He left his wife, now I'm not sure

May 28, 2012

I told her in an email that I wouldn't be a stepmother but she doesn't agree, saying the kids will be with him 50% so if I live with him I'll have them and have to be their stepmother but I don't see how that could work considering how long his hours are.

Like I said earlier, you're stepping into his wife's shoes. And as someone mentioned, you're getting the SAME guy she's married to. Regardless of whether she has a job or not, you're going to have their children while he works those "long hours" . . . just like she had to do.

And when you two have a little one of your own, the older ones will be able to help you while he's working.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Alice2012

May 28, 2012

Rosie, JW is absolutely correct. In the clinical sense, none of us know for fact if he is textbook narcissist. He does however display qualities of extreme selfishness. Now that's great as long as it's serving him and thereby you as you're his focus NOW. Won't be so great when he requires something/someone else as JW and others have pointed out if he doesn't address why he copes this way. My guess if you try to talk him into counseling is he'll sweet talk you into believing he doesn't need it, he's all fixed and has what he needs. It seems you are buying into that.

It seems from your beginning post you weren't sure (that's what you said) now you're over defending him most likely bc it's hard to get a dose of ice cold water of reality thrown all over whatever your hopes were. And that's understandble. But please understand this advice is all coming from a place of wanting to help you as we can see this trainwreck from an uninvested point of view. I'll still sleep great. I gain nothing from you doing one thing or another. But I hate to see women twisted in confusion. Love is not confusion Rosie, it just isn't. If you have to ask why, or what this or that means, it generally means it just isn't right. Love isn't full of self doubt and wondering.

I do ask you to ask yourself something. You mentioned sending him a naked pic while he was still living at home (which before you made it sound like he was completely done) What motivated you to do that? You don't have to answer me, this is for you. Why did you feel the need for that? Was it just "fun", were you trying to "win" him away? Why the need to do that? Because unfortunately now the wife did tell her kids, right or wrong it was her choice. Most people are not going to see that as respectful behavior. I do not mean that as a slam as it seems you recognize it was stupid in hindsight, but the fact is you will be judged harshly by some for that including his kids.

As far as the kids esp the older one goes, they don't see that you have done anything worthy of respect which is one reason they believe they can be rude to you. You need to start taking some actions worthy of respect "IF" you hope for them to ever accept you, and they still might not, but at least then you tried. You would do that as JW and MissBee and others have suggested, by stepping way back and let him deal with the end of his marriage on his own, like a big boy, without someone waiting in the wings, but he has shown for all purposes he can't without having someone else, and people like that are a lousy bet for future security and a strong solid relationship.

I sent the naked pictures as part of a bunch of other pictures. We were in love and he wanted pictures of me and I included that one and it was wrong. I knew I was enticing him and it felt good at the time, if I'm completely honest. I work out a lot and my body is in great shape and I know, from seeing pictures of his wife that she used to be gorgeous and in great shape but she lost it after the kids. I guess I knew it would bring him closer to me and I wanted that. But it was wrong, I know.

And I probably am overdefending him because I just lvoe him so much and want this to work out and it's all such a mess and there is so much anger everywhere and it's really hard to handle sometimes.

I don't know if he needs someone. I know when he met his wife she was in a relationship, he was visiting his sister (her friend) and had a ONS. They stayed in touch, she dumped her bf and eventually, a few years later, they got together. He had a gf during part of that time, when they would visit each other (they lived far away at that point). His wife told me this, actually.

So maybe he is a serial cheater. But if he is why is he so in love with me and saying I'm his life boat, his savior and he needs me and wants me and loves me and it will all work out if we just try? He met his wife when he was 20 and he says it was too early. They got together when he was 23 and they had the first kid when he was 27. He seems to have been overhwlemed by everything and just went along. I get that he must have loved her at some point but he doesnt' love her anymore. They have history but she's destroying that by saying it means nothing after finding out about his cheating, and that hurts him so much because so much of it meant a lot to him. He just doesn't want it anymore. He wants to build a new future, see what the next 40 years of his life look like. I want to be a part of that but maybe I need to back off and let him sort things out a bit and then become a part of his life.

I can't imagine his kids will hate me forever. It might take a long time but I guess in a few years, if we're still together, they'll see that he's happy and find a way to accept me. Maybe not love me but at least accept me and be nice to me.

This is all a big mess and my head hurts. I did come here, thinking that other OW would have my back so I'm sort of shocked at what I'm hearing. I need to process it all.

