Timid Hubby, Selfish Wife in bed?

[TimidHubby]

Hi,

 

If TL;DR (too long; didn't read, see the TL;DR section at the end for the short version)

 

Background: I've been married just over 5 years now. I love my wife very much. I've never been with anyone else.

 

The Story: I'm not one to complain or bring up perceived problems, yet I've been having one for 5 years, and in the last 5 days or so it's been keeping me up at night,...seriously, like 3-4 hours of laying in bed thinking about what I wish I could say. The problem I've been having is that I see my wife as a selfish lover. I've more or less accepted my lot in life though. Generally, our sex life consists of some kissing to get her in the mood, me performing oral on her or otherwise stimulate her to orgasm, then we have a bit of intercourse. As for her performing oral, I can count 5 times that it has happened in the last 5 years as per of foreplay (ie she's allowed a 69 a few times). Not that I've been counting, but its not that hard to remember occasions that fit on 1 hand. Also, one time where she was drunk (might happen once every two years that she drinks, i don't drink at all), she gave me an actual blowjob in the car to completion. So I know what it's like and how good it feels and that she is capable.

 

Sometimes it's clearly body issues for her, like she doesn't want to do 69 cause I might see details of her butt or that sort of thing, but to her credit once she's satisfied she has tried to consider what I'd like for the remaining minute or two for me to finish, like being on top riding up and down even though that doesn't do much for her. At one point we learned that her riding on top facing my feet gives her pleasure too since its like her favorite doggy style, but again, she doesn't feel comfortable doing that. So at least there's that.

 

However, for most of the past 5 years we've only had sex once every week or two, or sometimes three. Not because she's not willing, necessarily, but she just gives off no sexuality. She expects me to be the initiator (in year 4 I learned that making out can get her somewhat interested), and often doesn't even hint if she is feeling horny. She is very attractive... slightly overweight, but her waist is smaller than her hips and bust and she's very attractive to me, enough so that watching her just undressing makes me happy. But she doesn't ever try to turn me on. And she complains often that we don't have sex enough, but then does nothing about it other than complain that I don't make it happen often enough. In the first two years, I've bought her, and she's bought herself sexy lingerie, but I've seen each piece maybe once. Those few times she's worn something I make sure to go wide-eyed and go wow and give every indication that I like it. But she doesn't like 'initiating'. Why, I don't know still.

 

This has come to a head most recently because we became pregnant about 11 weeks ago. We had sex at week 8 or 9 and she spotted a bit the next day and we went to the ER, but they said she was fine. Her Dr suggested not having intercourse until week 13 or so. Now, yes we've gone longer stretches before without sex, but for the last week or two I've been making it clear enough that I'm still horny and feeling the need for release, but she kept ignoring me. I admit I find her even more appealing since getting pregnant. One aspect being firmer bigger rounder breasts. I even offered to just give her oral no strings attached and got turned down. Eventually (a few days ago) I gently confronted her asking her why she wasn't interested. She said that it's because she can't 'do anything about it'... I was confused, because I figured orgasm was a pretty good result, but apparently those 1-2 minutes of intercourse afterwards are more important to her than even to me?? So, ok, she doesn't want to do ANYTHING sexual because she can't have intercourse to end it... I suggested there are still things she could do with her breasts, hands, or mouth that could at least help me out, but she says that it shouldn't just be one-way. I meekly responded by saying that I guess I just have to accept it, and repress and ignore any sexual feelings I have for her.

 

Even when we have a confrontation, I talk quietly and calmly, she generally yells or talks in a loud agitated manner. If I feel bad, I apologize, if she feels bad, she gets mad that she had to feel bad and yells at me. So even in the midst of a confrontation where I try to describe my feelings (which I'm not great at), I still subconsciously avoid saying anything that might make her unhappy. She even asked if I thought she was selfish, which I've thought for 5 years, but I still say "no....." to save her feelings somewhat. For example, saying that I give her oral just about every time, and never get much back, or that I would give her oral just because I love her no strings attached (which she won't leave it at, she will require penetration afterwards for a minute or two, and if she can't have that, she doesn't want the first 30 minutes of pleasuring, she's VERY complimentary of my oral skills...to the point of wondering 'where I got them'. (She doesn't want me to watch porn)

 

Part of her new years resolutions were to lose weight (she did), get pregnant (she did), and get help from a psychiatrist, but she didn't follow through with that one and even crossed it out after getting pregnant cause she 'felt better'. I hoped she'd go and maybe address sexual and anger and life-coping issues that she has (not that I've ever told her I think she has serious issues in these areas, despite her, for example, freaking out and crying when she wants to have a bagel in the morning, so she takes a bagel out of the freezer, then realizes its frozen, so she goes and cries in bed. I, meanwhile, take a frozen bagel out, cut it in half, and put it in the toaster twice. She just can't deal with any unexpected challenges, a lot of the time). She had been abused in several ways as a teen and felt she could use help to get over them so those experiences wouldn't affect her present, so I don't get how being pregnant fixes any of that, but it's not like I can say "no, I think you still need help".

