Bellechica Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Confused, I am sorry you're in such pain, but the motivation to change must come from her. You can't force her to change and it will drive you insane living like a PI and watching her like a hawk. She needs to be the person to set her own boundaries and inforce them. She needs to be in IC and showing you by her actions that she has changed.
Cobber9 Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 I would doubt she has told you about all her unfaithful times. She is telling you enough to clear her conscience, and to have you hold off from replaying other odd behavioral periods. She would need to do a lot of work to get your trust back. Counseling etc. Remember, your trying to save something that you now know wasn't there in the first place, you have been deceived. I have also found that the degree of your reconciliation bargaining has a large amount to do with your own self confidence and self worth. People often what to work things out, but work things out to what, what they had in the past? Remember, what you were living wasn't real, it was a charade.
bosunmate Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 If i were you i would really listen to the advice being given to you by people who have been there. If you do nothing you will be in a world of hurt much worse then you feel now. Why would you want to stay with someone who disrespects you so much, you deserve to be happy. I wish you luck because your going to need it...
Steadfast Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 Like many who have responded, I've been where you are. I understand your strong feelings of wanting the marriage and relationship to survive. I understand it's driven by your love. Speaking of that, you've mentioned several times just how strong that love is. What you can't say is how strong hers is. There are many questions, aren't there? Questions you have in your mind and heart, especially when visions of her with other men appear. In my experience, you can't love enough for two. It may be hard for you to understand (or accept) right now, but that love is betraying you. She knows how you feel and because of that, her boundaries are wide and varied. No matter what she says or does, she's comfortable and safe. No doubt, if you've expressed this deep love and devotion to a bunch of strangers on the internet, then you have emptied your heart and soul to her proving that love. There are many reasons why a spouse cheats, but one of the reasons your wife did (and will again) is because she doesn't fear losing you. This equals no respect. She has wiped her feet on you and you have taken it willingly. This is why your love has betrayed you. Be prepared to accept that her feelings may not change, even if you divorce. Like you, I lost myself in my marriage. Unlike you, my wife made no movements -insincere or otherwise- towards saving anything. I look back on that now and wonder if she didn't do me a huge favor, even though she did waver back and forth for a time. Regardless, there can be no gray area when it comes to trust and the immense effort she would have to make to repair the damage she has done. As great as that work is, it pales in comparison to what you will have to endure and experience. She should know this but I fear she does not. It seems she wants the trouble to 'go away'. But will it? For you? The visions of her cheating are your brain's way of saying this is unacceptable. Don't ignore your instincts of survival. I firmly believe that once a cheater not always a cheater. Twice a cheater is something else altogether. For me, now, as a former loving husband and one so willing to forgive, cheating is a one-strike out. As men, we should never, ever allow ourselves to suffer the abuse of a wandering wife.
BetrayedH Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with the other posters that have gone before me. It is terribly hard to accept. I went through a very difficult period of trying to reconcile with my WW (well documented here) in a situation similar to yours but I won't go through all that. What I can say is that it is very true that we, as betrayeds, go through such a shock that we commonly do whatever we can to salvage the marriage. Sadly, by the time a woman is cheating, she has already checked out of the marriage. She just didn't have the courage to leave. Once caught, the wayward goes into damage control and offers some piece of truth to get you to believe them. We're usually desperate to believe that we know the worst of it so we can process it and get the whole damn things behind us as soon as possible. You must understand that they NEVER tell you everything, especially at the beginning. It is not who they are. She has shown you who she is but we desperately want to believe our version. She is not who you thought you married. Now yo have to decide if you want to be married to THIS person. Here's the problem. As time progresses and you feel more secure and safe that you wife will not up and leave you, you start to process this more and your perspective changes. This is why you have found yourself here. In my situation, it took me quite a while to really get angry because prior to that I was so focused on how to reconcile (not IF I should reconcile). You are now realizing that this is going to take a lot out of you (particularly, being at risk of being betrayed again). And, your wife's view is also morphing. She is slowly starting to feel like she dodged that bullet. She did just enough to avoid the catastrophe that you could have created. She kept you snowed just enough. Give it some time and she will feel safe enough to start questioning this marriage again, you know, the one she didn't value enough to keep before. But will she have the courage to end it with you when she decides again that she's unhappy? Her pattern isn't to confront and resolve the conflict but to avoid it. THIS is why she needs counseling. This is all devastating stuff to accept. You're likely to think that your wife is an exception. It turns out that thinking you're the exception is the rule. Keep listening to these posters. You are getting a lot of wisdom from people with a lot of years in this. Some stuff will certainly seem off the deep end. Even with those, I encourage you to think more about it. Your wife needs to be doing much more and you need to be much more firm if you want to regain the respect from her that she needs to stay in love with you. Good luck. It is an awful journey. You may reconcile at the end of this but in order to do so, you truly need to be ready to divorce and realize that it is NOT the end of the world and quite possibly the best thing at this point. I'm sorry for what you are going thru. 1
