mesmerized Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 A lot of things in life are based on luck, some much more than the other. I feel like if I want to make a lot of money for example, I can if I try hard enough...finding love and attraction is one of those things that I think I have the least to no control over. The fact that a high percentage of the male population doesn't even care enough about love doesn't make my job any easier.
Eternal Sunshine Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 It's a combination of both. I went years without meeting anyone because I avoided going out or putting myself out there in any way. I went to work (with zero single men) and home. In fact, I went 2 years without meeting a single man. Then, I did the opposite. I tried online dating and met 40 men in a year. I didn't really feel anything for any of those men, as nice as they were. I met ex bf at a party (I also went to every social engagement I was invited to). I am still not sure if I ever was in love with my ex. I am thinking I wasn't. So yes, I met more men but I still couldn't force "falling in love". Unfortunately, a lot of effort that went into meeting men meant that other things had to move down my priority list. I am not prepared to do that again. Lately, I am meeting more men in random ways (just going about my normal life). None are quite right but it does make me think that the possibility is there.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Some want to compare this to a "law of attraction". Lets take this a step farther and see how love does obey knowable rules...but is not a simple y=mx+b kinda affair. It's a complicated set of rules that dictates your chances. In physics they write of quantum mechanics as being probableistic. They consider the probability of a particle being inside or outside of a box. The answers basically result in what are called "expectation values". Love is kind of like that. Yes it is a law of attraction, just like the law that attracts an electron to a proton. Just like that law there is a probability that the electron will be in the most closely bound state, or in a state so excited, the bond so weak that it escapes the proton. Love is kind of like that. Add to that probability that the electron and the proton need to be in the same place at the same time for the law of attraction to even be a factor. That is true luck...but even so it is only part of it. Ones chance of finding love can be manipulated. Just as the charge of a nucleus can be made stronger by adding more protons...so too can a person become more attractive. Even then luck may not bring a compatible person along at the right time and circumstance. Being more attractive just makes it that much easier to overcome not having just the right circumstance. TL;DR. Love is like quantum mechanics. It is knowable and predictable but at most we can only make falling in love more probable than not. Sad to say though it may feel like a deep otherworldly thing when it happens....the truth is its allot of luck and allot of chemicals. 1
matte123 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Some want to compare this to a "law of attraction". Lets take this a step farther and see how love does obey knowable rules...but is not a simple y=mx+b kinda affair. It's a complicated set of rules that dictates your chances. In physics they write of quantum mechanics as being probableistic. They consider the probability of a particle being inside or outside of a box. The answers basically result in what are called "expectation values". Love is kind of like that. Yes it is a law of attraction, just like the law that attracts an electron to a proton. Just like that law there is a probability that the electron will be in the most closely bound state, or in a state so excited, the bond so weak that it escapes the proton. Love is kind of like that. Add to that probability that the electron and the proton need to be in the same place at the same time for the law of attraction to even be a factor. That is true luck...but even so it is only part of it. Ones chance of finding love can be manipulated. Just as the charge of a nucleus can be made stronger by adding more protons...so too can a person become more attractive. Even then luck may not bring a compatible person along at the right time and circumstance. Being more attractive just makes it that much easier to overcome not having just the right circumstance. TL;DR. Love is like quantum mechanics. It is knowable and predictable but at most we can only make falling in love more probable than not. Sad to say though it may feel like a deep otherworldly thing when it happens....the truth is its allot of luck and allot of chemicals. Wow using quantum mechanics to explain love! Love your post and agree with it even though I didn't learn anything from that class lol 1