May 28, 2012

Rosie, is she supposed to be grateful for such things as flowers when he is sleeping with other women during their marriage? Do you understand how silly that sounds? It's like handing someone a flower in one hand while they stab you with a knife in the other, would you smile?

You think she's a monster, don't you? A horrid wife and all he wanted was to escape and be happy. That this grown man never had the strength to finally leave until his young girlfriend held his hand out of it. This is your rescuer mentality.

Yes, we are sleeping together but they are no longer a married couple except in name only. They have not had sex since she found out about me and the others. For three days they had sex and tried to work it out and then she found out he hand't ended it with me and kicked him out. They haven't touched since. He says her touch disgusts him and makes him uncomfortable. He's been very honest since she told me what happened.

I don't think she's a monster. i understand that this is very difficult for her. I saw my mother go through this with my father when he left for OW. But she has stalked me and my bf, calling and chekcing up on things at the beginning, until she realized it really waas over and he really didn't love her anymore. I understand that, although I'm still angry she told my bf, because it hurt him badly and I wanted to handle things my own way and let him down gently. He didn't deserve her calling him and telling him about the affair or the pictures or any of the other stuff. She kept calling him and he eventually went to the police. She says he never answered but whatever, she was stalking. So she's sort of crazy sometimes.

And yes, he went out of his way to make her mother's day nice and she just ignored it. He's trying to not make it ugly but she wan't appreciate anything he does. He's paying all the bills and she's not even grateful for that.

May 28, 2012

Have you asked him about these "past affairs"? I haven't read the entire thread so apologies if this has been answered.

IMO the less contact you have with STBXW the better, it will only cause havoc should the two of you make a go of it. I had a similar situation, but it was the opposite. My exH's GF (then turned W much later) kept wanting to talk to me to get info. I didn't play that game because I knew she was insanely jealous of me and my kids. I made the mistake of talking to her, trying to convince her there was nothing between him and I...it was over and done, the past. She became increasingly psychotic and I had to call the cops on them many times because she would work my ex up and they both seemed addicted to drama. Anyway they would invade my space and come to my home only to start fights...she was ALWAYS the instigator.

As far as the kids go, it could go either way. I asked DM this question awhile ago when we were "together" and he told me that if his kids disrespected me that would be it. I can only speculate on various senarios. Chances are, STBXW is coaxing the kids into disliking you and possibly their dad...if this is happening many things could result that would cause many difficulties, and later it could come down to him having to choose between you and them depending on their age. I took the darker side in my senarios based on them already disliking you...so know the opposite could take place also.

Good luck love and try not to loose you in his stuff...

He has told me that the affairs, which were mainly EA and a few ONS and one or two proper affairs, were all when they were unhappy and there was little sex or affection.

She says she doesn't care if the kids meet me and although at the beginning she was pretty ****ty about me I think now she's actually being quite calm about things, but the kids already have it in their heads that I destroyed their family. They can't see, because they're too young, that the marriage was already broken and dead when I came along. How do you tell young kids this and help them understand that I am not why their parents broke up? The kids don't know about the other affairs, other than overhearing whispered arguments, so they might have a slight idea but they think I'm the reason their parents split. I'm not. They split because they weren't happy and they weren't getting what they needed from the relationship.

May 28, 2012

And yes, he went out of his way to make her mother's day nice

But why did he go out of his way? Is he going to convince you he needs to do the same for her birthday too? What about next Mother's Day?

He's paying all the bills and she's not even grateful for that.

Why should a wife feel "grateful" for her husband paying THEIR bills?

Edited May 28, 2012 by Alice2012

May 28, 2012

Did he start cheating because the marriage went bad or did the marriage go bad because he was cheating? Obviously the wife didn't have everything she wanted if she had a cheating husband!

Of course she expects to fight for what she feels she deserves. She's been expected to move for his career and raise the family.

He may need her to get a job, but I can assure you her lawyer will tell her differently. Let him handle his divorce with her. I don't believe being his sounding board will behoove you in any way.

Well, he says he cheated because the marriage was dead and the sex was dead and there was no connection or spark between them anymore. He loves her like a sister but the sex thing died a long time ago for him. After the kids she just wasn't into it, apparently, and we all need sex, right? So he had a bunch of affairs for sex but also the emotional component was missing. She wouldn't even kiss him goodbye in the morning and when he came home in the evening she would be cooking and dealing with the kids and wouldn't even stop for a second to kiss him or hug him. He really likes that sort of things but she was just cold.

