How Much of Love Is Just Luck?

[d'Arthez]

So how exactly does one make their own luck?

Honestly, judging by your posts, it should not be too hard to actually find a decent bf for you. Whenever you express yourself about something other than your dating life, you come across in a very, very good way. If you talk like that in a social setting, I cannot believe that you'd struggle to attract quality dates.

 

I refuse to believe it is your body that causes you grief. If it is your body, I'd suggest you start handing out appointments for brain checks in your local hospital. Because a woman who knows what she wants, and is as articulate as you are, is g*ddamn sexy; perhaps that is what is your problem. You come across too strong, too forceful, as a personality I mean?

 

Sometimes people exude a certain "air" or "aura" or whatever term you prefer (I am not into that kind of thing, but I have been told repeatedly in my younger years that the way I carry myself makes me come across as one hell of an arrogant prick. I had no idea whatsoever the first time or even a few times after that). It is not something you can easily pick up on, and difficult as hell to master.

[Els]

You come across too strong, too forceful, as a personality I mean?

 

It could just be the culture that I was raised in, but this is generally viewed as a problem, yes. There is a niche of men who really do love women with very assertive and forceful personalities, but my experience has been that the majority of them enjoy the other end of the spectrum, or something in between.

[d'Arthez]

There is a niche of men who really do love women with very assertive and forceful personalities, but my experience has been that the majority of them enjoy the other end of the spectrum, or something in between.

Considering the interests V has, I think that might well be the problem she is facing. She is quite a feisty character, which would suggest that she does come across as quite forceful. That is not a bad thing, but a lot of people are intimidated by that.

 

Friends and people one usually associates with struggle to pick this up as well, because they know V. to be a certain way.

[Els]

Considering the interests V has, I think that might well be the problem she is facing. She is quite a feisty character, which would suggest that she does come across as quite forceful. That is not a bad thing, but a lot of people are intimidated by that.

 

Friends and people one usually associates with struggle to pick this up as well, because they know V. to be a certain way.

 

Well, with regards to her interests, I do know many men who are very attracted to a woman with such interests. It helps that women are the rarity in such circles. But even they, IME, would not be attracted to a very forceful personality. Some examples that come to mind, for me, would be V going straight up to a guy and saying, "Have sex with me", arguing with them due to her insistence of footing the bill, or just, well, arguing lots in general. But different cultures may differ, this is just how I see it.

[zengirl]

So how exactly does one make their own luck?

 

I asked this before, but no one addressed it: I do all the things I'm supposed to. I wear make-up, I work out, I go to every social event I'm invited to, I have interesting hobbies, and I have approached guys in the past (no longer, *hiss* to the idea.) I also live in a big city that, supposedly, has lots of single guys.

 

In what ways could I increase my luck?

 

By changing your mentality -- resilience and pluck and positive attitudes all create luck, IME.

 

Well, with regards to her interests, I do know many men who are very attracted to a woman with such interests. It helps that women are the rarity in such circles. But even they, IME, would not be attracted to a very forceful personality. Some examples that come to mind, for me, would be V going straight up to a guy and saying, "Have sex with me", arguing with them due to her insistence of footing the bill, or just, well, arguing lots in general. But different cultures may differ, this is just how I see it.

 

Typically: Arguing is never really sexy, but especially bad in women.

 

I would suppose I am a forceful woman, but I'm also fairly demure in many social settings. I'm very Southern in many ways --- the typical mix of forceful/force of nature and softness that you'd imagine. I don't think men, in the Western world in general, are against a strong, forceful woman in many respects, but they are against one who appears angry/negative, has too much yang and not enough yin (let's be honest; there are ways to be forceful that are accepted as feminine and ways that are not), or is too pushy in general. I don't think it's so much "Men want a submissive women" (though some do) as much as that forcefulness in the wrong tone can seem shrill and off-putting. I've not seen assertiveness in women punished much in life in the Western world, honestly, but certainly aggression seems to be something only a small subset of MEN can get away with.

[Brit]

Maybe, this meaning, that maybe 5 people walked in a door, in which you walked out of 30 minutes prior, and they were all perfect candidates and companions for you. Maybe someone will go on a dating site, and be lucky and find their soulmate. Anything is possible, but a better word would be how likely would it be to walk smack into someone who is your love/soulmate. And more importantly what you base the definition of love on. I have witnessed some who believe butting heads and bickering, fighting and making up equals love, others perfect compatibility, others a good cook or provider.

