Thoughts...

[Cowboysfan21]

I came to this forum after reading Doc Love's columns on AskMen. Unfortunately, I couldn't seem to find any advice on my particular situation, and was hoping that a few of you on these boards can give me the same kind of honest, un-sugarcoated advice that Doc Love offers his readers. My story is long because the are many details that make it unique from the common questions Doc Love has given guidance on. I know this will deter some people, but I hope that a few readers choose to bear with me and can offer me some much needed advice. Here's my story:

 

My ex-girlfriend and I dated two years. We met during our Freshman year in college and have just completed our Junior year. We had our ups and downs like any other long-term relationship, but we truly loved each other through it all. And, in the words of Doc Love, her interest level was always high.*

 

My ex, along with many of our friends, chose to study in Europe during the Fall semester of this past year min the months leading up to her departure, we had many discussions on what the status of our relationship would be while she was gone. Ultimately we decided we would be on a break We knew it wasnt ideal but we're both young and didn't want a meaningless hook up or two to destroy our relationship. However, we didn't decide whether or not we would tell each other if we did get with anyone while we were apart.*

 

When I went back to school and she to to Europe, nothing had changed. We talked as much as two people separated by 7 time zones possibly could, and it wasn't long after that that she was questioning the break. She informed me that she was talking about me to her friends abroad constantly, and referring to me as her boyfriend. A month into our time apart, she told me that she wanted to be exclusive, and told me that she wasn't sure if she would be able to take me back if she found out that i had been with anyone else. I knew it felt like to her that we were already a couple again, and to be honest, she had a point--we were saying I love you to each other, and i began to plan a trip to visit her over my Thanksgiving holiday. Nevertheless, I told her that I thought what she was doing was unfair, and we agreed to postpone the conversation for a few days. What she didn't know at that point was that I had hooked up with other girls a few times, and I felt like it wasn't a good idea to divulge that information over Skype or Facebook. A few days passed and instead of continuing our postponed conversation, I told myself that I would be faithful to her for the rest of our time apart. I was successful in doing so, and it wasn't until my first night visiting her in Europe that the topic of the break came up again. "So are we still on a break?" she said to me jokingly, and we both knew the answer. We were happy and picked up exactly where we left off.*

 

A month after we returned to school following our Christmas breaks, she learned that I had hooked up with one of the other two girls. She didn't know many details, but she knew that I had been with this other girl more than once. She was hysterical and refused to talk to me for a week or so. She insisted that my i led her to believe that i was being faithful to her all along, and she couldnt understand how i could plan a trip to see her and sAy imlove you one day, and hookmupmwith another girl the next. When she finally agreed to hear my side of the story, she asked me if there was anyone else I hadn't told her about, and I lied and told her no. In truth, I was planning on coming clean about the other girl eventually, but I knew that if I had told her then, I would have lost any chance at talking to her again for a while. I wanted to wait until she had cooled down a little bit more. We were still broken up and i didn't think that it was vital for me to come clean yet. By the time I was able to convince her to sit down with me again, she found out about the other girl. I had made a decent amount of progress in the past week, and it was all destroyed.*

 

As things cooled off again and i gave her more space, I began my attempt for forgiveness. We spoke from time to time over the next couple of weeks, but it never got anywhere. I sat down and wrote her a letter defending myself and my actions, and taking responsibility for the mistakes I had made and *lies that i told. I wrote about what she and our relationship meant to me and apologized for ruining it. It was long but she read in front of me in tears. When she finished she invited me into her bed. We hooked up that night, and the night after. We talked about it and knew it was a mistake, but a few days later she came to my room and woke me up and it happened again. A few days later on the morning that we were leaving for Spring break, she came to my room to say goodbye. She ended up staying for an hour. Over the weeklong break, I refrained from initiating contact with her, but she contacted me several times. I took her contacting me as a sign she was beginning to forgive me, and stepped up my efforts for the last stretch of the semester. I brought breakfast to her room on several occasions and filled her rooms dozens of flowers when as an invitation to my Spring formal. She accepted but made it clear that we were not a couple. That weekend at my formal, for the first time since our breakup, she told me she loved me. For the last few weeks of the semester, I was her date to her formal, we left parties together, and spent a lot of time hanging out. She stayed on campus after the school year ended to watch my team's first play off game, and spent the night in my room. When she left she made it clear that we still weren't together. As she had told me for the past month, she repeated that she wished she could pretend like nothing happened between us, but she still wasnt ready to forgive me. I asked if she wanted me to give her space over the summer break, and she told me that we weren't idiots and could talk without it getting too serious.

