How Much of Love Is Just Luck?

[verhrzn]

IQ is quite flexible in high school. And a test is only true for a particular moment. You grow and develop as a person.

 

I honestly would be surprised if your IQ would be in the "average" band. You would not write as well as you do if that were the case. Honestly. You are much smarter than you give yourself credit for.

 

... Not according to my grades, my job, or pretty much every other indicator of intelligence.

 

Is this like the blind date thing, where it was somehow offensive that I knew a sporty hot guy wouldn't be into me? Is it really so bad to admit that I possess average-to-below intelligence?

 

You are very good at articulating yourself, and I don't think your aggression is actually a problem - in fact I think you should embrace it!

 

Embrace it in what way?

[d'Arthez]

... Not according to my grades, my job, or pretty much every other indicator of intelligence.

GPA is a poor predictor of intelligence. And jobs are not a reliable indicator of intelligence either. You are much smarter than you give yourself credit for. If you became a mailwoman, would your intelligence suddenly drop? Of course not.

 

It is not bad to admit you have a flaw. But it is bad to think you have a flaw, when you don't have it.

[ThaWholigan]

... Not according to my grades, my job, or pretty much every other indicator of intelligence.

 

Is this like the blind date thing, where it was somehow offensive that I knew a sporty hot guy wouldn't be into me? Is it really so bad to admit that I possess average-to-below intelligence?

 

 

 

Embrace it in what way?

You seem to fight it, or see it as something that makes you bad, when actually it could be a defining feature if you were able to be more comfortable with it a lot more. You mention that you're not competitive - that just tells me you don't like losing. I used to hate competing with people as there were always people better than me at stuff. I loved football (soccer), but I was so bad at it, and I hated making mistakes and being made fun of. Until one day, my competitiveness was switched on and I absolutely did not stop playing until I was at least decent at it. I got a lot of respect after that because I kept playing even though I was crap and people gave me stick.

 

I think you're probably more competitive than you realize and maybe you should come to terms with that. I could be wrong, but it's something to think about. The attributes that you DO have currently. Maybe not look at them as bad, but good??

[zengirl]

That still sort of sounds like "Shut up and take it." Like, let them correct me, let them be better than me (even when they're not), let them lord over me.

 

Whoa -- those are 3 very different things. Yes, you can let people correct you. If their corrections are actually correct, even if nitpicky, like the Zelda story, then what more is there to say? Just let it go. If their corrections are incorrect, you can choose how important correct information is. For instance, sometimes Hubby says something factually wrong that he REALLY thinks is right. I could choose to look it up and mildly correct him OR be all "In Your Face That's Wrong" about it, or I could just let it go --- if it's going to cost us money or be an important factor in a major decisions, I'm going to mildly correct him or maybe even look it up, depending on the issue at hand. If it doesn't matter --- which most facts that come up in conversation don't --- I may just let it go. What do I care if he thinks something mildly incorrect that has no impact? Plenty of nerds will correct everything, and that's fine. As long as they take as much as they give, I accept it. But it isn't my style, and that's why they don't do that to me as often.

 

HOWEVER, correcting someone is not the same as saying you're better than them or "lording" over them, nor are those 2 things the same. Correcting is just correcting and has no malice or power to it whatsoever. Someone who tries to play power plays by how much they know sounds tedious --- I don't engage in that stuff, though many male nerds do as Elswyth says. I've found the easy way out of such kinds of conversations is NOT to put any ego into conversations and not to care who corrects whom. What is there to Lord over me? Nothing. Someone only has something to Lord over you if you believe they do --- no competition or argument necessary. That's just plain fact.

 

As for "better" --- unless we're talking about some concrete, measurable task, I don't really believe you can judge who is "better" anyway. And I suggest never sticking your identity on a task.

 

If I'm not smart/strong/better/right, then what the heck am I? What am I made of? What do you base your identity off of? You mentioned before that I base my identity off hobbies and now, apparently, ego... well if you don't base your identity off of that, what exactly is left?

 

Well, you know I'm into Zen, so you're not going to like my answer.

 

My identity: I am. Honestly, who I am shifts moment to moment, as I learn and accumulate what I'd call karma but anyone could call life experience and so forth. On an egoistic level, I have a name and traits and looks and so forth, and I can recognize them, but they aren't ME. They are just my form. When I say ego, I don't mean you're "egotistical" per se. I mean you're acting purely with ego. We all have to act with ego sometimes, or else life would have no form. However, when you rely on your ego and lead with your ego, you are unhappy, you are uncertain, you feel scarcity, and you feel unfulfilled (general you). The things you do, think, look like, etc, are all just forms. They aren't what's really important -- but they are practical and help you in the practical world.