For myself, love would equal someone who makes me laugh hysterically, naturally good natured, a great debater, and conversationalist, has the same interests and is non judgemental of others, enjoys trying new things, and new adventures. I figure my chances of finding this are slim.

[verhrzn]

Typically: Arguing is never really sexy, but especially bad in women.

 

I would suppose I am a forceful woman, but I'm also fairly demure in many social settings. I'm very Southern in many ways --- the typical mix of forceful/force of nature and softness that you'd imagine. I don't think men, in the Western world in general, are against a strong, forceful woman in many respects, but they are against one who appears angry/negative, has too much yang and not enough yin (let's be honest; there are ways to be forceful that are accepted as feminine and ways that are not), or is too pushy in general. I don't think it's so much "Men want a submissive women" (though some do) as much as that forcefulness in the wrong tone can seem shrill and off-putting. I've not seen assertiveness in women punished much in life in the Western world, honestly, but certainly aggression seems to be something only a small subset of MEN can get away with.

 

Makes more sense than not. I think I am rather masculine in a lot of ways, and I think I tend to Alpha Nerd guys. That's very frustrating though... that's just who I am. I am not a feminine person. I am a person who argues, and who does have a forceful personality. So, I guess I just have to say that because I'm not a feminine woman, I am doomed to single hood?

[d'Arthez]

I am not a feminine person. I am a person who argues, and who does have a forceful personality. So, I guess I just have to say that because I'm not a feminine woman, I am doomed to single hood?

Not at all. But pretending you are a feminine person does not get you anywhere. And shutting up and acting stupid (as you'd probably call it) will not get you anywhere either.

 

A forceful personality in a woman can be very attractive to some men. Sadly it is a smaller subset of the type of men you are interested in. But they are out there.

[threebyfate]

Using the flaw proof formula of 100%/2+7% = 57% is luck.

[Teknoe]

Everybody is taking what I'm saying far too seriously about the levels and such.

 

Either way, I've already said that I've been growing and that I'm not who I used to be, but I'm still getting crushed by girls.

 

 

Just an FYI, the reason "everybody" is taking what you said about levels so seriously is because you have not shown (or plotted out) how you have grown since the experience with D. You can say "I have grown!" or you can provide specifics. The former is just hot air that not many will buy based on your reputation (i.e. history of posts). The latter would give people a better idea of how you've grown, but you need to state specifics and not just claim "I've grown!" but show no signs of it.

 

I'm only saying this because you continue to act as if "the majority of Loveshack users are out against you." Honestly, it's been very difficult to see how you've grown in the last 9 months or so.

 

If you provided specifics though, like how you've changed your ways of thinking, activities, etc. that would help your cause. I know some people might say "Why should SD care what people here think" but it's pretty obvious that YOU DO care, when you constantly post in defense of yourself. I'm just providing this info in case you were unaware of how it might be solved.

 

Provide specifics, don't just say "I've said I've grown!" and then people will understand better.

 

Right now it's just hot air -- until you provide specifics on how exactly you have grown.

 

@ V, what kind of activities are you involved in? What kind of job do you work? What does a day in the life of V look like?

[somedude81]

Just an FYI, the reason "everybody" is taking what you said about levels so seriously is because you have not shown (or plotted out) how you have grown since the experience with D. You can say "I have grown!" or you can provide specifics. The former is just hot air that not many will buy based on your reputation (i.e. history of posts). The latter would give people a better idea of how you've grown, but you need to state specifics and not just claim "I've grown!" but show no signs of it.

 

I'm only saying this because you continue to act as if "the majority of Loveshack users are out against you." Honestly, it's been very difficult to see how you've grown in the last 9 months or so.

 

If you provided specifics though, like how you've changed your ways of thinking, activities, etc. that would help your cause. I know some people might say "Why should SD care what people here think" but it's pretty obvious that YOU DO care, when you constantly post in defense of yourself. I'm just providing this info in case you were unaware of how it might be solved.

 

Provide specifics, don't just say "I've said I've grown!" and then people will understand better.

