coordinated raid in the region cops were caught on CCTV raping some of the "rescued" women before taking them into custody. This is reportedly a common occurrence but obviously not often caught on videotape AND made public. Where are the statistics on that one? I don't care, and stand by my contention that legalized prostitution in the U.S. will actually stamp out any illicit human trade in the U.S. over time, which is admittedly a product of economic and market speculation on my part. People will always break laws but, for instance, moonshine operations are not a big business anymore. Also, a lot of human trafficking in the US(and a lot of other places) is for ... farm labor and other unskilled work. But don't hold your breath waiting to hear that reported as "human trafficking". 3
Scottdmw Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 I agree, but you did not dig for opposing statistics before saying that you don't believe the rape statistics, did you? And you have every right to not believe them. Equally so, I am free to disbelieve those that I personally find illogical, without needing to quote opposing ones. To be perfectly honest, I view the accuracy of the majority of social science statistics with a healthy amount of cynicism, not just this one. I didn't dig for statistics before stating an offhand opinion. That is different than refusing to accept any statistics while insisting that you are right. Then there is no point in us talking about this. To me, it's like you saying, "I refuse to believe that the sun sets in the west unless there are recent studies saying it is so." Well... there aren't any. All I can tell you is that I personally see the sun setting in the west, and give you logic that explains why it does. If that isn't enough, it isn't worth convincing you. So you think your statements about prostitution are comparably obvious to the contention that the sun sets in the west? I will leave you to it. I hope you don't take this as a personal slight, but I'm curious why you require studies for everything that someone says, but you have posted a lot about a specific faith that you believe in, that is most definitely not the product of rigorous academic study. Surely that alone must suggest to you that academia does not explain everything in life? If someone tells you that you cannot possibly say that heaven exists because there are no studies that say it does, what are you going to say? I have no problem with people stating things as matters of faith or opinion, as I have, if it's clear that's what the statements are. Now, maybe I've been misreading you in this discussion and you never meant your claims to be more than personal opinions. You are certainly entitled to opinions without the need to look at studies. But, you may find it difficult to convince others to share your opinions if you are not willing to talk about studies. Personally, if someone on this board had started presenting evidence that seemed contrary to my opinions, I would be interested in reading it. I did, BTW, read the anecdotal evidence that people presented, I'm just not particularly impressed by anecdotal evidence when better is available. I still don't see how this makes logical sense. The men who start going to brothels when they are legalized and did not go before... why did they not go before? Because they were illegal. Then why would they start going to illegal brothels only after prostitution is legalized? How does the enactment of legal brothels suddenly encourage them to pursue illegal ones? I'm saying that some men who are not going now at all would choose to go to legal brothels (not illegal ones) if they became available. The men who are now going to illegal brothels would continue going, to either legal or illegal brothels. The demand would increase. Scott
Els Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 I didn't dig for statistics before stating an offhand opinion. That is different than refusing to accept any statistics while insisting that you are right. Alright, so do you or do you not accept the rape statistics that I showed? So you think your statements about prostitution are comparably obvious to the contention that the sun sets in the west? I will leave you to it. My statements about the logic of legalization increasing (genuine) trafficking are. I'm saying that some men who are not going now at all would choose to go to legal brothels (not illegal ones) if they became available. The men who are now going to illegal brothels would continue going, to either legal or illegal brothels. The demand would increase. Scott This still makes no sense. Your argument was that legalization increases the demand and patronage towards ILLEGAL brothels (which is where trafficking happens). Can't you see that your statement above actually means that the number of men going to illegal brothels would actually decrease (or not increase, at the very least) with legalization?