 

I've never been with anyone but my wife. I thought, based on our dating/engagement that she was a far more sexual creature. We didn't want to have sex before marriage (well, she secretly kind of did), but we would turn each other on to the point of needing to each separately finish ourselves off in the bathroom one at a time. She would, almost every weekend that I came to visit her, go topless while I (semi-)avoided looking or touching, and with my underwear still on, she'd rub her breasts around on me, which was such a turn on I sometimes couldn't even make it to the bathroom in time ;-). Basically, she was sexual and interested in turning me on then, but not after we got married. Why? Because it was taboo, not allowed (religiously). I've suggested various naughty/taboo things since getting married (ie semi-public feeling sex, like stopping on the side of a road and having sex on the grass on the other side of a cement barrier where noone could see us), but she's not interested. Perhaps that one blowjob that I've ever had in my life felt taboo to her since it was in the car at night, though as I mentioned she was pretty drunk after a Christmas party).

 

Are blowjobs so rare in married life? Those few people I've known who were very open about such things revealed that BJs were commonly given by the woman as rewards for doing nice things, or as bribes for doing things she wanted or buying things she wanted... Honestly it's not the biggest problem in the world, but if it happened even occasionally, I would feel so loved and more generally attracted to her, as I would see her as a sexual person, rather than just someone who I try to avoid getting yelled at. I give her flowers for no reason with relative frequency, I do most of the cooking and dishes, I let her buy things that I don't think are 'needs' all the time (money is one area where she's respectful), I tell her I love he and how beautiful she is constantly, but I never get 'rewarded' beyond a hug and an "awww".

 

I know I still need to explain to her somehow how much it would mean to be and what affect it would have on my happiness and satisfaction with the marriage. She even has debilitating fear that I will go back to porn and masturbation as I had done pre-marriage, but that extremely strong-sounding fear is not enough for her to actually DO anything to avoid that result.

 

Apologies for the long long story, but hopefully at least writing it gets it out of my head a bit, and if I get some useful advise out of it, great.

 

TL;DR version:

I give oral just about every time, I've had one blowjob in 5 years thanks to booze, and some oral foreplay 5 times. I give her flowers and do the cooking and dishes, but don't get rewarded. I've never considered it mandatory that she please me, but even in a period of 3-5 weeks where we can't have intercourse, she still refuses to do anything to help me out when I'm in 'need'. I'm timid and she angers VERY easily, so how do I deal with it or broach the topic of how much more positive I would feel about her and the marriage if the occasional 5 minutes on her knees were to happen?

[pteromom]

I suggested there are still things she could do with her breasts, hands, or mouth that could at least help me out, but she says that it shouldn't just be one-way. I meekly responded by saying that I guess I just have to accept it, and repress and ignore any sexual feelings I have for her.

So quit being timid. You could have said here "It's ok - I am fine with it being one-way. I just need to be close to you, and need a release. Do you have any ideas for that?"

 

You gotta communicate. You can tell her what your needs are in a non-confrontational way, so she doesn't get mad. You can ask her for input as to how to make sure you get SOME kind of sex. But you have to communicate.

 

By just going with the flow and not speaking up, you are getting exactly what you ask for - nothing.

[xxoo]

It sounds like this has been on ongoing problem, for all 5 years, yet it becomes unbearable only now when she is pregnant? Did you think pregnancy and kids would help the problem? (pregnancy and kids usually amplify sexual incompatibilities)

 

If she weren't currently pregnant, and if she weren't currently being told to refrain from intercourse, I'd have a different response.

 

But she is pregnant, and she was spotting. That's a big deal for a woman, esp in a first pregnancy. She's nervous, and doesn't want to do anything risky.

 

Expecting oral, when she is too nervous to accept reciprocation, is selfish. When I couldn't enjoy sex, my H didn't want my servicing. Period. We suffered through together.

 

You should have brought up the issue of oral sex long ago, before pregnancy. This really isn't the time. Her hormones are going nuts, she's spotted, she may have some nausea and smell aversion. I love giving my H oral, but I couldn't do it at all when I was pregnant because I would puke

[Bellechica]

It sounds like the issues are prepregnancy, but at present don't discount her hormones.