 

Taking away the spirituality, I can say that honestly being able to let things roll off your back would help you immensely. You take everything that happens and is said far too seriously. Why not spend your intensity in a direction that makes you and other people happy?

 

If I have no defining qualities (because I have no ego), and I don't base my identity off of hobbies (like writing or nerddom of whatever), then... I'm just a big insipid blob.

 

Well, the essential, ever-changing you is not a big insipid blob (those are form words too). It is simply life force and power, quite intense in all of us if you ask me, though often diluted by our form. Nor am I suggesting you do absolutely NOTHING in the world of ego. I'm just suggesting you find some inner peace that helps balance it.

 

So they see something bothers me, and thus automatically go for the throat?? Gee, that makes dating sound like just a ton of fun. I guess the world really is filled with a**holes.

 

Have you not noticed, as Elswyth says, that such men do this to each other too? If you want to be seen differently than their friends, you have to ACT differently. Additionally: Yes, people in life unconsciously sense your weaknesses and unconsciously exploit them; they're not being jerks so much as just acting on basic human nature. This is how people and relationships help us grow and see our own subconscious issues.

 

Yeah, apparently a bad personality, since I have too much ego and aggression or something.

 

There is no such thing as a "bad" personality, but there are effective and ineffective behaviors. If you find your behaviors aren't producing the effect you want, why wouldn't you change them?

 

Pretty much, yes. Isn't that the definition of losing... you giving up and succeeding the point? I guess you could also come to a draw, the only "agree to disagree," but that means you just wasted X hours trying to convince each other only to come right back to square one.

 

Well, my definition of winning is avoiding the argument altogether.

 

We define ourselves based on other people. If everyone is smart, then no one is smart, right? The definition of "smart" ceases to exist, because smart is now average (everyone possesses the quality, thus is has no need for definition.) If everyone gets an "A" in the class, then getting an A is no longer a significant marker of anything, because everyone has that.

 

That's a VERY competitive mindset, fwiw. I wouldn't say I really agree either. I *could* define myself that way, but I rarely do.

 

Certainly, I am smart -- I could cite test scores to prove it if I wished, not that such tests really prove intelligence -- they just prove scholastic aptitude. And I'm accomplished. And I could list those things if I wanted, but. . . why? The only thing I'm really proud of is my ability to be happy. I think a happy idiot has more value than the most brilliant person living in misery. I'm not saying my value system SHOULD be yours, but I am saying consider a new value system and belief system that could make you happier and more successful. You can build any old one you want! You keep forcing yourself to operate at one where you feel inadequate and value things you don't even believe you have! Why do that? Don't you see how doing such a thing would lead you to be unhappy and aggressive and negative and competitive where you wouldn't need to be if you picked beliefs that made you happy?

[verhrzn]

Taking away the spirituality, I can say that honestly being able to let things roll off your back would help you immensely. You take everything that happens and is said far too seriously. Why not spend your intensity in a direction that makes you and other people happy?

 

What direction is that, exactly?

 

(And yes, I didn't like the Zen stuff. I know you enjoy it, and we've discussed it before and neither is changing the other's mind, so I'll just leave that alone.)

 

Have you not noticed, as Elswyth says, that such men do this to each other too? If you want to be seen differently than their friends, you have to ACT differently. Additionally: Yes, people in life unconsciously sense your weaknesses and unconsciously exploit them; they're not being jerks so much as just acting on basic human nature. This is how people and relationships help us grow and see our own subconscious issues.

 

Then I guess I just found further explanations for why I'm a misanthrope. I keep hoping that people are better are sensing weaknesses and exploiting them, but I guess not.

 

I guess that's also why I should really get to the "fvk dating" stage a lot faster. Because why the heck would I want to associate with people whose subconscious seems so-very-eager to drive me into the ground?

 

Certainly, I am smart -- I could cite test scores to prove it if I wished, not that such tests really prove intelligence -- they just prove scholastic aptitude. And I'm accomplished. And I could list those things if I wanted, but. . . why? The only thing I'm really proud of is my ability to be happy. I think a happy idiot has more value than the most brilliant person living in misery. I'm not saying my value system SHOULD be yours, but I am saying consider a new value system and belief system that could make you happier and more successful. You can build any old one you want! You keep forcing yourself to operate at one where you feel inadequate and value things you don't even believe you have! Why do that? Don't you see how doing such a thing would lead you to be unhappy and aggressive and negative and competitive where you wouldn't need to be if you picked beliefs that made you happy?

