How Much of Love Is Just Luck?

[wordrock]

I hear sometimes that I should join a sports league to meet guys, but I don't see how that would be an advantage if 1) I don't like sporty guys and 2) I am AWFUL at sports. I am the most uncoordinated, clumsy, pouty player you will ever see in team events. I do fine in individual sports, like tennis or martial arts, but stick me in a team event and I go completely to pieces.

 

I mean... what sporty guy is gonna be like "Oh man, this girl sucks at the sport I love-I am totally gonna ask her out!"

 

1) Many guys who don't look sporty play sports. I play soccer and KICKBALL. A number of the guys who play are overweight and/or don't dress in work out clothes. I've played with dudes with dreds and guys in jeans even.

 

2) Everyone on my kickball team is awful. We drink and play a game designed for kids. We won 1 game last season and 2 the season before.

 

A guy isn't going to care if you're not good at sports... they're going to care that they'll have a way to talk to you about something you share in common. The girl I'm seeing right now plays on my coed soccer team occasionally. She's not very good at all... do I care? No! I love it when she comes to play.

[LittlePrince]

I've been wondering for a while if finding love maybe just comes down to a matter of luck. I think a lot of sayings that people tell singles support this: like how if you just stop looking, love will suddenly find you. Doesn't that idea rest on supposing that love has very little to do with what you're doing, and is just a matter of circumstance and "happening"?

 

Obviously there are ways you can increase your luck: if I buy 50 lottery tickets, statistically speaking, I have a better chance than if I had bought 1, but that still doesn't necessarily mean I will win the lottery with either.

 

I think a philosophy that finding love is a matter of luck could help a lot of people stop blaming themselves, and feeling guilty. I often feel guilty and ashamed that I am perpetually single... what is wrong with me that I can't manage something as fundamental as a romantic relationship, which so, so many people manage to have? But if it's luck, well, then, there's nothing wrong with me, I'm just unlucky.

 

What do you guys think? Is finding love like winning the lottery... a matter of chance?

It is unlikely you will find a great connection and at most good or so-so connections you'll have to cope with. When a person does find one of the few great connections out there for them they start to think of themselves as a love guru but it was all the product of a coinciding event. It wasn't luck. Causes coalesce into effects, effects splinter, the effects subside, and these effects coalesce into new effects. That you were there at one of these moments as one becomes the next isn't a matter of being blessed with good fortune or cosmic planning. Many of these change overs are not considered significant or attached with any greater meaning. They happened and they pass. Love happens and it passes.

[lino]

I think luck does play a significant part. I always felt very unlucky in romance until I met my girl.

 

I guess it's like in other areas of life... luck favours some more than others.

 

Two of my good friends have had a steady stream of genuine girlfriends since their mid teens and are both married now.

I had several small 'relationships ' and am just now approaching the 2 year mark of my first real one.

 

Both of those friends always did better with women than me,even if they didn't treat some of them very well.

I had more fortune in other areas... just works that way I guess.

[LittlePrince]

I think luck does play a significant part. I always felt very unlucky in romance until I met my girl.

 

I guess it's like in other areas of life... luck favours some more than others.

 

Two of my good friends have had a steady stream of genuine girlfriends since their mid teens and are both married now.

I had several small 'relationships ' and am just now approaching the 2 year mark of my first real one.

 

Both of those friends always did better with women than me,even if they didn't treat some of them very well.

I had more fortune in other areas... just works that way I guess.

and that's why you are here on LS due to all of that luck. We should rename ourselves Lucky Shack since we are overflowing with so many lucky people.

[lino]

and that's why you are here on LS due to all of that luck. We should rename ourselves Lucky Shack since we are overflowing with so many lucky people.

 

Well I'm much better placed now than when I first joined this messageboard, in terms of romance.

My luck which I was referring to wasn't to do with romance at all, I've been largely unlucky in that area for most of my life, as I wrote in my previous post.

[Brit]

and that's why you are here on LS due to all of that luck. We should rename ourselves Lucky Shack since we are overflowing with so many lucky people.