Scottdmw Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 You haven't any high ground here, as you haven't posted anything supporting that legalized prostitution increases slavery trafficking as a matter of causality. If you live in the U.S., research Nevada or don't. I don't care, and stand by my contention that legalized prostitution in the U.S. will actually stamp out any illicit human trade in the U.S. over time, which is admittedly a product of economic and market speculation on my part. The evidence you are talking about to prove causality would require that we randomly select two identical populations in the US and legalize prostitution for one but not the other. You are demanding impossible evidence while ignoring good evidence, and I suspect you are aware of that. There's some truth to that. But you haven't done much better with assertions from a single Australian social scientist. I have wasted hours and hours trying to find accuracy in so many feminist claims that I'm not really interested in spending my time looking into human sex traffic. I know before looking that I will find that it is extremely isolated, anomalous behavior that has been exaggerated to a noxious degree towards femleftist ends of painting women as victims and men as victimizers. I also know that whatever I find, you and others here will go on believing whatever it is you believe now despite any evidence or reasoned argument I produce, so why waste my time? I get nothing out of it. I've posted five articles with citations by separate authors in the course of this thread, from the US government, from Spain, Australia, and the UK. I have made a good-faith effort to provide the best possible evidence. Yet, you have not produced anything except one possible article from 123321 that does not even include the author's name much less a citation. This article is nothing more than an account of what happened at one time at one location, and you think that proves that therefore all other evidence is fake. If you are interested in actually discussing with an open mind, then by all means let's talk. If you prefer to simply state your opinion and say that all evidence to the contrary must be wrong, I'm going to leave you to it. Scott
Scottdmw Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Alright, so do you or do you not accept the rape statistics that I showed? I accept that there is an apparent contradiction between the sets of statistics. As a matter of offhand opinion one or the other is most likely wrong. I haven't done sufficient research to know anything more than that for a fact. This still makes no sense. Your argument was that legalization increases the demand and patronage towards ILLEGAL brothels (which is where trafficking happens). Can't you see that your statement above actually means that the number of men going to illegal brothels would actually decrease (or not increase, at the very least) with legalization? As I said before, legalization is likely to increase the number of men using prostitution. Some of the women currently working in illegal brothels would switch to legal ones. Since there are overall more men now using prostitution that would require additional women. It is my suspicion that those women would come from trafficking/coercion, not additional willing participants, and the evidence I presented suggests this is true. Scott
Els Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 As I said before, legalization is likely to increase the number of men using prostitution. Some of the women currently working in illegal brothels would switch to legal ones. Since there are overall more men now using prostitution that would require additional women. It is my suspicion that those women would come from trafficking/coercion, not additional willing participants, and the evidence I presented suggests this is true. No, you have not thought this through at all. Forget about 'statistics' for the moment. Focus on the logic of what you're saying. Let us assume that you are right and that legalization indeed increases the number of men using prostitution. Okay. Where does that increase come from? Mostly from men who were afraid to use brothels before because they were illegal. Where will those men go? Legal brothels. So there is an increase in the use of legal brothels, but there is no increase in the use of illegal brothels. You agree with me to this point, I hope? Now, when legalization is implemented properly, legal brothels will never accept coerced or trafficked women. This creates two entirely separate supply and demand pools - the legal and illegal ones. There will be no additional demand for trafficked women because trafficked women will only be in the illegal pool. It MIGHT not decrease - it hopefully will, since some men will be shifting from illegal to legal, as you said - but there is absolutely no rationale for it to INCREASE. What do you say to this logic? And please, don't quote the Australia study. Just talk about logical sequences of causation and effect here. 2
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Why people think lowly of hookers: Because they are "outliers" in this culture. Because they deal in sex, which is "taboo" in our basically puritanical society in the USA. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Why people think lowly of hookers: Because they are "outliers" in this culture. Because they deal in sex, which is "taboo" in our basically puritanical society in the USA. We're not all that puritanical. We just like to pretend we are, so we fake outrage/disgust when someone isn't as chaste as we'd like to pretend we are. 2
123321 Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 No, you have not thought this through at all. Forget about 'statistics' for the moment. Focus on the logic of what you're saying. Here's some fun logic; I would guestimate that somewhere around 60% of the women hooking in the places here, and even more inland, are "illegally trafficked" women. Horrible right? Until you realize that all it means is that someone facilitated their employment, either by buying a bus ticket, or making introductions, or whatever. They all, 100% in my experience, are working at will, it's just that the work is technically illegal in much the way that driving 58 in a 55 is illegal in CA. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Here's some fun logic; I would guestimate that somewhere around 60% of the women hooking in the places here, and even more inland, are "illegally trafficked" women. Horrible right? Until you realize that all it means is that someone facilitated their employment, either by buying a bus ticket, or making introductions, or whatever. They all, 100% in my experience, are working at will, it's just that the work is technically illegal in much the way that driving 58 in a 55 is illegal in CA. Sort of like someone busted for marijuana possession could be a "convicted felon". Or somebody who had sex with their 17 year old girlfriend when they were 18 could be a "convicted sex criminal". 1
Els Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Here's some fun logic; I would guestimate that somewhere around 60% of the women hooking in the places here, and even more inland, are "illegally trafficked" women. Horrible right? Until you realize that all it means is that someone facilitated their employment, either by buying a bus ticket, or making introductions, or whatever. They all, 100% in my experience, are working at will, it's just that the work is technically illegal in much the way that driving 58 in a 55 is illegal in CA. Well, I don't think it IS 100%, to be honest - trafficking is a very real problem and I'm sure there are some genuinely trafficked ones. But statistics give us almost no insight into how many are. Those things have to be looked at on a case by case basis.