 

She followed my next 2 NCAA playoff games online and we would talk afterwards, but when I returned home a few weeks ago, I left it to her to initiate contact. One night she texted me late saying she loved me and I told her I knew. A few days later she texted me again but I was out and ignored her. She began to see that I was giving her space, and contacted me the other day furious. She thought that I was moving on and accused my actions to win her back as being fake, and I explained I was giving her the space she said she wanted. She texted me later to apologize and we spoke for an hour without either of us bringing up our relationship. Finally I asked again if she wanted space or not. She told me she wasn't sure, that she was still confused and exhausted by it all. She said she still can't trust me, and that although she wishes she could, she wants to be able to trust her boyfriend. She then asked if had hooked up with anyone yet this summer. I told her no (this time it was the truth), and that i had no desire to. She reminded me i could do whatever i wanted with other girls and i told her i was doing exactly what i wanted in not pursuing them. She finally said that she and I want and need different things, and when I asked her what she needed and wanted she said, "I need to distance myself from you...but I want to be able to put it all behind me."

 

As I was writing the last sentence, at 12:30 AM, she texted me again. She said told me she just wanted to say hi, that she was going to bed, and that she would talk to me later.

 

I know about all the mistakes i've made in trying to win her back. Doc Love would throw his book at me, and I'm definitely going to buy "The System" to save me from future meltdowns. But the reason I think my situation is unique is because although we broke up because of other girls, I never technically cheated on her, and she admits this much. Doc Love says after you cheat on a girl, in most cases you should move on because the relationship is likely ruined for good. But in this case I think I still have hope for forgiveness.*I lied to her because of the unfortunate position I put myself in, but I've thought all along that eventually she'll be able to gain back my trust.

 

I guess I want some advice on a few things. First, it's been nearly 4 months since we broke up. I would think by now, if she was going to forgive me, she would have. How long can forgiveness take, and does this mean it's never going to come. And if forgiveness is still a possibility, do you believe she is still interested? I'm aware that she could me stringing me along as a safety net or for ego reasons, but I know her well and she isn't the kind of girl to do that. She's strong, she's not heartless.

 

I know that we won't be a couple anytime soon. I'm leaving for Europe in a few weeks until mid-August, which might be contributing to her refusal to take me back right mow. But next semester it will be difficult for her to avoid me. We go to a small school and are in the same social circle. So ii could use some help how to give her what she wants both in person (we'll be at several of the same parties in the next couple of weeks) and in communicating, when she doesn't even know what she wants herself. Her friends are confident that eventually she'll take me back,but she comes from a family of strong women so I'm sure they're in her ear about moving on without me.

 

Any advice on whats really going on in her head and on how to interact with her to regain some of her trust would be greatly appreciated. I've had plenty of time to think over the last 1/3 year and I know exactly what I want and what this girl means to me. Now I just need to figure out how to act.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Cowboysfan21
Want to change the title

[aiyam]

I guess i could understand where she is coming from. It's a trust issue and it is never easy to regain that one. But if you can overcome this successfully, it will make your relationship strong. But it's really gonna take a lot of time, effort, understanding and patience on your part. She was really hurt about what happened during the 'break up' thing. Even though you said you are not in a relationship that time that your hooked up happened, she believed in what you have as a couple, in your love for her. And knowing that you had not become loyal to that feeling was hurting to her and also, made her doubt her thinking, her feeling. Added the fact that she asked you again and you lied again, it's like adding insult to the injury.

 

Her actions after that events, like still being with you intimately means that she still loves you, and the words that she is saying that you're not yet a couple again is like her barrier to protect herself from the possibility of you hurting her again. She is using her mind to protect whats left of her. You did not just hurt her heart but also her ego. And she needs time to rebuild that. To be confident again on herself that you will not cheat on her. Because it makes someone paranoid when somebody cheats on you.