My H is shy like you and we've had communication and sexual problems, but we are finally addressing them. I find it surprising that you initiate so often since that has been my issue with my H (him not initiating)

Its also odd that you're interested in semi public sex as I think most shy people aren't into that. Hmmm

However, I will say that these sexual issues are , in my opinion, a result of deeper issues in the marriage.

Be open and tell your wife how you feel. Tell her she needs to pleasure you more orally.

Great sex should be about each partner wanting to please the other. I love giving my H BJs and it's one of the ways I'm certain to get him in the mood, but I had to be frank with him and tell him I refuse to be the only sexual aggressor in our relationship.

It hurts and causes resentment when one partner is doing more than his/her share.

Speak with your wife, but also think about how you both are connecting outside of the bedroom as well.

[TimidHubby]

It sounds like this has been on ongoing problem, for all 5 years, yet it becomes unbearable only now when she is pregnant? Did you think pregnancy and kids would help the problem? (pregnancy and kids usually amplify sexual incompatibilities)

No, pregnancy was not (at least by me) considered a fix to anything. As for the timing, see below.

 

Expecting oral, when she is too nervous to accept reciprocation, is selfish. When I couldn't enjoy sex, my H didn't want my servicing. Period. We suffered through together.

 

I agree this is reasonable, to suffer together. And while I probably should again try to tell her my needs, maybe I should add "but you get a free pass during pregnancy" But at least you offered (sounds like). She hasn't in 5 years, and obviously part of the problem is I'm to timid to ask. I always thought that she should be like me and try to seek out ways to please me or show me love (even non-sexually) the way I try to do for her... But I do such things out of love, not out of expectation of anything in return, so I don't really want to say "I do this stuff to show you my love (giving oral, rubbing her back every night to help her fall asleep, getting out of bed to get her stuff she forgot because she's warm and comfy, etc), but I feel you don't show me love in ways that are meaningful to me"

 

You should have brought up the issue of oral sex long ago, before pregnancy. This really isn't the time. Her hormones are going nuts, she's spotted, she may have some nausea and smell aversion. I love giving my H oral, but I couldn't do it at all when I was pregnant because I would puke

 

I WISH it were just something like that, but this has been for a lot longer. If it were a smell issue, now or pre-prego, I'd like to at least know it. Or if it's some other aversion,...I wish she'd tell me, but if I ask her about it, she'll get angry at me. Maybe that's my fault for asking wrong.

The issue has come up a number of times, and between years 1-2 and 3-5, the number of times that there was any oral for me DURING sex (ie a 69) went from maybe 1 to a grand total of 5 or so. But I basically just never feel like my sexual needs or desires are important to her, the way that her pleasure is important to me.

One way I tried to broach the topic is to write a few little scenarios, like 1 paragraph describing, I'm doing blank (playing a game, just out of shower, whatever), and my wife decides to give me a blowjob just cause she loves me, (or some were even just surprise me with wanting sex, not a bj, as I come out of the shower, or whatever) I told her a 3 times over the course of a month that I had created this document describing some of my desires and fantasies and where to find it on my computer. Eventually I asked if she saw it, and she said she had, but basically that was it....the discussion didn't really go much farther than that. I of course failed to press the issue.

But again....my desires are unimportant.

[TimidHubby]

Yes, it is something pre-pregnancy.... a general feeling that my sexual needs and desires are unimportant to her, even though I place such emphasis on pleasing her and showing her love (not sexually as well).

 

That said, I get the point that during pregnancy is a touchy time to discuss such things.

[FryFish]

sounds like you are sexually incompatible... And crying over a bagel that she got out of the freezer being frozen...!!! Sounds like she IS NOT ready to be a ****ing mother... Parents really do NEED to be able to handle frozen bagel situations without crying...

[Bellechica]

Timid? What does your wife háve to say when you discuss these issues with her?

 

And seriously? You rub her back to help her fall asleep? Overkill if you're not feeling rejected. It's like you're begging. Don't do that.

[Stupid Girl]

Parents really do NEED to be able to handle frozen bagel situations without crying...

This made me laugh...but it's true. She doesn't sound very stable. Yelling at you in response to you speaking to her civilly, very little regard for your needs? Why do you want to be with a person like this again?

 

It also certainly doesn't help that you guys didn't have sex until after marriage. How could you really say you had any idea what her sexual appetite would be like? (This is why sex before marriage is GOOD!)

