Cryptonomic Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Hey all. I posted a related question in another forum here and got a good answer to one possible approach. What I want to do is try another way to ask the question. I realize any answer here would be specific to the person and is thus subjective. Context: I'm a guy. I take a train regularly from work to home. On this evening train I see a woman who rides it just as regularly as I do. It is a Metra-enforced quiet car (meaning not too much talking allowed). I have no specific knowledge of this woman and thus I have no idea what we do or do not have in common. What I do know is that, for some reason, I just would really like to at least strike up a conversation. I do have a feeling that she is a more reserved (possibly shy) person. Okay. So what I'm looking for is essentially viewpoints on this question: what's a good way to approach her? From a woman's viewpoint, that is. (I'm interested in what guys have to say in terms of what they might do, but a woman's viewpoint will probably tell me a bit more.) More specifically, I guess I'm looking for what various women would prefer to have happen. Or what would you prefer NOT to have happen? What would be uncomfortable? What would be okay? What would make the guy look like a total jerk (or maybe just an inconsiderate person)? ANY input at all is welcomed and appreciated.
Philosoraptor Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I'd start by giving a smile and wave when you catch her eye. If she gives a positive reaction you introduce yourself, if not you leave it be.
Oxy Moronovich Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Here's what you say, "I've been noticing this attractive lady who rides the train with me for quite a while. I thought I'd take the time to get to know her rather than being spineless and hoping she talks to me." Say it light-heartedly and with confidence.
Oxy Moronovich Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Barf! Pick up lines, trying to break the ice in a self-deprecating way or trying to explain or justify your reasons for talking to her are not good at all. Everybody (you and her) knows what you are doing and why. Be direct, smile, look her in the eyes, introduce yourself and ask her what her name is and go from there. Do not explain or justify why you are talking to her, do not try to tell her what you think she wants to hear / talk about, etc. Just have a conversation like you would with someone you are standing in line with. After your brief conversation and you are still interested... TELL her what you are going to do (getting a drink, getting a coffee, etc) and that she should join you. (Notice I didn't say ask) If she is interested, she will agree to join you or if she is busy or unsure, she will offer a better suggestion (let me give you my number, offer another time, etc.). She knows what you are doing and why so don't over-complicate with thinking of smooth pick up lines or worrying about what she is thinking or feeling. It's not the line itself, it's the confidence you present. I say practically anything that comes to mind. One time at a wine tasting event here in Austin, I walked up to a lady and said, "I love the taste of this wine. It reminds me of my armpit sweat." And she choked on drink and said, "What the f***?" I tell many people that story and few believe me when I say I scored a date with her. But it's true that I scored a date with her. Guys need to stop worrying about what to say. It's all about presentation. In business they say, "Location, location, location." When approaching women it's "presentation, presentation, presentation." Confidence and good humor will get you women. Don't worry about the actual things you say. Just say anything that comes to your mind, as long as it's not extremely offensive.
ThaWholigan Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Barf! Pick up lines, trying to break the ice in a self-deprecating way or trying to explain or justify your reasons for talking to her are not good at all. Everybody (you and her) knows what you are doing and why. Be direct, smile, look her in the eyes, introduce yourself and ask her what her name is and go from there. Do not explain or justify why you are talking to her, do not try to tell her what you think she wants to hear / talk about, etc. Just have a conversation like you would with a stranger you are standing in line with. After your brief conversation and you are still interested... TELL her what you are going to do (getting a drink, getting a coffee, etc) and that she should join you. (Notice I didn't say ask) If she is interested, she will agree to join you or if she is busy or unsure, she will offer a better suggestion (let me give you my number, offer another time, etc.). She knows what you are doing and why so don't over-complicate with thinking of smooth pick up lines or worrying about what she is thinking or feeling. It's not the line itself, it's the confidence you present. I say practically anything that comes to mind. One time at a wine tasting event here in Austin, I walked up to a lady and said, "I love the taste of this wine. It reminds me of my armpit sweat." And she choked on drink and said, "What the f***?" I tell many people that story and few believe me when I say I scored a date with her. But it's true that I scored a date with her. Guys need to stop worrying about what to say. It's all about presentation. In business they say, "Location, location, location." When approaching women it's "presentation, presentation, presentation." Confidence and good humor will get you women. Don't worry about the actual things you say. Just say anything that comes to your mind, as long as it's not extremely offensive. Different things work for different guys
Oxy Moronovich Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Different things work for different guys True. But you only need two things when approaching women: confidence and humor. You could easily walk up and introduce yourself. But it matters in the way you introduce yourself. If the OP walks up and says, "H-hi. M-my name Crypto. W-what yer n-name?" She'll take him for a creep and walk away to sit somewhere else. So he's gotta know about having confidence and humor. A line is a line, whether an intro or a pickup, it needs the proper presentation. 1
Oxy Moronovich Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I couldn't agree more. Women know what you are doing and why... So whatever "bullcrap" lines you say (if you don't go the direct route) without being offensive... A woman will overlook it to see what you are about / if they interested. If you need / like the "bullcrap" lines and they work for you... By all means, knock yourself out. You sound like the type of beta who sucks at approaching women and blame pickup lines. Pickup lines work as much as, "Hi, my name's gibson. What's yer name?" She could easily say, "My name is Not Interested" and move to another seat. The straight intro lacks humor and warmth. The whole point of a pickup line is to lower a woman's guard and see the humor. The best way to get a woman to lower her guard is to make them laugh. If you were good at approaching women, gibson, you'd realize this.