He'll be fair to her because he's a good man but he won't allow her to screw him over either.

I am just here to listen to him but try to stay out of it. It's hard sometimes because they get into these huge email arguments and he gets so upset but I'm trying to just let him do his thing.

May 28, 2012

She says she doesn't care if the kids meet me and although at the beginning she was pretty ****ty about me I think now she's actually being quite calm about things

That change of heart happened because she's doing this thing called "The 180." And it seems to be working out well for her.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Alice2012

May 28, 2012

The kids may well never accept me but they will grow up and e off on their own and he will never let them down. And we'll maybe have kids of our own and hopefully that will bring his first kids around.

It's very likely that his children will be even more resentful if their father starts a new family with you.

May 28, 2012

It doesn't matter how long his hours - if they do get a divorce, then he's going to have his kids half the time and you will have no choice but to be a parent to them. He's not going to be home most of the time and you will have to "step" in. You want him, you get his kids too. Since you don't seem to have empathy for them, I see a lot of trouble ahead because they will sense that. You should probably go to therapy with them at some point too.

Well it sounds like he's trying to win her back - and right under your nose. Using the children to get flowers and cooking for her?

If they're divorcing and he's "left" her for you and is introducing you as his girlfriend, then he shouldn't be doing ANY of that. He's still playing the role of hubby and that is very telling. He's using the kids to impress her, but she's playing hard to get. Her indifference is only going to stress him out make him want to try harder.

And he's going to fight her on everything - it prolongs the divorce. BTW, you can file for divorce and work out the details AFTER the filing. Why the delay?

I think he did the mother's day thing for the kids, because it's been rough on them. I don't think he did it for her. He didn't cook for her, they did. He went to see his mother that day. And she isn't playing hard to get. She is very, very clear that she does want the divorce and wants nothing to do with him. And he wants nothing to do with her.

As far as the divorce, he doesn't want to be taken to the cleaners. He's worked his ass off for a lot of years to get to where he is and now she wants the home, the money, the everything, but still has no job. He's paying the bills while living in a tiny apartment in a bad part of town, so to speak. She's offered to switch but that's not practical as he works so much and she's around all the time and now seems to want ot get out of being a parent or something.

May 28, 2012

I'm still angry she told my bf, because it hurt him badly and I wanted to handle things my own way and let him down gently. He didn't deserve her calling him and telling him about the affair or the pictures or any of the other stuff.

In all honesty, it was your actions that hurt your boyfriend. He felt betrayed because of the affair. I know you said that the two of you intended to back off easily but it wasn't anyone else's responsibility to ensure that once the A was discovered.

It really isn't that people here don't want you to be happy, it's that they see you being hurt. Your interpretation of things seems very skewed.

May 28, 2012

But why did he go out of his way? Is he going to convince you he needs to do the same for her birthday too? What about next Mother's Day?

Why should a wife feel "grateful" for her husband paying THEIR bills?

He did mother's day for the kids because they wanted to do something nice for their mum. Obviously they love her and are very close to her, especially after all this happened and she's leaned on them for support (which I think is wrong to do to them, by the way). He was just being a nice guy, and he is a nice guy, he always wants to do the right and nice thing.

Her birthday happened while she was away and he helped the kids buy her a ****ty gift and that was it.

You know, he's even introduced me to her very, very close friend? A gay guy who she's known for years but he's good riends with as well and he finally introduced me to this guy one night. It went ok but apparently she went ballistic when she found out. She considers this guy HER friend more than his and was really angry that he introduced me.

May 28, 2012

That change of heart happened because she's doing this thing called "The 180." And it seems to be working out well for her.

What's the 180?

May 28, 2012

and now seems to want ot get out of being a parent or something.

So you expect them to divorce, but then he continues to get out of parenting responsibilities so the two of you can continue to have "fun" life?

Sorry rosie, it doesn't work that way. You want MM, you get his kids too. If he has to work when it's his time to have the kids, you have to handle it.

You're going to be a stepmother whether you like it or not.

May 28, 2012

I'm still angry she told my bf, because it hurt him badly and I wanted to handle things my own way and let him down gently. He didn't deserve her calling him and telling him about the affair or the pictures or any of the other stuff.

In all honesty, it was your actions that hurt your boyfriend. He felt betrayed because of the affair. I know you said that the two of you intended to back off easily but it wasn't anyone else's responsibility to ensure that once the A was discovered.

It really isn't that people here don't want you to be happy, it's that they see you being hurt. Your interpretation of things seems very skewed.