 

Ha ha, this is quite funny, such luck in finding some humour in LP.

[zengirl]

Makes more sense than not. I think I am rather masculine in a lot of ways, and I think I tend to Alpha Nerd guys. That's very frustrating though... that's just who I am. I am not a feminine person. I am a person who argues, and who does have a forceful personality. So, I guess I just have to say that because I'm not a feminine woman, I am doomed to single hood?

 

First of all, I think you think there is only ONE way to be feminine, and that's simply not true. (Nor is being forceful/assertive/etc necessarily related to being unfeminine. So, really, those two issues are separate things.) There are many ways to be feminine and many things men typically seek out in women.

 

I don't think you should try to pretend to be other than you are, but I do think that everyone needs to moderate their behavior and temperament to optimize success. That's part of "leveling up" in life, to carry on the video game metaphor from earlier. Many video game characters increase their "speech" or "charisma" and people can too, absolutely! You can choose to do so in fake way, but that rarely works; it works much better when done authentically.

 

As Elswyth says, there is a difference between fundamentally 'changing your whole personality' and 'becoming less argumentative.' To me, being argumentative is not a personality trait; it's a behavior. You can funnel personality traits, like being feisty or powerful, towards it, but you can also funnel them in OTHER, more productive ways.

 

This is true' date=' but I wonder that V. should want herself to "lose her edge". Obviously for her, behaving as forcefully as she does [b']is[/b] natural to her. Intensity is what defines her. She has a very strong sense of identity, and I think she has always had - just think about her school going years. I am not sure how happy she could be if she "toned it down".

 

You can re-direct intensity. I am certainly an intense person. However, when interacting with people I'd like to befriend or date, I don't argue or act aggressive. I do act assertive, and I can be fairly intense.

 

Some people are turned away by sheer intensity, sure, but many people are drawn to it. However, if it's expressed in an angry or argumentative way, it is often repellent. I have seen V be intense without being argumentative, so I think it'd be possible for her as well if she could channel her energy in a new direction. That's not the same as attempting to repress or dissolve the energy.

 

And it seems highly doubtful this would result in more success in her love-life; being more agreeable just does not cut it to form and maintain a relationship.

 

I think being more agreeable gets you pretty far socially. I'm not speaking of being bland or personality-free. I'm speaking of being able to express your personality and opinions in a non-confrontational way. I feel like sometimes V is overly aggressive for the same reason many people are --- they're uncomfortable. When you find comfort socially, you can be assertive and diplomatic at the same time. I've seen V do that, but it just depends how she feels in the moment. Most aggression and arguing comes from a negative, uncomfortable place.

 

I actually don't think V has as strong a sense of identity as she needs. She clings to smaller things, like interests and behaviors, to define her personality. I would say that none of those really define identity at all and identity is something deeper and more meaningful that she is still struggling to grasp. I've seen her get closer to it on this site. I've seen this with a lot of people --- I think aggression often comes from a lack of deeper identity.

[Teknoe]

I work at a tech company. Nearly all the guys are engaged or married (one of my coworkers is divorced and single.) My usual day is work, gym, hobbies at home, but I do outside activities like dance, go to my company's softball games, go to Magic tournaments. I spend a lot of time at the library/book store. I do martial arts once or twice a month, but all the guys in my class are engaged/married as well.

 

Hmm, sounds like you don't meet a lot of single guys with this lifestyle.

 

How is your friendship circle -- how much time are you spending with friends throughout a week? Do you phone, chat online or see them in person?

 

Friends are one of the better ways to meet a significant other, as you expand your network dramatically by having good friends.

 

Also, just a question: Is there any chance you may enjoy your freedom (of being single) a little too much?

 

I think SOME people who stay single for an extended period of time isn't so much bad luck or "well, everyone else is taken" -- it's, sometimes, a matter of them simply being far too content living the single life, being able to do whatever one wishes whenever they want.

