health Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 My girls parents are kinda messed. Her mom cheated and I'm hoping she wont. Parents don't determine who she is or will be? If someones parents are scumbags does it mean they will be? I think not, cause everyone makes their own decisions, yet how big a role does genetics play, in attitudes, behaviour? My family wants me to get out of this relationship cause my girls parents arn't really educated much...yet I love my girl.
average guy Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 My father beat and cheated on my mother almost every day of their marrage. He is also an alcohlic. I swore I would never do anything he did when I was young and I haven't. So the answer to your question is: No. Children do not end up like their parents If you love her you'll just have tp stand up to your parents and tell them, it's not the first time in history that has had to happen Good luck
PurpleMonkey Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 If you love this girl be with her! You can't judge one person because of someone else's mistakes...I've had many friends that have had horrible parents and they are perfectly wonderful people! This girl deserves to be loved and to know what its like to be in a healthy environment and maybe your the one to give that to her!
CurlyIam Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 Background has little in common with education. Going to the University won't stop your four years old from telling lies. It is about upbringing, about the values of that family, about the environment... My oppinion is that this aspects count! One gets the drive to make a life for itself in the family! Respect for the other, respect for tose making efforts, being taught to take the responsibility for his/her actions - all this are tought in a family (the seven years at home). Look at that when going to her house. The state of their family... I can't tell! But I think it's a stratchto say that she'll cheat because her mom cheated. This is about decisions that one makes individually. Or not (moments of weakness, etc). Anyway, to sum it up, yes, family is very important! Just not as you've depicted it!
dyermaker Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 Common sense would say that infidelity is an "independent" choice, but I tend to doubt it. Look at the amount of girls whose fathers cheat, and then they gravitate towards men who cheat. Look at the amount of children who are abused, and either become abusers themselves, or abuse their children/spouses. It's not so much genetic as it is emotional hard-wiring. Of course, everything we do is a conscious decision. But there's a huge gap of unconscious behavior memes that we aren't as in control of as we think we are.
CurlyIam Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 The past may influence the present, but it does not determine it. I acknowledge the existance of this factors ( cheating in the family, or even a gene that makes cheating appealing), but they do not play a role in our decision making process unless we allow them to. What I think one should regard at the future partner is how easily they dispose of their exes. If they tend to use the others. Their views on sex. If it's easy for them to change partners. This tells a lot about how much they usually involve in a relationship. About if and how much they value their partner and not see them as a mean of having their needs met - emotionally, sexually, socially, financially.
dyermaker Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by CurlyIam They do not play a role in our decision making process unless we allow them to. I think the decision to "allow" it is way more subtle than you're representing it to be. It changes the way you're emotionally wired. A young boy sees his mother being beaten. He loathes the abuse, he even blames himself. When he's unleashed on the world, he vows to erase the cycle of abuse. When his woman is out of line, he hits her. It's a conditioned response. Of course, he has full control over his actions, but it's not like the dichotomy is "DO YOU WANT TO BECOME YOUR FATHER (YES||NO)" The way your parents affect your development definitely affects the way you become, and it's not as straightforward as one would hope.
CurlyIam Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 Dyer, what you are saying is awful! Not all kids whose father hit thier mothers' will hit their wife if "she's out of line" and continue to do so for the rest of their life. This is about violence, about having a bad temper and about acting upon it! What I do agree though is that a kid coming from this kind of family may grow to resent the mom for staying in such a marriage, may grow to think that maybe dad's right to hit "the stupid women" and may end up with a very low oppinion on women in general. Also, the kid may understand that his momis staying with the dad for financial reasons only to be able to provide for the kids! He may grow to resent his father and all males for the impetuos necessity of showing his superiority towards the weaker sex and become impotent. He may also start thinking it's the cat's fault and become a serial cat killer! Do you see how many times I use "may"? You yourself once said that whomever makes generalizations sucks . What we both are doing here is a generalization. Because there are a lot of other factors that we do not take into account and that may have a tremendous impact on the kid's development, system of values, etc. Family is only one of them. One that matter most, I agree, but then each person it's different!