Taramere Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 The focus does always seem to be on blaming the woman, in these discussions about prostitution. Here is a study of buyers versus non buyers (of sex). 101 from each category interviewed as part of the study. Its findings probably wouldn't be a surprise to many people...though I'm sure consumers of prostitutes would protest vociferously. Regardless, I think people in the mainstream generally view men who regularly frequent prostitutes as being part of an undesirable subculture (which the prostitute is also a part of)....and this study outlines why. The kind of strong anti-social elements and attitudes that lead a person to be okay with the notion of renting another human being's body. Not to say every man who has visited a prostitute is an antisocial, but I think the average prostitute is likely to encounter a fair number of them. Particularly those who, unlike Casey, may not be able to afford to screen out many of their clients. Some statistics on prostitution. 62% are likely to be subjected to violence in the course of their work, nearly half involved in street prostitution were sexually abused as children...and prostitutes are 18 times more likely to be murdered than the general population Prostitution : AVA - Against Violence & Abuse The difference between these individuals and so-called "high class prostitutes" strikes me as being not dissimilar to the difference between recreational drug users and hard core addicts. That a recreational user can take it or leave it, and has a blast with their drug use, doesn't negate the very harmful impact of drug use has on a whole different section of society. 1
Els Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Some statistics on prostitution. 62% are likely to be subjected to violence in the course of their work, nearly half involved in street prostitution were sexually abused as children...and prostitutes are 18 times more likely to be murdered than the general population I'm not certain that statistics like that are accurate, but I do agree that prostitutes are often more likely to face violence and murder. But that is because it is unregulated and unlegalized in most places, so there are no mandatory safety and security precautions to protect them. When you work in a place with a security guard and other precautionary measures nearby, your chances of getting murdered are probably equivalent to that of a bartender, clerk, or random woman walking on a street.
Taramere Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 I'm not certain that statistics like that are accurate Is your uncertainty based on other studies that contradict the ones I've referred to? I've got to admit that this thread has got so long that I haven't read the entire thing in detail, so it could be that somebody else has posted studies that discredit the one I posted. but I do agree that prostitutes are often more likely to face violence and murder. But that is because it is unregulated and unlegalized in most places, so there are no mandatory safety and security precautions to protect them. When you work in a place with a security guard and other precautionary measures nearby, your chances of getting murdered are probably equivalent to that of a bartender, clerk, or random woman walking on a street. The nature of the work, and a lot of the people involved in it, is such that even if it's regulated there will always be people involved (both as prostitutes and as consumers) in an unregulated way. The very fact that it's illegal, sleazy etc is going to be part of the attraction for some. People who are motivated by violence are probably going to be seeking out the more vulnerable streetwalkers...who take their chances because their lifestyles/abilities aren't conducive to them making a regulated business of it. Prostitution isn't a crime in the UK, but you'll see from those statistics that nonetheless there are all kinds of problems attached. Soliciting is the criminal aspect (as is kerb-crawling), but the use of tolerance zones is a compromise in that regard. The tolerance zones acknowledge that there will always be those prostitutions who take their chances on the street - even in a country like the Netherlands....and while it's very difficult for society to protect those women, at least having specific zones make it easier to monitor what's going on and hopefully provide something of a deterrent to the worst elements who look to prey on streetwalkers. I'm certainly not one who would argue against it being regulated. I think there's a need for that, but I also think that there will always be a strong element of sleaze and risk involved in this occupation....on account of the sleaze/risk factors being a big part of the draw.
Els Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Definitely agree with that. Authorities can only do so much to help; in the end, it's up to the people involved to make informed choices about whether or not they should participate in it in lieu of the possible risks involved. I would vote for not, personally.
ThaWholigan Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Is your uncertainty based on other studies that contradict the ones I've referred to? I've got to admit that this thread has got so long that I haven't read the entire thing in detail, so it could be that somebody else has posted studies that discredit the one I posted. The nature of the work, and a lot of the people involved in it, is such that even if it's regulated there will always be people involved (both as prostitutes and as consumers) in an unregulated way. The very fact that it's illegal, sleazy etc is going to be part of the attraction for some. People who are motivated by violence are probably going to be seeking out the more vulnerable streetwalkers...who take their chances because their lifestyles/abilities aren't conducive to them making a regulated business of it. Prostitution isn't a crime in the UK, but you'll see from those statistics that nonetheless there are all kinds of problems attached. Soliciting is the criminal aspect (as is kerb-crawling), but the use of tolerance zones is a compromise in that regard. The tolerance zones acknowledge that there will always be those prostitutions who take their chances on the street - even in a country like the Netherlands....and while it's very difficult for society to protect those women, at least having specific zones make it easier to monitor what's going on and hopefully provide something of a deterrent to the worst elements who look to prey on streetwalkers. I'm certainly not one who would argue against it being regulated. I think there's a need for that, but I also think that there will always be a strong element of sleaze and risk involved in this occupation....on account of the sleaze/risk factors being a big part of the draw. Is the sleaze a draw for the sexless wonders among us, or just an unfortunate element that one has to deal with? My personal view on this is indifferent, as I have no desire to relieve any sexual frustration I may have with an escort/prostitute.