I understand that she was upset and angry but why hurt my bf that way? Why drag a lot of people into things? Why spread the gossip? Why not just accept it's over and move on? She must have known he wasn't happy and that things were dying between them. Why hurt more people? Why drag others into your pain?

This is all such a mess. I really do not know what to do or how to deal with any of it. I just want to be happy with my man.

May 28, 2012

What's the 180?

In a nutshell, the 180 is when the BS gives the WS (and the OW) a huge does of reality.

May 28, 2012

Rosie, many betrayed wives were hot young childless 25 year olds at one time. I get the impression that you think you will never bear the same burden as all women who have children, that you won't "let yourself go" (*there is a difference between letting go and natural aging/scars of bearing children).

Heck, I worked out 2 hours a day when I was pregnant with my first and 1 hour+ per day after #1 was born, I worked damn hard at it, as a former athlete I knew all the right things to do.

But, no matter how hard you try, you will still get the same stretch marks, the same episiotomy scars that can take a year to heal, the same C-section scars and flap that comes with cut abdominal muscles. Don't let airbrushed magazines fool you, perhaps googling Katie Holmes in a bikini will show you that even the most beautiful young women will bear those scars.

You see, your youth and beauty is your "security" right now? "She", the wife, was once you. After all, she was good enough to marry once upon a time right?

Do you remember, as a young teenager, seeing your parent sitting at home on a Friday night and thinking "Gee, when I'm that old, I'm never going to be like that! How boring! They have a car and can get into a bar, why would you be home???"

You are doing this again. Only you are looking at her, secure in your youth and beauty, with pride knowing that you have what she doesn't - the youth and beauty and scar-less childless body. But that ain't going to last forever, no matter how hard you bury your head in the sand.

May 28, 2012

Yes, we are sleeping together but they are no longer a married couple except in name only. They have not had sex since she found out about me and the others. For three days they had sex and tried to work it out and then she found out he hand't ended it with me and kicked him out. They haven't touched since. He says her touch disgusts him and makes him uncomfortable. He's been very honest since she told me what happened.

I don't think she's a monster. i understand that this is very difficult for her. I saw my mother go through this with my father when he left for OW. But she has stalked me and my bf, calling and chekcing up on things at the beginning, until she realized it really waas over and he really didn't love her anymore. I understand that, although I'm still angry she told my bf, because it hurt him badly and I wanted to handle things my own way and let him down gently. He didn't deserve her calling him and telling him about the affair or the pictures or any of the other stuff. She kept calling him and he eventually went to the police. She says he never answered but whatever, she was stalking. So she's sort of crazy sometimes.

And yes, he went out of his way to make her mother's day nice and she just ignored it. He's trying to not make it ugly but she wan't appreciate anything he does. He's paying all the bills and she's not even grateful for that.

Seriously Rosie, you should read your own writings back to yourself but in a detached manner. It's clear as day but you're too involved in the muck to see it.

Why, seriously Rosie, why is a guy who said he would work things out with his wife then still continue things with you, why do you find that endearing.

If he loved you and you so damn much Rosie, what was the last 3 day effort with his wife? Then to say her touch made him Really Rosie, are you going to be THAT naive? What do you think he would say? Rosie a stand up guy that loved you would have rebuked the last efforts to make things work, it was over right? You said so, long over before you enterd the picture. Do you see what a lie that is?

The kids see you as the reason the parents split because like it or not you ARE the catalyst that caused it. Doesn't matter he cheated before she's now had it, is calling the shots and kicked him out because of YOU and he's now twisting it around to say he wanted it all along? Really? Then why didn't he do it?

Rosie I feel so sorry for you. That this sorry excuse for a man has you believing all his crap and what he has to offer you is love when that's the furthest thing from love the way he's behaved.

I could find 10 other red flags in what you have posted, but really why bother? You're not listening anyway you've bought your ticket and have boarded the rollercoaster and determined you're going to be different and make this work. What you wrote about the wife once upon a time being gorgeous and fit. Rosie, what is it that you are refusing to see? How can 99pct of us be seeing and saying the SAME thing to you? You have no one else to blame for your pain and role in this. It will always be your choice.

May 28, 2012

I understand that she was upset and angry but why hurt my bf that way? Why drag a lot of people into things? Why spread the gossip? Why not just accept it's over and move on? She must have known he wasn't happy and that things were dying between them. Why hurt more people? Why drag others into your pain?

This is all such a mess. I really do not know what to do or how to deal with any of it. I just want to be happy with my man.

