Els Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 It appears I'm the only one who thinks putting a dog before companionship with a human being means you are not ready for an adult relationship. No, I actually agree with you in this. If two people are genuinely in love and planning to move to the next stage together and the only thing holding them back is incompatible pets, I personally would take the relationship (though I would postpone moving in together til I find a home that I trust to take my dog in). But in this case, OP seems to have her mind set about what she intends to do. Also, considering the history of her relationship with this man, despite the recent promising turn of events that she described, I think she's making the right decision.
Author iris219 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Posted June 6, 2012 It appears I'm the only one who thinks putting a dog before companionship with a human being means you are not ready for an adult relationship. I think people who view animals as expendable aren't mature or stable enough to have adult relationships. Or at least they aren't the kind of people I personally want to form relationships with. 3
carhill Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 IMO, in a compatible adult relationship, such issues would be proactively resolvable to the satisfaction of both parties; both parties would be sufficiently motivated by their love for each other, as well as their apparent love for their animals, to integrate their lifestyles in a healthy way. Many choices are possible. It depends on the couple whether or not they're willing to make them. OP, is this man's dog a pit bull? In my area, that's a common dog-aggressive breed and many are trained for illegal fighting. If so, a trainer could evaluate it for behavior modification. Nothing is set in stone. Try some things and see what works, or not. 1
Author iris219 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) IMO, in a compatible adult relationship, such issues would be proactively resolvable to the satisfaction of both parties; both parties would be sufficiently motivated by their love for each other, as well as their apparent love for their animals, to integrate their lifestyles in a healthy way. Many choices are possible. It depends on the couple whether or not they're willing to make them. OP, is this man's dog a pit bull? In my area, that's a common dog-aggressive breed and many are trained for illegal fighting. If so, a trainer could evaluate it for behavior modification. Nothing is set in stone. Try some things and see what works, or not. Yes, he's a pit. We've had several sessions with a behavorial therapist and she thought she could make some improvements in that the dog might begin to listen to commands to not attack instantly, but she had no hope that the two dogs could ever live harmoniously. He will always be dangerous to other animals and diligence is necessary at all times if he's in public (which he rarely is). He cannot be around animals; even from a distance he freaks out. Now I'm starting to wonder if it's a problem that we aren't "sufficiently motivated by our love for each other" to get rid of either dog. I can't imagine feeling that sort of love for any man though. Edited June 6, 2012 by iris219
carhill Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I'd be motivated to learn what kind of joy BF gets out of his animal when its disposition so drastically limits its freedom and also his willingness to explore methods of extending that freedom. As dogs tend to be social animals, such solitary life must be debilitating on some level, as their humans aren't around 24/7. I guess the question to ask is can we be a team resolving this? Marriage takes teamwork.
xxoo Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Yes, he's a pit. We've had several sessions with a behavorial therapist and she thought she could make some improvements in that the dog might begin to listen to commands to not attack instantly, but she had no hope that the two dogs could ever live harmoniously. He will always be dangerous to other animals and diligence is necessary at all times if he's in public (which he rarely is). He cannot be around animals; even from a distance he freaks out. I simply would not live with that dog. So, from my point of view, your dog is insignificant. I wouldn't live with that dog even if I had no dog. What a liability if he got out!
kaylan Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Yes, he's a pit. We've had several sessions with a behavorial therapist and she thought she could make some improvements in that the dog might begin to listen to commands to not attack instantly, but she had no hope that the two dogs could ever live harmoniously. He will always be dangerous to other animals and diligence is necessary at all times if he's in public (which he rarely is). He cannot be around animals; even from a distance he freaks out. Now I'm starting to wonder if it's a problem that we aren't "sufficiently motivated by our love for each other" to get rid of either dog. I can't imagine feeling that sort of love for any man though. Pits are aggressive because of the way they are raised. Again I think the problem is with the owner. Ive known some very mild mannered and lovely pit bulls. My friend has a blue nose pitt thats a sweetheart.