Author Cryptonomic Posted June 1, 2012 Author Posted June 1, 2012 Thanks to those posting! Yes, I do agree with a lot of the points: the other person clearly DOES know what you are doing, particularly if you both have traded a few stares here and there. And, likewise, I do believe that presentation is often paramount and confidence (as long as it is not unbridled arrogance) along with a bit of (sometimes self-deprecating) humor can work. I suppose I have been someone that has so long valued his "own space" that I tend to worry about intruding into someone else's, particularly if I don't know if the intrusion would be welcomed. And if the woman does get creeped out or just feels a bit uncomfortable, she might feel compelled to avoid that train car or whatever. But I suppose I could worry about things like that all the time and get absolutely nowhere. Another part of it is that, as I said, I have the impression that she is a bit reserved and/or shy or just values her quiet time. Literally the moment she sits down, she puts on a set of headphones and doesn't take them off for the entire trip. A few times she doesn't have them and she immediately starts reading either a Psychology Today or a Time magazine. (Errr ... not that I was noticing these details or anything.) Given that we also sit in a quiet car and thus any conversation, even if quiet, would be somewhat obvious to those sitting near, I stand a fairly good chance of putting her in a spot she just doesn't want to be in. Again, I realize I could just keep worrying about things like this and never actually do anything. Incidentally, I mentioned another post I made. In that one I was asking how creepy it would be if I got off at her stop one time and tried to strike up a conversation. My thinking process -- if such it could be called -- was that this (1) shows interest and (2) gets us a little away from making a marginally private conversation immediately public. What I didn't factor in was how creepy and/or stalker-ish such an approach might make me seem. Thanks again to those posting. I appreciate your remarks.
Oxy Moronovich Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Thanks to those posting! Yes, I do agree with a lot of the points: the other person clearly DOES know what you are doing, particularly if you both have traded a few stares here and there. And, likewise, I do believe that presentation is often paramount and confidence (as long as it is not unbridled arrogance) along with a bit of (sometimes self-deprecating) humor can work. I suppose I have been someone that has so long valued his "own space" that I tend to worry about intruding into someone else's, particularly if I don't know if the intrusion would be welcomed. And if the woman does get creeped out or just feels a bit uncomfortable, she might feel compelled to avoid that train car or whatever. But I suppose I could worry about things like that all the time and get absolutely nowhere. Another part of it is that, as I said, I have the impression that she is a bit reserved and/or shy or just values her quiet time. Literally the moment she sits down, she puts on a set of headphones and doesn't take them off for the entire trip. A few times she doesn't have them and she immediately starts reading either a Psychology Today or a Time magazine. (Errr ... not that I was noticing these details or anything.) Given that we also sit in a quiet car and thus any conversation, even if quiet, would be somewhat obvious to those sitting near, I stand a fairly good chance of putting her in a spot she just doesn't want to be in. Again, I realize I could just keep worrying about things like this and never actually do anything. Incidentally, I mentioned another post I made. In that one I was asking how creepy it would be if I got off at her stop one time and tried to strike up a conversation. My thinking process -- if such it could be called -- was that this (1) shows interest and (2) gets us a little away from making a marginally private conversation immediately public. What I didn't factor in was how creepy and/or stalker-ish such an approach might make me seem. Thanks again to those posting. I appreciate your remarks. Crypto, I totally understand where yer coming from bro. Totally. I value my personal space immensely. And I used to think exactly the way you do: how do I introduce myself without being intrusive to her? Honestly, I don't approach women who have headphones on or are immersed in books. That says she's locked in her own little world and feels uncomfortable in public. Women by nature are passive. The myth that women are more sociable than men is garbage. Women do things that signal their discomfort in public: having headphones all the time, dragging their friends with them to events, playing with their cellphone, reading, etc. Imagine walking up to her when she's got her headphones and saying, "Hi, my name gibson." She's going to be annoyed. The same thing if she was reading a book. The cold, humorless intro like that wouldn't be welcome. A humorous approach would be welcome.