 

She might actually have forgiven you, but the really difficult part is forgetting. Eventhough she wants to put those bad memories behind, somehow, it keeps coming back, especially if some situations arise. Like you being apart again, or most likely when something different will happen.

 

If you really love her and you are sure that you want her, you have to be ready for the repeated asking of questions, of the doubt because it will arise from time to time until she gets healed. On how long, nobody knows. Even her, she will not know. You will have to constantly reassure her of your feelings, not only in words but in actions. It's better that you start off again as friends for now, and win that trust back again, and that is also what would be fair for you. Rather than she commiting to you again but doubting and not trusing you. You have to be patient in waiting, when she decides shes ready, and you wanted to commit again, you have to talk about leaving it all behind and looking forward.

[Lobouspo]

LDR's are tough enough as it is, but to work on problems that you guys have, you need to be together in the same area for an extended period of time. That way trust can rebuild when time and communication with each other is more personal and consistent. I would keep the lines of communication open. Let her know how you feel, but give her her space.

[Ninjainpajamas]

*Warning* I'm going to give you the advice you need but It's going to require some ball-busting on my part

 

You're lucky I read your post...because I'm going to enlighten you quite thoroughly, That's If you are mentally and more importantly emotionally willing to finally understand this situation.

 

Let's start off by saying you're completely in a defensive posture, stubbornly holding onto a few ideas you have in your head of what makes you "guilty" or "innocent" in this situation. And this will completely lead you to no understanding, information only goes out in this state, not in. You are too worried about being the bad guy and having to admit you did anything remotely wrong.

 

You've taken a completely logical stand-point...which for a man, is the first foolish mistake, because you will never understand a woman rationalizing the entire situation out like It's a battlefield and determining what is present and what is not by what you see on the map. The reason you can't figure this out is because the details aren't on the map, yet you keep surveying the topography as If some new clue will jump out at you and the situation will make more sense and you'll be able to use whatever tactic you need to resolve this obstacle and resolve the situation using the same mindset you used to detect the problem. All because you lack the awareness or refuse to think outside the box .

 

Also understand that anyone giving advice with a broad stroke can only be so precise as in the Love Dr, although many relationships and challenges in them are to a very high degree generic at times...It's up to the "reader" you to interpret what information is applicable to them and what is not...and well If you knew that then you probably wouldn't even need much advice now would you? There is at least a small amount of information needed to be able to more thoroughly understand what situation you are dealing with.

 

I'm afraid your situation is not as unique as you perceive it to be, in fact many men commit the same exacts under the same pretenses only to find themselves confused why they are now in "trouble".

 

Now for the breakdown...

 

Your first crucial mistake in this relationship is underestimating the emotional value/ feelings at stake here. You have completely disregarded the emotional impact your actions would have had she been with another man during your "break". Regardless of whether you were in a technical relationship or not during this time.

 

How do you think it feels for someone who claims to love the other person to find out that they shortly decided they already would sleep with someone else? Does that sound like the deep values and profound emotions of love?

 

She clearly acted in a way that she was having a hard time dealing with these circumstances from the beginning when you were not as a couple, she clearly was indicating that she worried about growing apart and made efforts to maintain this love she thought you had...a love that wouldn't have so easily swayed into between the legs of another woman..so how do think she feels that you acted out so easily and diligently as If emotionally there was no impact on your heart during these "sexual encounters"? Encounters you saw as light fun and careless whoring, or were this women important too? I'm sure you can tell yourself that all you want If you had to and probably believe it.

 

And how profound is your love for her that you can kiss and **** another woman while still telling another woman that you love her in the meantime? I'm not one to paint the roses red, I've been a cheater, likely far more than you'll ever be and I can at least admit the truth, but they were not things I could admit to myself in the past and I can see the same within you.

 

I seriously doubt your emotions for this woman, because any man with options has to be extremely compelled to be faithful regardless of whether he had relationship over his head or not...a man who is in love with a woman does not easily sleep with another because although his body may be in that bad she is still in his head and in his heart and It is not so easy to push her in the back of your mind and forget about her in that moment...with women you may love yes, but not in love with...It will eat you up like a disease and break you down.

 

So you think these experiences probably validated your emotions for her right? You probably think that you truly are in love with her because you didn't fall for these other women or lose that interest and love for her?