KathyM Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 The focus does always seem to be on blaming the woman, in these discussions about prostitution. Here is a study of buyers versus non buyers (of sex). 101 from each category interviewed as part of the study. Its findings probably wouldn't be a surprise to many people...though I'm sure consumers of prostitutes would protest vociferously. Regardless, I think people in the mainstream generally view men who regularly frequent prostitutes as being part of an undesirable subculture (which the prostitute is also a part of)....and this study outlines why. The kind of strong anti-social elements and attitudes that lead a person to be okay with the notion of renting another human being's body. Not to say every man who has visited a prostitute is an antisocial, but I think the average prostitute is likely to encounter a fair number of them. Particularly those who, unlike Casey, may not be able to afford to screen out many of their clients. Some statistics on prostitution. 62% are likely to be subjected to violence in the course of their work, nearly half involved in street prostitution were sexually abused as children...and prostitutes are 18 times more likely to be murdered than the general population Prostitution : AVA - Against Violence & Abuse The difference between these individuals and so-called "high class prostitutes" strikes me as being not dissimilar to the difference between recreational drug users and hard core addicts. That a recreational user can take it or leave it, and has a blast with their drug use, doesn't negate the very harmful impact of drug use has on a whole different section of society. Thank you for posting that. Just to point out some of what the article states, a large percentage of prostitutes were victims of sexual and physical abuse as children. They continue in that pattern as adults, with a huge percentage being victims of physical abuse and rape as a result of their profession. A large percentage became prostitutes as minors, with the average age listed in the article as 12 years old. A huge percentage (82%) are serious drug addicts, and need the serious money that prostitution provides in order to support their drug habit. The vast majority (92%) want to get out of the profession immediately. When people stop enabling them to continue on in such a hazardous, destructive profession (enablers being customers, traffickers and supporters), they will look for other means of support, be it looking for another job, or looking to friends or government agencies to help them transition to a safer, healthier life.
ThaWholigan Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Is the sleaze a draw for the sexless wonders among us, or just an unfortunate element that one has to deal with? My personal view on this is indifferent, as I have no desire to relieve any sexual frustration I may have with an escort/prostitute. Deflowering and sexlessons for virgins by escort service ^^^^^ Read that too. Discuss
casey1989 Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Deflowering and sexlessons for virgins by escort service ^^^^^ Read that too. Discuss The funniest thing about that page was the 'Gift Package' That made me chuckle 'here son, you're a man, I booked you a prossie' LOL. Also BOY, the amount of guys that have said they are virgins before... and they are clearly not. If they are then you KNOW *awkward sex* !! Also what is this 'special training' all about?! Sounds kinda like a sleazy agency owner... gross... xx
somedude81 Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 The funniest thing about that page was the 'Gift Package' That made me chuckle 'here son, you're a man, I booked you a prossie' LOL. Also BOY, the amount of guys that have said they are virgins before... and they are clearly not. If they are then you KNOW *awkward sex* !! Also what is this 'special training' all about?! Sounds kinda like a sleazy agency owner... gross... xx So you've had guys tell you they were virgins when they weren't? BTW, have you gotten a few real virgin guys? if so, what was it like with them?
somedude81 Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Deflowering and sexlessons for virgins by escort service ^^^^^ Read that too. Discuss Heh, sounds like I should have gotten that instead of how my first time turned out to be. Prince Package: Three hours with a beautiful escort at a luxury location. From €950,- Not sure how much that is in America, punching it into the convert-atron, $1197. Holy hell! That's enough for six hookers over here. I at least hope they offered MSOG. Anybody who doens't is a ripoff.
casey1989 Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 So you've had guys tell you they were virgins when they weren't? BTW, have you gotten a few real virgin guys? if so, what was it like with them? Yes, sometimes they are looking for bareback 'oh but baby I'm a virgin I'm completely clean' with my reply 'well sweetie that might be well, but get the HELL out of my apartment' Urm yes. Honestly it's hard work. You have to baby sit them because they are vulnerable and make them feel really comfortable, plus some get so errr excited that you have to be very careful. The sex is almost always awful, but now I pretty much just do the work for them, because it makes it so much better, and they don't know what feels good for them. BTW that is a lot: 3 hours with me would cost £410 or 510 euro.
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