spiderowl Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 You need to make sure she is comfortable being around you and knows you are not just desperate to hit on her. Yes, I know you do want to hit on her but other guys who do, do it badly. The typical guy will spot a woman and then try to get her attention by sitting nearby and keep peering at her. She is aware of this. She will be feeling anxious about what he's going to do because she knows he's looking. She might avoid his eyes - after all, she doesn't know him and he might be OK, he might not. He will try to move nearer or will move up and down the train/bus/whatever getting nearer all the time (circling). He will then make a clearer move like suddenly sitting opposite. He will look tense and this is where he can start looking creepy. He will want to strike up a conversation with her (she knows) and she will ignore him. He will wait till any obstructions (other people sitting nearby) move away or go to sleep before he starts trying to engage her in conversation. If she's not sure of him, she'll tense up and try to keep a distance while being polite and cool. However, the guy who will get chance to spend time with her might say hello from the beginning, in a friendly way, and then he'll go and sit somewhere else and not bother her. He won't circle. He won't keep trying to catch her eye. She might end up wondering what happened to that nice guy who said hello. Next time he sees her, he'll be warm and friendly again, and again leave her in peace. He might sit a bit nearer but won't bother her. When he leaves, he might leave his newspaper for her to read. So he's making contact but then leaving her to feel comfortable about him. She's not feeling under pressure. In fact, she's starting to think he seems a nice guy. If on the third occasion, he chats a bit longer, she won't mind and will probably engage in conversation with him. But if he senses discomfort, he should back off and keep a distance. Basically, any time she is feeling pressured and stalked, however innocently, she is not going to respond positively. Letting her relax and still making contact briefly is a far better option for building familiarity and positive feelings. Eventually, this kind of approach should build up into feeling comfortable chatting together and sitting together.
Author Cryptonomic Posted June 2, 2012 Author Posted June 2, 2012 Thanks again to everyone. SpiderOwl: Interestingly, a variation on your approach is what I was trying. I made sure there was actual eye contact -- as opposed to just accidental looking around the train car and happening to catch someone's eye. It's happened multiple times at this point. I'm at that stage now where I feel that too much more of this will make it harder for either of us to take the situation seriously. She will either see me as just apparently catching a few glances without any follow up or she will figure that I'm probably not interested (because, after all, nothing really happens). (Gibson: I understand how you might feel regarding these points, in terms of them being too involved. I do agree that some basics have worked for 5000+ years. But, then again, we have sites like this which suggest that things may or may not work and people do have differing approaches that men will try and women may accept. But as we see even on this site: some approaches are those that women don't like.) At some point -- and I mean quick -- I'm going to have to basically just approach her. And it's most likely going to have to be on the train. I was thinking of making a point of sitting closer to her. I get on the train well before she does. She tends to sit in the same spot every day. But it's not a guarantee. She gets there pretty late and sometimes the spots are filled up. (That would be my luck. I finally move closer -- and she ends up having to sit somewhere else that day.) [At which point I would probably cast numerous hexes upon fate.] But if this worked out, I would sit nearer to her. When she sits down, I would quietly just introduce myself, and trust in my ability to coherently ask if she was interested in talking further at some point. The only danger of this approach is that let's say she's just not interested at all. Not even a little bit. That's going to be an uncomfortable train ride home! I guess I could just get up and move to another car. But -- sheesh, talk about a walk of shame.
irc333 Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 It's not the line itself, it's the confidence you present. I say practically anything that comes to mind. One time at a wine tasting event here in Austin, I walked up to a lady and said, "I love the taste of this wine. It reminds me of my armpit sweat." And she choked on drink and said, "What the f***?" Though, funny! LOL.... If I said that, I'd probably get the creepy look and she'd walk away probably half or fully grossed out. I should try that one.....but instead of infringing on your copyright, I should say, "This tastes similar to my boogers". Sound good?
irc333 Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 The same thing if she was reading a book. The cold, humorless intro like that wouldn't be welcome. Ah, but....what she's reading the same book you JUST read a week ago? That changes things, no? NOW you have a reason to approach her!
louise_23 Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 this is such a nice question. i need to start taking the train more. anyway just be yourself and follow your instincts. sometimes i think the more you rehearse a scenario in your mind the more nervous it makes you...
DjinnAgain Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 I'm not sure about your age group but, as a 27 year old woman, I would be very unlikely to talk to you if you used Oxy's tact, no matter how confident you seem. (Actually, it could make it worse because I would peg you as wishes-he-was-a-player and would be the one case when I am not kind turning down a guy when I'm not interested.) For most reasonable women, I have to say, gibson's approach is better. Also, do it promptly. If she feels like you were watching her for a while, scooting closer, and then do it, it is far more likely for her to think you are creepy. Better to just next time you see her, go up, and say Hi. Women appreciate that. I can't speak for girls.
maybealone Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 A woman will overlook it to see what you are about / if they interested. Yes, this is true for most women. If we like you, we will find an excuse for nervous or corny or lame opening lines and just be happy you approached us.