 

Let's go that route then...let's say you really do think you love this girl, which I'm positive you do...then why do you think winning her over would be as simple treating her like a princess and romancing her for a bit and writing long-winded emails professing your love, confessing your sins...of course with the small print of "yet technically I didn't do anything wrong, so yeah!"...I mean really Romeo? You think that's what love is? Doing a few things you seen in a few romantic comedies that every guy could do or some other grand gesture you can come up with will..abracadabra!, make the world a better place and everything will go back to your normal....

 

Ever heard the saying that it's not what you do when people are watching who you really are...It's what they do when they're not? Well how about If you really loved this girl you wouldn't have bedded some easy pickings month or a few months after she had just left?...No one was looking, there was no obligation, yet look at your choice...that says far more than any words, bed of roses and promises you can make.

 

But you're not being honest with yourself, because you don't want to be and your refuse to. In fact the best thing you could have done was say "Hey, I really need to be honest..during our break, I hooked up with a few girls and It's over now, It wasn't anything serious but I have to let you know the truth"...You didn't need to defend yourself, or omit the truth to save face...you know that made you look like? a douchebag, a liar, a manipulator...why? because you knew that not telling the whole truth would get you in trouble and If there's a quality in a man that's as predictable as It is unforgivable to a woman it's lying....YOU chose to lie to save your own ass, to get what you wanted...not because you were saving her or protecting her but because YOU knew what it would to this girl If you told her the truth, because you knew it was wrong and you have a hard time admitting that to yourself..yet you took the easy way out..not once, but twice and then you sit there and ask yourself what you did wrong? Are you kidding me? you seem like a smart guy, but maybe a bit too prideful? because you're trying to outsmart yourself and it ain't working on ANYONE.

 

By continuing to lie, you dug yourself in a bigger whole...and If you really weren't cheating then why in the hell wouldn't you tell her what you did then? you weren't in trouble right? you did nothing wrong? you had all the right in the world to stick it in whatever you wanted right? that's bull****, because If you really believed It was that simple then you would have easily said so, you don't seem like the type of guy that wouldn't put the facts out there immediately unless they weren't in your favor.

 

Because she is a woman, and because women try she struggled on...trying to bring back the relationship, for those sweet, fond and loving memories that she had of you. But just like she tried to follow her mind before and failed, she did the same again...and she realized how much your actions hurt her. Do you understand that? you inflicted a GREAT deal of pain upon this woman who was in love with you and thought you were in love with her, she thought you were on the same page, hand in hand...struggling with her emotions and feeling like she just couldn't let you go all the while you were banging a some other chicks.

 

Do you understand how hurtful she may feel over that and how little consolation it gives that you kind of waive that "get out of jail" free card of not having "technically" been in a relationship...she never left you emotionally! Women do not define or determine their emotions based on the status, details, situation of the relationship...they either feel or do not feel, without rules, guidelines, barriers...all of that does absolutely nothing to ease her pain...you made choices on your own free will that don't you think in a way demonstrated the way you really feel for her?

 

To put it in man speak It's like in the mobster movies where they're about to shoot you in the chest and the guy goes "It's nothing personal...It's business"...would that make you feel any better that you're about to get plugged? that this guys going to make you swim with the fishes in a few moments? would it make you forgive the betrayal and awestruck of being killed by the people you trusted and whacked other people with? hell no it wouldn't mean a damn thing!

 

And you could sing that song all day long "But I really loved this girl....even though I was sleeping with other women"...I'm a man and I've made the same mistakes in my past..but that's really just telling ourselves something to make us feel more in the right...we know the consequences, we know what it is, we're not idiots here...the problem is when we've got to pay the toll keeper and get caught we want to twist the truth and reality and devalue the other women or the act itself in hopes of it making us look like not that bad of guys...that it just happened! You need to realize that you make a choice, it has a consequence and you're no fool...you know inside of yourself whether you're doing something bad or not, whether it's cheating or not...whether you're obligated or not, WE KNOW ultimately how it will make the woman we supposedly love feel...and when that becomes more important to us (how the other woman feels) than pounding a new vagina that's when you're ready to really be with and commit to that woman.

So what am I saying?

 

What you already know...you're not ready to be with and commit to this girl.