 

I think *I* fall in that category. Part of me wants a GF but to be honest, it's a lot of work. And right now, I'm enjoying my freedom a little too much, haha. Hey, just being honest here Therefore, I don't take care of myself as I probably should. And when you don't take care of yourself physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually, it's harder for others to be attracted to you.

 

Basically, you subconsciously desire (whether a part of you or a large part) to remain single because it's comfortable and it's all you've known to X amount of years now. Anyway, just some food for thought!

[verhrzn]

^^^ This right here is your problem. Look! LOOK!!! All these guys who are "not open for business" are actually totally normal and open for business. What are you waiting for, a guy who's been single for a year and waiting for you, and hasn't been sleeping with anyone or enjoying it? Nobody's life is in standstill waiting for you to snatch them up. It appears that you write off the men around you prematurely.

 

Well they're not open for business because THEY don't want to be open for business. The recently-single/divorced guys I know are just too vulnerable and still hurting over their break-up to look to jump into another serious relationships. And the players don't WANT a relationship... why should they, they're getting tons of fun sex with interesting women. I'm not writing off men; they are making these decisions themselves, and I am respecting their decisions.

 

 

 

That's surprising, but lets grant for a moment that guys only go to bookstores with girls, say because guys don't actually like to read and only follow girls into bookstores. There are a million places where you are guaranteed to find multitudes of men who are dying to meet you. Go on yelp, right now, and look for bars nearby --- casual watering holes where you can grab a bite and a drink, but not necessarily get trashed. Go there, either by yourself or with one friend and grab a bite and/or a drink at the bar. I will bet you my left nut that you will find many more men than women at all these places, and unless you are at some kind of biker bar many of them will be single, datable, and within your age range.

 

You don't like bars? OK then go to a coffee shop in the vicinity of a university. Any decent university will do. You will find graduate students there. Male graduate students are the ideal demographic for you: they are in an environment with few women (gradschool), they are nerdy and successful, and have a lot of work that they often do in coffee shops. Talk to one of them and you will make his day.

 

You don't like coffee shops? OK, then go on online dating. OKcupid is the best, but you probably already knew that. In fact, you are probably already on it. If you are, how many messages do you get per week? I bet you that you would get at least a couple that you could translate into dates with reasonably eligible men. So, whats the problem? I know, you will complain that none of those guys are "open for business," whatever that illusionary notion in your head may be... sigh...

 

I do the coffee shops and "pubs" too, and same situation.... only guys that are present are either with girls, or with big groups of guys having a "bro day."

 

Seriously, there just aren't single men around.

 

I have done both OKCupid and Match, and I get maybe a message a month, usually from someone WAY outside my age range or completely unsuitable (nothing in common, awful spelling, low match percentage, they have children, etc.) I send out 2-3 messages per week, and never get a response.

[Teknoe]

How is your friendship circle -- how much time are you spending with friends throughout a week? Do you phone, chat online or see them in person?

 

Friends are one of the better ways to meet a significant other, as you expand your network dramatically by having good friends.

 

 

To be specific, you rarely hook up with friends, but the benefit comes in the form of them INTRODUCING you to their single friend(s). But you have to have a certain relationship with that friend. Acquaintance often won't cut it, as they would not recommend one of their good friends to someone they only know on the surface. The more they know you the more it's like "OH yeah, V is such a good woman. Oh! Ben is a good guy, I'll introduce them..." ya know what I mean?

[d'Arthez]

I am only putting my comments here so that V. can see for herself what is going on in her life. I have no intention to start an argument, since that would be completely pointless for V.

 

I actually don't think V has as strong a sense of identity as she needs. She clings to smaller things, like interests and behaviors, to define her personality

This may be true and this may not be true. I have not read 2000+ posts by her, and I have been back on these forums only for about 3 weeks now. To me (based on the limited sample I have seen) her discussion of interests and behaviors is mostly a result of the way people respond towards her, and the suggestions people make to her, to address her problems.

 

To me it comes across that many of the things she does go against her identity, but she does them in the hope of achieving an outcome she strongly desires.

 

I think aggression often comes from a lack of deeper identity.