[Bellechica]

I'm sorry this isn't all adding up to me. You don't sound timid. I'm not really understanding your situation.

[Radu]

Wow ... what a match.

 

An abused nutcase who is highly manipulative and is psychologically damaged with a doormat of a husband.

 

This is not about the pregnancy, as xxoo pointed out, pregnancies just put sexual incompatibility into focus.

 

This is about her being so messed up it's not even funny.

Let me make a list for you :

- you are highly passive-agressive. It can be seen from the first few paragraphs ... 'i'm not one to complain, but'

- your wife is not a selfish lover, your wife is a selfish person; it's probably from that teen abuse you mentioned. Basically she doesn't know how to have a mature relationship.

The selfish lover part is a subpart of the fact that she is selfish overall.

- you mentioned 'Even when we have a confrontation, I talk quietly and calmly, she generally yells or talks in a loud agitated manner. If I feel bad, I apologize, if she feels bad, she gets mad that she had to feel bad and yells at me.'

You also go on saying what i perceive to be 'walking on eggshels' behaviour.

This is bad, this is the worst of your problems with this woman because right now you are bringing into this world a baby who did nothing to get mixed up in all of this.

- the new yr's resolutions are scary, she sees the pregnancy as a bandaid for her psychological problems.

In fact, it's just an excuse, a crutch. If you don't insist on this, it will be constantly avoided, put later on ... etc.

- the frozen bagel part is ... wow.

- she obviously has some major hangups when it comes to sex.

You mention she got more loose with alcohol. That's her inner self, she does feel sexual, alcohol lowers or removes inhibitions so there must be some form of ****ed up social programming at the surface that is preventing her from doing this.

- she is asking you if she is selfish because she wants to delude herself into thinking she is fine. If someone else says she is fine, she must be fine.

She is using you to stop herself from going forward with the psychiatrist.

Deep down she knows she is anything but fine, but her selfishness stops her from solving this issue.

- lol at the 'debilitating fear' comment. She acts it like a debilitating fear.

Start going back to porn and masturbation and she will show if it is there or not.

 

Look, your wife has many problems, the BJ's are just a symptom of it.

What's worse is the fact that she draped herself in the motherhood cape to stop you from nagging her about her problems, to dismiss the problems temporarily.

Unfortunatly, if what you said is true, i don't think she wants this baby because she sees it as an expression of your love for one another.

She uses this baby as a temporary crutch, spotting or not.

 

I highly suggest you go to a shrink with your OP printed out and say everything on your mind [just individual counseling].

Ask a professional opinion, talk of her.

Do not tell her you talked about her, tell her you talked about yourself.

I suspect she will run from any shrink she can't manipulate.

You need a neutral opinion, an anchor on a normal reality. You have been with this woman for 5yrs at least and your reality is out of whack, she transferred her behaviours developed post-abuse onto you and she will transfer them on her child as welll.

 

I also think you need to make a backup plan for that child, if you care about it.

This means, talk to a lawyer pronto.

 

And how did you become such a wuss ?

Who was your male rolemodel in life ?

Really think about these 2.

[TimidHubby]

Oh for Christ's sake - both of your hands are broken? I'm not excusing her crap behavior for the last 5 years but right NOW, she's dealing with a difficult pregnancy issue and there you are, simpering about needing "release." She's obviously less than impressed. If I were her, I'd simply be repulsed by it.

 

Sorry, but most women don't really respect "timid" men. It's like being with another woman - and SHE'S been forced to take the dominant role because you WON'T. Timid men are completely unappealing and force women to take the masculine role because they don't have the nuts to step up and do it themselves. I'm reminded of that hapless, sniveling little sad sack cartoon character uttering "yes, dearrrrr.." to his wife in that mealy little voice on the Bugs Bunny cartoons.

 

And you picked yourself a good candidate to breed with - someone who cries when her bagel is frozen. How is this woman going to POSSIBLY handle a colicky baby? A sick baby? A baby whose got a stomach ache and is in pain? Is she going to run to bed and freakin' cry about it???? You really should have gotten this woman some serious therapy - not gotten her pregnant. Don't you people THINK? Good Lord. Your issues are MUCH bigger than a blowjob. Good luck with that.

 

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

 

just_a_poster, I'm realizing you're right about a few things...a) pregnancy is not the time for certain things, and b) I'm certainly not ballsy... But honestly I am just not the type to be harshly confrontational and rude, even if you may think that would be better. She didn't 'have to take' a masculine role....she has anger issues. I do, however, need to find a way to express myself more firmly...it's just really hard to avoid the landmines

 

However, I don't worry much about her ability to deal with children....she's a daycare worker (infants through 5 year olds) and damn good at her job.

