SBC Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 Briefly, our A is 2.5 years along. I am divorced, he has been married for 28 years. His is what would be considered a "managed exit" in that he has, for the last 8 months, been preparing himself and everyone around him for his departure, including his STBXW. In nearly three decades, one can accumlate a lot of junk -- physically, mentally and emotionally. He has cleaned up his messes, attented therapy on a weekly basis and has created an enviornment in which his leaving will not be so traumatic. I have read it here many times that if a man does not leave in the first X number of months, he won't ever leave ...and I am here to testify that this is not always the case. In fact, I would be one to say that if he does leave so quickly, your chances of survival as a couple are less than if he gives himself (and you) time to grow and develop. This has not been an easy road to travel, and our challenges are not over yet, but our future is bright and I am terribly excited about it. And while I would not necessarily recommend this path to anyone, through it I have learned that I am a strong, independent and viable woman who can stand on her own two feet. My one piece of advice to OW would be, never lose your sense of self while in an A. It is easy to become consumed by feelings of isolation and lonliness, but please don't let this happen. Never forget who you are, and use all that time alone to grow as an individual --it is the very best way to "land" your MM. And if it doesnt ultimately work out between you two, then you will be that much more desirable to the next man in your life. 3
skywriter Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 My one piece of advice to OW would be, never lose your sense of self while in an A. It is easy to become consumed by feelings of isolation and lonliness, but please don't let this happen. Never forget who you are, and use all that time alone to grow as an individual --it is the very best way to "land" your MM. And if it doesnt ultimately work out between you two, then you will be that much more desirable to the next man in your life. Great advice, thank you. Best wishes for your future. 1
daisy love Posted June 3, 2012 Posted June 3, 2012 I felt isolated and lonely in the EMA too, but I feel even more isolated and lonely now that we're together and they are getting divorced. Be careful of that. I'm learning that I don't much like being isolated and lonely and him being with me makes it no better.
Author SBC Posted June 3, 2012 Author Posted June 3, 2012 I felt isolated and lonely in the EMA too, but I feel even more isolated and lonely now that we're together and they are getting divorced. Be careful of that. I'm learning that I don't much like being isolated and lonely and him being with me makes it no better. This is exactly my point. The dual pits of lonliness and isolation cannot be filled by someone else --those holes must be filled from within. You need to find yourself. Who is Daisy Love? What are your interests and hobbies? What is it that makes you happy? Answer those questions, and go after those things that make you happy, and your lonliness and isolation will dissapate. 2
Radagast Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Briefly, our A is 2.5 years along. I am divorced, he has been married for 28 years. His is what would be considered a "managed exit" in that he has, for the last 8 months, been preparing himself and everyone around him for his departure, including his STBXW. In nearly three decades, one can accumlate a lot of junk -- physically, mentally and emotionally. He has cleaned up his messes, attented therapy on a weekly basis and has created an enviornment in which his leaving will not be so traumatic. I have read it here many times that if a man does not leave in the first X number of months, he won't ever leave ...and I am here to testify that this is not always the case. In fact, I would be one to say that if he does leave so quickly, your chances of survival as a couple are less than if he gives himself (and you) time to grow and develop. This is very similar to my own experience. I was married for a similar length of time, and similarly embarked on a "managed exit" while participating in counselling (both individual, and family with my children). I also let my then-wife know of my plans to leave in advance of my actual departure. This worked very well for us - my children were very supportive of the split and my subsequent remarriage, my wife had sufficient time to prepare for our moving in together and subsequent marriage, and I was firmly disengaged from my previous marriage before entering marriage with my wife. If anyone is considering moving from an affair to a marriage or other form of long-term relationship, I would recommend this way of approaching the transition. I also agree with the last paragraph quoted above. I too have reacted with disbelief to claims that if a man does not leave within a few months he will not leave. I believe that a man who leaves a marriage of thirty years, mere months after meeting someone new, is a hitchhiker seeking a ride to the next town rather than someone planning a long-term future with the love of his life. One does not - or should not, in my opinion - lightly throw away a marriage and family forged over decades on a passing whim. These are serious matters which warrant serious consideration and the kind of getting to know someone built up over time. 2