I would think however that if V. was acting in an aggressive manner towards people, that some people would have pointed it out to her. It certainly would not explain the fact that if she plays a more passive part (in social settings or online) why she would be struggling for attention.

 

Going by my experiences in real life: I would calmly state my points in discussions, not in an aggressive manner, not even raise my voice (though I am soft-spoken), and people still got the idea that I was very intense. Which seems quite bizarre, since in my daily life I am laid back, I happily let others take the lead in social situations. Note, that I have the "advantage" of being male, and thus that being intense is not seen as much as a flaw than if I were female.

[verhrzn]

To be specific, you rarely hook up with friends, but the benefit comes in the form of them INTRODUCING you to their single friend(s). But you have to have a certain relationship with that friend. Acquaintance often won't cut it, as they would not recommend one of their good friends to someone they only know on the surface. The more they know you the more it's like "OH yeah, V is such a good woman. Oh! Ben is a good guy, I'll introduce them..." ya know what I mean?

 

I hang out with different groups of friends probably once a week, but there is nobody for them to introduce me to. All of them are only friends with other couples.

 

A friend of mine did recently try to send me on a blind date, but it was with someone completely incompatibile. Like, not even worth the price of coffee to meet him, already know it's a non-starter.

[verhrzn]

To me it comes across that many of the things she does go against her identity' date=' but she does them in the hope of achieving an outcome she strongly desires. [/quote']

 

Would you mind elaborating on this?

[d'Arthez]

To me it comes across that many of the things she does go against her identity, but she does them in the hope of achieving an outcome she strongly desires.

What I meant is that you have a certain identity, which was shaped through your life until you reached adulthood. You wanted to start a meaningful relationship, but struggled to attract suitable men. In short, your experiences were not what you wanted them to be. So you looked inward, and tried to figure out what you were doing "wrong". You asked for advice, from your friends, on here, on the things you could do to increase your chances of success. So you tried and are still trying all kinds of different things in an attempt to get what you wanted. Work on your figure, try tons of different classes, work on your wardrobe, and there are probably dozens of other things you have tried.

 

But that is not putting the real you out, but rather a highly artificial surrogate version of yourself (remember the experiment of letting yourself be dressed up for instance?). These behaviors clash with your real identity. Putting up a charade is a frustrating experience, even more so when things do not work out as you had hoped. I think that might be what partly fuels your strong reactions when you are disappointed.

 

You are really trying hard to do anything in your power to get what you want, but at the same time I think you are well aware that you *HATE* doing these things. This may also feed into the intensity with which you come across. You can't really be successful when you don't put the real V out.

 

But the problem for you is, the real V. may be looking for someone in the wrong settings? May I refer you back to post #127 in this thread?

[lospantalonsfancie]

 

I do the coffee shops and "pubs" too, and same situation.... only guys that are present are either with girls, or with big groups of guys having a "bro day."

 

The reason these guys are having a bro day is likely because they can't get any girls to join them. I'm pretty sure those guys would be open to being joined on their bro day by a cute girl and her cute girlfriend. In almost all cases where I have been out at a bar with a bunch of guys, we were all hoping to meet some girls. Have you tried starting a conversation and flirting with such guys? If they are in a big group, it would make things less awkward if you were not alone but with some girlfriends, though its doable either way.

 

But what about the loner guys sitting at the bar? Every time I go to a bar, there are always a few guys hanging out at the bar by themselves, drinking, shooting the **** with the bartender, and maybe having something to eat. I do this fairly regularly, particularly when I'm out of food at home and can't be bothered to recruit a friend to join me for dinner, and I assure you I am perfectly normal, in your age range, and datable.

 

 

Seriously, there just aren't single men around.

 

But then why do I see them everywhere? Seriously, EVERYWHERE!!

 

I have done both OKCupid and Match, and I get maybe a message a month, usually from someone WAY outside my age range or completely unsuitable (nothing in common, awful spelling, low match percentage, they have children, etc.) I send out 2-3 messages per week, and never get a response.