Bellechica Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 I don't agree that once a wife has cheated that it means she has checked out of the M, but I believe that now that she has been discovered that her actions should clearly show you what she wants. There can be no "sitting on the fence". She should be in fear of losing you, not thinking "whew, I dodged a bullet". She should WANT to go to IC because she feels so broken and confused about how she ended up in such a low place in life. Confused, please tell her clearly what she needs to do so she can save the M. You should not be the spouse frightened of losing HER. She should be the one in fear of losing YOU. I cheated on my H and somehow woke up to reality that I could lose my family and destroy the one man I have truly loved for almost 20 years. If you and your W have become complacent in your M then she may have strayed thinking it was a way of ending the M. Now, it is her time to Wake Up and make a decision about what she wants. I know you love her, but she needs to be putting all your needs first, not thinking of herself. I hope she wakes up and understands all that she has to lose. 2
Steadfast Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 (edited) I don't agree that once a wife has cheated that it means she has checked out of the M.. And you wouldn't, or can't because if you did you'd be condemning yourself. That doesn't keep you from being wrong, and you are because you (and many unfaithful spouses) either don't know or don't care what marriage is. Everything, and I mean everything you can do with a spouse; buying a house, raising kids, eating, working, living together...all of it can be done with someone you're not married to. Marriage is a vow to remain sexually faithful to the person you're making the vow to. The rest is common sense. When you have sex with someone else, you nullify the vow and thus, the marriage. Or, check out of the marriage, exactly as BetrayedH said. This is true whether you realize you're doing it or not. Marriage is a vow of fidelity. Not cooking dinner, being nice, paying bills or having some place to go when you get out of work. Before you know where you're going, you must know where you are. Honesty is the best point of reference. Edited May 26, 2012 by Steadfast 4
Cobber9 Posted May 26, 2012 Posted May 26, 2012 I agree steadfast, this woman didn't have a one night stand, she has had two affairs that he knows of. She didn't have the guts to leave a marriage ff she was unhappy, instead she wanted her cake and eat it to. For me, infidelity even once in a committed exclusive relationship breaks it, once and forever. There are no second chances, I hold myself to a high standard, and any woman that is to be with me gets that as a benefit, if she can't respect that and have the same high standard of fidelity, then she doesn't deserve to be with me. I would rather be alone than be with someone I can't trust. Life is so short, why waste it. 1
Steadfast Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 For me, infidelity even once in a committed exclusive relationship breaks it, once and forever. There are no second chances I share your outlook and apply it to my own life. But while infidelity breaks the marriage vow, it doesn't necessarily have to destroy the relationship. I've explained before that my pop had an affair. He told me. I don't know how long it went on, but he developed feelings for her. What I remember best is him saying he liked how she made him feel; young and sexy. As opposed (I assume) to home life where his wife and kids were. Somehow, someway he woke up and realized what an ass he was being. He begged and they stayed together. The marriage lasted 66 years and we (or I, until he told me) didn't know anything about it. My childhood was very happy and my folks were great. Later, he gave me the 'inside' story. The reality is, what happened never went completely away, no matter how deep they tried to bury it. Late in his life the adultery haunted him, even though mom told him to 'hush up about it and it was no big deal' His biggest regret was the pain her caused her. He told me if she had done that to him, he couldn't have taken it. That guilt stayed with him 'till he passed. He died six-months after my wife of 16-years moved out because she 'needed space'. I'm glad he didn't know about it.
The Blue Knight Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Hi confused, sorry to hear about your issue. Not an easy solution to your situation. You seem to be doing all the things you can possibly do to stay on top of where your wife is at and who she might be talking too. Those are great first steps. You seem to have decided you want to fight for, and keep your marriage intact. Nothing wrong with that. Obviously counseling is a necessity because someone needs to get to the bottom of what led your wife down this road 11 years ago, and nearly a second time recently. And you'll need to make sure this is all that's occurred in the past if possible. There are many questions that need to be answered . . . Is she sexually bored? Does she find that your life together has become less than exciting? Is she biding her time because of the kids? I'm sure you've already asked yourself many similar questions over the past few weeks. You have every right to be concerned that she may cheat again given what you know, but you also have a right to pursue your wife and show her you're committed to making the marriage work and showing her how much you love her.