zengirl Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) To me, luck occurs whether you try or not. Luck is something that happens regardless of what you do. You can increase your odds of something occurring, but if you have bad luck you will not win, even if your odds seem better than someone else’s. I find there are similarities in the mindsets of very lucky people and similarities in the mindsets of very unlucky people, so to some degree I believe in a "law of attraction" type thing for luck, but not as simplified as something like 'The Secret' --- I simply don't believe ALL of luck is randomly assigned. There seems to be more to the pattern than that for me. As to odds, I don't know if we can ever draw odds on dating or things like that, which don't actually have firm mathematical odds. I think part of skewing your odds is increasing luck through having the mindset of a lucky person. A lot of luck is mental. Example: I went to college with a girl who was basically a hooker. She would meet old men online and they would pay her bills in exchange for sexual favors. She would date men her own age as well and use them until she was tired of them. She told me stopped counting the men she had slept with at around 60. She’s now married to a very nice, wealthy man (he’s her age). Her husband, of course, doesn’t know about her past. I'm not sure that example works for what you want it to work. I don't see why her past would've decreased her 'odds' at landing a great husband, especially if she didn't disclose to him. If anything, her luck with men continued when she met her husband. Not a reversal at all. Doesn't sound like she had a particularly healthy dynamic, by my standards, with those men, but it wasn't something I'd see as necessarily a hindrance to a future marriage to someone else when her priorities changed as she aged. Her marrying a nice, wealthy man actually sounds like the natural continuance of her story. I'm sure her priorities had to change slightly to get married, as did her actions and perhaps in some ways, her traits, but you can change ALL those over time, as well as your luck. I, on the other hand, meet neither nice nor wealthy men and I feel like I’ve always positioned myself better than her. I’ve never used people, I’ve always been honest, and I’ve never been promiscuous, yet I haven't been rewarded with the opportunity to meet suitable people. Well, no, nowhere in my formula did it say the 'good' necessarily got rewarded. The promiscuity the other woman displayed isn't something I'd personally even qualify as bad (not for me, but not something I morally judge personally), but using and lying, if she did, would be bad. Of course, it's possible the men knew what was up when they met a girl like her from what you write above and chose to sleep with her for their own benefit anyway (hard to say), so I'm not sure how badly she treated them, but at any rate, treating others badly in the fashion she did doesn't seem like it'd necessarily be a handicap. That's a sad fact of life --- it sounds like rich, nice men have always been attracted to her and wanted to be with her, and her husband is no exception. I'm guessing she has to treat him differently than the previous men (changing those actions and priorities) to keep him around. But, no, there is no "just be good and it'll happen" type thing in my philosophy, nor do I know that to be true. Sounds nice for a Kindergarten classroom, but I've never necessarily noticed life working that way. However, obviously using and lying can backfire, but once you stop those actions and change your priorities, it seems that you can recover. I've seen that too and your friend is no exception. (At any rate, I'd say be good and do good because it makes life better, in general, because doing good makes you feel good and doing bad inevitably weighs on you.) At any rate, with someone like you, I'd say priorities is more the culprit than luck. You live in a place where there are very low prospects for love and haven't looked outside that area for love, because you prioritize other things. Edited May 25, 2012 by zengirl
Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I find there are similarities in the mindsets of very lucky people and similarities in the mindsets of very unlucky people, so to some degree I believe in a "law of attraction" type thing for luck, but not as simplified as something like 'The Secret' --- I simply don't believe ALL of luck is randomly assigned. There seems to be more to the pattern than that for me. I don't think there's a causal relationship between luck in love (or anything else) and mindset. If anything a long string of bad luck will give you the mindset of someone who can't count on luck. It may make one depressed and bitter to work work work on yourself but never have anything work out. Luck is by definition random. i.e. picking the lucky lotto numbers...random. Love is by it's nature a chemical and physical attraction. The carriers of that force, the vectors of that force are quantized. Ever met half of a person? Like all things quantum it is probableistic...but not random. Some people for complex but not incomprehensible reasons are more likely to fall in love when the opportunity presents itself. Weather or not love presents itself is luck, the rest is mostly predictable from that point on. We can say in general that 100% of people will fall in love with someone. We can say in general that 90% of those people will reciprocate that love We can say in general that of those who get married 50% will divorce within 7 years. We can say in general that out of shape broke men who don't shower are less likely to get dates than men who are either in shape, have money, or shower. and so on. The only real mystery are the people who are great catches but never seem to get into a long term relationship. It could be that they are, on closer inspection, not so great and impossible to live with. Or it could be that they are just unlucky.
zengirl Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I don't think there's a causal relationship between luck in love (or anything else) and mindset. If anything a long string of bad luck will give you the mindset of someone who can't count on luck. It may make one depressed and bitter to work work work on yourself but never have anything work out. Well, our experiences are defined by our beliefs, so if you believe that, it's probably been reinforced in your experiences as mine has in mind. I've found when I changed my mindset, I could change my luck.
Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Well, our experiences are defined by our beliefs, so if you believe that, it's probably been reinforced in your experiences as mine has in mind. I've found when I changed my mindset, I could change my luck. So with the right mindset I can win the 110 million dollar jackpot tonite? I ask because that's pure unadulterated luck. Obviously I cannot will the balls to fall how I need them through mindset. Then there are things like love which are probabilistic in nature but not random and "lucky". Think of it like this. Jupiter is more attractive to asteroids than earth. It's big and strong and has a big gravitational cross section. Jupiter is more likely to get hit. That's not Jupiter being unlucky....that's gravity. TL;DR Love is like that. The people who never fall into a mutual loving relationship are people who are undesirable in some way, they are repulsive not attractive. If by changing mindset you mean doing what it takes to go from repulsive to attractive then we agree. If you mean some sort of "mind over matter" sort of thing let's agree to disagree.
zengirl Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 So with the right mindset I can win the 110 million dollar jackpot tonite? I ask because that's pure unadulterated luck. No, that's luck and probability. As I said, with things like love, there ARE no probabilities to worry about. At any rate, in a metaphysical sense, perhaps with the right mindset you COULD overcome the probability of lotto jackpots or fly or something outrageous, I don't know, but that mindset is likely impossible to achieve because there's no way to forget the idea of 'odds against it' or impossibility or whatnot in all cases like that. I don't really know, or necessarily believe that, but it seems a possible idea to me. When I speak of luck with dating, it's very different than luck with something that has tangible odds. There's no way to take odds on your love life properly and mathematically. Then there are things like love which are probabilistic in nature but not random and "lucky". I don't think there's ANY real probability to love whatsoever. I've never seen a math equation for it, nor could I make one. If by changing mindset you mean doing what it takes to go from repulsive to attractive then we agree. If you mean some sort of "mind over matter" sort of thing let's agree to disagree. I mean a bit of both. With changing, I mean mostly the former, though. But changing INCLUDES mindset. However, 'mind over matter' is a poor phrase. It's more about how mind and matter influence each other. I would never suggest someone deny what is, but your visions of what could or couldn't be (conscious and subconscious) will obviously shape your actions and luck and path and all parts of your life.
Author verhrzn Posted May 25, 2012 Author Posted May 25, 2012 So Zengirl, how are you supposed to change your mindset to be more lucky in love? I've been trying to do the whole grateful/positive thing, and so far, it's gotten me nowhere except making me feel insufferable. Is it possible that for some people, changing their mindset would be beneficial because it is their negative mindset keeping them back, but for some other people, they're just unlucky regardless of mindset?
d'Arthez Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Is it possible that for some people, changing their mindset would be beneficial because it is their negative mindset keeping them back, but for some other people, they're just unlucky regardless of mindset? I am sure the bolded part is possible. And if you live in a somewhat rural area, quite likely.
matte123 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 TL;DR. Love is like quantum mechanics. It is knowable and predictable but at most we can only make falling in love more probable than not. Sad to say though it may feel like a deep otherworldly thing when it happens....the truth is its allot of luck and allot of chemicals. I don't know how I missed this. Must be sleep deprived lol. Anyways I don't agree with love being knowable and predictable. I don't think you can predict love. Perhaps love can be that way if you believe that love is predestined.
d'Arthez Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I don't know how I missed this. Must be sleep deprived lol. Anyways I don't agree with love being knowable and predictable. I don't think you can predict love. Perhaps love can be that way if you believe that love is predestined. But if you believe in predestination, then this whole topic ultimately becomes pointless. Since "luck" is out of the question then.