GravityMan Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Stay away from using pickup lines. Leave that bullcrap in high school where it belongs.
Oxy Moronovich Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 I'm 40 years old sport and there will come a time where your cheesy PUA lines work against you. The age group of the women I date, they are offended and turned off by cheesy pick up lines. I will stick with what works very well for me. How many times do I have to tell you? It's not the pickup lines that get women, it's the confidence and sense of humor. Don't worry about the opening lines. Get her attention, get her interested in witty conversation, and get her number. From there, concentrate on getting her in bed. That's all. No wonder some of you guys on this forum suck with women. You worry about the opening lines too much to see the forest for the trees. Though, funny! LOL.... If I said that, I'd probably get the creepy look and she'd walk away probably half or fully grossed out. I should try that one.....but instead of infringing on your copyright, I should say, "This tastes similar to my boogers". Sound good? Infringe on the copyright, my man. It's for any guy to use at his leisure. Ah, but....what she's reading the same book you JUST read a week ago? That changes things, no? NOW you have a reason to approach her! True, I forgot about that one. If she's reading a book you're familiar with, then you can engage her in the topic. Or you pretend to be knowledgeable or interested in the subject. For example, this chick who frequents the same Starbucks I do reads the Hunger Games series. I knew little about the Hunger Games but when I talked about it with her, she was happy to talk about it. I'm not sure about your age group but, as a 27 year old woman, I would be very unlikely to talk to you if you used Oxy's tact, no matter how confident you seem. (Actually, it could make it worse because I would peg you as wishes-he-was-a-player and would be the one case when I am not kind turning down a guy when I'm not interested.) Djinn, are you a female? If so, I wanna remind the OP women will say one thing but do another: "I wouldn't date a guy who was a total jerk to me," they'll say before getting into a relationship with a guy who makes Charlie Sheen look like Garrison Keilor. Stay away from using pickup lines. Leave that bullcrap in high school where it belongs. OP, I've read GravityMan's posts. He's actually stated he doesn't believe men should approach women in public establishments like grocery stores, trains, libraries, bookstores, coffeeshops, etc. Why? Because only the players are worthy enough to pickup women in public, he says. The lame dudes on LoveShack will give you some of the worst advice on dating known to man. You seriously need to be mindful of who is giving you the advice and what kind they are giving you.
Author Cryptonomic Posted June 2, 2012 Author Posted June 2, 2012 Thanks once again, everyone. I think my path is clear. This upcoming Monday I will bolt down the trepidation, screw on some courage, prepare to be humbled, and "make my move." Here "make my move" is just sitting in the area where I know she tends to sit. If she is on the train that day and sits in that area, I will quickly try to start up a conversation before the train leaves. (The "quiet car" aspect isn't enforced by Metra until the train leaves the station so, if nothing else, it leaves me a window of opportunity.) My plan is just to be open and honest. She clearly knows that we have traded some glances. At least once she smiled back. I've noticed her stare a few times and when I looked up, she quickly looked away (but not with any apparent staggering amount of disgust on her face). So me moving closer will obviously be an attempt to initiate a conversation. I will try to work in some wit but, honestly, I think once I get going, my confidence won't be a problem. It's the lead-up that worries me. Once you're in the thick of it, you're sort of in it for better or worse. I just really, really, really hope I do not make her uncomfortable. I'm fine with her saying not interested; but if I make her daily commute home stressful, that's just going to be very disheartening. I do thank you all for participating in this discussion. It was definitely interesting to hear the different viewpoints and approaches.
Author Cryptonomic Posted June 6, 2012 Author Posted June 6, 2012 So ... for those curious ... I actually did end up approaching the woman I was referring to on the train. I tried to talk with her twice on the train but too many people kept taking up the spots. So I finally did what I thought might be a wrong move: I got off at her stop and just basically introduced myself. She actually seemed okay with that approach. At the very least, she didn't mace me or run for the hills. She was very friendly and understanding and admitted that it is quite hard to meet somone on the quiet car of a train. On the other hand, I did ask her if she wanted to grab a lunch sometime since we both work downtown. She said "I'll get back to you." I realize I put her on the spot and this could just mean she needs time to think about it. But I also know "I'll get back to you" tends to me "thanks, but no thanks." Ultimately, I'm actually glad I approached her. Even if she is not interested, I'm glad that I made what I hope was a courteous move to get to know her a little better.
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