[Radu]

Her being a daycare worker [i'm a bit shocked here], might actually work against you, more so than you think.

[TimidHubby]

Wow ... what a match.

 

An abused nutcase who is highly manipulative and is psychologically damaged with a doormat of a husband.

 

This is not about the pregnancy, as xxoo pointed out, pregnancies just put sexual incompatibility into focus.

Now, obviously she has no part in this thread, so you only have what I've said to go on, and I can't claim to be able to objectively judge the unbiasedness of my post...

 

Agreed, the sexual issues are really probably not the central point I should be concerned about. And yeah, I'm a bit of a doormat. The funny thing is, outside of her relationship with me, she seems to feel like the victim in her other relationships and always feels like she needs to stand up for herself more.

 

This is about her being so messed up it's not even funny.

Let me make a list for you :

- you are highly passive-agressive. It can be seen from the first few paragraphs ... 'i'm not one to complain, but'

Yeah, that's possible, I'm open to criticism. That said, the fact that I've posted my complaints anonymously in a forum doesn't mean that I'd say the same things IRL...that's kind of the point of a forum...being able to speak without as much of a filter.

- your wife is not a selfish lover, your wife is a selfish person; it's probably from that teen abuse you mentioned. Basically she doesn't know how to have a mature relationship.

The selfish lover part is a subpart of the fact that she is selfish overall.

I'd agree...I've long thought she was somewhat selfish,...at least in our relationship, perhaps not with anyone else. She's not over the deep end though, I don't think....but maybe my perception or normal has been warped

- you mentioned 'Even when we have a confrontation, I talk quietly and calmly, she generally yells or talks in a loud agitated manner. If I feel bad, I apologize, if she feels bad, she gets mad that she had to feel bad and yells at me.'

You also go on saying what i perceive to be 'walking on eggshels' behaviour.

This is bad, this is the worst of your problems with this woman because right now you are bringing into this world a baby who did nothing to get mixed up in all of this.

Yeah, I'm afraid of her, basically. Anything I say might result in yelling.

- the new yr's resolutions are scary, she sees the pregnancy as a bandaid for her psychological problems.

In fact, it's just an excuse, a crutch. If you don't insist on this, it will be constantly avoided, put later on ... etc.

Yeah, honestly this was quite a disappointment...she didn't mention it either, just decided on her own. I guess with a baby inside her she's "happier" about her life? but I really don't think any of her issues have been dealt with...

- lol at the 'debilitating fear' comment. She acts it like a debilitating fear.

Start going back to porn and masturbation and she will show if it is there or not.

She'd leave me if she found out. ....In years past at my least happy, I've considered this as a tactic to end things. I really don't want it to end though.

I highly suggest you go to a shrink with your OP printed out and say everything on your mind [just individual counseling].

Ask a professional opinion, talk of her.

Do not tell her you talked about her, tell her you talked about yourself.

You may be right...man I wish such things were a helluva lot less expensive though. I'm thinking that it might even impart a feeling of the gravity of the situation, telling her that (especially if she is really deciding not to go) that I will go to a therapist. Of course therapy is supposed to be about you, not what you dislike about your partner....right?

You need a neutral opinion, an anchor on a normal reality. You have been with this woman for 5yrs at least and your reality is out of whack, she transferred her behaviours developed post-abuse onto you.

Yeah, I could see this....I probably have accepted a warped reality to some degree. This is where therapy for me could possibly start.

I also think you need to make a backup plan for that child, if you care about it.

This means, talk to a lawyer pronto.

I'm not interested in going down this road yet... That said, if it makes you feel better, our home is in my name only (though the mortgage is in both).

And how did you become such a wuss ?

Who was your male rolemodel in life ?

lol...I can understand your frustration at my timidity.

My dad was fairly timid too, probably. I just saw it as being loving, accepting, understanding, forgiving, and slow to anger though.

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to consider my issues and provide a dose of outside reality

Edited May 24, 2012 by TimidHubby
typos

[Jayrerickson]

I think you need to have a clear mind. It is differently easier said then done. Go to Ways To Deal With Anger and see if any of the tips help. You will have a better idea on what your going to do. You have all those thoughts that are blocking your mind. Clear it up and you will know what to do.

[Quiet Storm]

The history of abuse and you "walking on eggshells" can be symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

See this and see if any of it resonates:

 

http://www.bpdcentral.com/quiz/

Borderline Personality Disorder | Psych Central

 

Even if she doesn't have the disorder, she may have some traits of it and the advice on those sites can be helpful.