zengirl Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 So Zengirl, how are you supposed to change your mindset to be more lucky in love? First, understand: When I say "be more lucky in love" that doesn't mean that everything will always go your way, life will be a bed of roses, the whole world will smile at you, etc, etc. I mean, it's a general sense. I've had some runs of REALLY bad luck in love, but I'd say overall I'm pretty lucky in general since I cleaned up my mind, including in love. I think the trick to improving your luck is: 1.) Resilience - This seems counter intuitive because resilience is something you'll need when you have BAD luck too, but the less you NEED luck to stay positive, the more luck you'll get, IME. Having a resilient spirit almost guarantees when good situations come around, you'll notice them and capitalize on them, so it increases your luck because you look for the good even when you've been hit with the bad. 2.) A mindset of abundance - there is truly something powerful to believing everything will be OK, the universe will provide (if you do your part, of course), and that success will come. I can't explain why, but I've experienced it, and experienced a mindset change, and it improved my life and luck immensely. 3.) A determination to make your own luck - Yes, we need to accept things as they are, but if you're determined, persistent, and have a bit of pluck to you to go out there and say, "I'll make it happen!" and really believe that, it seems like, eventually, you will --- that's what I've seen repeatedly. Anyone who really went out there and said, "You may think I'm crazy, but I'm going to do it" and doesn't give in to doubt --- that doesn't mean they deny reality, but they accept that they can CHANGE their circumstances and truly believe they will --- seems to succeed. Someone who waits for their luck to change may learn a lot of patience, but it rarely improves their luck. I've been trying to do the whole grateful/positive thing, and so far, it's gotten me nowhere except making me feel insufferable. Well, that won't work if you feel insufferable! Why does it make you feel that way? A lot of a positive attitude is resilience, honestly. That's the #1 thing --- letting stuff roll right off of you, no problem. So that's what I'd work on first, getting less frustrated or upset about things and also beating yourself up less (that's a particular issue to you -- I used to do that too, as a defense mechanism, because I was taught to do so, but it's a poor life strategy -- and doesn't apply to the general discussion). Is it possible that for some people, changing their mindset would be beneficial because it is their negative mindset keeping them back, but for some other people, they're just unlucky regardless of mindset? Well, we'll all have unlucky MOMENTS regardless of mindset. I don't really think there's such a thing as a lucky or unlucky person (this may seem to contradict my calling myself "lucky" -- I feel I am, but it's not really TRUE; I actively cultivate luck, sure, but it's not something I just am, like a brunette, or whatever) but there are unlucky and lucky strategies, mindsets, moments, and situations. Lucky people are typically people who've learned --- either naturally/instinctively or by trial and error --- how to maximize the luck in those 4 areas. And possibly more. It's not a science.
matte123 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 But if you believe in predestination' date=' then this whole topic ultimately becomes pointless. Since "luck" is out of the question then.[/quote'] Yep that's true.
iris219 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 So with the right mindset I can win the 110 million dollar jackpot tonite? I ask because that's pure unadulterated luck. Obviously I cannot will the balls to fall how I need them through mindset. Then there are things like love which are probabilistic in nature but not random and "lucky". Think of it like this. Jupiter is more attractive to asteroids than earth. It's big and strong and has a big gravitational cross section. Jupiter is more likely to get hit. That's not Jupiter being unlucky....that's gravity. TL;DR Love is like that. The people who never fall into a mutual loving relationship are people who are undesirable in some way, they are repulsive not attractive. If by changing mindset you mean doing what it takes to go from repulsive to attractive then we agree. If you mean some sort of "mind over matter" sort of thing let's agree to disagree. I’m more curious about people who aren’t in any way repulsive. They are quite attractive (not just physically) and well liked by people. They simply don’t meet anyone who’s attractive (I don’t mean physically; I mean suitable for a relationship). They aren’t rejecting or getting rejected by good people. There’s no opportunity for rejection because they don’t cross paths with good people who are single, even though they are respectable people who surround themselves with other respectable people. That sounds like bad luck to me.
zengirl Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I’m more curious about people who aren’t in any way repulsive. They are quite attractive (not just physically) and well liked by people. They simply don’t meet anyone who’s attractive (I don’t mean physically; I mean suitable for a relationship). They aren’t rejecting or getting rejected by good people. There’s no opportunity for rejection because they don’t cross paths with good people who are single, even though they are respectable people who surround themselves with other respectable people. That sounds like bad luck to me. Are they putting themselves out there, in places where they should be meeting those people, statistically?