 

How about if you couldn't list any things? If no matter the value system, you failed. Then what? What belief system could I possibly pick that could make me happy? I am inadequate at everything.

 

Are you really claiming you could be happy if you were single, alone, had no money, no friends, were stupid, ugly, and had no redeeming qualities what so ever? If yes, then congratulations, you're either a saint or a liar.

 

For me, personally, there is no belief system on Earth that could make me happy, because in every belief system, I am still useless!

[oaks]

Yeah, apparently a bad personality, since I have too much ego and aggression or something pessimism.

 

I think I've fixed that for you.

[verhrzn]

I think I've fixed that for you.

 

Gee, thanks. Ego, aggression, pessimism, looks... I'm just the entire package for what all men hate. I guess I could build my belief system around that!

[oaks]

Gee, thanks. Ego, aggression, pessimism, looks... I'm just the entire package for what all men hate. I guess I could build my belief system around that!

 

Sorry, V. Perhaps that was a little harsh... but you're a glass-half-empty girl. That's a shame, because a strong positive attitude is really attractive.

 

edited to add: and I didn't say anything about your looks, but you adding that to the list from what I previously quoted rather demonstrates my point. Learn to love yourself, then perhaps others will.

Edited May 29, 2012 by oaks

[verhrzn]

Sorry, V. Perhaps that was a little harsh... but you're a glass-half-empty girl. That's a shame, because a strong positive attitude is really attractive.

 

edited to add: and I didn't say anything about your looks, but you adding that to the list from what I previously quoted rather demonstrates my point. Learn to love yourself, then perhaps others will.

 

Why bother loving myself? I live in a world that hates who I am, filled with people who want to do nothing but kick me when I'm down, as evidenced, and then blame me for their behavior.

 

My ex-friend showed hardly the slightest interest in dating me, and is now going around telling people I cheated. My boss hasn't noticed me coming in an hour early to do extra work (and I'm salary, not hourly) for over a month now. Hell, even posters on this board, which is supposedly meant to help people, can't resist telling me all the ways I suck while yelling at me for not being positive.

 

Exactly what is there to be glass-half-full about? At some point, optimism just starts looking like an early onset of insanity, imagining things that aren't there.

[ScreamingTrees]

Why bother loving myself? I live in a world that hates who I am, filled with people who want to do nothing but kick me when I'm down, as evidenced, and then blame me for their behavior.

 

My ex-friend showed hardly the slightest interest in dating me, and is now going around telling people I cheated. My boss hasn't noticed me coming in an hour early to do extra work (and I'm salary, not hourly) for over a month now. Hell, even posters on this board, which is supposedly meant to help people, can't resist telling me all the ways I suck while yelling at me for not being positive.

 

Exactly what is there to be glass-half-full about? At some point, optimism just starts looking like an early onset of insanity, imagining things that aren't there.

 

People suck in general, if you ask me. Your ex-friend sounds like an *******. Your boss sounds like an inconsiderate douche. Lots of posters on this board are screwed up in the head and hate a whole gender.. What can you do? If you didn't CARE about yourself, you wouldn't be here venting about how frustrated you are.

 

It probably helps to vent, which is perfectly normal and healthy, but merely venting and hiding away will ultimately solve nothing.. But I guess it comes back around full-circle to the fact that you feel like you've tried everything and you just attract negativity. I wish I knew you in person, I think I could see what the real problem was whether you wanted to hear it or not..

 

I wish I had something useful to say, but I really don't know what the problem is. People have seen your photo and said you were cute, so I just don't know how you're so unlucky that you're surrounded by such heartless, jealous low lives and can't find ONE person who'd be interested in you.

[oaks]

Why bother loving myself? I live in a world that hates who I am,

 

Nah. Mostly the world is indifferent to all of us. It certainly hasn't singled you out for special hatred. This might not help, but, in the big picture, the world doesn't give a sh.t about you.

 

Exactly what is there to be glass-half-full about?

 

Well, you don't have to change your view about how much stuff is in the glass, so it isn't hard to do, but it's a more attractive position to take. Of course, I already explained that. I'll use different words: being an optimist is damn hot. If that's not a reason to see the glass differently, when you're struggling to find some form of self improvement, then I don't know what is.

[d'Arthez]

Why bother loving myself?