Owl Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 You know...I can see both sides of this coin. I would agree...the choice to end the marriage and move on with someone else isn't one that should be made lightly or hastily. The effort needs to be spent getting to know the person you're contemplating making a major life change for...and you've got to do some serious thinking to determine if ending the marriage is what you really want. In that light, it makes sense that it could/should take some time to make that choice. The other side of the coin... It's impossible for most OW/OM to be able to differentiate between someone who is truly contemplating this change and taking time to make the right choice...from someone who is cake-eating/dragging their feet/not truly intending to EVER make a change. That's why the time limit is mentioned. Is it a "fix" for all situations? Surely not. Is it a "fix" for most? That's an opinion/judgement call, but from what I've seen in my life and my time here on LS...most of the time, if they don't leave within a comparitively short time, there's typically little chance that they're going to leave period. I'd say that the situation the two of you have experienced have been more of the exception rather than the rule. If you have suggestions on 'additional factors' that an OW/OM might take into account to help determine between someone making a methodical decision and a cake eater, that would probably be the best advice that could be given on this subject. 1
MissBee Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Great for you SBC! You seem to have a handle on your situation. To add to what Owl said: I think that coming in on the end of someone's marriage, as in, with or without you, they were planning on leaving, will most likely see the person making real steps towards leaving...as they aren't doing it for you. It's a genuine, free-standing decision. Whereas, in the case where they were not trying to do that, but now that they're in the A it has come up or is being requested by their AP...it will not be as expedient, if ever. It is up to someone whether or not they would prefer to have the person ring them up when they actually leave or if they would rather have a relationship while this person is trying to end their previous life. I think the latter is way more challenging and complicated and it's easier to get hurt that way. The exit affair situations seem to be more expedient and most of the As brought to LS do not seem to be ones where the MM is on his way out the door, but sitting pretty in the bakery. I would employ OW/OM and anyone in any relationship to apply reasonable skepticism where it is due. Watch, observe and see what this person is saying and doing. 1
Author SBC Posted June 7, 2012 Author Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) When our A started, my MM was the dictonary definition of "cake eater" He was not about to give up the comfortable existence he had so carefully crafted over the past 30 years. And who could blame him? He didn't hate his wife, they had just grown apart. He had friends, a business, a nice house, an expensive hobby. It was perfect. Well, almost perfect. His life lacked passion and he had no best friend. Two very important spices in the recipe of life. But like many men, in his mind, he thought he could have passion and a best friend on the side, and keep everything else in tact....thereby having "it all" *BZZZZT!* Wrong answer. For my part, I was a selfish, insecure, recently divorced woman who had never lived on her own before and who had never really worked before --someone who was terrified at the idea of having to make it on my own, and I was looking for someone/anyone to be my next husband, you know, so I could dodge that responsibility. When looked at through the proper glasses of perspective --it is not hard to see why he was not eager to leave anything behind to be with me in the early stages. Because I didnt love him, I didnt even know him --I was just looking for someone to fill a position, and he fit the bill. I think a lot of OW fit this description. But, we really liked hanging out together and slowly, VERY slowly, we began to really fall for each other. I always had a feeling inside me, call it a hunch, that he would possibly leave to be with me but he had so many issues to work though and I never knew how long it would take for him to work through them all. Or IF he even could. Not everyone can you know. Financially, emotionally, logisitcally. A lot of guilt, and grieving about unrealized dreams, failure and the hurting and disappoinment of others. It was a huge, ugly, super emotionally charged task for him. So, I