KathyM Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Are you ignorant of the definition of fornication, or do you feel the exchange of money is what makes the sex harmful to the marriage? I'm well aware of what fornication means. You are the one who started throwing that term around, trying to make this a wider issue than the legalization of prostitution. I guess when someone has nothing else to bolster their argument, they'll throw in everything under the kitchen sink to try to help their case.
ThaWholigan Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Also, maybe it would be interesting to leave the infidelity question aside. If married men never went to prostitutes, and only single, unattached men did, would people still look down on prostitutes? In other words, is there something fundamentally wrong with what they do, independent from who uses their services? That's a more interesting question in my opinion. The golden question that needs answering IMO
KathyM Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 In my country, it only works like this on particular streets of certain towns, at certain times of the day/week. It's extremely easy to avoid putting yourself in that situation. Everything else (i.e., the majority of prostitution) involves men actively seeking out women who sell sex. I never get those pop ups on my machine. That must be because I use a pop up blocker. Presumably, men knows how to use those as well. Well, I don't use a pop-up blocker, since it prevents me from accessing my school's website, so maybe that's why I'm getting these ads. Too bad that people have to actively block this type of stuff.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 I guess when someone has nothing else to bolster their argument, they'll throw in everything under the kitchen sink to try to help their case. You mean, like making this a question about marital infidelity? 3 questions: 1) If prostitution NEVER involved a married man, what would you think of it? 2) Do you believe that sex should ONLY be permitted between a married man and the woman (singular) he is married to? No sex among any other members of the population at all? 3) If the answer to #2 is "yes," do you think this should be made law and enforced?
denise_xo Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Well, I don't use a pop-up blocker, since it prevents me from accessing my school's website, so maybe that's why I'm getting these ads. Too bad that people have to actively block this type of stuff. Just as a technical aside: you can allow pop ups from certain web sites and block others. I also need pop ups for certain things I do (banking, etc). You can tell the computer which ones to allow and block the rest.
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Well, I don't use a pop-up blocker, since it prevents me from accessing my school's website, so maybe that's why I'm getting these ads. Too bad that people have to actively block this type of stuff. I don't block it, and it's not here. I do have some annoying Levi's ads popping up right now. They're kind of zeroing in on a guys crotch area … maybe they are nasty, after all. CITIZEN'S ARREST!
KathyM Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Except … prostitution is legal and regulated in the Netherlands, and it's believed to be the number one destination for victims of human trafficking. Well, there you said it. I rest my case. If you want to go on supporting a profession that harms women, children, and families, go ahead. I do not intend to, and I will continue to speak out against it.
casey1989 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Also, maybe it would be interesting to leave the infidelity question aside. If married men never went to prostitutes, and only single, unattached men did, would people still look down on prostitutes? In other words, is there something fundamentally wrong with what they do, independent from who uses their services? That's a more interesting question in my opinion. I think a lot of it depends on your views on casual sex in general. I think a lot of people think it's taking an easy way out. I think the perception that we actively spreads diseases also contributes to the 'it's disgusting line of thought'.
KathyM Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 KathyM' date=' since some married people cheat, should we outlaw marriage?[/quote'] How about we support marriage, and stop legitimizing things that threaten it? How about we stop supporting an industry that harms marriages, women and children?
denise_xo Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Also, maybe it would be interesting to leave the infidelity question aside. If married men never went to prostitutes, and only single, unattached men did, would people still look down on prostitutes? In other words, is there something fundamentally wrong with what they do, independent from who uses their services? That's a more interesting question in my opinion. I think this is an interesting question, too, and I have mixed views of it. What I think is problematic with the sector as a whole, in its current form (rather than particular individuals), is that it is a sector where there are a lot of cases of women who have been subjected to trafficking and/or women who are very vulnerable (e.g. drug addicts with histories of previous sexual abuse and so on). I'm fully aware that this doesn't apply to all, and that there are plenty of people who do it for a few years out of their own accord and then move on, and so on. But like I said in a post many pages ago, I think there are a lot of customers who a) either don't care what the background of the woman is, or b) don't know the difference. I'm on the fence about legalization because I haven't really looked at the research that's out there. I do also find it problematic that if I were a prostitute, I would be likely to at least occasionally be invading someone's marriage. While the main responsibility for that squarely belongs to the married man, I do not personally want to engage in that kind of activity to make a living. Having said that, by that line of argument, it would also be difficult to work for Apple or a lot of high street clothes retailers, given their reliance on what is very similar to conditions of slave labour and/or child labour. Now, in the hypothetical situation that there were no trafficked victims, no vulnerable women, or no married people involved: I am put off by the thought of bodies and sex for sale. Is it different than casual sex? In my mind, it always has been, because it involves a financial transaction, a purchase of someone's body. I find that off putting. I know some people compare it to women with sugar daddies, and my answer to that is that I think that's equally off putting. I've had casual sex various times and I'm not opposed to it per se, but I question how healthy it is for the majority of people in the long run. I also can't compare prostitution to other exchanges of labour (as in, is in any different to sell sexual services than it is to sell your labour as, for example, a carpenter). Perhaps that is prejudice, I don't know, but to me it's different. But the day all the men who buy sex would feel comfortable about their daughters going into prostitution, I might change my mind. What about you, johan? What's your opinion on the question you posed? Edited June 12, 2012 by denise_xo