 

If the guys who message you are really as dreadful as you make them sound, then the only explanation is that you appear incredibly unattractive and uninteresting to most men on the site. But I find it hard to believe that is true, considering how people here who have seen your photos have remarked that you are totally cute looking. Have you had someone "critique" your OKCupid profile? Maybe you are using bad pics, saying some horrendous things that scare guys away, or something?

[lospantalonsfancie]

I hang out with different groups of friends probably once a week, but there is nobody for them to introduce me to. All of them are only friends with other couples.

 

A friend of mine did recently try to send me on a blind date, but it was with someone completely incompatibile. Like, not even worth the price of coffee to meet him, already know it's a non-starter.

 

OK, so theres a hint of what might be going wrong. Your friend, who presumably knows you, thought this guy would at least be somewhat suitable. You see it completely differently. Might it be possible that you have delusional requirements / conditions that you place on any guy you will consider seriously dating? What made this guy so undatable? Can you make a convincing case of why he was so dreadful? If you can't, you might need to think carefully about whether you are being unrealistic in your expectations.

[verhrzn]

OK, so theres a hint of what might be going wrong. Your friend, who presumably knows you, thought this guy would at least be somewhat suitable. You see it completely differently. Might it be possible that you have delusional requirements / conditions that you place on any guy you will consider seriously dating? What made this guy so undatable? Can you make a convincing case of why he was so dreadful? If you can't, you might need to think carefully about whether you are being unrealistic in your expectations.

 

He was too attractive. Also, he was a sports guy.

 

My friend thought it was a brilliant idea just because the guy is kind of a nerd. (Plays some FPS and the occasional Magic game.) My friend is right on the edge of a jock/nerd himself, and does a lot of partying... I think he has this misconception that I just need to "loosen up," and then I'll be just like him.

 

What my friend doesn't realize is I'm NOT like him. I don't like partying, I don't enjoy sports. More importantly, sporty guys do not like me. I am a short, chubby nerdy girl. This blind date was a runner and a partier. It's just two completely different lifestyles that don't mix.

 

If anything, I'd say my friend has the unrealistic expectation.

 

And yes, I've had several people critique my profile, and they can't find anything wrong. So, there aren't any single guys in real life, and online, the guys aren't interested.

 

Which is why I keep circling back to thinking that love is just a matter of luck and little else.

[ThaWholigan]

He was too attractive. Also, he was a sports guy.

 

My friend thought it was a brilliant idea just because the guy is kind of a nerd. (Plays some FPS and the occasional Magic game.) My friend is right on the edge of a jock/nerd himself, and does a lot of partying... I think he has this misconception that I just need to "loosen up," and then I'll be just like him.

 

What my friend doesn't realize is I'm NOT like him. I don't like partying, I don't enjoy sports. More importantly, sporty guys do not like me. I am a short, chubby nerdy girl. This blind date was a runner and a partier. It's just two completely different lifestyles that don't mix.

 

If anything, I'd say my friend has the unrealistic expectation.

 

And yes, I've had several people critique my profile, and they can't find anything wrong. So, there aren't any single guys in real life, and online, the guys aren't interested.

 

Which is why I keep circling back to thinking that love is just a matter of luck and little else.

Haha. That would describe me pretty well these days. Half Jock, Half Nerd.

 

Do you have to date a person who is exactly like you? (in terms of interests, hobbies etc?)

[verhrzn]

Haha. That would describe me pretty well these days. Half Jock, Half Nerd.

 

Do you have to date a person who is exactly like you? (in terms of interests, hobbies etc?)

 

No, but I want to date someone who is interested in me. And sporty/jock guys are not.

 

I also really want to date someone with common interests. If I have absolutely no interest in sports, how can I possibly date someone whose main interest is sports?

 

I dunno. I am more and more convinced love is just luck, and it's a good idea to just give up and accept one's lack of luck in life.

[lospantalonsfancie]

He was too attractive. Also, he was a sports guy.