JohnP82 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I disagree. Some guys and girls just don't have that extra something inside. For them it takes incredible luck. This is something that I've been thinking about lately.
somedude81 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Of course luck is a very big part of it. First of all, your appearance is primarily based on luck. How tall you are, what your face looks like, how easily you lose weight, hair type, breast size, penis size; none of it is controllable. Personality is very much determined as well by luck, mainly because you can't pick your parents or how your childhood is going to turn out. Odds are, if one was lucky enough to be born into a good family with money and have the genes to match the ideal of attractiveness; they aren't going to have many problems with dating. That applies to men and women. Luck also comes into play with who you meet and whether they are going to like you or not. As I've been repeatedly told, I can't make anybody like me. Of course that is only saying that it's completely based on luck. Without a doubt it was simply bad luck that I met and fell for a woman who ways my ideal in many ways, but she wasn't mature enough at 22 to want or be able to handle a relationship. There was nothing I could have done to make her want to date me but if my luck were better... Moving on, the very fact that men are told to play the numbers game is nothing but luck. Keeping asking out girls and maybe you'll get lucky. I really wish I could see a status screen for my self. I'm sure my luck is at 0, even better if I could find some +1 Luck items. I'm sure you could use some as well V. 1
Mrlonelyone Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I don't know how I missed this. Must be sleep deprived lol. Anyways I don't agree with love being knowable and predictable. I don't think you can predict love. Perhaps love can be that way if you believe that love is predestined. Sure you can. If we leave out the whole how people meet eachother part and say a man and woman are in a room. Both are conventionally attractive, single and looking, good jobs, comparable education, good attitudes and mentally healthy. (Suppose they came into the room to wait for their cars to be repaired). In such a situation there is a probability that they will talk and fall in love. That probability is a fixed knowable and predictable number. We may not yet be smart enough to do that math, but in principle it is possible to do it. If your looking for a deterministic certainty....even in physics that is only an illusion.
zengirl Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I like the video game metaphor, SD, but I think Luck +1 items are found all throughout life, honestly. I think you could make a metaphor between different people's "starting luck" --- the hand their dealt when they're born, etc --- and video games/board games/etc. But as they improve through life (gain the life equivalent of EXP) and gain 'items' and so forth, there really are boundless options to improve whatever areas you want, including luck, IMO. I don't think I started my life with the luck I have now. I had far from a perfect childhood. As a child, I saw abuse, divorce, and suffered a lot of psychological wounds, despite having a good mother and good step-father. My mother was mentally ill for much of my childhood, as good a woman and mother as she was. I did have a good HS relationship, which may be somewhat lucky, but that situation ended in perhaps the unluckiest way any can end. I could easily spin those years of my life and even the later ones to follow as unlucky. I don't think I'd have much success spinning the life I have NOW as unlucky, but I definitely made this luck and changed my life for the better. That doesn't mean my husband couldn't still die, or I couldn't, or that bad, terrible things couldn't still happen. They could, of course, and some terrible things will --- they do to everyone and they do to even high-luck video game or board game characters when the AI decide it or the dice fall wrong. C'est la vie. I also know people who consider themselves luckier than me and have great lives who have had experiences and situations even MORE unlucky than these I list, by far. I think a lot of how lucky you see yourself depends on how you fixate on the good or bad things in your life and how much meaning you make out of the bad times. A lot of the bad things that happened to me I actually feel lucky for, because they led to amazing growth that helped me so much in retrospect. 2
TheFinalWord Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Odds are, if one was lucky enough to be born into a good family with money and have the genes to match the ideal of attractiveness; they aren't going to have many problems with dating. That applies to men and women. I disagree because I dated a pretty, rich girl. Guess what? Down to earth was not in her vocabulary! and she goes through men like you wouldn't believe. Maybe no problems getting dates, but keeping them is a whole other ball of wax. I would say for those in the upper echelon of society, they are pretty much bound to the 1% of the opposite sex haha unless you find that rare Cinderella! By all the logic presented here, average looking middle class should have the greatest luck with dating! Edited May 25, 2012 by TheFinalWord
TheFinalWord Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 i don't have luck. Yeah, luck excludes casual inference. So it depends if you're humanist, luck doesn't exist I see we have a resident quantum mechanist here, anyone into chaos theory!? Let the battle begin
iris219 Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Without a doubt it was simply bad luck that I met and fell for a woman who ways my ideal in many ways, but she wasn't mature enough at 22 to want or be able to handle a relationship. There was nothing I could have done to make her want to date me but if my luck were better... Actually, I think this is GOOD luck. It's hard to meet people we like. At least you had an opportunity and that’s all we can ask for. This is what most people are striving for. I’d rather have opportunities rather than no opportunities. I'd rather meet someone I could fall for, even they reject me, rather than NEVER meeting anyone I could fall for. It would give me hope that nice, single men over 30 exist.
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