d'Arthez Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 How about we support marriage, and stop legitimizing things that threaten it? How about we stop supporting an industry that harms marriages, women and children? Car production companies and car dealerships (men and women do get killed in traffic accidents, and it is kind of traumatic for the bereaved spouse and kids)? The army (soldiers get killed in war zones)? Politicians (most of them struggle to remain faithful)? Oh, and let's add: The church (abusing little boys is not healthy for the future fathers of America; abused children tend to become abusers themselves; unhealthy marriages result from child abuse), Walmart (can people honestly survive on minimum wage, with no benefits?), people who sell guns, people who hand out gun licenses (when daddy is shot dead, the marriage is kind of terminated; the same applies when husband shoots and kills lovely wife)? Where do you want to stop? If people refuse to take their vows seriously, that is the problem of the people who take the vows. You cannot seriously expect the whole world to cater to the whims of people who refuse to take their own "religious" commitments seriously. No one but the married parties themselves agreed to the commitment marriage is. If I migrated to the US, and refused to take my commitments seriously, would you hand me $2k a month to live off? Or would you tell me to act like a man, and do what is right? 1
OhHey Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Casey89, I have some questions about my becoming a John. Mostly about the guilt feeling I have of "using" a person for such activity.... I'd have to take you to dinner and a movie at least....plus the "payment" Do you "do" just anyone? or do you have to have a slight attraction? I heard higher end escorts won't do any old person..they need an amount of attraction. What about diseases? Do both parties have to sign a waver? or do you need to show proof of "being clean"?... No offense, but I'd be hesitant that you would have some VD that you don't tell me about in the name of money. It's just to risky to assume everyone is clean.
casey1989 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Casey89, I have some questions about my becoming a John. Mostly about the guilt feeling I have of "using" a person for such activity.... I'd have to take you to dinner and a movie at least....plus the "payment" Do you "do" just anyone? or do you have to have a slight attraction? I heard higher end escorts won't do any old person..they need an amount of attraction. What about diseases? Do both parties have to sign a waver? or do you need to show proof of "being clean"?... No offense, but I'd be hesitant that you would have some VD that you don't tell me about in the name of money. It's just to risky to assume everyone is clean. Hey It's an individual decision on who people see. The parameters are set by the girl herself. Most girls however have a strict booking system, in which they can rule out clients who they would find unsavoury. For example if a man mentions the word 'bareback' (unprotected sex) to me I would never agree to see him. In terms of anyone in terms of physicality some girls won't see guys under/over a certain age, or of guys of a certain ethnicity. Attraction for me is based on rapor with the client and having a bit of a flirt and giggle with them and generally treating each other as people rather than objects. In the biz this is called the Girlfriend experience- and sounds very much what you are after. Price points also help with this- for example my fee for an hour is more than most people earn in a few days- therefore I tend to see quite well off clients, who want to get the most for their money, and who I naturally relate to because of my social status (coming from a fairly wealthy family and being highly educated). Clients believe that because I cost more I am superior to other sex workers, and because of this they don't just want to have sex, they want to get to know me, and have more of an experience rather than a 5 minute blowjob. So both parties want to take the unnatural exchange of money for sex thing and sort of pretend it's not there. Many of my clients for example believe that I am a **** buddy who they help out with money on occasion. It sounds like you see escorts as victims; and I think it's important that you forget that preconception right now. Sure some sex workers are victims, but in general a high class escort is not going to be a victim. If you go to a girl who is working independently then it is very unlikely that she is being forced for whatever reason into selling sex. Many of us enjoy our job, and genuinely like meeting men and having a fun time, and do it because it's simply a lot more interesting than another job i.e working in retail for example. I never feel used... its a mutually beneficial arrangement Condoms are used. No question. I do not play russian roulette with my life just for the sake of extra money. I am tested every month. The full works- including throat swabs for example. It is in a girls interest to not pick up anything- it would ruin my reputation if I got a sexual disease and passed it on, so I am very careful what I do and with whom. I can't speak for all girls when I say that, but those that I know personally are equally careful of their health. xx 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Wait. Because I pointed out that a country with legal and regulated prostitution has the highest rate of trafficking destination, you are somehow able to use this to support your argument … that up to now has been that prostitution enables infidelity??? Girl, you are all over the map. Well, there you said it. I rest my case. If you want to go on supporting a profession that harms women, children, and families, go ahead. I do not intend to, and I will continue to speak out against it. Will you speak out against the profession of pastor, too? I have been reading a lot of articles about some members of that profession molesting children. I know families personally which were hurt badly by the sick, hate fueled, ignorant and evil counseling of ministries (specifically, "Ex-Gay" ministries) and women who were counseled against leaving abusive marriages by their church leaders. There are also plenty of accounts of pastors using the services of prostitutes. Are you going to speak out against the profession of pastor, which has included such malevolent and dark features? The existence of pastors probably enables the profession of prostitution to exist, right? All joking aside, as I have said, I am not "for" prostitution. But, I know a lot more families and individuals who have been deeply harmed by religion than prostitution. And over the centuries of history, the damage done by prostitution compared to that done in the name of whatever church is a tiny speck. BAN THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT! I CALL FOR THE CRIMINALIZATION OF THIS DESTRUCTIVE FORCE!!! Edited June 12, 2012 by Mme. Chaucer 1