 

You've already broken her heart and shattered her trust...you could talk to her in 5 years and take it from me I guarantee you she will remember what you did to her, like it happened yesterday. And If she is over it she will not suffer the pain even though ultimately it is and will be there for a long-time, it may be a long road depending on the woman how fast or whether she copes with that...it depends how important and how much you meant for her...which two years in my experience isn't that awful long of a time even though for a lot of people it is in their relationship history so it depends how significant this has been but it sounds pretty significant.

 

But in the meantime it's going to take a lot for her to forgive you, likely a pretty long time. It's not just going to go away, every time she is with you she remembers what you did, the choice you made...women have impeccable memories and It's typically very hard for them to get over something this cataclysmic, because she seems to have had a lot of emotions invested.

 

You will likely try and try, and every time you think you've gained ground you'll feel like you're starting over...every time you disappear or she doesn't hear from you she'll be thinking of what you may doing, who you might be with. She can't trust you anymore...you don't understand that she already did, she never believed you had the capacity to be with anyone else, she thought you were in love with her as much as she was with you. She'll never see you in the same light EVER again, you've changed this eternally for her.

 

So even IF she does get back into a relationship with you...many women do, you'll have a rough time of it. But If you're crazy/foolish enough to think you're ready to completely commit to this woman now even though you didn't before considering the long-distance then you're going to have to really do the hard work. You'll have to just be there, be faithful, not be with any other woman, communicate with her all the time, rebuild the friendship, rebuild the trust...you have to show her through actions...not gifts, wining and dining and words that you truly love her and what you did was a mistake and that comes first with being completely honest, you need to stop bull****ting yourself and trying to hide behind your noble defense...you've got to completely give it up and submit, regardless of whether you think it's right or wrong, do you want the woman would you rather be right? what's more important to you?

 

Regardless of the outcome what is more important is you learn the value and respect the emotions of a woman and realize how deep rooted their feelings are, they feel everything we feel but 3x that in general...with men, we can be distant, detach, selfish, careless, or just plain fools but realize the rules of love aren't determined by just you, and every action has a consequence..whenever you get confused, stop thinking...especially about how you feel or what you think and start trying to imagine what it's like to be in her shoes and what she feels..listen to her, understand her, take the time and give up the ego/pride.

 

And If you're not ready it's ok...don't put yourself in a situation where you know you will fail and have to cover it up with more lies. Learn to be honest, not with just women but with yourself, plenty of douchebags out there think they're casanovas by sweet talking and acting like a charming guy when it counts, be being genuine and sincere and selfless is something that they don't even know how to be...and at least in my book being a man is not being afraid to be so, or you're just a fake, a coward that pretends he must always defend himself and use a woman's emotional capacity against her to get what they want..when any fool can accomplish that.

[Cowboysfan21]

*Warning* I'm going to give you the advice you need but It's going to require some ball-busting on my part

 

You're lucky I read your post...because I'm going to enlighten you quite thoroughly, That's If you are mentally and more importantly emotionally willing to finally understand this situation.

 

Let's start off by saying you're completely in a defensive posture, stubbornly holding onto a few ideas you have in your head of what makes you "guilty" or "innocent" in this situation. And this will completely lead you to no understanding, information only goes out in this state, not in. You are too worried about being the bad guy and having to admit you did anything remotely wrong.

 

You've taken a completely logical stand-point...which for a man, is the first foolish mistake, because you will never understand a woman rationalizing the entire situation out like It's a battlefield and determining what is present and what is not by what you see on the map. The reason you can't figure this out is because the details aren't on the map, yet you keep surveying the topography as If some new clue will jump out at you and the situation will make more sense and you'll be able to use whatever tactic you need to resolve this obstacle and resolve the situation using the same mindset you used to detect the problem. All because you lack the awareness or refuse to think outside the box .

 

Also understand that anyone giving advice with a broad stroke can only be so precise as in the Love Dr, although many relationships and challenges in them are to a very high degree generic at times...It's up to the "reader" you to interpret what information is applicable to them and what is not...and well If you knew that then you probably wouldn't even need much advice now would you? There is at least a small amount of information needed to be able to more thoroughly understand what situation you are dealing with.

 

I'm afraid your situation is not as unique as you perceive it to be, in fact many men commit the same exacts under the same pretenses only to find themselves confused why they are now in "trouble".