 

I am like your wife in the fact that I don't like to initiate. I am very free and open in the bedroom, but I like my husband to initiate. Why? In my case, part of it is because his interest in me is what makes me really want him. We have busy lives with kids, and it's like my desire goes into dormant mode with working, kids, house, activities, etc. When he looks at me that way, gives me a butt squeeze and rubs up on me, it reactivates my desire and makes me want him. When I do initiate, it doesn't feel natural. When he initiates, it feels natural to me.

[TimidHubby]

The history of abuse and you "walking on eggshells" can be symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

See this and see if any of it resonates:

 

http://www.bpdcentral.com/quiz/

Borderline Personality Disorder | Psych Central

 

Even if she doesn't have the disorder, she may have some traits of it and the advice on those sites can be helpful.

 

That is interesting. This (and in the past other 'disorders') have resonated with my perception of her issues...as 'high-functioning' as she may generally be. But if she decides she won't seek therapy, I'll have to 'walk on eggshells' to even suggest that 'hey, a lot of this sounds like you'.

 

However, this is still useful. Using external unbiased resources could help me convince her that therapy would still be useful, if I can get her to agree that she exhibits those traits...which is the tough part, probably.

[housebunny]

I skimmed through, but I one word comes to mind and that is "Enabler"

 

You said that you are pretty much a doormat, how do you expect change if this is your mindset and role?

 

You need to stand up for yourself.

 

As a woman, her not doing anything for you is ridiculous! She disrespects you and you let it happen. By disrespect, I mean not pleasing you as well.

 

I was thinking that she may of had some body image issues when you mentioned that she was trying to lose weight, but as a woman who has been there, she should still wanted to please you and get over herself for however long the act lasts to make you happy, because she wants that for you.

 

It just sounds like she is a selfish person, as was stated. That DOESN'T mean that you have to put up with it.

 

Stand up for yourself, voice your opinions, don't allow her to raise her voice to you and belittle you in that way, and make some changes.

[Radu]

 

She'd leave me if she found out. ....In years past at my least happy, I've considered this as a tactic to end things. I really don't want it to end though.

 

I'm not interested in going down this road yet... That said, if it makes you feel better, our home is in my name only (though the mortgage is in both).

 

lol...I can understand your frustration at my timidity.

My dad was fairly timid too, probably. I just saw it as being loving, accepting, understanding, forgiving, and slow to anger though.

 

 

If she used threats of leaving you as a way to reel you in, that shows even further how manipulative she is.

She wants to be in control, to feel completely in control.

 

It's not a question of going down that road.

Talking to a shrink, recording her outbursts, talking to a lawyer means that you are prepared for whatever may come.

As a future father, you have a duty to be there for your child.

Someone mentioned BPD, i also thought it resembled BPD but i thought it would be better to talk to a shrink.

If it is BPD then :

- she is either high functioning or low functioning. High functioning are very shrewd and hard to detect by authorities and natural master manipulators. They have a public face on, and you are the one to see the ugly private face.

Low functioning are the ones who can't control themselves in public.

- she will refuse treatment from any shrink who sees through her, she will accept any shrink she can manipulate.

Many shrinks won't even say out that they see problems because they know that BPD are notorious for running from them.

- she will be absolutely terrified about the ideea of her private face that you see shining out in the public and she will do anything to stop you from doing this. A poster's wife on these forums tried to have him killed by police. I don't think she was BPD, but she also had problems.

- BPD's [wives] try to take the kids, and will do parental alienation, they don't care about anything except preserving power over you [hence the threats]

 

Bottom line, you need to take care of this, no ... you have a duty to take care of this.

You sound somewhat of an enabler but you are a better parent than her, so you need to make sure that your kid has the chance to see a normal person's life.

It's important for them.

 

You don't think this is serious ?

 

Your wife is a daycare worker ... who do you think the judge will give the kid in the case of a divorce.

To win this for your kid you need to prepare ahead, and she must not know of this.

Or else, your kid might end up like her.

 

PS: I've tried to scare you for your own good, the ppl here won't coddle you.

[TimidHubby]

Again, thanks for all your thoughtful replies. I think they've helped me with strategy.

 

Here are some things I recall my wife saying at various points, some very recent.

 

-"I don't know why they don't just come talk to me if they have a problem with me...I won't know if they don't tell me...they used to tell me, I don't get why they don't anymore [at which point I could tell her exactly why, lol, but never would]. I may get upset at the time, but I'm the type to really internalize what they've said and try to fix it"

I just have to 'man up' and deal with the part I hate, getting yelled at for telling her something about herself she doesn't want to hear, and hope that it improves things down the line. Or rather, I should stop any conversation where she's escalating while I'm calm until she can talk calmly (though that's a risky proposition as well).