OhHey Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Hey It's an individual decision on who people see. The parameters are set by the girl herself. Most girls however have a strict booking system, in which they can rule out clients who they would find unsavoury. For example if a man mentions the word 'bareback' (unprotected sex) to me I would never agree to see him. In terms of anyone in terms of physicality some girls won't see guys under/over a certain age, or of guys of a certain ethnicity. Attraction for me is based on rapor with the client and having a bit of a flirt and giggle with them and generally treating each other as people rather than objects. In the biz this is called the Girlfriend experience- and sounds very much what you are after. Price points also help with this- for example my fee for an hour is more than most people earn in a few days- therefore I tend to see quite well off clients, who want to get the most for their money, and who I naturally relate to because of my social status (coming from a fairly wealthy family and being highly educated). Clients believe that because I cost more I am superior to other sex workers, and because of this they don't just want to have sex, they want to get to know me, and have more of an experience rather than a 5 minute blowjob. So both parties want to take the unnatural exchange of money for sex thing and sort of pretend it's not there. Many of my clients for example believe that I am a **** buddy who they help out with money on occasion. It sounds like you see escorts as victims; and I think it's important that you forget that preconception right now. Sure some sex workers are victims, but in general a high class escort is not going to be a victim. If you go to a girl who is working independently then it is very unlikely that she is being forced for whatever reason into selling sex. Many of us enjoy our job, and genuinely like meeting men and having a fun time, and do it because it's simply a lot more interesting than another job i.e working in retail for example. I never feel used... its a mutually beneficial arrangement Condoms are used. No question. I do not play russian roulette with my life just for the sake of extra money. I am tested every month. The full works- including throat swabs for example. It is in a girls interest to not pick up anything- it would ruin my reputation if I got a sexual disease and passed it on, so I am very careful what I do and with whom. I can't speak for all girls when I say that, but those that I know personally are equally careful of their health. xx This shows that Escorts and such aren't uneducated, brats.....Very well written answers to my questions.....more so than I have ever seen on this forum. I probably wouldn't be able to afford you "that way" but.....what is your fee to just come and go to the movies and see Avengers with me? Sad face....*blats* Thanks for the answers...extremely informative:).
D-Lish Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 I don't have respect for women that have sex for money, but I respect their right to have sex for money and I support the legalization of prostitution. IMO, what is more f-cked up is the fact that the government has a right to control what goes on between consenting adults in their own bedroom. As far as I am converned the government needs to get the "f" out of our bedroom's. A cheating husband is going to cheat REGARDLESS of whether or not prostitution is legal or not. It's so silly to think otherwise. 2
Furious Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 You claim to be educated and from a wealthy family. Why are you a prostitute if you have so much potential?
gaius Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 I've always enjoyed the diversity around here. Hearing honest opinions and debate from such different people on a regular basis is a treat. Don't steal that from me threebyfate. Thank you for participating Casey. 3
casey1989 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 You claim to be educated and from a wealthy family. Why are you a prostitute if you have so much potential? Because I want to be! 1
OhHey Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 You claim to be educated and from a wealthy family. Why are you a prostitute if you have so much potential? Combination of interest of the lifestyle and the uber good money it brings I would guess. I can agree to her sort of services.....street hooking not as much...
casey1989 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 I've always enjoyed the diversity around here. Hearing honest opinions and debate from such different people on a regular basis is a treat. Don't steal that from me threebyfate. Thank you for participating Casey. No problem
Furious Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Because I want to be! I have a daughter and if she chose your profession I would be heart broken.
OhHey Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 I have a daughter and if she chose your profession I would be heart broken. As much as I love Casey's honesty and overall written words here....I gotta say I agree with Furious. I don't believe any dad would want his family into this, but if it did happen they'd have no choice. I wouldn't want to hear about it though and would be ok if she is happy I suppose. It's not the profession per say....but I would want my girl to be safe and not get hurt by some ******* I don't know if I could get used to it....I don't know. 1
casey1989 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 I'm sure my father would be horrified to! Many of my client's say if there daughters did it they would be heartbroken too. But everyone is someone's daughter.
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