didnt worry about it. I was fairly content to take what we had at face value. It was not always ideal, and often it was a big battle. I would get emotional, he would get UNemotional in response, so I would call "NO CONTACT" when I felt in a flush of frustration that I wanted to move on. The longest we ever went without talking was 7 weeks --then he put a flower on my car, and I called to thank him. During this time, I could sense he was working through a lot of his issues and I learned that I can take care of myself. I started to understand the value of work and I engaged in a really great hobby...one that I love and that I discoved I am pretty good at actually. And he started therapy to work through his junk. So, we both were just kinda rolling along and it was OK. We got to know each other. For lack of a better term, we dated. Did his wife know? We both suspect she did, but after almost 30 years, she was not eager to embrace change either. Just let it be and hope it goes away. Then I had a serious personal crisis, and I called him first --and he came when I called. It was then, and only then, that I knew for sure he was ready to leave. When he came to me that afternoon when I really needed him --that was the defining moment. He agrees with me on this. And since then, everything else has fallen into place. He and I have BOTH done a lot of maturing in the last 2.5 years, we both learned how to be INDEPENDENT people. I say proudly that this A has been the greatest relationship of my life. So what would my suggestion be as to "other factors?" Stop waiting for them to come fix your life. Fix it yourself. Love your life so much that he finds the draw to it irresistble. This is the only way you will get another person to change their whole existence for you. And, if for some reason they cannot make the change, your life will be so great that it wont matter to you that much anyway. In other words, Grow Up. Its win/win Edited June 7, 2012 by SBC 6
Author SBC Posted June 7, 2012 Author Posted June 7, 2012 Radagast, I am delighted that you responded to this thread, because your story is one I found to be similiar to mine. I searched your name and read everything you wrote. You gave me a lot of hope in the past few months --you really helped me make it the last 5 yards. Thanks! 1
Owl Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 So what would my suggestion be as to "other factors?" Stop waiting for them to come fix your life. Fix it yourself. Love your life so much that he finds the draw to it irresistble. This is the only way you will get another person to change their whole existence for you. And, if for some reason they cannot make the change, your life will be so great that it wont matter to you that much anyway. In other words, Grow Up. Its win/win I can agree with this advice too. It's always best to start by taking care of yourself...improving yourself. For EXACTLY the reasons you stated. 3
Snowflower Posted June 7, 2012 Posted June 7, 2012 When our A started, my MM was the dictonary definition of "cake eater" He was not about to give up the comfortable existence he had so carefully crafted over the past 30 years. And who could blame him? He didn't hate his wife, they had just grown apart. He had friends, a business, a nice house, an expensive hobby. It was perfect. Well, almost perfect. His life lacked passion and he had no best friend. Two very important spices in the recipe of life. But like many men, in his mind, he thought he could have passion and a best friend on the side, and keep everything else in tact....thereby having "it all" *BZZZZT!* Wrong answer. For my part, I was a selfish, insecure, recently divorced woman who had never lived on her own before and who had never really worked before --someone who was terrified at the idea of having to make it on my own, and I was looking for someone/anyone to be my next husband, you know, so I could dodge that responsibility. When looked at through the proper glasses of perspective --it is not hard to see why he was not eager to leave anything behind to be with me in the early stages. Because I didnt love him, I didnt even know him --I was just looking for someone to fill a position, and he fit the bill. I think a lot of OW fit this description. But, we really liked hanging out together and slowly, VERY slowly, we began to really fall for each other. I always had a feeling inside me, call it a hunch, that he would possibly leave to be with me but he had so many issues to work though and I never knew how long it would take for him to work through them all. Or IF he even could. Not everyone can you know. Financially, emotionally, logisitcally. A lot of guilt, and grieving about unrealized dreams, failure and the hurting and disappoinment of others. It was a huge, ugly, super emotionally charged task for him. So, I didnt worry about it. I was fairly content to take what we had at face value. It was not always ideal, and often it was a big battle. I would get emotional, he would get UNemotional in response, so I would call "NO CONTACT" when I felt in a flush of