You got a dose of your own medicine my dear. You understand that you deserve that pain? That pain is only 1/10th of what a wife with children feels.

You inserted yourself into her marriage, her bed, her life. She simply returned the favour.

Yes, I am a former OW, once upon a time. I can look back and say, "I righteously deserved every barb she threw at me". I own my past. You don't own your past yet because it hasn't happened, but you will look back one day, hopefully when you are happily married and a mother (with another man), and think.... "Oh my god. How could I have done something so selfish and cruel??"

May 28, 2012

I understand that she was upset and angry but why hurt my bf that way? Why drag a lot of people into things? Why spread the gossip? Why not just accept it's over and move on? She must have known he wasn't happy and that things were dying between them. Why hurt more people? Why drag others into your pain?

This is all such a mess. I really do not know what to do or how to deal with any of it. I just want to be happy with my man.

Most people want the truth and if his W is one of these people, then, to her, it would be doing your bf a favor and showing him respect, by telling him the truth. Also, it can help someone move on and disengage to know their partner has cheated. So, while the initial pain is greater, overall, it can help the person to know the truth. It might give them what the need to know to make different choices in the future to bring more happiness and love into their lives. My own view is that knowing the truth is a benefit even if it might not seem that way initially. Insight and understanding is helped by truth and hurt by deception.

As to your general situation, I left MM just as he was divorcing as it was then I first looked realistically at his character, at how he behaved as a life partner, how he treated the mother of his children, and decided it would be a mistake to tie my life to him. Your decision may be different but just try to make sure that you are making the right decision for you. My own experience is that with all the "mess" as you call it (the hurt, guilt, lies, drama, interaction with the BW and children, etc) can make it difficult to think clearly and calmly about what you really need in a life partner and to look realistically at this man to see if he is likely to provide that. It helps if you are open with people who know you, have them meet him, tell them your history together, and get some views from trusted people who aren't taken up in all the "mess".

May 28, 2012

So you expect them to divorce, but then he continues to get out of parenting responsibilities so the two of you can continue to have "fun" life?

Sorry rosie, it doesn't work that way. You want MM, you get his kids too. If he has to work when it's his time to have the kids, you have to handle it.

You're going to be a stepmother whether you like it or not.

No, as I told her in an email last week I am not going to be their stepmother and I never will be. I will be a friend and a support to their dad but nothing more. They already have a mother, they don't need another one.

May 28, 2012

I have seen the business card for his attorney but try to stay out of that. I don't know why they haven't filed. She gave him papers in January but I had just left my bf and I think he was unsure so didn't sign them. Also, his kids were incredibly upset so he didn't want to rock the boat. Then she saw an attorney again, told him to sign, went away for a few weeks and he had to stay with the kids in teh home and I think that made his mind up. He missed me like crazy during that time. Since then it's been a lot of arguing and them each making demands but nothing's happened and yes, that does worry me, but she is very clear (she cc's me on emails sometimes) that she wants a divorce and he is agreeing. She keeps harping on his cheating and why this means he has to support her and then she goes on about my role as a stepmother, which I think she does just to mess with me. I told her in an email that I wouldn't be a stepmother but she doesn't agree, saying the kids will be with him 50% so if I live with him I'll have them and have to be their stepmother but I don't see how that could work considering how long his hours are and the fact that she doesn't work--although she wants to start work again, but doesn't have a job yet, so he keeps paying the bills and money is tight.

Here's the thing...he says he doesn't file because he doesn't want to rock the boat. But I have to ask...what's left to rock? Everyone knows he has had multiple A's, she kicked him out...they are "working" on a D...not seeing what is left to "rock"?

The only reason one doesn't file given all you have said...they don't WANT to file at this point in time. And having a lawyer's card means squat...I have three or four as I type this. There is NO reason to NOT file. Not one.

I presume he has his own place now right?

And you WILL be a step-mother if you two get M.

He is a package deal...his kids, his family, his stbxw...all of it is YOURS now too. The way you act, behave and handle this sets the stage for the rest of your life. Choose wisely with deliberation and care. Its YOUR future too.

The thing is, even when he does something nice for her she doesn't acknowledge it. He took the kids to get her flowers for mother's day and to get food so they could cook for her and she never even said thank you. He's paying for everything and she just acts like he owes her.

IMO, he has a duty to provide those to their mom until the kids can do so on their own (have jobs to pay for these things). One does NOT earn credit for doing what one SHOULD be doing.