 

Now for the breakdown...

 

Your first crucial mistake in this relationship is underestimating the emotional value/ feelings at stake here. You have completely disregarded the emotional impact your actions would have had she been with another man during your "break". Regardless of whether you were in a technical relationship or not during this time.

 

How do you think it feels for someone who claims to love the other person to find out that they shortly decided they already would sleep with someone else? Does that sound like the deep values and profound emotions of love?

 

She clearly acted in a way that she was having a hard time dealing with these circumstances from the beginning when you were not as a couple, she clearly was indicating that she worried about growing apart and made efforts to maintain this love she thought you had...a love that wouldn't have so easily swayed into between the legs of another woman..so how do think she feels that you acted out so easily and diligently as If emotionally there was no impact on your heart during these "sexual encounters"? Encounters you saw as light fun and careless whoring, or were this women important too? I'm sure you can tell yourself that all you want If you had to and probably believe it.

 

And how profound is your love for her that you can kiss and **** another woman while still telling another woman that you love her in the meantime? I'm not one to paint the roses red, I've been a cheater, likely far more than you'll ever be and I can at least admit the truth, but they were not things I could admit to myself in the past and I can see the same within you.

 

I seriously doubt your emotions for this woman, because any man with options has to be extremely compelled to be faithful regardless of whether he had relationship over his head or not...a man who is in love with a woman does not easily sleep with another because although his body may be in that bad she is still in his head and in his heart and It is not so easy to push her in the back of your mind and forget about her in that moment...with women you may love yes, but not in love with...It will eat you up like a disease and break you down.

 

So you think these experiences probably validated your emotions for her right? You probably think that you truly are in love with her because you didn't fall for these other women or lose that interest and love for her?

 

Let's go that route then...let's say you really do think you love this girl, which I'm positive you do...then why do you think winning her over would be as simple treating her like a princess and romancing her for a bit and writing long-winded emails professing your love, confessing your sins...of course with the small print of "yet technically I didn't do anything wrong, so yeah!"...I mean really Romeo? You think that's what love is? Doing a few things you seen in a few romantic comedies that every guy could do or some other grand gesture you can come up with will..abracadabra!, make the world a better place and everything will go back to your normal....

 

Ever heard the saying that it's not what you do when people are watching who you really are...It's what they do when they're not? Well how about If you really loved this girl you wouldn't have bedded some easy pickings month or a few months after she had just left?...No one was looking, there was no obligation, yet look at your choice...that says far more than any words, bed of roses and promises you can make.

 

But you're not being honest with yourself, because you don't want to be and your refuse to. In fact the best thing you could have done was say "Hey, I really need to be honest..during our break, I hooked up with a few girls and It's over now, It wasn't anything serious but I have to let you know the truth"...You didn't need to defend yourself, or omit the truth to save face...you know that made you look like? a douchebag, a liar, a manipulator...why? because you knew that not telling the whole truth would get you in trouble and If there's a quality in a man that's as predictable as It is unforgivable to a woman it's lying....YOU chose to lie to save your own ass, to get what you wanted...not because you were saving her or protecting her but because YOU knew what it would to this girl If you told her the truth, because you knew it was wrong and you have a hard time admitting that to yourself..yet you took the easy way out..not once, but twice and then you sit there and ask yourself what you did wrong? Are you kidding me? you seem like a smart guy, but maybe a bit too prideful? because you're trying to outsmart yourself and it ain't working on ANYONE.

 

By continuing to lie, you dug yourself in a bigger whole...and If you really weren't cheating then why in the hell wouldn't you tell her what you did then? you weren't in trouble right? you did nothing wrong? you had all the right in the world to stick it in whatever you wanted right? that's bull****, because If you really believed It was that simple then you would have easily said so, you don't seem like the type of guy that wouldn't put the facts out there immediately unless they weren't in your favor.

 

Because she is a woman, and because women try she struggled on...trying to bring back the relationship, for those sweet, fond and loving memories that she had of you. But just like she tried to follow her mind before and failed, she did the same again...and she realized how much your actions hurt her. Do you understand that? you inflicted a GREAT deal of pain upon this woman who was in love with you and thought you were in love with her, she thought you were on the same page, hand in hand...struggling with her emotions and feeling like she just couldn't let you go all the while you were banging a some other chicks.