 

My friend thought it was a brilliant idea just because the guy is kind of a nerd. (Plays some FPS and the occasional Magic game.) My friend is right on the edge of a jock/nerd himself, and does a lot of partying... I think he has this misconception that I just need to "loosen up," and then I'll be just like him.

 

What my friend doesn't realize is I'm NOT like him. I don't like partying, I don't enjoy sports. More importantly, sporty guys do not like me. I am a short, chubby nerdy girl. This blind date was a runner and a partier. It's just two completely different lifestyles that don't mix.

 

If anything, I'd say my friend has the unrealistic expectation.

 

And yes, I've had several people critique my profile, and they can't find anything wrong. So, there aren't any single guys in real life, and online, the guys aren't interested.

 

Which is why I keep circling back to thinking that love is just a matter of luck and little else.

 

Wow. Just wow. You complain about not finding men, and here is this guy, who sounds like a catch as far as I can see, who is out on a date with you. But no, he was "too attractive" and too athletic. I'm sorry, but it sounds to me like someone is shooting herself in the foot... Maybe if you had put in effort to get to know this guy, you two would be dating... Sigh...

[ThaWholigan]

No, but I want to date someone who is interested in me. And sporty/jock guys are not.

 

I also really want to date someone with common interests. If I have absolutely no interest in sports, how can I possibly date someone whose main interest is sports?

 

I dunno. I am more and more convinced love is just luck, and it's a good idea to just give up and accept one's lack of luck in life.

I love football (soccer that is). Playing it, watching it, talking about it, tactics, skills, goals, technique, everything. I also like boxing. And MMA. I like a lot of sports. But I know that lots of girls DON'T like it, especially where I live. Sure some will watch a few games, but they won't be that bothered like I am. So I don't think you should worry about a sports head not liking you. One day, you might run into a jock who worships the ground you walk on . Never say never

[d'Arthez]

No, but I want to date someone who is interested in me. And sporty/jock guys are not.

 

I also really want to date someone with common interests. If I have absolutely no interest in sports, how can I possibly date someone whose main interest is sports?

Can you put out that list of what you want in a partner? Once we know what you are looking for, it may be easier to give advice that is actually tailormade to get you a guy to your liking?

[verhrzn]

Wow. Just wow. You complain about not finding men, and here is this guy, who sounds like a catch as far as I can see, who is out on a date with you. But no, he was "too attractive" and too athletic. I'm sorry, but it sounds to me like someone is shooting herself in the foot... Maybe if you had put in effort to get to know this guy, you two would be dating... Sigh...

 

No, we wouldn't be, because there is no freaking way he'd date me. The guy is into sports and as you say, a "catch", so why the heck would he date a short, chubby nerd he has nothing in common with??

 

There is a big difference between "shooting yourself in the foot" and "being realistic about your prospects." I can't even get a good-looking nerd guy interested in me; why the heck would a good-looking jock date me??

[lospantalonsfancie]

No, but I want to date someone who is interested in me. And sporty/jock guys are not.

 

I also really want to date someone with common interests. If I have absolutely no interest in sports, how can I possibly date someone whose main interest is sports?

 

I dunno. I am more and more convinced love is just luck, and it's a good idea to just give up and accept one's lack of luck in life.

 

I swear its like you're trolling. You won't take guys who are too attractive, nor guys who aren't geeky enough, nor guys who are too into sports, and the list goes on and on and on. Here is your diagnosis: You are not unlucky! You are just too restrictive in your list of requirements, and you are too pessimistic regarding which guys will like you. You can deny it all you want, but it is clear to anyone who hears what you have to say what your problem is.

[lospantalonsfancie]

No, we wouldn't be, because there is no freaking way he'd date me. The guy is into sports and as you say, a "catch", so why the heck would he date a short, chubby nerd he has nothing in common with??

 

There is a big difference between "shooting yourself in the foot" and "being realistic about your prospects." I can't even get a good-looking nerd guy interested in me; why the heck would a good-looking jock date me??

 

Maybe he's different than most guys and sees something in you. Did you give him a chance to like you?