Feelsgoodman Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 To quote Gordon Gekko from the movie Wall Street: "That's the one thing you have to remember about WASPs: they love animals and hate people."
setsenia Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Believe it or not, there are some people out there that choose their dogs over their children. Don't let it get to that point. 1
Feelsgoodman Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Pits are aggressive because of the way they are raised. Again I think the problem is with the owner. Ive known some very mild mannered and lovely pit bulls. My friend has a blue nose pitt thats a sweetheart. Once again, you show a complete lack of knowledge on the subject to which you are so eager to contribute. My family had a pit when I was a kid. Since he reached doggy puberty at about 7-8 months old and till his death of old age, he was extremely agressive to any adult male dog...or any four legged creature, as a matter of fact. He even tried to attack horses. This dog grew up in a loving home, was never abused or trained to be aggressive. He was never violent towards humans and was generally a very good pet except for his "killer instinct" towards other animals. This is purely genetic determinism and has nothing to do with the owners. Pits were bred to be canine gladiators and it's perfectly natural for them to attack other dogs. Pits who are aggressive towards humans, on the other hand, are usually trained to do so.
kaylan Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) ^So what youre saying is "my anecdotal evidence is better than yours" great argument. All pits aren't naturally aggressive. Edited June 6, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator language 1
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Once again, you show a complete lack of knowledge on the subject to which you are so eager to contribute. My family had a pit when I was a kid. Since he reached doggy puberty at about 7-8 months old and till his death of old age, he was extremely agressive to any adult male dog...or any four legged creature, as a matter of fact. He even tried to attack horses. This dog grew up in a loving home, was never abused or trained to be aggressive. He was never violent towards humans and was generally a very good pet except for his "killer instinct" towards other animals. This is purely genetic determinism and has nothing to do with the owners. Pits were bred to be canine gladiators and it's perfectly natural for them to attack other dogs. Pits who are aggressive towards humans, on the other hand, are usually trained to do so. OH MY GOD. A miracle has occurred. I completely concur. And I am a trained professional crazy dog lady.
Author iris219 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Posted June 6, 2012 OH MY GOD. A miracle has occurred. I completely concur. And I am a trained professional crazy dog lady. As a dog trainer, do you agree that some dogs will always be aggressive with other dogs and no amount of training will "cure" it?
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 As a dog trainer, do you agree that some dogs will always be aggressive with other dogs and no amount of training will "cure" it? Yes, I agree. It can be helped, though. Consistent, vigilant management would be an ongoing requirement and commitment. It will never be "gone."
FitChick Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Mme. Chaucer, do you do sheepdog trials? I've always wanted to go to one of those competitions in England. Maybe someday.
Feelsgoodman Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 ^So what youre saying is "my anecdotal evidence is better than yours" great argument. All pits aren't naturally aggressive. Exceptions that prove the rule. Most male pits that are not sexually mutilated (fixed) have natural aggression towards dogs and other animals. This is hardly "anecdotal evidence". Pits were bred as fighting dogs. That's not to say pits are bad dogs. On the contrary, they are great pets, but you need to take certain precautions when owning them.
Alma Mobley Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Exceptions that prove the rule. Most male pits that are not sexually mutilated (fixed) have natural aggression towards dogs and other animals. This is hardly "anecdotal evidence". Pits were bred as fighting dogs. That's not to say pits are bad dogs. On the contrary, they are great pets, but you need to take certain precautions when owning them. Can you extend that understanding you obviously have towards animals and extend it to the "female species," FG? 1
kaylan Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Exceptions that prove the rule. Most male pits that are not sexually mutilated (fixed) have natural aggression towards dogs and other animals. This is hardly "anecdotal evidence". Pits were bred as fighting dogs. That's not to say pits are bad dogs. On the contrary, they are great pets, but you need to take certain precautions when owning them. Some pits were bred to fight. Not all of them behave that way. Theres easy info online about this. Lets be real.
marilla Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Make it work. There are professionals that can help the dogs with their behavior and possibly to get along with each other. In the worst case find some way so that the dogs do not come in contact with one another. Keep one in the house and the other in the yard kind of thing. Animals get used to each other. I have 2 big dogs and i brought home a stray cat from nowhere. At first they were looking for an opportunity to kill her and have attacked her a few times but i was quick and saved the poor thing. Now they are best friends! I still can't believe that they are playing and sleeping next to each other. It is like somehow the dogs figured out that she was important to me and they should not hurt her. Don't ask me how, but they did, in time.
Feelsgoodman Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Some pits were bred to fight. Not all of them behave that way. Theres easy info online about this. Lets be real. Yeah, let's be real...the "easy info" that you apparently found online is just plain wrong. All pure-bred pits come from the same original genetic stock. Pits were originally bred to bait bulls and bears. When baiting was outlawed, they were used in dog fighting. All modern pitbulls are descendants of those original fighting dogs. Just because certain specimen may be less aggressive than others does not change the fact that the breed as a whole has a genetic predisposition for agression towards other animals.