Steadfast Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 You have every right to be concerned that she may cheat again given what you know, but you also have a right to pursue your wife and show her you're committed to making the marriage work and showing her how much you love her. I generally like and agree with this poster's responses, but not this time. When it comes to attraction, maturity and commitment, "rights" have little or nothing to do with it. Having the 'right' to a faithful spouse doesn't mean you'll have one. This is true in nearly all aspects of life. The only non-biased right we own is free will. That's one right we can command and keep. If this poster is being honest, there's little he can do to prove his love over and above what he's already displayed. If anything, he needs to curtail his loving and kindness and his wife needs to increase hers. He's being rolled. 1
nofool4u Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Another thing that worries is that since she came clean she (in the beginning) told me to go out have an affair or a threesome and for me to pick the girl, anything so i could get back at her. This tells me that she is still cheating or is looking for an excuse to cheat. You think if you went out and had an affair, and it was considered even, that she'd sit there and accept that? Nah, she'd be out getting more strange. That worries me cause it makes me see just how she values the marriage. Exactly. She doesn't value the marriage. And sorry, but this is the way I see it, but she isn't done cheating. She will cheat again if given the opportunity. I think you have to at least consider divorcing her, or severely hold her feet to the fire and make sure she knows that she will be going through a divorce if there is one suspicious thing she does from here on that a wife shouldn't be doing. Because if she thinks you are a pushover, she'll know the consequences to cheating again more than likely won't be all that bad. 1
goldengirl11 Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) I think you should seperate from your wife. I also was quite disgusted that she suggested you had an affair or a threesome for example. I remember an ex said that to me when he cheated on me twice with his then ex - soon after I had lost my virginity to him too, which made me feel that I couldn't have meant as much to him, as otherwise he probably would've been too jealous. Edited May 31, 2012 by goldengirl11
2sunny Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 Totally, 100% agree with him being rolled. The cheater doesn't deserve to be coddled. She should be bending over backwards right now without expecting anything in return. The "His Needs, Her Needs" way of dealing with a cheater will backfire. You DON'T "pursue" and kiss the cheater's azz with "love and kindness." It creates even more of a monster because the cheater KNOWS the BS is afraid the cheater is going to leave and will milk it - especially a cheater like the OP's. We see it ALL the time, particularly with male betrayed spouses desperate to make sure their wives don't cheat again. No amount of love, kindness and committment will keep a woman like this one from cheating again. She needs therapy AND a genuine desire to do the necessary WORK to make the OP feel secure . . . not the other way around. I'm quite sure the OP's cheater will survive without "pursuit" and "love and kindness" for a little while. She's a big girl. He doesn't need to show how committed he is to the marriage right now - SHE should be showing him. He doesn't need to show her how much he loves her right now, SHE has to show him. And her generous offer of a threesome isn't quite worthy of "love, kindness and commitment" in my opinion. I agree! No need to reward her bad behavior by acting as if it's all ok! 2
2sunny Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 Hi confused, sorry to hear about your issue. Not an easy solution to your situation. You seem to be doing all the things you can possibly do to stay on top of where your wife is at and who she might be talking too. Those are great first steps. You seem to have decided you want to fight for, and keep your marriage intact. Nothing wrong with that. Obviously counseling is a necessity because someone needs to get to the bottom of what led your wife down this road 11 years ago, and nearly a second time recently. And you'll need to make sure this is all that's occurred in the past if possible. There are many questions that need to be answered . . . Is she sexually bored? Does she find that your life together has become less than exciting? Is she biding her time because of the kids? I'm sure you've already asked yourself many similar questions over the past few weeks. You have every right to be concerned that she may cheat again given what you know, but you also have a right to pursue your wife and show her you're committed to making the marriage work and showing her how much you love her. Until HER behavior changes he has no reason to stayin the M To encourage him to police her every word and move seems absurd, to me... It's not HIS job to keep track of his wife so she won't cheat - THAT IS ON HER CONSCIENCE!!! He only needs robe sure he's honoring himself - and that includes not putting up with her unacceptable behavior. If she's not DOING the work to REPAIR the damage SHE CAUSED - there's no reason forHIMto make the effort!
nofool4u Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 But here's the part where I’m trying to cope, I am scared to death that shewill do it again. Maybe 5, 10 or 15 years from now she may fall back to thatsame place that she was in that made her do this before. How do I get past thatand how to I get to where I can trust her again? Oh, she'll do it again. She has the desire to pleasure herself with another man. That aint going to go away. Even if she doesn't do this again, she will crave it. She might simply refrain to keep from losing her comfortable situation. So question is, are you willing to be married to a woman that has the desire to gratify herself one way or another with other men?
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