 

Do you understand how hurtful she may feel over that and how little consolation it gives that you kind of waive that "get out of jail" free card of not having "technically" been in a relationship...she never left you emotionally! Women do not define or determine their emotions based on the status, details, situation of the relationship...they either feel or do not feel, without rules, guidelines, barriers...all of that does absolutely nothing to ease her pain...you made choices on your own free will that don't you think in a way demonstrated the way you really feel for her?

 

To put it in man speak It's like in the mobster movies where they're about to shoot you in the chest and the guy goes "It's nothing personal...It's business"...would that make you feel any better that you're about to get plugged? that this guys going to make you swim with the fishes in a few moments? would it make you forgive the betrayal and awestruck of being killed by the people you trusted and whacked other people with? hell no it wouldn't mean a damn thing!

 

And you could sing that song all day long "But I really loved this girl....even though I was sleeping with other women"...I'm a man and I've made the same mistakes in my past..but that's really just telling ourselves something to make us feel more in the right...we know the consequences, we know what it is, we're not idiots here...the problem is when we've got to pay the toll keeper and get caught we want to twist the truth and reality and devalue the other women or the act itself in hopes of it making us look like not that bad of guys...that it just happened! You need to realize that you make a choice, it has a consequence and you're no fool...you know inside of yourself whether you're doing something bad or not, whether it's cheating or not...whether you're obligated or not, WE KNOW ultimately how it will make the woman we supposedly love feel...and when that becomes more important to us (how the other woman feels) than pounding a new vagina that's when you're ready to really be with and commit to that woman.

So what am I saying?

 

What you already know...you're not ready to be with and commit to this girl.

 

You've already broken her heart and shattered her trust...you could talk to her in 5 years and take it from me I guarantee you she will remember what you did to her, like it happened yesterday. And If she is over it she will not suffer the pain even though ultimately it is and will be there for a long-time, it may be a long road depending on the woman how fast or whether she copes with that...it depends how important and how much you meant for her...which two years in my experience isn't that awful long of a time even though for a lot of people it is in their relationship history so it depends how significant this has been but it sounds pretty significant.

 

But in the meantime it's going to take a lot for her to forgive you, likely a pretty long time. It's not just going to go away, every time she is with you she remembers what you did, the choice you made...women have impeccable memories and It's typically very hard for them to get over something this cataclysmic, because she seems to have had a lot of emotions invested.

 

You will likely try and try, and every time you think you've gained ground you'll feel like you're starting over...every time you disappear or she doesn't hear from you she'll be thinking of what you may doing, who you might be with. She can't trust you anymore...you don't understand that she already did, she never believed you had the capacity to be with anyone else, she thought you were in love with her as much as she was with you. She'll never see you in the same light EVER again, you've changed this eternally for her.

 

So even IF she does get back into a relationship with you...many women do, you'll have a rough time of it. But If you're crazy/foolish enough to think you're ready to completely commit to this woman now even though you didn't before considering the long-distance then you're going to have to really do the hard work. You'll have to just be there, be faithful, not be with any other woman, communicate with her all the time, rebuild the friendship, rebuild the trust...you have to show her through actions...not gifts, wining and dining and words that you truly love her and what you did was a mistake and that comes first with being completely honest, you need to stop bull****ting yourself and trying to hide behind your noble defense...you've got to completely give it up and submit, regardless of whether you think it's right or wrong, do you want the woman would you rather be right? what's more important to you?

 

Regardless of the outcome what is more important is you learn the value and respect the emotions of a woman and realize how deep rooted their feelings are, they feel everything we feel but 3x that in general...with men, we can be distant, detach, selfish, careless, or just plain fools but realize the rules of love aren't determined by just you, and every action has a consequence..whenever you get confused, stop thinking...especially about how you feel or what you think and start trying to imagine what it's like to be in her shoes and what she feels..listen to her, understand her, take the time and give up the ego/pride.

 

And If you're not ready it's ok...don't put yourself in a situation where you know you will fail and have to cover it up with more lies. Learn to be honest, not with just women but with yourself, plenty of douchebags out there think they're casanovas by sweet talking and acting like a charming guy when it counts, be being genuine and sincere and selfless is something that they don't even know how to be...and at least in my book being a man is not being afraid to be so, or you're just a fake, a coward that pretends he must always defend himself and use a woman's emotional capacity against her to get what they want..when any fool can accomplish that.