The more you really love yourself, the happier you are. I know it sounds corny, but it is true. Love yourself for being V. No one else is V. but you. It is difficult to get there. Does not mean that you have to give up your edge, or interest or turn yourself into a clone.

 

It means accepting your flaws and the good things about you, such as your dreams, your interests and things you like to do. At the moment you find it easy to accept your flaws, but you find it next to impossible to accept your virtues. You talk yourself down constantly - and that is what is really giving you a lot of problems.

 

That is exactly why you struggle with the competitive guys, because they make you feel bad about yourself, even more than you do. If I may revisit your list of criteria:

 

1 -enjoys reading (intellectual and curious about learning)

2 -likes documentaries and quirky, humorous movies (silly sense of humor)

3 -enjoys some physical activity but isn't slavishly devoted to it (so, healthy and active but not "fit")

4 -has similar interests to me

5 -has a circle of friends he is devoted to (loyal, socially mature)

6 -open minded sexually/at least somewhat kinky

7 -isn't competitive with me.

 

1,2,3, 5 & 7. Not a problem. None of these requirements clash with your own psychological needs and well-being, but rather augment it (#3 is a bit more neutral). #7 is absolutely mandatory for you at the moment.

4, clashes with you somewhat insofar people who have similar interests to you tend to be quite competitive about it. That is why you probably should not look for an uber-geek, but more for a reserved intellectual type of guy, who shares a few interests with you.

6, will be a bit tricky. They are certainly out there, but it is not improbable that this one is the hardest criterion to meet for you at the moment.

 

If you were to get in a relationship now, you absolutely need the guy to be laid-back - someone who can argue his position, fight fairly, but does not make you feel like cr*p. Someone who can accept your flaws but at the same time can appreciate the good things about you.

[zengirl]

What direction is that, exactly?

 

Well, I don't know. You have to find something that does for you what Zen did for me --- it gave me a positive direction to go in. You lack a positive direction for your beliefs to go. I don't think the answer for that direction HAS to be spiritual; mine was, but your answer could be different. Everyone's will be. I do think a lot of what people identify as "luck" is simply the world reaction to the direction and beliefs you have chosen.

 

Then I guess I just found further explanations for why I'm a misanthrope. I keep hoping that people are better are sensing weaknesses and exploiting them, but I guess not.

 

I mean, SOME people do sense weakness and exploit it, but strangers in basic conversations are generally not going to do that. If you're a misanthrope, it's because you choose to be. You seem to feel you have little choice in life, but you have SO many choices. To go with our gaming metaphor earlier: Results are absolutely impacted by your play style. Why is that a bad thing?

 

I fundamentally don't understand why people --- you are far from the only one on LS that clings to behaviors that they don't like the effects of --- seek to define themselves by behaviors, especially behaviors that are hindering them from their goals. Why wouldn't you want to choose the behaviors that are most likely to get you to the goal and make you happy?

 

The whole "It's just who I am" mindset has never made sense to me, as people are always changing and hopefully growing. Isn't that the point of life? And I'm not saying you need to change in the ways I or anyone else has outlined per se --- however, clinging rigidly to the idea that it's luck or other people that are getting you down is never going to do you any good. It's crucial to look at behaviors and attitudes that can be changed to maximize success if success isn't naturally coming. There can be any number of configurations, so there may be other changes I'd never think of instead of the kind of suggestions I can make.

 

I guess that's also why I should really get to the "fvk dating" stage a lot faster. Because why the heck would I want to associate with people whose subconscious seems so-very-eager to drive me into the ground?

 

Perhaps the point isn't to drive you into the ground --- it's to help you grow, learn life lessons, evolve, and become happier as a result.

 

How about if you couldn't list any things? If no matter the value system, you failed. Then what? What belief system could I possibly pick that could make me happy? I am inadequate at everything.

 

How about a belief system where no one COULD be inadequate?

 

That's an option you know --- a belief system where there is little or no competition. For instance, you define yourself as ugly and so forth based on an idea of competition that I don't engage in at the moment. I have engaged in competitive ideas, and they didn't make me happy. So, I did away with such beliefs. And many other beliefs, TBH.

 

Anyway, I think your feelings of inadequacy and your aggression are tied together and all tied up into your feelings of competition, which you say you hate but actively engage in --- as TW says, that just tells me that you hate to lose. The first step is to choose not to feel inadequate, but you somehow don't believe that we choose what to believe or how to feel or how to act, etc. When you realize the buffet of choices available to you in life, you'll see what I mean about making your own luck.