Feelsgoodman Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Can you extend that understanding you obviously have towards animals and extend it to the "female species," FG? My understanding of the female species is just as sound...but telling it like it is does not necessarily make you popular
kaylan Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Yeah, let's be real...the "easy info" that you apparently found online is just plain wrong. All pure-bred pits come from the same original genetic stock. Pits were originally bred to bait bulls and bears. When baiting was outlawed, they were used in dog fighting. All modern pitbulls are descendants of those original fighting dogs. Just because certain specimen may be less aggressive than others does not change the fact that the breed as a whole has a genetic predisposition for agression towards other animals. You sound like the same kind of person who buys into the crap Cesar Milan peddles with his dog whisperer bull. Even though real animal experts know his negative behavior and alpha rolls are bad for animals. Please do some research instead of going with the commonly held incorrect beliefs about how most pitbulls are supposed to be. "Why are so many Pit Bulls aggressive? So many Pit Bulls being aggressive is a myth. According to the 2008 testing of 218 dog breeds by the American Temperament Testing Society (http://atts.org/), the passing rate for American Pit Bull Terrier 85%, American Staffordshire Terrier 83.9%, Staffordshire Bull Terriers 88.0%. Last years testing also showed that out of the 218 breeds tested 119 breeds scored lower than 83.9% (the Bully low) and only 69 breeds scored better than the Bully’s 88.0%. Mixed breeds came in at 85.4%. Breeds that scored lower than 83.9% include, Beagle, Border Collie, Dalmatian, Greyhound, Caviler King Charles Spaniel, and Toy Poodles. " "If Pit Bulls are not aggressive why are they used so often by dog fighters? Dog fighters exploit several breeds of strong, medium to large dogs. Many dog fighters choose “Pit Bulls” because they are quick to learn, eager to please and easy to handle. Once a Pit Bull accepts you as their master, they will gladly lay down their life to please you. These breeds have an incredible sense of determination, once they begin a task, they will not give up unless they can not physically continue or you step in to stop them. This holds true whether you force them to fight or ask them to pull a car. Their un-relentless desire to complete a task combined with their unshakable sense of loyalty makes them easy targets for cruelty by cowards and criminals alike." http://whatapittie.org/pit-bull-facts-fiction.html http://www.tree.com/lifestyle/pit-bull-myths-and-facts.aspx Edited June 6, 2012 by kaylan 2
xxoo Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 American Temperament Testing Society (American Temperament Test Society, Inc. | A sound mind in a sound body), This test does not evaluate for aggression toward other dogs. Description of the Temperament Test A dog aggressive dog is not necessarily the fault of the owner. Of course, it can be sometimes, but not necessarily. Keeping a wildly dog aggressive pit, otoh, is a choice I would not make. Relationships first, 100%
carhill Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 OP, to remain relevant to topic and not get off on the pit bull tangent, what aspects of this dog has your BF related to you that makes this a pivotal relationship issue? I understand that there's little chance of this dog and your dog cohabiting. What has he communicated which highlights his attachment to the animal, potentially to the point of this relationship ending because of it? I'll use an example: When my exW left, she took our Siamese cat whom I was very attached to. As a result, this left a void, irrespective of the divorce. My bmf's wife found me another Siamese, a male, who has seen me through the divorce and my mother's death and to whom I'm very attached. He talks (Siamese are very vocal) and acts more like a dog following me around, and lays at my feet or on my lap. I'm describing why and how I came to be so attached, to the point of perhaps it being an irreconcilable dealbreaker with a non-cat lover or other incompatible pet owner. How does it go for your BF? 1
kaylan Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) This test does not evaluate for aggression toward other dogs. Description of the Temperament Test A dog aggressive dog is not necessarily the fault of the owner. Of course, it can be sometimes, but not necessarily. Keeping a wildly dog aggressive pit, otoh, is a choice I would not make. Relationships first, 100% There is still no valid data available that proves the whole "pits are naturally aggressive" myth. And my prior post about knowing some sweet heart pits was basically that its about the individual dog really. Hell, my cats fight more than most dogs Ive come across...but people overlook aggressiveness in cats because they are smaller, fluffier and less of a threat to people and each other. Its rare one cat is big enough to completely dominate another cat. Edited June 6, 2012 by kaylan
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