I do this for my xW. Its not really for her per se...I do it so MY kids foster a healthy R with their mother. Its for the R between kids and mother when the kids cannot or will not understand these actions.

As far as holidays, they did this past Christmas with the whole family. I was away with my parents, just breaking up with my bf, and eeryone wanted to do the nice thing for the kids. Apparently it went well, although she sent him a goodbye text on Christmas night. She is saying that this coming Christmas she'll take the kids away to her family and he can spend it with me. Her words were 'too soon to play happy blended families'. I'm fine with that. Another year and maybe things will settle down enough for it to be calm and normal.

You missed my point.

What if the kids REFUSE to spend time with their father if YOU are present...

He is just falling apart though. This has been an enormous strain on him, getting the strength to finally break away from the marriage. As bad as it was it was still a long time with this person so it's hard for him and he needs support and love.

He hasnt broken away from anything at this juncture. He hasn't even filed...

I think I will back off a little bit and let him sort things out. The divorce will go forward and then we'll be able to be together truly freely.

Your best course of action. And do not think for a moment "all this anger" will simply dissipate...it won't. The final signature and court's acceptance isn't the end of this...not by a long shot.

May 28, 2012

No, as I told her in an email last week I am not going to be their stepmother and I never will be. I will be a friend and a support to their dad but nothing more. They already have a mother, they don't need another one.

So what exactly does that mean? If you marry this man and his has his kids for the weekend or holidays but is off at work or meetings, are you not going to feed the kids, help them with their laundry, referee their fights, help with homework, etc etc etc???????

May 28, 2012

No, as I told her in an email last week I am not going to be their stepmother and I never will be. I will be a friend and a support to their dad but nothing more. They already have a mother, they don't need another one.

You've been implying that it's not your job to watch their kids while your man is at work. You will have no choice but to watch them when it's his turn to have the kids.

Either way you slice it, you WILL be a stepmother.

May 28, 2012

I'm still angry she told my bf, because it hurt him badly and I wanted to handle things my own way and let him down gently. He didn't deserve her calling him and telling him about the affair or the pictures or any of the other stuff.

You invaded her life,disrespected her and her kids,with the help of husband and father of course and you feel she was wrong to invade your life?

Reality is, you should suffer the consequences of your actions. your ex and everyone else should know who you really are. What is the shame if you are so in love.

It just astounds me you are so scared to be cheated on. But will do that to someone else. It's like all those bad mob movies. they will go and kill a member of someone else's family and feel no remorse. But then someone from their family is killed in retaliation and they flip out, are heartbroken. As though what they did should not have invited more evil in. It's all about Me,me and more me! Don't care about the pain anyone else feels. I am the only one that counts. That is just pure selfishness talking. hopefully life experiences ill allow you to feel more empathy and you will understand exactly why the wife reacted that way!

May 28, 2012

Rosie I mentioned this to you before. You need to stop buying into the bs excuses about why he cheated. You need to encourage him to stop telling that bs to himself too. You and he both need to learn ownership of choices. You need to put yourself in her shoes for a while instead of his. I have no doubt that he even believes it will be different with you but unless he addresses the core issues within himself, it will be the same. Wash, rinse, repeat.

There are other ways of handling issues in a marriage, he chose the most hurtful way and the most selfish way. This speaks to his character and unless he addresses it and changes it, this will be the way he handles it with you when the going gets rough. The most important thing is to not delude yourself in not seeing reality of what he is. Help him take ownership of his mistakes. Help him to stop blaming it all on her and you stop it too. Take ownership of you own also.

Another thing, yes she is angry, you will be, if he cheats on you multiple times. Empathy..........find some.

He owns that his own neediness led to some of the problems but he reaction to discovering his cheating is what sealed the deal for him. She went mental, really crazy, tehy stayed up all night fighting and she punched him and left a huge bruise on his arm that didn't go away for a week. Seriously, she went nuts.

He owns his part but she won't own hers and that's the problem between them. If she would only own that she shut him down and he needed to find comfort elsewhere. How long can a man go without sex or affection? How long should he put up with it? I know it's never perfect in a relationship but it would seem that she only gives him that when things are bad and she finds out he's cheating and then she wants to be all sexy times.

She doesn't want him, she just wants to win.

Sorry, had a bit to drink. Just feeling bad about things. I'm having dinner with him and his mother tomorrow night. She supports us. But then, she's been in my shoes with his father. his father was in a bad marriage and found his mother and they've been togehter for 40 years. It gives me hope.

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He left his wife, now I'm not sure

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