 

Right now it's just hot air -- until you provide specifics on how exactly you have grown.

I'm talking about a bigger timeframe then the past six months.

 

Frankly, I've felt like absolute sh*t since the end of last year, but I've still manged to ask out a few girls.

[Teknoe]

I'm talking about a bigger timeframe then the past six months.

 

 

Which is fine. But where are the specifics?

 

Plot it out. Post it. You can do a timeline if you wish.

[somedude81]

Which is fine. But where are the specifics?

 

Plot it out. Post it. You can do a timeline if you wish.

And I don't wish to.

 

That's kind of the thing a therapist would ask me to do. And I don't remember hiring you.

[Teknoe]

And I don't wish to.

 

That's kind of the thing a therapist would ask me to do. And I don't remember hiring you.

 

Again, you may be unaware of this, so I'm pointing it out for your own benefit IN CASE you're not aware.

 

The reason why "everyone" on LS is "against you" or quick to question you is based on your post history and your current state of being. You DO recognize that if you don't state specifics, it only hurts the way people receive you, right?

 

And before you say you don't care how LS posters think of you, it's obvious YOU DO (based on how frequent you are in defending yourself).

 

If you post specifics, it'd be so much easier FOR YOU.

 

Why do you refuse to post specifics? You've shared far more personal things on here.

 

When you continually refuse to plot out specifics, you wreck your own credibility and people stop believing you. In fact, some may even question your degree of honesty. Perhaps you're unwilling to post specifics because you haven't actually done much and you'd be lying if you spruced up your specifics? (just sharing with you what others may be thinking)

[lospantalonsfancie]

Where on earth do you people live? How can you not find single men??!! I'm a man, and frankly all I ever see around me are single men and no women. When I go out to bars, I see mostly men. When I play sports in local sports leagues (soccer, volleyball, ultimate, all sports women supposedly play) we are always short on girls and most of the guys in the league are single. In fact, we have had to cancel games when there weren't enough girls to meet the quotas for coed, never the other way around. How is it possible that you don't find men? You two must either be lying, or not including most eligible (and probably perfectly reasonable) men in your count.

 

 

Are there places where an abundance of single men over a certain age exist (over 25 for V, over 30 for myself)?

 

I've pointed out recently on here that I've met two single men this year. Is this bad luck or are there really none out there?

[wordrock]

Where on earth do you people live? How can you not find single men??!! I'm a man, and frankly all I ever see around me are single men and no women. When I go out to bars, I see mostly men. When I play sports in local sports leagues (soccer, volleyball, ultimate, all sports women supposedly play) we are always short on girls and most of the guys in the league are single. How is it possible that you don't find men? You two must either be lying, or not including most eligible (and probably perfectly reasonable) men in your count.

 

They probably mean "single men who fit my own personal 3 paragraphs of criteria"

[Els]

Makes more sense than not. I think I am rather masculine in a lot of ways, and I think I tend to Alpha Nerd guys. That's very frustrating though... that's just who I am. I am not a feminine person. I am a person who argues, and who does have a forceful personality. So, I guess I just have to say that because I'm not a feminine woman, I am doomed to single hood?

 

IMO, a 'forceful personality' is something that can be tempered and worked on without sacrificing your core personality. It's like someone saying 'I have a hot temper' - this doesn't mean that they need to do a 180 and make themselves the sheeplest sheeple there ever was, but it does mean that it's something they can work on moderating themselves in. You don't need to be a demure daisy - hell, zengirl and myself aren't in many ways. But there are different ways of expressing strength, assertion, and capability, and the most brute-force way is not always the best. It IS something you can change. If you want to.

 

If you don't want to, I still think there will be a subset of men who might enjoy that. Hence my suggestion to you when I heard you were into kink clubs. I know a few people online who met their LT partner via BDSM munches and such. A genuinely sexually submissive men might enjoy your extreme assertiveness.

[Els]

When I play sports in local sports leagues (soccer, volleyball, ultimate, all sports women supposedly play) we are always short on girls and most of the guys in the league are single. In fact, we have had to cancel games when there weren't enough girls to meet the quotas for coed, never the other way around. How is it possible that you don't find men?

 

Of course local sports leagues are going to be lacking in women. Most knitting clubs are also lacking in men. I don't get what your point is. Should V take up soccer just to meet guys, or you guys can take up knitting to meet women?