 

Ninja,

 

I agree with much of what you wrote, and I really appreciate not only you giving up the time to read my post but to respond with one of similar length not truly are a good person for giving up so much time for someone that you thought acted as a douchebag. And I did act like a douchebag. I did defend myself at first under the pretense of the break, but believe me that's in the past. She knows now that I betrayed her, but that I did so out of my own insecurities. The main reason I wanted to be on a break wasn't so I could have some time bedding other girls (I know this is irrelevant but I didn't have sex with either of them), instead, I wanted the break because I was more concerned with her actions, and being hurt by a mistake that she could make. I allowed myself to do what I did not just because I was thinking with my manhood, but mostly because I worried myself with thoughts of what she could be doing. as much as she needs to forgive me, I needed to change these ways if I ever wanted any chance at forgiveness, and that's what I've been focused on doing.

 

I think you have a wrong read on me though, I'm not as naive as you may think. You're exactly right--at first I defended myself from a logical position, and learned quickly that it was a mistake and that logic in this situation was completely irrelvant. In all honesty, i reached this enlightenment that you promised a few months after our breakup,mwhen I began to accept responsibility for my mistakes. I think you would agree that seeing the devastation that you can impart on someone you know (I don't think I love her, I know) that you love has got to be one of the worst feelings in the world. It hurts enough to see her upset, but to know that I was the one who caused that pain makes its 100x worse. Because of the way I feel about her, I wouldn't think to try to win her back without knowing for sure that I would never do something to cause her pain for as long as she let me be close to her. I know a 2 year relationship doesn't seem like a long one, but when you attend a small school like the one she and I go to, 2 years is far longer than you think. I've lived in the same building as her all 3 years at school, so it's almost as if we've been living together since we started dating.

 

I would say that for now my goal isn't to win her over, and I misspoke if I phrased it like that. What my goal is is to be given the opportunity to, through my actions allow her to forgive me and earn back her trust. Of course I want nothing more than to be with her, but as I've told her, I wouldn't want to be back in a relationship until she was truly able to give me another chance. And I know even if she does, she's going to have trust issues. She'll want to keep tabs on me and go through my phone, e-mail, Facebook, etc. if that wasn't something I was wiling to live with, then I don't think I would try to get her back.

 

The purpose of my post was to see if anyone could help me gauge what she meant when she said she wants to be with me but can't because she still can't forgive me or trust me. Does she truly feel this way or has she already moved on and is keeping me around for other reasons. In addition I wanted to know what my chances were and what course of action would be best to regain her trust. I know its something that is much easier said than done.

[aiyam]

Have you read my post? Yes she meant that she loves you, she wants you but her mind is saying no. She can't deal yet with the thoughts that you betryaed her before, and fears that it might happen again. She is so much hurt and probably what you did keeps coming back on her mind. I am a girl, once cheated and i know how it feels.

[darkmoon]

Does she truly feel this way or has she already moved on and is keeping me around for other reasons.

 

look i'm a woman, there is something instinctive that you do not have just yet, women are instinctive, intuitive, we pay attention to our intuition, our gut, so there will be no gauge to help you

 

if i know intuitively that i'm safe with a man, it is my dealbreaker, to feel emotionally safe, the opposite of that safety is insecurity, do not blame her strong female relatives, likely that they're intuitve too, be good, you might be ok

[Cowboysfan21]

I was with my her at a friend's party this past weekend. We spent the night talking and when we went to the bar she sat on my lap. A few of us went back to her house and we made out before I left. In the following days, she's texted a few time me and we've talked on Facebook. I talked to her tonight and she said that she misses me but she "still really doesn't know what she wants". I leave for Europe in a week and will be gone for a month. She told me that she wants me to enjoy my time there and that in the meantime, I should "do what's best for me". I've told her that what's best for me is not being with anyone else and using my time in Europe to think about everything. I continue to get the feeling that when she says she doesn't know what she wants, it means that she's stringing me along. We'll be back at school together at the end of August, so how should I act in the coming weeks to make sure that she's still missing me when we're back at school?