 

-"You have to tell me no sometimes, if you give me everything I want I'll end up a spoiled [princess/bitch, not sure which it was, this was prob 5 years ago]"

Oops...

 

I think my strategy perhaps should be to show her love....or rather since I've long been doing it already but it just goes somewhat unnoticed sometimes, I've just begun saying...hey honey, I've got dinner ready for you (when she gets home later than me), 'cause I love you!", or "hey honey, I put away your leftovers for you, 'cause I love you!" (she sometimes doesn't eat cause of nausea, and she feels bad about it)....

Basically making it clear and obvious all the things I do for her out of love.

In tandem with that, the next time she starts blowing up, I'll make it clear that that won't be acceptable anymore. She often acts like a child when angry (temper-tantrums, run to bed, hide in locked bathroom), so maybe I'll have to treat her like one at those times instead of being soft and unsderstanding, and hope that the first part of the strategy ensures she continues to feel loved despite the times where I have to take a harder-hearted approach.

 

I'll probably need to talk to her ahead of time so that this approach isn't a surprise or shock (which could worsen things), and let her know that certain behaviors have been affecting me and our marriage greatly, and that if those behaviors should arise, I will be walking away from the situation until she can calm herself....something like that.

 

She has already noticed the new trend of 'cause I love you', and doesn't seem put off by it, though wondered why. I said that it's just cause I want to show her lover, and Imma keep doing it .

 

I think that perhaps at some future time after this has gone for a little while, I should be able to then talk to her and just tell her, 'hey honey, you love me and want to show me love, I know, so here are some things by which I would feel really really loved'... bringing it back full circle to areas like sexual selfishness, but from a more positive perspective. The only risk here is if she decides she doesn't want to do many of the things that I feel would show love (particularly if I can't get her to share honest reasons why), and then just builds up that much more guilt or self-hatred due to knowing that she's not making me feel loved...her guilt usually results in anger at me :-P

 

You can see the way my mind works....always worried about what will anger her . Of course again, its not like shes difficult to be around all the time, but clearly it's enough that I've come here to talk about it with strangers ;-)

[zengirl]

It sounds like this has been on ongoing problem, for all 5 years, yet it becomes unbearable only now when she is pregnant? Did you think pregnancy and kids would help the problem? (pregnancy and kids usually amplify sexual incompatibilities)

 

If she weren't currently pregnant, and if she weren't currently being told to refrain from intercourse, I'd have a different response.

 

But she is pregnant, and she was spotting. That's a big deal for a woman, esp in a first pregnancy. She's nervous, and doesn't want to do anything risky.

 

Expecting oral, when she is too nervous to accept reciprocation, is selfish. When I couldn't enjoy sex, my H didn't want my servicing. Period. We suffered through together.

 

You should have brought up the issue of oral sex long ago, before pregnancy. This really isn't the time. Her hormones are going nuts, she's spotted, she may have some nausea and smell aversion. I love giving my H oral, but I couldn't do it at all when I was pregnant because I would puke

 

Basically, this. This is no time to bring all of that up, unfortunately. You've waited too long, and you'll have to wait longer, really, if you want any hope of resolving it, remaining married, and not being a dick.

 

I think it's hard to know what to expect, sexually in a marriage, when pre-marriage you weren't having sex, so comparisons with her attitudes pre and post marriage don't really work. It sounds like you do have a reasonable sex life --- not the best, but it's active, and she's not turning you down all the time --- but you've been afraid for YEARS to ask for what you want and you've been building up resentment for YEARS because you haven't asked and she hasn't just done it.

 

Sounds like she wants a man who initiates sex, shows her how turned on by her he is, and she then responds to such actions favorably. However, you want HER to initiate, even though that's not the dynamic you've had all throughout your marriage. That isn't working, but I wouldn't say it's hers or your "fault." It's an incompatibility, because you both don't want to be the sexual aggressor, that was hard to spot because of the way your marriage evolved and has never been properly discussed after marrying. Frankly, I'd not really want to be the sexual aggressor either --- I'm happy to let Hubby know he's hot stuff, but he almost always initiates sex. I pretty much never say no, so that's no problem for us. But typically both parties can't wish the other one was the aggressor, obviously, and I don't think there are many Rs where there isn't a clear typical aggressor (though I do initiate sex sometimes, and many partnerships have TWO aggressors, etc, or one aggressor and one 'sometimes' aggressor).