[verhrzn]

@ V, what kind of activities are you involved in? What kind of job do you work? What does a day in the life of V look like?

 

I work at a tech company. Nearly all the guys are engaged or married (one of my coworkers is divorced and single.) My usual day is work, gym, hobbies at home, but I do outside activities like dance, go to my company's softball games, go to Magic tournaments. I spend a lot of time at the library/book store. I do martial arts once or twice a month, but all the guys in my class are engaged/married as well.

 

Where on earth do you people live? How can you not find single men??!! I'm a man, and frankly all I ever see around me are single men and no women. When I go out to bars, I see mostly men. When I play sports in local sports leagues (soccer, volleyball, ultimate, all sports women supposedly play) we are always short on girls and most of the guys in the league are single. In fact, we have had to cancel games when there weren't enough girls to meet the quotas for coed, never the other way around. How is it possible that you don't find men? You two must either be lying, or not including most eligible (and probably perfectly reasonable) men in your count.

 

I swear up and down I'm not lying. In my circle of friends, there are a few recently single guys, but they are not "open for business" for various reasons (very recent break-up, recently divorced, enjoy the player lifestyle.)

 

Perhaps the issue is there are single men, but they never appear to be single. I was at a bookstore today, and I took some notes: every single guy my age range that was there over the two hours I was, had a girl along with him.

 

Now, maybe some of those guys actually were single, and the girl was just a friend, but the point was, they did not appear single. I see this at the grocery store, at the bars... the only time I see men that don't have a woman attached to their hip is at the gym.

 

Maybe I just live in a parallel universe.

[verhrzn]

Of course local sports leagues are going to be lacking in women. Most knitting clubs are also lacking in men. I don't get what your point is. Should V take up soccer just to meet guys, or you guys can take up knitting to meet women?

 

I hear sometimes that I should join a sports league to meet guys, but I don't see how that would be an advantage if 1) I don't like sporty guys and 2) I am AWFUL at sports. I am the most uncoordinated, clumsy, pouty player you will ever see in team events. I do fine in individual sports, like tennis or martial arts, but stick me in a team event and I go completely to pieces.

 

I mean... what sporty guy is gonna be like "Oh man, this girl sucks at the sport I love-I am totally gonna ask her out!"

 

It would be awesome if a few single men wandered into my sewing classes once in a while. I did get a few bites online from some male cosplayers asking for tips on costuming. Score yet another point for the nerds!

 

All right, back on point... if you don't meet single men, is that a matter of luck or circumstance? And if it's circumstance, should you force a change? Like, should I join a male-dominated sports club, even though it'd be a disastrous dating experience in the long run?

[d'Arthez]

IMO, a 'forceful personality' is something that can be tempered and worked on without sacrificing your core personality. It's like someone saying 'I have a hot temper' - this doesn't mean that they need to do a 180 and make themselves the sheeplest sheeple there ever was, but it does mean that it's something they can work on moderating themselves in.

This is true, but I wonder that V. should want herself to "lose her edge". Obviously for her, behaving as forcefully as she does is natural to her. Intensity is what defines her. She has a very strong sense of identity, and I think she has always had - just think about her school going years. I am not sure how happy she could be if she "toned it down".

 

Her struggles with her corporeal existence, and the difficulty she has had with "acting feminine" point to the same thing. She can try and work on the edges, but not much more than that. And it seems highly doubtful this would result in more success in her love-life; being more agreeable just does not cut it to form and maintain a relationship.

 

If you don't want to, I still think there will be a subset of men who might enjoy that. Hence my suggestion to you when I heard you were into kink clubs. I know a few people online who met their LT partner via BDSM munches and such. A genuinely sexually submissive men might enjoy your extreme assertiveness.

I don't think V., looks for sexually submissive men, but rather men who are comfortable with her forcefulness. While the two are related, they are certainly not highly predictive of each other.

 

Her problem may simply be that "submissive" men are not really out and about, or insofar that they are, are quite awkward in social settings. And it is easy to take "spineless" for "submissive". But a few "submissive" people are comfortable with who they are, with a strong sense of identity. Because V. has a very strong personality, she needs to find someone with an equally strong sense of identity. Those people are really rare.