frustration that I wanted to move on. The longest we ever went without talking was 7 weeks --then he put a flower on my car, and I called to thank him. During this time, I could sense he was working through a lot of his issues and I learned that I can take care of myself. I started to understand the value of work and I engaged in a really great hobby...one that I love and that I discoved I am pretty good at actually. And he started therapy to work through his junk. So, we both were just kinda rolling along and it was OK. We got to know each other. For lack of a better term, we dated. Did his wife know? We both suspect she did, but after almost 30 years, she was not eager to embrace change either. Just let it be and hope it goes away. Then I had a serious personal crisis, and I called him first --and he came when I called. It was then, and only then, that I knew for sure he was ready to leave. When he came to me that afternoon when I really needed him --that was the defining moment. He agrees with me on this. And since then, everything else has fallen into place. He and I have BOTH done a lot of maturing in the last 2.5 years, we both learned how to be INDEPENDENT people. I say proudly that this A has been the greatest relationship of my life. So what would my suggestion be as to "other factors?" Stop waiting for them to come fix your life. Fix it yourself. Love your life so much that he finds the draw to it irresistble. This is the only way you will get another person to change their whole existence for you. And, if for some reason they cannot make the change, your life will be so great that it wont matter to you that much anyway. In other words, Grow Up. Its win/win SBC, I really appreciated your honesty in this thought-provoking post. Much of what you write is such good advice for anyone in any relationship. 1
Author SBC Posted June 18, 2012 Author Posted June 18, 2012 I would love to say it is smooth sailing and sunny blue skies but, alas, this is real life and it is a challenge. That is OK though, I am busy doing my own thing as he continues to sort out his dirty laundry. We are deep in the process, and it is moving forward slowly. Thanks for asking!
merlin2 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Hi OP, So in effect, you posted this to lecture others that if a married man doesn't leave his wife within a certain amount of time,dont sweat-(he's complicated,and hey, dont pressure him,you might win him in the end?)It's all our fault as women ,dont be demanding blah blah.Well sorry,most people listen to their 'gut'.Their mind mind might tell them something else and try and rationalise this situation,but all it means is you are kidding yourself.Married men who seek affairs -it's just something they do and they can manipulate you to get their 'fix'. I think you jumped the gun a bit,and after 2.5 years got a bit carried away by telling your story here.It wasn't as if he had ACTUALLY left his wife when you write this?I'd love to hear your happy ending materialised,and i will watch this thread with bated breath....
merlin2 Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 For the record,statistically, if a man doesn't leave his wife for you early on in an affair,he isn't going to.They have a million excuses,keep you holding on.What's all this about he has issues he has gathered over 30 years?What??Who doesn't have 'issues'? Total copout!You can kid yourself,but most people have healthy one-on-one relationships despite having issues.If you choose to get involved with a married man,please dont try and 'normalise' your experience.It's not normal and as I type here, your future is still uncertain.You chose this path-you have realised that not all men fall for you,even if they say they do.Welcome to the real world.Ask anyone on this forum..I hope you haven't wasted your time on this man, (sadly I beleive you have)and if you have, well it's never too late...
Author SBC Posted June 18, 2012 Author Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Merlin, I did not post trying to lecture anyone. But thanks anyway for your reply. He DID move out. Not sure what makes you think otherwise. If I had told you that he moved out and everything was roses and sunshine, would you have believed that? Of course not. That is not realistic. Oh, and allow me to disagree with your statement that most people have healthy relationships regardless of issues. No, not really. Edited June 18, 2012 by SBC
Radagast Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 For the record,statistically, if a man doesn't leave his wife for you early on in an affair,he isn't going to.They have a million excuses,keep you holding on Could you please post the source of your statistics? I'd be very interested, as they seem to contradict my own experience as well as the experiences of others that I know personally. Of the stories I've read here, most of those married men who left their marriages for their lovers seemed to do so at the three to four year mark. SBC, I wish you well with the challenges.
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