moimeme Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 Look at the amount of girls whose fathers cheat, and then they gravitate towards men who cheat. Look at the amount of children who are abused, and either become abusers themselves, or abuse their children/spouses. It's not so much genetic as it is emotional hard-wiring. Well, Dyer, now you're venturing into psychology, and those situations are way more complicated than you make them out to be - by far. So much so that it would be a huge mistake to judge anyone by their parental heritage. Children of abusers are more likely to become abusers than children of non-abusers, but that by no means means that they all, or even the majority of them, will become abusers. Same with children of alcoholics, etc. etc. And even if some childhood patterns get encoded into the brain's wiring, we now know that brains are not fixed and immutable and that they can actually physically change in response to therapy and to meds. You must keep an eye out, when courting, for signals that someone may have undesirable aspects to his or her character, but to shun someone because of that person's family background would be unfair and unreasonable. As for children becoming like their parents, I hoped a couple of guys in my life would be like their excellent dads - unfortunately, that didn't happen So those expectations can be dashed both ways!
dyermaker Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme but that by no means means that they all, or even the majority of them, will become abusers. Same with children of alcoholics, etc. etc. Didn't say that. but to shun someone because of that person's family background would be unfair and unreasonable. Didn't say that. Dyer, what you are saying is awful! Not all kids whose father hit thier mothers' will hit their wife if "she's out of line" and continue to do so for the rest of their life. Didn't say that. This is about violence, about having a bad temper and about acting upon it! My point was, all along, no generalizations neccessary, that the choice to "act upon it" is more subtle than you think, because it's not about learning by example, it's about emotional hard-wiring. The way you solve conflicts in your brain is different than someone from a more stable childhood environment.
moimeme Posted June 26, 2004 Posted June 26, 2004 because it's not about learning by example, it's about emotional hard-wiring. The way you solve conflicts in your brain is different than someone from a more stable childhood environment. It would be better if you added a few more 'perhaps'es and 'for some people's.
brashgal Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 A lot of this boils down to whether you can live with the inevitable drama. Dysfunctional families (in my experience) always have a lot of drama going on, this one is mad at that one, this one slept with another one to get back at the first one - this one drinks too much, that one created scenes - you can't invite everyone over to Thanksgiving dinner without there being a melee. My ex's family was quite dysfunctional and we lived with various dramas for 20 years. I have to say, I don't miss a lot of the hysteria and hard feelings. It's no fun walking on eggshells all the time trying to please people. Even if your partner seems totally normal and doesn't have any of his/her family's bad traits, you still have to interact with the family usually. Is it worth it?
ladyangel Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker Last edited by dyermaker on 26th June 2004 at 9:09 PM Why: i'm such a dork lol Are you looking for someone to disagree with you? ============================================== Thought of the week: June 21st was the happiest day of my life. ============================================== Why? Would you care to elaborate on that? Inquiring minds want to know. Come on, give it up.
milla Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 You can't judge her based on the actions of her mother. When parents have a serious character flaw or behaviour, what happens is that the child (most times) either becomes EXACTLY like that parent or they take the complete opposite standpoint and vehemently say "I will never do/be like that"... So my point is, you should judge her on her own merit and character. Your girlfriend probably LOATHES the idea of cheating, because her mother did it. It probably ruined her parents marriage, caused her embarrassment, who knows what else. I'm just venturing a guess that she doesn't think her mother's behaviour is the greatest. I'm sorry, but your parents attitude towards her family's lack of education is just pure snobbism. The last thing I wanted to say was... I think what you should really look at is how the family interacts with eachother, how they resolve conflict, etc... Because that will almost certainly be the way your fiance will behave, resolve conflict, etc. My husband's father is a tyrant in his household, and my husband started to act like him at times... and it was just unbearable. But you see, my husband looks up to his father, he's a very successful person, very charming, has a respectable family... So my husband consciously (going into the same career) and sub-consciously (in fights with me, he starts sounding like his dad too) emulates him. Does your fiance look up to her mother? what is her opinion of her mother and her actions. I think that is a really important question to think about.
average guy Posted June 27, 2004 Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker A young boy sees his mother being beaten. He loathes the abuse, he even blames himself. When he's unleashed on the world, he vows to erase the cycle of abuse. When his woman is out of line, he hits her." Hi Dyer, I found that comment quite offensive following my post about never having beaten (or cheated) on my wife because I had seen my father do it. A.G.
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