[lospantalonsfancie]

Of course local sports leagues are going to be lacking in women. Most knitting clubs are also lacking in men. I don't get what your point is. Should V take up soccer just to meet guys, or you guys can take up knitting to meet women?

 

Um, what? Sports are a "man thing" now? Did you grow up in the 50s? You know they call them COED leagues for a reason, right?

 

And knitting? Seriously? That's not so much a female hobby as an elderly female hobby, so its just a bad example on your part. Perhaps "reading club" or "yoga" would be a more fitting example, though I will point out that last time I was at a yoga class it had quite a few men.

 

Frankly, it seems to me that men are just everywhere, doing the things they love and lamenting the lack of women anywhere in sight.

Edited May 28, 2012 by lospantalonsfancie

[Els]

Um, what? Sports are a "man thing" now? Did you grow up in the 50s? You know they call them COED leagues for a reason, right?

 

And knitting? Seriously? That's not so much a female hobby as an elderly female hobby, so its just a bad example on your part. Perhaps "reading club" or "yoga" would be a more fitting example, though I will point out that last time I was at a yoga class it had quite a few men.

 

Frankly, it seems to me that men rare just everywhere, doing the things they love and lamenting the lack of women anywhere in sight.

 

People like what they like. There are just fewer women interested in competitive sports (as opposed to just 'sports') than men in many areas. That's just the way it is, and is in no way reflective of 'how many men there are out there'. Frankly I don't even see the connection.

 

Yes, knitting clubs mostly consist of elderly women, many of whom are SINGLE. You are just not interested in them. And the OP isn't interested in the sort of men who play in soccer leagues. It was a perfect example, in fact.

[d'Arthez]

All right, back on point... if you don't meet single men, is that a matter of luck or circumstance? And if it's circumstance, should you force a change? Like, should I join a male-dominated sports club, even though it'd be a disastrous dating experience in the long run?

Let's go about it in the other way: what are the characteristics in men that you are looking for? What are the absolute non-negotiables, the things that are very important to you, and the things that would be merely a bonus to you?

 

Once you have a clear picture of that, you may find it easier to figure out what these men are more likely to be doing. If you know what they are doing, how they approach life, and how / where you can meet such men, it will be much easier for you to find a method that works in meeting men who are right for you.

 

Joining a male-dominated sports club would be a complete waste of time for you. I don't think you'd find what you are looking for there.

[lospantalonsfancie]

there are a few recently single guys, but they are not "open for business" for various reasons (very recent break-up, recently divorced, enjoy the player lifestyle.)

 

^^^ This right here is your problem. Look! LOOK!!! All these guys who are "not open for business" are actually totally normal and open for business. What are you waiting for, a guy who's been single for a year and waiting for you, and hasn't been sleeping with anyone or enjoying it? Nobody's life is in standstill waiting for you to snatch them up. It appears that you write off the men around you prematurely.

 

 

 

Perhaps the issue is there are single men, but they never appear to be single. I was at a bookstore today, and I took some notes: every single guy my age range that was there over the two hours I was, had a girl along with him.

 

That's surprising, but lets grant for a moment that guys only go to bookstores with girls, say because guys don't actually like to read and only follow girls into bookstores. There are a million places where you are guaranteed to find multitudes of men who are dying to meet you. Go on yelp, right now, and look for bars nearby --- casual watering holes where you can grab a bite and a drink, but not necessarily get trashed. Go there, either by yourself or with one friend and grab a bite and/or a drink at the bar. I will bet you my left nut that you will find many more men than women at all these places, and unless you are at some kind of biker bar many of them will be single, datable, and within your age range.

 

You don't like bars? OK then go to a coffee shop in the vicinity of a university. Any decent university will do. You will find graduate students there. Male graduate students are the ideal demographic for you: they are in an environment with few women (gradschool), they are nerdy and successful, and have a lot of work that they often do in coffee shops. Talk to one of them and you will make his day.

 

You don't like coffee shops? OK, then go on online dating. OKcupid is the best, but you probably already knew that. In fact, you are probably already on it. If you are, how many messages do you get per week? I bet you that you would get at least a couple that you could translate into dates with reasonably eligible men. So, whats the problem? I know, you will complain that none of those guys are "open for business," whatever that illusionary notion in your head may be... sigh...