 

Now, when she's pregnant and there's been a scare, is NOT the time to bring it up. It really isn't. That's the sad fact.

[2sunny]

Again, thanks for all your thoughtful replies. I think they've helped me with strategy.

 

Here are some things I recall my wife saying at various points, some very recent.

 

-"I don't know why they don't just come talk to me if they have a problem with me...I won't know if they don't tell me...they used to tell me, I don't get why they don't anymore [at which point I could tell her exactly why, lol, but never would]. I may get upset at the time, but I'm the type to really internalize what they've said and try to fix it"

I just have to 'man up' and deal with the part I hate, getting yelled at for telling her something about herself she doesn't want to hear, and hope that it improves things down the line. Or rather, I should stop any conversation where she's escalating while I'm calm until she can talk calmly (though that's a risky proposition as well).

 

-"You have to tell me no sometimes, if you give me everything I want I'll end up a spoiled [princess/bitch, not sure which it was, this was prob 5 years ago]"

Oops...

 

I think my strategy perhaps should be to show her love....or rather since I've long been doing it already but it just goes somewhat unnoticed sometimes, I've just begun saying...hey honey, I've got dinner ready for you (when she gets home later than me), 'cause I love you!", or "hey honey, I put away your leftovers for you, 'cause I love you!" (she sometimes doesn't eat cause of nausea, and she feels bad about it)....

Basically making it clear and obvious all the things I do for her out of love.

In tandem with that, the next time she starts blowing up, I'll make it clear that that won't be acceptable anymore. She often acts like a child when angry (temper-tantrums, run to bed, hide in locked bathroom), so maybe I'll have to treat her like one at those times instead of being soft and unsderstanding, and hope that the first part of the strategy ensures she continues to feel loved despite the times where I have to take a harder-hearted approach.

 

I'll probably need to talk to her ahead of time so that this approach isn't a surprise or shock (which could worsen things), and let her know that certain behaviors have been affecting me and our marriage greatly, and that if those behaviors should arise, I will be walking away from the situation until she can calm herself....something like that.

 

She has already noticed the new trend of 'cause I love you', and doesn't seem put off by it, though wondered why. I said that it's just cause I want to show her lover, and Imma keep doing it .

 

I think that perhaps at some future time after this has gone for a little while, I should be able to then talk to her and just tell her, 'hey honey, you love me and want to show me love, I know, so here are some things by which I would feel really really loved'... bringing it back full circle to areas like sexual selfishness, but from a more positive perspective. The only risk here is if she decides she doesn't want to do many of the things that I feel would show love (particularly if I can't get her to share honest reasons why), and then just builds up that much more guilt or self-hatred due to knowing that she's not making me feel loved...her guilt usually results in anger at me :-P

 

You can see the way my mind works....always worried about what will anger her . Of course again, its not like shes difficult to be around all the time, but clearly it's enough that I've come here to talk about it with strangers ;-)

 

With holding your truth is still lying to her. How do you expect her to know when you haven't been totally honest with her?

 

Write her a list of what you need. Write ten things. Tell her she needs to choose 5 of them that she's willing to do for you.

 

Love doesn't look balanced when one person does most of the giving and the other just takes.

 

We train people how to treat us. She may need new training in order to consider your feelings. You need to let YOUR FEELINGS known each day so she can choose to participate or not. If she chooses no - you're best getting to the counselor ASAP.

 

Start speaking up! Have a voice - speak your truth! Tell her you want her to show you the love.

[Joaquin]

The best girlfriends ive had gave great blow jobs.

 

The ones that made it into some kind of big deal were generally messed up.

 

I'm thinking that a girls willingness to give a good hummer is actually a window to her soul.

[Bellechica]

Timid, I do find her reactions to confrontation very odd. A grown woman locking herself in a bathroom? She sounds very childish....

[Joaquin]

Let's call a spade a spade.

 

She isn't making the guy happy. He's miserable. She is miserable.

 

Hes sexually totally frustrated because she's a selfish cow who won't give the guy one thing he wants, a good blow job now and again. If she loved him she would do it, because that's what a girl that loves you does. She does whatever the hell she can to make her guy happy.

 

He does all he can because he loves her. I bet he'd do whatever stuff she wanted in bed in a heartbeat. He'd probably let her use a strap on if she said she would like it.

 

She didn't give him jack before marriage. She ain't doing it after marriage. He knew the score before hand. He accepted it and married her anyway.

 

They both settled. Now they are both miserable.